verse 20:20 (hayyatun)

sabo

Salam all,

I think the word "hayyatun" in 2020 is wrongly and commonly understood as "serpent"

free-minds translations

So he cast it down, and it became a moving serpent!

The word hayyatun is derived from the root h-y-y which means to live. and the verse simply says that Moses' staff became living & moving.

I think the reason, why this word became understood as "serpent" in arabic language is because of verses 7107 and 2632 which say, that the staff became "tho3baan" (snake). That's why I think that the word "hayyatun" turned to be understood as snake/serpent after the Quran was revealed, not before.

Verse 2020 adds the information that this tho3baan (snake) is living and moving.

Best regards,
sabo

unknownuser

Peace be upon you Sabo,

Good information. With that understanding, what is the lesson that one should get from this story of the stick coming alive?

sabo

Salam idolfree1,

I am not sure yet which lesson i can understand D

I just find no reason, in this verse particularly, to translate the word "hayyatun" as serpent, when the word "hayy" (masculine form) is translated in all other positions as living.

Maye the lesson is that God can make anything , which is lifeless, alive? ) Maybe there are other lessons behind the whole story, but I am not sure yet

Best regards,
sabo

unknownuser

Peace be upon you Sabo,

I am not sure yet which lesson i can understand

Respected.

I just find no reason, in this verse particularly, to translate the word "hayyatun" as serpent, when the word "hayy" (masculine form) is translated in all other positions as living.

That makes perfect sense to me.

Maye the lesson is that God can make anything , which is lifeless, alive? Maybe there are other lessons behind the whole story, but I am not sure yet

I think the clue is in the following verses;

(2017-1 "And what (is) that at your right you, Moses?" He said "It is my stick, I lean on/support myself on it, and I hit/move/shake with it on my sheep and goats, and for me in it others needs/purposes."

My understanding is as follows, The stick represents his philosophy, it is his philosophy that he leans on for support and it is the philosophy that he teaches others. At this point, his philosophy was of material nature, then the God brought this "dead" philosophy to life. When you throw something, it travels through the air, like birds. In symbolism, things that are higher up are more spiritual, and things that are low to the material earth are physical.

marie

Salam brother Sabo,

Salam all,

I think the word "hayyatun" in 2020 is wrongly and commonly understood as "serpent"

free-minds translations

So he cast it down, and it became a moving serpent!

The word hayyatun is derived from the root h-y-y which means to live. and the verse simply says that Moses' staff became living & moving.

I think the reason, why this word became understood as "serpent" in arabic language is because of verses 7107 and 2632 which say, that the staff became "tho3baan" (snake). That's why I think that the word "hayyatun" turned to be understood as snake/serpent after the Quran was revealed, not before.

Verse 2020 adds the information that this tho3baan (snake) is living and moving.

Best regards,
sabo

I agree with you and the same word is used in other verses and means the living

Alhayyu/ the Living (2255, 40 65)

Alhayya / the living (3 27)

"staff became living & moving" is a good translation and closer to the arabic text.

Regards

Marie

unknownuser

Sorry marie but the staff didn't become living or moving,try translating the words individualy and then try saying it.Salaams.

I think.

marie

peace mz357,

Thanks for your counsel, the quran explains itself and gives us the best explanation.

Ahmad Shabir translates "fa-itha hiya hayyatun tasAAa" as "was vibrant with life" and according the context of Alhayya / the living in 3 27, the translation of brother sabo makes sence for me.

Do you have a better translation of this part in the light of the quran?

Thanks

Marie

unknownuser

Salaams marie,
you misunderstand dear sister,i didn't say the meaning of the word was wrong it is partly right ,i said it is not the stick that comes alive.

when your attention is on your stick,or your pencil,or your hat and you are sitting in a class to learn ,you tell us what will your teacher say to you.

Put it down,and pay attention - that is what has happened here.Allah told moses to put the stick or throw it away and pay attention and thus then allahs teaching comes alive, if you didn't understand what i said previously was just try translating the words following the stick and see ,and believe you me , a surprise will be coming your way.

