Wifes rights conserning divorse
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Salam,
Allah is not unjust to anyone. Marriage is a pledge taken by both parties. It's a contract between two sane people to live togather as life partners and raise togather future generation as a family to contribute to a healthy social makeover and who agree to it without any force. That's a reason for public anouncement and witnesses. A divorce is a way to end this contract and to break free from his relation that is formed because of that contract.. and same way needs public anouncement and witnesses. The Quran describes clear cut detailed way for getting divorce and it's same for BOTH men and women. Both have to go to a court or an artbitrator who's to be appointed by Allah's law in Quran to get every divorce. The concept of pronouncing divorces whenever a man wishes is totally un Islamic and non Quranic way.
Thats all to it.wasalam
another free mind
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Salam Aleikum!
I have a guestionWhat Koran say about wifes right to divorse.If husband don't want to divorce,wife can get divorced by court,but I think husband and wife must have agreement about it or not.I this case if marriage contract is made in mosque.I understand that husband must let wife divorced, if she wish so. So, is it right thing in Koran to get divorced by court?So let me get this right? Your Koran says that the Torah, the Book of Psalms and the Gospel are from Jehovah God? Muslims believe in the Law of Moses again even though Jesus put the law of Moses to death on the torture stake, not cross? 7 Centuries later Muhammad comes up with the Koran that has many contradictions in itself yet refers to him fulfilling scriptures Jesus already fulfilled and also calls basically the bible the word of God and you actually do not believe the scriptures I showed you here? If Muslims are suppose to go by the law of Moses then why are you trusting a book such as this Koran that is so disorderly over even the Hebrew Scriptures. The only grounds for divorce period in Jehovah God's eyes is what counts. He does not change his morality over time. Then if that was the case he would be a liar himself. He does not change how he views things. Only men make those changes.
(Psalm 3311) ?To time indefinite the very counsel of Jehovah will stand; The thoughts of his heart are to one generation after another generation.?
(Numbers 2319) ?God is not a man that he should tell lies, Neither a son of mankind that he should feel regret. Has he himself said it and will he not do it, And has he spoken and will he not carry it out??
So he councils us not to divorce and in fact he hates divorcing except when the threefold cord was broken in Fornication and he still does not like it.
Well lets make this simpler for you. Here is what is in the Torah going by the law of Moses which for some strange reason Muhammad decided Muslims needed to go back to in producing the obviously disorganized book the Koran? So here is Jehovah Gods Council from way before the Koran was even thought of by anyone. Remember the Koran tells you to go by the Torah also!
(Genesis 224) ?That is why a man will leave his father and his mother and he must stick to his wife and they must become one flesh.?
It says you must stick to your wife and that goes the other way also. She must stick to you also. Here is what breaks that bound and how the Law of Moses dealt with it
(Leviticus 2010) ?10 ??Now a man who commits adultery with another man?s wife is one who commits adultery with the wife of his fellowman. He should be put to death without fail, the adulterer and the adulteress as well.. . .?
(Exodus 2014) ??You must not commit adultery.?
(Deuteronomy 2222) ??In case a man is found lying down with a woman owned by an owner, both of them must then die together, the man lying down with the woman and the woman. So you must clear away what is bad out of Israel.?
(Deuteronomy 2224) ?YOU must also bring them both out to the gate of that city and pelt them with stones, and they must die, the girl for the reason that she did not scream in the city, and the man for the reason that he humiliated the wife of his fellowman. So you must clear away what is evil from your midst.?
Death was the end result in the Law of Moses and the Torah.
Now the Gospel says on this matter
(Matthew 196) ?So that they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has yoked together let no man put apart.??
(Matthew 19 ?He said to them ?Moses, out of regard for YOUR hardheartedness, made the concession to YOU of divorcing YOUR wives, but such has not been the case from beginning.?
(Matthew 532) ?However, I say to YOU that everyone divorcing his wife, except on account of fornication, makes her a subject for adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.?
(Mark 109) ?Therefore what God yoked together let no man put apart.??
Again that "no man" also applies to "no woman" and it includes the married couple themselves.
