Polygamy according to the Quran (Excerpt from QRT)
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I like it for the humanistic approach but am unable to check if its "grammatically" possible - not that i care for that too much - but at least i know that you have the tools to check this up ;D
something that always "killed" me, was the idea of forcing unmarried women to abort in case of pregnancy - if they are not just killed for the "honour" of the family. erasing a minor "sin" through murder or abortion... )
sorry offtopic but not really - it 's all related
salaam
lk -
I like it for the humanistic approach but am unable to check if its "grammatically" possible - not that i care for that too much - but at least i know that you have the tools to check this up ;D
something that always "killed" me, was the idea of forcing unmarried women to abort in case of pregnancy - if they are not just killed for the "honour" of the family. erasing a minor "sin" through murder or abortion... )
sorry offtopic but not really - it 's all related
salaam
lkSalaam Elke
Don't worry, it has nothing to do with grammar. Moreover, I do not know of a word for "illigitmate" children apart from phrases explaining them, and which I do not expect God to use them, such as a "child of fornication". The dicytonaries say about "yateem" a child who lost the father (allows for more meanings for "los", and not a child whose father is dead (more specific).And no, you are not off topic. Killing their babies shows that the woman is protecting herself, but even more her child from the dim future awaiting him.
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Peace Samia, all
Salaam phil, all
I agree with this. However, there's another verb "nakaha " which means to marry. Both verbs have the same imperative Ankihu , the one used in his verse (vocalisation not withstanding). So, based on the verb, we cannot decide which one is being used.
That depends very much on the context of the verse. Looking at the subject addressed in the verse, i.e Q42-3, the focus here deals with the issue of orphan. That's all. There's nowhere to be found in the ayats dealing with the orphan's mother or whoever else for that matter. It's noteworthy to see how Q42 and Q43 is interconnected with the usage of diphtong "wa" at the beginning of Q43. In other word, the subject in Q43 is the same subject addressed in Q42.
Now, we have to ask our self, does it make sense that God command us to marry the orphans under our own care? Or God command us to marry off the orphans?
So, let's go to the logic Why marrying off the orphans after they were given their property when they proved to be mature? They can marry themselves like any other adult, and are no more considered "orphans/vulnerable". How would "marrying them off" alleviate injustice?
I beg to differ. We marry off the orphans, so that we can surrender back their inheritance. And off course the orphans have their right to get married on their own and subsequently claim back their properties. In other word, if the orphan married on their own, then there's no issue. The issue here is the caretaker having fear for not able to be just whilst holding the inheritance of the orphans. This concern is illustrated in Q42 and further emphasized at the beginning of Q43.
Secondly, what's the meaning of "if you fear not being just, then only one"?
In any way we arrive at the meaning of this ayat, I think it's inconclusive to take it as the justification for polygamy. Reason being is simple the context of the verse is about the orphans. Unless you want to define the polygamy is allowed when you marry the orphans under your own care. >D
This verse has both verbs (marry and marry off respectively, in bold). Notice that the (marry off) in Arabic is followed by the masculine, not the feminine. Actually it does not mean (marry off) as in English, but (marry to marry a woman to a man)
Noted.
Either way, the focus/subject matter is still the orphans.
And I expect when you made (mushrik means married) in this verse, then mu'min should be (single). If they become loyal, how can you marry them? Loyal to their partners, I suppose. If it is not to the patner, why is it advisable to marry them?
Shiin-Ra-Kaf means having partner, and here in this verse, the context of the ayat deals with people, NOT God. Again applying the same logic, mu'min here means loyal. And being loyal means that you do not set up partner. Consequently, marry those who do not set up partner. Does it make sense?
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004003 Polygamy is allowed only to provide psychological, social and economic support for widows with orphans (See 4127). Muhammad's practice of polygamy must have been in accordance with the condition to serve an important social service.
