Polygamy according to the Quran (Excerpt from QRT)
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Salam Edip,
The Tanakh, and the Gospels in the original languages have not been tampered with or changed.
The Dead Sea Scrolls is good evidence of this.However, I have found that pointing this out does little to change the minds of those who believe that they have changed.
It seems preposterous to me that the Quran would
first instruct us to follow that which was revealed before us
and then tell us that if we do it has been altered and would be a misguidance.I do not expect a debate on this issue to be a productive one, I am merely stating my view.
Salam,
ArnabI have no clue either why this persistence. Its as if they know the bible better than the Koran does or as if the Bible at the time of Muhammad in Arabia was any different than the Bible today. Edip also quotes Koranic verse in the absence of others.
Say "O People of the Book! Ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord, If only they had stood fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that was sent to them from their Lord, they would have enjoyed happiness from every side. There is from among them a party on the right course But many of them follow a course that is evil. (5,68-69)
Let the People of the Gospel judge by what God hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what God hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel. (5,47)
But why do they come to thee for decision, when they have (their own) Law before them?- Therein is the (plain) command of God; yet even after that, they would turn away. For they are not (really) people of faith. (Surah 5, Maida, verse 43)
5.44. It was We who revealed the law (to Moses) therein was guidance and light. By its standard have been judged the Jews, by the prophets who bowed (as in Islam) to God's will, by the rabbis and the doctors of law for to them was entrusted the protection of God's book, and they were witnesses thereto therefore fear not men, but fear me, and sell not my signs for a miserable price. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what God hath revealed, they are (no better than) Unbelievers.
5.45. We ordained therein for them "Life for life, eye for eye, nose or nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal." But if any one remits the retaliation by way of charity, it is an act of atonement for himself. And if any fail to judge by (the light of) what God hath revealed, they are (No better than) wrong-doers.
5.46. And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him We sent him the Gospel therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him a guidance and an admonition to those who fear God.
To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety so judge between them by what God hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If God had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to God; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute; Surah 5 Verse 48
All food was lawful to the Children of Israel, except what Israel made unlawful for itself, before the Law (of Moses) was revealed. Say,"Bring ye the Law and study it, if ye be men of truth." (Surah 3, Al-i-'Imran, verse 93)
And if thou (Muhammad) art in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto thee, then question those who read the Scripture (that) was before thee... (Surah 10, Jonah, verse 94)
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Salam Edip,
The Tanakh, and the Gospels in the original languages have not been tampered with or changed.
The Dead Sea Scrolls is good evidence of this.However, I have found that pointing this out does little to change the minds of those who believe that they have changed.
It seems preposterous to me that the Quran would
first instruct us to follow that which was revealed before us
and then tell us that if we do it has been altered and would be a misguidance.I do not expect a debate on this issue to be a productive one, I am merely stating my view.
Salam,
ArnabYour claim about the Bible and its distortions however contradicts the koran. The koran says the opposite. Maybe how we humans understand scriptures is not how the Koran understands it. However the Koran came to confirm the scriptures and not to claim its been distorted or corrupted as many Koranist continue to claim never providing a shred of evidence for their claim form the koran and never giving a valid explanation as to why the koran says the exact opposite of that claim. They will bring about verses from the Bible about the prophets and say this has to be a lie as if the author of the Koran does not know about them. But then they never answer why the koran itslef refutes the claim they propagate. This is part of the simplistic nature many read the Koran often trying to deflect problematic or seemingly contradictory nature of their thought. Maybe what the koran sees in the scriptures are different from how we see it. Whoevers says the Bible has been tampered with or corrupted needs first to answer to the koran. No book on Earth defends the Bible like the koran and yet the supposed followers of the Koran who go by the names "Muslims" are its biggest attackers. How odd!
Peace
I agree with you, simply because the Quran agrees with you.
I would like to add that God knowledge of what happens in his Kingdom is behind our imagination; God, when revealing the Quran to Prophet Mohamed (PBUH), had knowledge of what happened in the past to the Torah and the Gospel; so, if all the verses that Edip mentioned regarding the Jews who changed God words were to mean they tampered the book, I think God would have said to prophet Mohamed to advice us (by the Quran and not Hadith) to not Believe in the Torah! In the contrary, God ordered the Prophet to read it and believe in it as the Truth from his Lord. Moreover, God Knowledge, when he was revealing the Quran, were behind that time, God knew what will happened in the future, even until the day we will enter Heaven or Hellfire; so, if God knew that the Original Bible and the Torah would be tampered with, he would have warned us to disbelieve them (in the Quran) instead of telling us to believe in them. The only effective way to judge the Torah and the Gospel is to know it?s original language (Aramaic, Hebrew.), and then judge the Original and not the ones that being translated.Peace
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Peace Edip, all.