(Hebrews 134) ?Let marriage be honorable among all, and the marriage bed be without defilement, for God will judge fornicators and adulterers.?
(1 Corinthians 69) ?What! Do YOU not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God?s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men,?
(Hebrews 134) ?Let marriage be honorable among all, and the marriage bed be without defilement, for God will judge fornicators and adulterers.?
I know you do not care about this scripture to much but at the time the Gospel was written this was used by Jesus and his disciples. (Malachi 215-16) ?And there was one who did not do , as he had what was remaining of spirit. And what was that one seeking? The seed of God. And YOU people must guard yourselves respecting YOUR spirit, and with the wife of your youth may no one deal treacherously. 16 For he has hated a divorcing,? Jehovah the God of Israel has said; ?and the one who with violence has covered over his garment,? Jehovah of armies has said. ?And YOU must guard yourselves respecting YOUR spirit, and YOU must not deal treacherously.?
You ask me though about the Koran. You know the bible was around way before the Koran. In fact the Koran was written by many of those around Muhammad as he was illiterate himself. I heard the story that the Koran was there always and had no beginning and etc. just like Jehovah God, but if that is the case then how did it get written. If it was always here then that is impossible. Everything that is written has an author. The Koran was written by more than one author also. It has too many contradictions to be from Jehovah God or even inspired by him. Jehovah is a God of order, not disorder. (1 Corinthians 1433) ?For God is , not of disorder, but of peace. As in all the congregations of the holy ones,? (1 Corinthians 1440) ?But let all things take place decently and by arrangement.?
(Galatians 525) ?If we are living by spirit, let us go on walking orderly also by spirit.?
(Colossians 25) ?For though I am absent in the flesh, all the same I am with YOU in the spirit, rejoicing and beholding YOUR good order and the firmness of YOUR faith toward Christ.?
The Book of Numbers emphasizes that Jehovah is the God of order, requiring exclusive devotion of his creatures. This is vividly impressed on our minds when reading it as we observe the numbering, testing, and sifting of Israel and see how the nation?s disobedient and rebellious course is used to emphasize the vital need to obey Jehovah God.
Now what gets me here is you can see from the scriptures above that Jehovah is a God of Order and Peace. The Koran promotes hate and war towards that later part of its writings I have learned. Jehovah's largest quality is love. The Koran supports hellfire and torture. That is not what God is or has planned for mankind or even his enemies. Does this Koran to you sound like a book of love and peace if it contradicts the Torah, The Psalms, and the Gospel which was written way before the Koran came into the picture? This Koran uses scare tactics but if they followed the bible they would know that death is not torture or even heaven. You just die. The immortal soul came from Satan. He told Eve in the garden that if she ate from the tree she was told not to eat from she positively will not die. He lied to her. He is still telling all of mankind the same lie to control them. He scares them with the threat of hellfire that seers off there flesh and then it regrows back and seers it off again and so on for eternity. According to Islamic belief, Once a person dies Allah will then assess each person?s life course and consign him either to paradise or to hellfire. Hell which is also called She'ol or the grave is not a place to fear, because if so why would Job ask to be concealed in it?
(Job 1413-14) ?. . .O that in Sheol you would conceal me, That you would keep me secret until your anger turns back, That you would set a time limit for me and remember me! 14 If an able-bodied man dies can he live again? All the days of my compulsory service I shall wait, Until my relief comes.?
(Ecclesiastes 910) ?All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol, the place to which you are going.?
The scriptures are clear, Jehovah God is a God of Love.
(1 John 4 ?He that does not love has not come to know God, because God is love.?
(Exodus 346) ?And Jehovah went passing by before his face and declaring ?Jehovah, Jehovah, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger and abundant in loving-kindness and truth,?
(Micah 71 ?Who is a God like you, one pardoning error and passing over transgression of the remnant of his inheritance? He will certainly not hold onto his anger forever, for he is delighting in loving-kindness.?
(1 John 419) ?As for us, we love, because he first loved us.?