004127 This verse has been commonly mistranslated to justify marrying young orphan girls rather than marrying their widow mothers. The mistranslation is so obvious, that it is curious how those who had knowledge of Arabic did not notice it. Unfortunately, this mistranslation helped the justification of marrying girls at a very young age. Though the Quran permits polygamy to men (43), it strictly discourages its actual practice by requiring certain significant preconditions men may marry more than one wife only if the later ones are widows with children, and they should treat each wife equally and fairly (See 419-20; 127-129.)
Edip, so does this mean that the story of Muhammad marrying Aisha is false? It is widely believed by Muslims that she was his last wife, a rather young woman and never married before.
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Edip Yuksel, Arnold Yasin or others, I'd appreciate an answer to the question about Aisha. Thank you.
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Quote from Edip Yuksel on May 11, 2008, 063422 AM
004003 Polygamy is allowed only to provide psychological, social and economic support for widows with orphans (See 4127). Muhammad's practice of polygamy must have been in accordance with the condition to serve an important social service.
004127 This verse has been commonly mistranslated to justify marrying young orphan girls rather than marrying their widow mothers. The mistranslation is so obvious, that it is curious how those who had knowledge of Arabic did not notice it. Unfortunately, this mistranslation helped the justification of marrying girls at a very young age. Though the Quran permits polygamy to men (43), it strictly discourages its actual practice by requiring certain significant preconditions men may marry more than one wife only if the later ones are widows with children, and they should treat each wife equally and fairly (See 419-20; 127-129.)
Edip Yuksel, Arnold Yasin or others, I'd appreciate an answer to the question about Aisha. Thank you.
The answer to your question is below in context...
3332-37 O wives of the Prophet! You are not like any other women. If you keep your duty, then be not soft in speech, lest he in whose heart is a disease should be moved with desire, but speak in an honorable manner. And stay in your houses, and do not display yourselves like that of the times of ignorance, and perform As-Sal?t, and give Zak?t and obey All?h and His Messenger. All?h wishes only to remove Ar?Rijs (evil deeds and sins) from you, O members of the family, and to purify you with a thorough purification. And remember, that which is recited in your houses of the Verses of All?h and Al?Hikmah. Verily, All?h is Ever Most Courteous, Well?Acquainted with all things. Verily, the Muslims men and women, the believers men and women, the men and the women who are obedient, the men and women who are truthful, the men and the women who are patient, the men and the women who are humble, the men and the women who give Sadaq?t, the men and the women who observe Saum (fast), the men and the women who guard their chastity and the men and the women who remember All?h much with their hearts and tongues. All?h has prepared for them forgiveness and a great reward. It is not for a believer, man or woman, when All?h and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any option in their decision. And whoever disobeys All?h and His Messenger, he has indeed strayed in to a plain error. And when you said to him on whom All?h has bestowed Grace and you have done favour "Keep your wife to yourself, and fear All?h." But you did hide in yourself that which All?h will make manifest, you did fear the people whereas All?h had a better right that you should fear Him. So when Zaid had accomplished his desire from her, We gave her to you in marriage, so that there may be no difficulty to the believers in respect of the wives of their adopted sons when the latter have no desire to keep them. And All?h's Command must be fulfilled.
The woman above was not a widow and Qur?an does not forbid a man from having more than one wife if all parties are OK with it.
The issue is only frowned upon in ?modern? society which many are not right in the head morally hypocritical cheating unfaithful with over 50% divorce.
Peace
Mirupafshim D
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Thank you for taking the time to reply, Nun de Plume.
MirupafshimMirupafshim...
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The answer to your question is below in context...