According to Lane, "Ankaha" vb (IV) as in Q2827 means "marry off", (He married the woman; i.e give her in marriage). applying the same principal in Q43, it tells us to marry off the orphan under our care once they are matured/independent, hence enable us to surrender back what is rightfully belongs to the orphan, i.e the inheritance. Q42-6 theme is all about, guardian > orphan > matured > marry off > give back their property/inheritance.
Hence, Q42-6 is not about polygamy.
BTW, my 2 cents on Q2221 to disprove the polygamy
Transliteration
Wala tankihoo almushrikati hatta yu/minna walaamatun mu/minatun khayrun min mushrikatin walaw aAAjabatkum wala tunkihoo almushrikeena hatta yu/minoo walaAAabdun mu/minun khayrun min mushrikin walaw aAAjabakum ola-ika yadAAoona ila alnnari waAllahu yadAAoo ila aljannati waalmaghfirati bi-ithnihi wayubayyinu ayatihi lilnnasi laAAallahum yatathakkaroonaalmushrikati here means those who have partner, i.e married
yu/minna in the context of marriage (since this is subject being address) means LOYALHence, man should marry single woman and vice versa.
Salam
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Salaam phil, all
According to Lane, "Ankaha " vb (IV) as in Q2827 means "marry off",
I agree with this. However, there's another verb "nakaha " which means to marry. Both verbs have the same imperative Ankihu , the one used in his verse (vocalisation not withstanding). So, based on the verb, we cannot decide which one is being used.
So, let's go to the logic Why marrying off the orphans after they were given their property when they proved to be mature? They can marry themselves like any other adult, and are no more considered "orphans/vulnerable". How would "marrying them off" alleviate injustice?
Secondly, what's the meaning of "if you fear not being just, then only one"?
Wala tankihoo almushrikati hatta yu/minna walaamatun mu/minatun khayrun min mushrikatin walaw aAAjabatkum wala tunkihoo almushrikeena hatta yu/minoo walaAAabdun mu/minun khayrun min mushrikin walaw aAAjabakum ola-ika yadAAoona ila alnnari waAllahu yadAAoo ila aljannati waalmaghfirati bi-ithnihi wayubayyinu ayatihi lilnnasi laAAallahum yatathakkaroona
This verse has both verbs (marry and marry off respectively, in bold). Notice that the (marry off) in Arabic is followed by the masculine, not the feminine. Actually it does not mean (marry off) as in English, but (marry to marry a woman to a man)
And I expect when you made (mushrik means married) in this verse, then mu'min should be (single). If they become loyal, how can you marry them? Loyal to their partners, I suppose. If it is not to the patner, why is it advisable to marry them?
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Salaam all
I was thinking lately of the word translated as "orphans". I think it should be "fatherless children" whether the child lost the father to death or because it was born ouside wedlock. The latter I believe are very vulnerable, and their vulnerability is continuous, no way out without the mother getting married again and thus their return to the society is more likely. They are the ones shunt and isolated by the society (1072) yadu33u means push, and whose mothers can hardly get married to offer them a home and a name. A look at our Arabic societies (and maybe Muslim societies in general), although that "orphans" in general are in a dire condition, but also poor children in poor families, the "illegitmate" ones are ten folds more miserable, and usually their misery is applied by the society (laws) and people together.
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I like it for the humanistic approach but am unable to check if its "grammatically" possible - not that i care for that too much - but at least i know that you have the tools to check this up ;D
something that always "killed" me, was the idea of forcing unmarried women to abort in case of pregnancy - if they are not just killed for the "honour" of the family. erasing a minor "sin" through murder or abortion... )
sorry offtopic but not really - it 's all related
salaam
lk -
I like it for the humanistic approach but am unable to check if its "grammatically" possible - not that i care for that too much - but at least i know that you have the tools to check this up ;D
something that always "killed" me, was the idea of forcing unmarried women to abort in case of pregnancy - if they are not just killed for the "honour" of the family. erasing a minor "sin" through murder or abortion... )
sorry offtopic but not really - it 's all related
salaam
lkSalaam Elke
Don't worry, it has nothing to do with grammar. Moreover, I do not know of a word for "illigitmate" children apart from phrases explaining them, and which I do not expect God to use them, such as a "child of fornication". The dicytonaries say about "yateem" a child who lost the father (allows for more meanings for "los", and not a child whose father is dead (more specific).And no, you are not off topic. Killing their babies shows that the woman is protecting herself, but even more her child from the dim future awaiting him.