Being that Jehovah God is a God of Love why would anyone think he teaches a hellfire and burning torture for all eternity unless they are talking about Lazarus which Jesus was using as a parable because scripturally Jehovah God does not even think of such a thing as burning torture for anyone. This is what Jehovah says when they where burning people or I should say their sons and daughters as sacrifices.
(Jeremiah 731) ?And they have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, a thing that I had not commanded and that had not come up into my heart.??
(1 John 4 ?He that does not love has not come to know God, because God is love.?
This is how you weed out the truth. You look at the Word of God. It also weeds out false prophets and holy books. Do you not find it strange that all the false Pagan religions such as Hindu and Buddhists and so forth have hellfire scare tactics and eternal torture to scare people. That even includes supposed Christian groups such as the Southern Baptists and even the Catholic Church for that matter. I know you do not want to hear this but even the Koran has polluted the truths that Jehovah God wants everyone to come to know.
Before I became a Jehovah's Witness I searched for the truth in all manners and ways I could. I even was studying to do Astro travel on my own with books I read on it. I tried the Southern Baptist Church (Hellfire and Brimstone doctrines all the way.) and the Assembly of God (Which threw a Magic show to get people to come to it. You know that is not scriptural. The next time they threw a hard rock music show.) As a Child my mother took me to a Presbyterians Church (They would not allow the children to learn with the adults and we just learned how to decorate paper plates with painted noddles) and the Roman Catholic Church later on (They did the Midnight Christmas Mas in Latin and I walked out because frankly I went to learn and they only spoke a language I could not understand and they mumbled it at that.) and I was even Christened a Methodist as a very young boy. I use to check out some of Budda's teachings and I had a nice wooden budda where I rubbed the tummy with no results ever. I looked into Hindu also and that was not where it was at also.
One thing I did learn is that the bible was given to us to keep us on the right path. Anything that swayed us off that path would be revealed in the bible. I researched your Koran some. Enough to know that it is not from a God of Order. It does not meet the standards of the bible or even the Torah , the Psalms and the Gospel alone. Those are what are to help guide us to find the truth. It contradicts itself in fact. What attracted me to your web site is that you people do not believe in the Trinity and call Jehovah God by his true name. That impressed me a lot. But the more I researched the more I learned that you have been swayed to far off the path to everlasting life by a con man from Mecca. He took advantage of the Muslims need to feel they where important to Jehovah God and wrote his own book with help from others and the one who started the Lie that you will not die to begin with. We will die but we are in the last days when we may have a chance to not even have to die. Only if we are on the cramped and narrow path of truth though. I had been around Jehovah's Witnesses as a youth and I was beginning to believe in them. Then class mates told me they have their own bible and that Jehovah is not God's true name and so forth. I believed them then. Which is what started me out on other quests into other religions and I had already tried other religions before being around some Jehovah's Witnesses. I was in the US Navy when in our barracks sat a Gideon Bible. I opened it up to Psalms 8318 and there it was in another bible. The truth that I did not believe because I was lied too. It was in the King James but this is how it is said in my present bible called the New World Translation, (Psalm 831 ?That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah, You alone are the Most High over all the earth.?
After that I started studying with Jehovah's Witnesses some time later when they came to my door. I then realized that if I was to be teaching Love and Peace I had to stop being a part of the US Military or any military for that matter. Jehovah's Witnesses are politically neutral and do not go to war in any country. What made me realize the military service had to go was Jesus was tempted by Satan after fasting for 40 days in the wilderness. Satan in one of his attempts to sway Jesus offered him all the Nations of the earth if he would just bow down and do an act of worship to Satan. That means Satan has all the world governments in his hands including your own. Jesus never denied that Satan had that much power as he knew he did. So that makes the military the strong arm of those governments that Satan runs. Besides Jehovah in the 10 commandments says " You must not murder ". They only time he allowed Murder was when he was removing those from the lands he promised to his then chosen people, the Israelites. They murdered his Only begotten Son Jesus when he was in human form on earth so he took his blessings away from them after that. They are no longer his people. Instead he has opened up to people of all nations of the earth to come and join him and become Spiritual Israelites, not fleshly one and his other sheep the great crowd or multitude.