3332-37 O wives of the Prophet! You are not like any other women. If you keep your duty, then be not soft in speech, lest he in whose heart is a disease should be moved with desire, but speak in an honorable manner. And stay in your houses, and do not display yourselves like that of the times of ignorance, and perform As-Sal?t, and give Zak?t and obey All?h and His Messenger. All?h wishes only to remove Ar?Rijs (evil deeds and sins) from you, O members of the family, and to purify you with a thorough purification. And remember, that which is recited in your houses of the Verses of All?h and Al?Hikmah. Verily, All?h is Ever Most Courteous, Well?Acquainted with all things. Verily, the Muslims men and women, the believers men and women, the men and the women who are obedient, the men and women who are truthful, the men and the women who are patient, the men and the women who are humble, the men and the women who give Sadaq?t, the men and the women who observe Saum (fast), the men and the women who guard their chastity and the men and the women who remember All?h much with their hearts and tongues. All?h has prepared for them forgiveness and a great reward. It is not for a believer, man or woman, when All?h and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any option in their decision. And whoever disobeys All?h and His Messenger, he has indeed strayed in to a plain error. And when you said to him on whom All?h has bestowed Grace and you have done favour "Keep your wife to yourself, and fear All?h." But you did hide in yourself that which All?h will make manifest, you did fear the people whereas All?h had a better right that you should fear Him. So when Zaid had accomplished his desire from her, We gave her to you in marriage, so that there may be no difficulty to the believers in respect of the wives of their adopted sons when the latter have no desire to keep them. And All?h's Command must be fulfilled.
The woman above was not a widow and Qur?an does not forbid a man from having more than one wife if all parties are OK with it.
The issue is only frowned upon in ?modern? society which many are not right in the head morally hypocritical cheating unfaithful with over 50% divorce.
Peace
Mirupafshim
Salaam, num de plume
I do not know whether the aya you quote supports what you say regarding more than one wife. I can see that the Prophet could, but from where do you get that other men are allowed to? I do not see it from that aya.
On theother hand in the ayas regarding inheritance there is no mention whatsoever of the inheritance to more than one wife of the deceased.
I have nothing against duly protected and legislated poligamy depending on social needs, but I do not see poligamy endorsed in this aya except in the case of the Prophet which as is clearly stated is an exceptional case. Am I missing something?
I see that one is authorized to marry the divorced wife of one adoptive son, but so what?
Salaam
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Salaam, num de plume
I do not know whether the aya you quote supports what you say regarding more than one wife. I can see that the Prophet could, but from where do you get that other men are allowed to? I do not see it from that aya.
On theother hand in the ayas regarding inheritance there is no mention whatsoever of the inheritance to more than one wife of the deceased.
I have nothing against duly protected and legislated poligamy depending on social needs, but I do not see poligamy endorsed in this aya except in the case of the Prophet which as is clearly stated is an exceptional case. Am I missing something?
I see that one is authorized to marry the divorced wife of one adoptive son, but so what?
Salaam
Salaam huruf,
423?and that you combine between the two sisters, except what had preceded?
4129 ?and you will never be able that you be equitable between the women?
Therefore, it?s not forbidden although comes with advice to proceed with caution -- mansions, designer gowns, luxury cars and a credit card for shopping ?til they drop. ;D
http//www.jewelryexpert.com/ARTICLES/Fancy-Color-Diamonds.htm
http//thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumb_86/11591073799ev0SM.jpg
Then there are all the immaterial things as well and the list continues?
peace
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The answer to your question is below in context...
3332-37 O wives of the Prophet! You are not like any other women. If you keep your duty, then be not soft in speech, lest he in whose heart is a disease should be moved with desire, but speak in an honorable manner. And stay in your houses, and do not display yourselves like that of the times of ignorance, and perform As-Sal?t, and give Zak?t and obey All?h and His Messenger. All?h wishes only to remove Ar?Rijs (evil deeds and sins) from you, O members of the family, and to purify you with a thorough purification. And remember, that which is recited in your houses of the Verses of All?h and Al?Hikmah. Verily, All?h is Ever Most Courteous, Well?Acquainted with all things. Verily, the Muslims men and women, the believers men and women, the men and the women who are obedient, the men and women who are truthful, the men and the women who are patient, the men and the women who are humble, the men and the women who give Sadaq?t, the men and the women who observe Saum (fast), the men and the women who guard their chastity and the men and the women who remember All?h much with their hearts and tongues. All?h has prepared for them forgiveness and a great reward. It is not for a believer, man or woman, when All?h and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any option in their decision. And whoever disobeys All?h and His Messenger, he has indeed strayed in to a plain error. And when you said to him on whom All?h has bestowed Grace and you have done favour "Keep your wife to yourself, and fear All?h." But you did hide in yourself that which All?h will make manifest, you did fear the people whereas All?h had a better right that you should fear Him. So when Zaid had accomplished his desire from her, We gave her to you in marriage, so that there may be no difficulty to the believers in respect of the wives of their adopted sons when the latter have no desire to keep them. And All?h's Command must be fulfilled.