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Peace Samia, all
Salaam phil, all
I agree with this. However, there's another verb "nakaha " which means to marry. Both verbs have the same imperative Ankihu , the one used in his verse (vocalisation not withstanding). So, based on the verb, we cannot decide which one is being used.
That depends very much on the context of the verse. Looking at the subject addressed in the verse, i.e Q42-3, the focus here deals with the issue of orphan. That's all. There's nowhere to be found in the ayats dealing with the orphan's mother or whoever else for that matter. It's noteworthy to see how Q42 and Q43 is interconnected with the usage of diphtong "wa" at the beginning of Q43. In other word, the subject in Q43 is the same subject addressed in Q42.
Now, we have to ask our self, does it make sense that God command us to marry the orphans under our own care? Or God command us to marry off the orphans?
So, let's go to the logic Why marrying off the orphans after they were given their property when they proved to be mature? They can marry themselves like any other adult, and are no more considered "orphans/vulnerable". How would "marrying them off" alleviate injustice?
I beg to differ. We marry off the orphans, so that we can surrender back their inheritance. And off course the orphans have their right to get married on their own and subsequently claim back their properties. In other word, if the orphan married on their own, then there's no issue. The issue here is the caretaker having fear for not able to be just whilst holding the inheritance of the orphans. This concern is illustrated in Q42 and further emphasized at the beginning of Q43.
Secondly, what's the meaning of "if you fear not being just, then only one"?
In any way we arrive at the meaning of this ayat, I think it's inconclusive to take it as the justification for polygamy. Reason being is simple the context of the verse is about the orphans. Unless you want to define the polygamy is allowed when you marry the orphans under your own care. >D
This verse has both verbs (marry and marry off respectively, in bold). Notice that the (marry off) in Arabic is followed by the masculine, not the feminine. Actually it does not mean (marry off) as in English, but (marry to marry a woman to a man)
Noted.
Either way, the focus/subject matter is still the orphans.
And I expect when you made (mushrik means married) in this verse, then mu'min should be (single). If they become loyal, how can you marry them? Loyal to their partners, I suppose. If it is not to the patner, why is it advisable to marry them?
Shiin-Ra-Kaf means having partner, and here in this verse, the context of the ayat deals with people, NOT God. Again applying the same logic, mu'min here means loyal. And being loyal means that you do not set up partner. Consequently, marry those who do not set up partner. Does it make sense?
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004003 Polygamy is allowed only to provide psychological, social and economic support for widows with orphans (See 4127). Muhammad's practice of polygamy must have been in accordance with the condition to serve an important social service.
004127 This verse has been commonly mistranslated to justify marrying young orphan girls rather than marrying their widow mothers. The mistranslation is so obvious, that it is curious how those who had knowledge of Arabic did not notice it. Unfortunately, this mistranslation helped the justification of marrying girls at a very young age. Though the Quran permits polygamy to men (43), it strictly discourages its actual practice by requiring certain significant preconditions men may marry more than one wife only if the later ones are widows with children, and they should treat each wife equally and fairly (See 419-20; 127-129.)
Edip, so does this mean that the story of Muhammad marrying Aisha is false? It is widely believed by Muslims that she was his last wife, a rather young woman and never married before.
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Edip Yuksel, Arnold Yasin or others, I'd appreciate an answer to the question about Aisha. Thank you.
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Quote from Edip Yuksel on May 11, 2008, 063422 AM
004003 Polygamy is allowed only to provide psychological, social and economic support for widows with orphans (See 4127). Muhammad's practice of polygamy must have been in accordance with the condition to serve an important social service.
004127 This verse has been commonly mistranslated to justify marrying young orphan girls rather than marrying their widow mothers. The mistranslation is so obvious, that it is curious how those who had knowledge of Arabic did not notice it. Unfortunately, this mistranslation helped the justification of marrying girls at a very young age. Though the Quran permits polygamy to men (43), it strictly discourages its actual practice by requiring certain significant preconditions men may marry more than one wife only if the later ones are widows with children, and they should treat each wife equally and fairly (See 419-20; 127-129.)
Edip Yuksel, Arnold Yasin or others, I'd appreciate an answer to the question about Aisha. Thank you.
The answer to your question is below in context...