Those of the great crowd are promised a paradise earth to live on to time indefinite and even forever. They are promised no more death or pain or sorrow when the tent of God is with Mankind. Rev. 211-4 (Not Angel Kind but Mankind). But the scriptures also say the price for sin is death. Here is the best part, some will be allowed to walk to the other side of the great day of Jehovah's anger without ever having to die. But if we are sinning and not repentant then that will not happen. You have a chance to live forever as Adam and Eve would have had they not rebelled against Jehovah God's one commandment he told them not to do and told them the consequences of what would happen if they did.
Now if you still want to follow a book that is a contradiction in itself, the Koran, then you made your choice. But if you want to follow God's Word then you need to heed the bible. In a court of law in any country, yes, you can get a divorce and in fact that is exactly what Satan wants you to do. Because in doing so you have broken the bond of Marriage which was originally instituted by Jehovah God Himself. Satan loves to break up marriages. He loves one or the other of the marriage partners to be unfaithful to the other so that they are broken bonds or cords and then the threefold cord which is much harder to break will break that much easier.
What I am getting here is you are worried about how much your wife will receive if she divorces you of both of your properties and finances and if there are children involved am I correct? It is the usual issues.
I was married in the world before I became a Jehovah's Witness. My first wife lift me because of my becoming a Jehovah's Witness. She was raised to believe they are communists and a occult which both of those are lies. I would not divorce her as there was no grounds when she lift me. 3 Days later she came back and told me I had grounds for a divorce. I was in total shock she could so easily throw away what I thought we had between us. Women do not reason as men. They are run on emotions. I did not fight it too hard but to be on the safe side I gave her 6 months before I started the divorce proceedings but as soon as she lift me I gave her the whole apartment and everything I had almost. I left almost all of it behind except some blankets and pillows and cloths and a few important documents. The last time I saw her was when she came to pick up her finalized divorce papers. She broke down crying saying I thought she was ugly. I never said that and I did not think that also. I have no clue where that came from because I really wanted to hug her but I was afraid if I did that my heart would only get tore up again. So when I hesitated she automatically took it as the worst. I thought she was very pretty to be honest. That was the last time I ever saw her again in that manner. To tell you the truth I never stopped loving her. But she did not come back and she broke the marriage bond. The Elders are the ones who sat me down and told me I must divorce her as she was spreading my name around in the mud with every man she laid down with. I had my last name removed from her in the divorce proceedings legally so that would not longer happen. After that I had no plans to ever remarry again. Of course I did not know I was going to fall head over hills with my present wife. If she must leave you, no matter what the courts say, give her everything she wants even if she is in the wrong. you will have a cleaner conscience afterwards. That is what I learned. Leave in peace not anger and war and hatred. Only if there are grounds for such a departure on one of your sides? Adultery! If not then refuse divorce on scriptural grounds. Just tell her until there are scriptural grounds you can not give her a divorce because Jehovah God hates divorcing.
Now you did not answer my questions, which is why she wants a divorce from you in the first place? It is much easier if you tell me why to give good advise from the scriptures. At this way I have to go on presumptions and cover all bases. Also remember you are to give the laws of the land there proper place but when it conflicts with Jehovah God's laws and commandments in the scriptures you are to go by Jehovah God's laws over those of anyone else. Since you are to follow the Gospel also, you are to show love to your enemies scripturally speaking so how much more so with the wife you shared your most intimate moments and memories and time with? That is why I got out of the US Navy as a conscientious objector also.
I hope this helps but I need to know things about you other than what the laws you want to use are? The Koran is not the original word of God contrary to the con everyone is giving Muslims. Jehovah God split with the Israelites and his Messiah as was promised came already and fulfilled the law of Moses and the prophesies way before Muhammad showed up on the scene. In fact Muhammad uses some of the very prophesies that Jesus already fulfilled and it came from the bible to show he is the promised one. So he quotes the bible when it suits him but where was his miracles like Moses and Jesus performed? He did not raise anyone from the dead or heal the afflicted ones or make water appear where the was none or open the Red Sea and save the people. Where was his miracles. The Messiah was to perform many great and powerful works. Muhammad performed none? He is like Joseph Smith of the Mormons. A con man. Satan when he rebelled pulled about 1/3 of the angels away from Jehovah. Well Muhammad pulled about 1/3 of the earth away from exclusive devotion to Jehovah God also. Those supporting the Koran are saying his Koran was always here and has no beginning and no end just like Jehovah God himself from what I learned. Then they are putting a book in the same category as Jehovah God and he is a God exacting exclusive devotion. He is not going to share that place with a book that is so disorganized it is sickening to think anyone actually believes it is holy. It is not even scriptural at all. They are worshiping a book when the put it as high as Jehovah God himself.