Salaams .

sabo

Yeah Marie,

and if you translate 7107 and 2632 then you will find Allah's teachings became a snake (whatever that means) and if it is not logical then try splitting the word tho3baan into two words, for example tho3b + an and if you don't know what tho3b is, no problem, split tho3b into other two words, tho + o3b and try putting any meaning to them, main point is try to find something else than this what is believed to be found in the Quran, to impress others and claim you have found new discoveries in the Quran D

Best regards,
sabo

p.s. the root th-3-b has also different meanings, and then we can really have endless possibilities of translating these texts

unknownuser

Peace be upon you MZ,

you misunderstand dear sister,i didn't say the meaning of the word was wrong it is partly right ,i said it is not the stick that comes alive.

when your attention is on your stick,or your pencil,or your hat and you are sitting in a class to learn ,you tell us what will your teacher say to you.

Put it down,and pay attention - that is what has happened here.Allah told moses to put the stick or throw it away and pay attention and thus then allahs teaching comes alive,

Please elaborate on this understanding MZ. How does it apply to the story of Musa and the magicians, when Musa told the magicians to "throw first"?

unknownuser

Good luck with your migical powers sabo,i was hoping you arabs will use those against the poor americans.Gosh i missed it.

Salaams.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you MZ,

Please elaborate on this understanding MZ. How does it apply to the story of Musa and the magicians, when Musa told the magicians to "throw first"?

unknownuser

Salaams idol,sabo,shuaob,all,

Heres the magic bullet - as the translation goesUsing lanes and or/qd

2632

So threw his stick (away) then brought under authority/behold it was (like a)flowing torent seperating /severing /disuniting and yearned /longed /desired means /favour /generousity and brought under authority/behold it(was) clear (asked them) will not you consider.

Sorry idol this is something i picked up from you and agree with it ,even if you don't anymore.

Bye.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you MZ,

Heres the magic bullet - as the translation goesUsing lanes and or/qd

2632

So threw his stick (away) then brought under authority/behold it was (like a)flowing torent seperating /severing /disuniting and yearned /longed /desired means /favour /generousity and brought under authority/behold it(was) clear (asked them) will not you consider.

Sorry idol this is something i picked up from you and agree with it ,even if you don't anymore.

I missed what the bullet was, and I am unsure as to what you are saying you got from me. Please elaborate brother, you confused me with that last post.

unknownuser

Sorry i just meant your views on the sticks changing into snakes.

forget the bullet bit.thanks.

I was just looking into the staff in the lanes and came accross this ,may interest some brothers,like hafeez,aymaan.

(2632)Alkaa asaahu =(exect words as in the quran)(Lit he through down his staff)Meaning he steyed and rested and ceased from journeys,having reached his place.Applied to him to whom an affair has become suitable and who has therefor kept to it;or who made firm his tent-pegs,and pitched his tent,or stayed,like him who has returned from his journey.

And i think my above translation can thus be improved.Thanks.

sabo

Salam MZ,

Good luck with your migical powers sabo,i was hoping you arabs will use those against the poor americans.Gosh i missed it.

Is this your standard of argumentation? That is no high standard at all, and I don't seek such kind of discussion. Going to personal insults shows a poor standard and lack of argument

Salam
sabo

sabo

Salam MZ,

Good luck with your migical powers sabo,i was hoping you arabs will use those against the poor americans.Gosh i missed it.

Is this your standard of argumentation? That is no high standard at all, and I don't seek such kind of discussion. Going to personal insults shows a poor standard and lack of argument

Salam
sabo

marie

peace all,

We should consider the whole verses about this subject.

The word "ghanamee" is a key word.

He said ?It is my staff, I lean on it, and I guide my sheep with it, and I have other uses in it.?
Qala hiya AAasaya atawakkaoAAalayha waahushshu biha AAala ghanamee waliya feeha maaribu okhra

albaqari waalghanami / the cattle and the sheep (6146)