3332-37 O wives of the Prophet! You are not like any other women. If you keep your duty, then be not soft in speech, lest he in whose heart is a disease should be moved with desire, but speak in an honorable manner. And stay in your houses, and do not display yourselves like that of the times of ignorance, and perform As-Sal?t, and give Zak?t and obey All?h and His Messenger. All?h wishes only to remove Ar?Rijs (evil deeds and sins) from you, O members of the family, and to purify you with a thorough purification. And remember, that which is recited in your houses of the Verses of All?h and Al?Hikmah. Verily, All?h is Ever Most Courteous, Well?Acquainted with all things. Verily, the Muslims men and women, the believers men and women, the men and the women who are obedient, the men and women who are truthful, the men and the women who are patient, the men and the women who are humble, the men and the women who give Sadaq?t, the men and the women who observe Saum (fast), the men and the women who guard their chastity and the men and the women who remember All?h much with their hearts and tongues. All?h has prepared for them forgiveness and a great reward. It is not for a believer, man or woman, when All?h and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any option in their decision. And whoever disobeys All?h and His Messenger, he has indeed strayed in to a plain error. And when you said to him on whom All?h has bestowed Grace and you have done favour "Keep your wife to yourself, and fear All?h." But you did hide in yourself that which All?h will make manifest, you did fear the people whereas All?h had a better right that you should fear Him. So when Zaid had accomplished his desire from her, We gave her to you in marriage, so that there may be no difficulty to the believers in respect of the wives of their adopted sons when the latter have no desire to keep them. And All?h's Command must be fulfilled.
The woman above was not a widow and Qur?an does not forbid a man from having more than one wife if all parties are OK with it.
The issue is only frowned upon in ?modern? society which many are not right in the head morally hypocritical cheating unfaithful with over 50% divorce.
Peace
Mirupafshim D
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Thank you for taking the time to reply, Nun de Plume.
MirupafshimMirupafshim...
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The answer to your question is below in context...
3332-37 O wives of the Prophet! You are not like any other women. If you keep your duty, then be not soft in speech, lest he in whose heart is a disease should be moved with desire, but speak in an honorable manner. And stay in your houses, and do not display yourselves like that of the times of ignorance, and perform As-Sal?t, and give Zak?t and obey All?h and His Messenger. All?h wishes only to remove Ar?Rijs (evil deeds and sins) from you, O members of the family, and to purify you with a thorough purification. And remember, that which is recited in your houses of the Verses of All?h and Al?Hikmah. Verily, All?h is Ever Most Courteous, Well?Acquainted with all things. Verily, the Muslims men and women, the believers men and women, the men and the women who are obedient, the men and women who are truthful, the men and the women who are patient, the men and the women who are humble, the men and the women who give Sadaq?t, the men and the women who observe Saum (fast), the men and the women who guard their chastity and the men and the women who remember All?h much with their hearts and tongues. All?h has prepared for them forgiveness and a great reward. It is not for a believer, man or woman, when All?h and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any option in their decision. And whoever disobeys All?h and His Messenger, he has indeed strayed in to a plain error. And when you said to him on whom All?h has bestowed Grace and you have done favour "Keep your wife to yourself, and fear All?h." But you did hide in yourself that which All?h will make manifest, you did fear the people whereas All?h had a better right that you should fear Him. So when Zaid had accomplished his desire from her, We gave her to you in marriage, so that there may be no difficulty to the believers in respect of the wives of their adopted sons when the latter have no desire to keep them. And All?h's Command must be fulfilled.
The woman above was not a widow and Qur?an does not forbid a man from having more than one wife if all parties are OK with it.
The issue is only frowned upon in ?modern? society which many are not right in the head morally hypocritical cheating unfaithful with over 50% divorce.
Peace
Mirupafshim
Salaam, num de plume
I do not know whether the aya you quote supports what you say regarding more than one wife. I can see that the Prophet could, but from where do you get that other men are allowed to? I do not see it from that aya.
On theother hand in the ayas regarding inheritance there is no mention whatsoever of the inheritance to more than one wife of the deceased.
I have nothing against duly protected and legislated poligamy depending on social needs, but I do not see poligamy endorsed in this aya except in the case of the Prophet which as is clearly stated is an exceptional case. Am I missing something?
I see that one is authorized to marry the divorced wife of one adoptive son, but so what?
Salaam
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Salaam, num de plume
I do not know whether the aya you quote supports what you say regarding more than one wife. I can see that the Prophet could, but from where do you get that other men are allowed to? I do not see it from that aya.
On theother hand in the ayas regarding inheritance there is no mention whatsoever of the inheritance to more than one wife of the deceased.
I have nothing against duly protected and legislated poligamy depending on social needs, but I do not see poligamy endorsed in this aya except in the case of the Prophet which as is clearly stated is an exceptional case. Am I missing something?
I see that one is authorized to marry the divorced wife of one adoptive son, but so what?