(Exodus 205) ?You must not bow down to them nor be induced to serve them, because I Jehovah your God am a God exacting exclusive devotion, bringing punishment for the error of fathers upon sons, upon the third generation and upon the fourth generation, in the case of those who hate me;?
It is time for you all to turn back to Jehovah God and give him Exclusive Devotion, not a book that came way later. Jesus put to death on the torture stake the law of Moses in fulfilling every part of it. The only ones who are now making up stuff to keep you from learning the real truth is those religious leaders that torture you with hellfire and scare tactics and fleece you of all they can in the name of a book that is suppose to be par to Jehovah God?
It is time you reach out to Jehovah's People who do worship him with exclusive devotion. Jehovah's Witnesses or witnesses of Jehovah is what it means. In no few thousand years Jehovah has not changed. He always was and always will be the same personality. He offers you real hope. Not what you are being given now. He does not tell you to kill yourselves to prove your devotion to him. He does not tell you to kill others to prove it. You must not murder period and that includes yourselves.
Anything else is a lie and always has been. If it is between giving up Jehovah or dying then take dying but to take your own life to kill others is still murder. That you are commanded scripturally from Jehovah God himself not to do.
Take care If you need more advice contact someone at http//www.watchtower.org and get a free in home bible study going in your own language. See you later.
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Answer to Hawk,
Repeating something over and over doesn't improve it. You keep repeating the same thing over and over when your assertions have already been answered. Obviously the only thing that interests you in the Quran is to say how wrong nad contradictory it is and any other compliment that comes to your mind. Apart from no saying anything new, you repeat yourself. We already know what you think, we can read the Quran ourselves and also the Bible. Should be enough, although if it is a compulsion I can understand it. It is human to have compulsions.
And should be enough politeness that although if we were looking for things to criticise in the Bible you would drown in them, we do not do it, and that you keep harping at imaginary shortcomings of the Quran and still we do not do it. I think you should not give yourself so much trouble with the Quran, because by what you say I deduce that you are Quran blind. God willing you may be able to see in the future.
Again, according to the very same Bible, the Bible is not the word of God. At most it may contain a few quotations of the words of God.
Salaam
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Salam. Nikah is the joining of a man and a woman as zawj by Allah. There is no right of the wife concerning divorce. The right to divorce belongs to the husband, this has been repeated three times by Allah, in Shariat ul Musa, in Shariat ul Esa, and the Quran. The Quran repeats Shariat ul Musa and Shariat ul Esa, and it says, that what Allah has joined no man shall put asunder. The Quran permits only the husband to issue a talaq.
The restriction is so strict that the hadith of Ibraheem reports behold you are a dead man, for the woman you have taken, she is a mans wife. It matters not who tries to take a mans wife away from him, the wife herself, her father, her mother, or a judge, Allah has ordained death for that person.
Knowing that taking a wife away from her husband, has this punishment attached to the act, the wife is required to obtain a talaq from her husband first, then as a single woman she may leave. Allah requires a mandatory arbitration first. She must appoint her arbiter, the husband appoints his arbiter, the decison of the arbiters is binding on husband and wife. If the arbitration fails the wife may petition the husband for a talaq. The husband may perform a talaq within the required time period. I repeat the right of talaq is that of the husband, not of the wife, do not differ with Allah.
If a believing woman, wife of a man, takes herself away from her husband, or goes to a civil court to obtain a civil divorce, the wife has no talaq, and under Allahs law is still the zawj in the nikah. The answer to your question is, unless you obtain a talaq from your husband, following the procedure set out in the Quran, you are still his wife.