The woman above was not a widow and Qur?an does not forbid a man from having more than one wife if all parties are OK with it.
The issue is only frowned upon in ?modern? society which many are not right in the head morally hypocritical cheating unfaithful with over 50% divorce.
Peace
Mirupafshim D
Peace.
This is a good citation. I never really analyzed this Scripture until now...
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4129 ?and you will never be able that you be equitable between the women?
Therefore, it?s not forbidden although comes with advice to proceed with caution -- mansions, designer gowns, luxury cars and a credit card for shopping ?til they drop. ;D
http//www.jewelryexpert.com/ARTICLES/Fancy-Color-Diamonds.htm
http//thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumb_86/11591073799ev0SM.jpg
Then there are all the immaterial things as well and the list continues?
peace
Nun, that should be sufficient to compensate for the fact that a man will never be equitable between the women.
Now about the prophet being an exceptional case, this is the point critics of Islam always bring up, saying that if he was such a holy and righteous man, why didn?t he stick to marrying widows and older women? Why did he go and marry a young virgin girl? Can anyone give a good reason as to why he would?ve married the much younger Aisha at his age?
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Nun, that should be sufficient to compensate for the fact that a man will never be equitable between the women.
Now about the prophet being an exceptional case, this is the point critics of Islam always bring up, saying that if he was such a holy and righteous man, why didn?t he stick to marrying widows and older women? Why did he go and marry a young virgin girl? Can anyone give a good reason as to why he would?ve married the much younger Aisha at his age?
How exceptional in fact? In several opportunities and different context I think also in wome regarding marriage, the Quran prohits certain things except what is already past. Do we have any mention int he Quran that ssome was forced to get rid of any wife because whe was too many? In fact it is only the profet that is told no to take any more wives nor divorce the ones he has. That he had more than others is only logical, since he was a chief and marriage has been historically a way of sealing alliances, and therefore more logical that chiefs and kings end up with more wives than other people.
Salaam
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I agree with huruf rendition. Perhaps the limiting of the maximum number of wives was revealed after he already had his wives, and then he was prohibited from taking any new wife.
His case could also be exceptional, since he was fobidden from divorcing any wife, and his wives from marrying anyone after his death.423?and that you combine between the two sisters, except what had preceded?
This by no means is a proof of open/unrestricted polygamy, otherwise verse 43 will be meaningless in giving a condition for/restricting polygamy. Verse 423 simply means that if this widow with orphans happens to be your sister-in-law (sister of your wife) you can by no means marry her.
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Peace Samia,
Yes 43 is one solution presented how to deal with orphans which of course is not the only solution.
Verse 423 simply means that if this widow with orphans happens to be your sister-in-law (sister of your wife) you can by no means marry her.
In context -- please explain how you infer only a "special case" widow with orphans below...
422-23
And do not marry what your fathers married from the women, except what had preceded/passed, that it was an enormous/atrocious deed , and abhorrence/hateful , and (it is an) evil way/path.
Your mothers, and your daughters, and your sisters, and your paternal aunts, and your maternal aunts, and the brothers' daughters (nieces), and the sisters' daughters (nieces), and your mothers who breast fed you, and your sisters from the lactation/breast feeding, and your women's (wives' mothers (mothers in-law), and your step- daughters who (are) in your custody from your women (wives) whom you entered with them (F), are forbidden on you, so if you were not entered with them (F), so no offense/sin on you, and (also forbidden on you are) your sons' allowed/permitted women (wives) whom (are) from your backbones/genealogical relations ,and that you combine between the two sisters, except what had preceded, that God was/is forgiving, merciful.