Salaam
Salaam huruf,
423?and that you combine between the two sisters, except what had preceded?
4129 ?and you will never be able that you be equitable between the women?
Therefore, it?s not forbidden although comes with advice to proceed with caution -- mansions, designer gowns, luxury cars and a credit card for shopping ?til they drop. ;D
http//www.jewelryexpert.com/ARTICLES/Fancy-Color-Diamonds.htm
http//thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumb_86/11591073799ev0SM.jpg
Then there are all the immaterial things as well and the list continues?
peace
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The answer to your question is below in context...
3332-37 O wives of the Prophet! You are not like any other women. If you keep your duty, then be not soft in speech, lest he in whose heart is a disease should be moved with desire, but speak in an honorable manner. And stay in your houses, and do not display yourselves like that of the times of ignorance, and perform As-Sal?t, and give Zak?t and obey All?h and His Messenger. All?h wishes only to remove Ar?Rijs (evil deeds and sins) from you, O members of the family, and to purify you with a thorough purification. And remember, that which is recited in your houses of the Verses of All?h and Al?Hikmah. Verily, All?h is Ever Most Courteous, Well?Acquainted with all things. Verily, the Muslims men and women, the believers men and women, the men and the women who are obedient, the men and women who are truthful, the men and the women who are patient, the men and the women who are humble, the men and the women who give Sadaq?t, the men and the women who observe Saum (fast), the men and the women who guard their chastity and the men and the women who remember All?h much with their hearts and tongues. All?h has prepared for them forgiveness and a great reward. It is not for a believer, man or woman, when All?h and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any option in their decision. And whoever disobeys All?h and His Messenger, he has indeed strayed in to a plain error. And when you said to him on whom All?h has bestowed Grace and you have done favour "Keep your wife to yourself, and fear All?h." But you did hide in yourself that which All?h will make manifest, you did fear the people whereas All?h had a better right that you should fear Him. So when Zaid had accomplished his desire from her, We gave her to you in marriage, so that there may be no difficulty to the believers in respect of the wives of their adopted sons when the latter have no desire to keep them. And All?h's Command must be fulfilled.
The woman above was not a widow and Qur?an does not forbid a man from having more than one wife if all parties are OK with it.
The issue is only frowned upon in ?modern? society which many are not right in the head morally hypocritical cheating unfaithful with over 50% divorce.
Peace
Mirupafshim D
Peace.
This is a good citation. I never really analyzed this Scripture until now...
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4129 ?and you will never be able that you be equitable between the women?
Therefore, it?s not forbidden although comes with advice to proceed with caution -- mansions, designer gowns, luxury cars and a credit card for shopping ?til they drop. ;D
http//www.jewelryexpert.com/ARTICLES/Fancy-Color-Diamonds.htm
http//thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumb_86/11591073799ev0SM.jpg
Then there are all the immaterial things as well and the list continues?
peace
Nun, that should be sufficient to compensate for the fact that a man will never be equitable between the women.
Now about the prophet being an exceptional case, this is the point critics of Islam always bring up, saying that if he was such a holy and righteous man, why didn?t he stick to marrying widows and older women? Why did he go and marry a young virgin girl? Can anyone give a good reason as to why he would?ve married the much younger Aisha at his age?
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Nun, that should be sufficient to compensate for the fact that a man will never be equitable between the women.
Now about the prophet being an exceptional case, this is the point critics of Islam always bring up, saying that if he was such a holy and righteous man, why didn?t he stick to marrying widows and older women? Why did he go and marry a young virgin girl? Can anyone give a good reason as to why he would?ve married the much younger Aisha at his age?
How exceptional in fact? In several opportunities and different context I think also in wome regarding marriage, the Quran prohits certain things except what is already past. Do we have any mention int he Quran that ssome was forced to get rid of any wife because whe was too many? In fact it is only the profet that is told no to take any more wives nor divorce the ones he has. That he had more than others is only logical, since he was a chief and marriage has been historically a way of sealing alliances, and therefore more logical that chiefs and kings end up with more wives than other people.
Salaam
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I agree with huruf rendition. Perhaps the limiting of the maximum number of wives was revealed after he already had his wives, and then he was prohibited from taking any new wife.
His case could also be exceptional, since he was fobidden from divorcing any wife, and his wives from marrying anyone after his death.423?and that you combine between the two sisters, except what had preceded?
This by no means is a proof of open/unrestricted polygamy, otherwise verse 43 will be meaningless in giving a condition for/restricting polygamy. Verse 423 simply means that if this widow with orphans happens to be your sister-in-law (sister of your wife) you can by no means marry her.