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Salaam Nun
I do not know if I have understood your question. What do you mean by "special case", because I did not use this expression? Anyway, I will try to respond to your question
All the persons cited in the verse are prohibited to marry under any circumstances (permanent prohibition). However, the sister of your wife is not to be married as long as her sister is your wife (temporary prohibition),i.e if she happens to be a mother of orphans, then you cannot marry her while you are married to her sister (combining both sisters). But you can be the husband of either one. -
Peace Samia,
I do not know if I have understood your question. What do you mean by "special case", because I did not use this expression? Anyway, I will try to respond to your question
All the persons cited in the verse are prohibited to marry under any circumstances (permanent prohibition). However, the sister of your wife is not to be married as long as her sister is your wife (temporary prohibition),i.e if she happens to be a mother of orphans, then you cannot marry her while you are married to her sister (combining both sisters). But you can be the husband of either one.The verse and not to combine between the two sisters is a general case and ?a mother of orphans? is an inference stemming from also inferring that 43 is the only condition for marrying more than one wife.
43 And if you feared that you not be just/equitable in the orphans, so marry what (was) allowed/permitted for you from the women two twos/twos, and threes, and fours, so if you feared that you not be just/equitable, so (marry) one or what your rights owned/possessed, that (is) nearer that you not side away from justice.
Can we also infer that marrying more than one wife is only exception/way to deal with orphans?
What if they were numerous widows without children or young good looking wealthy widows without children ? would they have a problem finding a husband to remarry?
They and even the single non widows would have issues finding husbands if many of the men were killed in battle.
The verse advices/encourages men to marry the widows of orphans since they are at the low end of desire for marriage (a burden) and not all women are great lookers with wealth.
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Salaam Nun
I do not think we differ (as I agree with what you wrote). I do not usually use the term "widow" but mother of orphans, because this is not about women but about orphans. Marriage maybe necessary, but not indespensible. If there are not enough husnbands, this does not justify stealing the husband of another woman. God advises patience if marriage is not accessible.
IMO, mothers of "orphans" are not necessarily widows (or maybe they are not even widows). Having the father dead (and not having financial support after him) is as bad as being poor with a living father. I think it's about fatherless children (result of rape or ust illegal children) who are rejected by the society. All the money will not solve their poblem, but a "father" will, even a poor one. And this is the meaning of being just to them -
Salaam Nun
I do not know if I have understood your question. What do you mean by "special case", because I did not use this expression? Anyway, I will try to respond to your question
All the persons cited in the verse are prohibited to marry under any circumstances (permanent prohibition). However, the sister of your wife is not to be married as long as her sister is your wife (temporary prohibition),i.e if she happens to be a mother of orphans, then you cannot marry her while you are married to her sister (combining both sisters). But you can be the husband of either one.Saalam Samia.
?Wa an tajmau baynel ukhtayn? does this term really means ?that you join between two sisters at the same time? Is it a temporary prohibition or a permanent one?
Suppose a man marries the first sister and brings a boy and his wife dies. Then he marries the second sister and brings a girl. Are the boy and girl sister and brother or are they cousins? According the very same ayat are they permitet to marry each other or not?
Does this situation create a contradiction in the interpretation of this ayat?
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Suppose a man marries the first sister and brings a boy and his wife dies. Then he marries the second sister and brings a girl. Are the boy and girl sister and brother or are they cousins? According the very same ayat are they permitet to marry each other or not?
Does this situation create a contradiction in the interpretation of this ayat?
Peace,
Same father, they are brother and sister (cannot marry).
Likewise if the father dies and woman remarries and has a daughter with new husband they too are brother and sister (cannot marry). There are no half siblings, all of the same mother or the same father are brothers and sisters.