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salaam al araf,
that what Allah has joined no man shall put asunder
this sounds like catholicism but seems to be limited to the wife ;D
taking into account your position, do you at least believe that a man should let his wife go if she desires divorce or should he assume his role of prison warder till the bitter end ?
lk
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Salam Elke. The subject of talaq is a serious matter deserving of our respectful advice and debate. For this reason I respectfully refuse to engage in inflammatory language on the subject. The creed of Catholicism is in part derived from some of the laws Allah has prescribed for mankind.
In reply to your question, or at least the valid part of your question, excluding the provocative remarks like "prison warder" and "bitter end" Each nikah consists of the union of the zawj, who are unique individuals, with individual life histories, and circumstances. For example some zawj have children, some do not have children. Even more importantly there are disabled zawj who must be protected, and sometimes they lack the capacity to protect themselves.
As a general rule, assuming two normal individuals, I would defer to the language of the Quran, which states a husband may issue talaq. The use of the term "may" indicates it is a discretionary decision of the husband. If there was an intent on the part of Allah to tell a husband what he "should" do, Allah would have used the term "shall" In other words I prefer to go as far as Allah goes, no more, no less. Allah's words are wisdom and justice, I wish to remain in that wisdom and justice, I will not step outside those bounds.
Implicit in your question is a deeper search for Allah's wisdom. I believe Allah would permit me to say, that he has ordained hudood/limits on mankind in fairness and equity. According to Allah's hudood, fairness and equity comes from a balance of the rights and duties on mankind. In practice there is the duty of men to support women, and the right of women to receive support from men. Without counterbalancing rights for men, and duties on women, the limits would be inequitable.
I hope this will enable you to see the larger picture, that the totality of the rights and duties must be examined in order to reach a fair understanding of Allah's equity. To examine one right or duty in isolation, without examining its effects on the rest of the rights and duties would not allow a person to reach peace in their heart. With faith in the justice of Allah comes wisdom.
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Peace al araf
very good answer, but may be the problem is that i do see the larger picture, be it from the quranic side, as it should be, AND most of all practically, as it actually is translated into reality. I believe that , being that reality, and in search of justice and equity, some rules must sometimes be "transcended" and a woman needs to have the possibility of divorcing an abusive husband.
elke
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Salam Elke. I am a submitter to the Lord of the worlds. To walk in his light is my life. I will not walk in the light of any alleged "reality" that exceeds the hudood.
The concept of "an abusive zawj for which the retribution is a talaq" exceeds the hudood, and is not found in the Quran. Are you influenced by the practices of the mushriq? Because it is not found in the Quran I consider it a mushriq ideology and practice. May Allah protect me from the shaitan.
That said, Allah is justice itself, what does Allah prescribe for the situation you describe. You are either describing a verbally insult or physical assault. Allah prescribes an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, remember that it is better to be merciful and forgive. Allah therefore limits us to either verbally abuse back, return the physical assault, receive compensation for the harm, or forgive. These are the limits we are commanded not to exceed. Do not differ with Allah.
There are unusual situations in which a zawj has a mental illness which makes them prone to anger and violence. There is wahi containing hadith of such instances. Hagar the zaj of Abraham is recited to us as a reminder of an abusive zawj. I do not find any wahi of a Allah containing a hadith to talaq a zawj in the case of anger or violence. May Allah protect me from error.
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Peace al araf,
Allah therefore limits us to either verbally abuse back, return the physical assault, receive compensation for the harm, or forgive.
) Fortunately i'm very much into martial art - if not i'd have only forgive as an option, as most women have. Forgive how many times ? Where do we go from there ?
Never heard of ijtihad ? Sometimes, in order to respect the overall humanistic message of quran, one has to be open to other solutions - and i do not see it as the way of shaitan.
lk
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Salaam Elke. There is no commandment in the Quran to use ijtihad. Therefore ijtihad is not prescribed by Allah.
As a person who submitted myself to Allah, who submits to the hudood of Allah, I can neither exceed the hudood myself, or advise anyone else to exceed the hudood. I find many human beings prone to far too much pride, refusing to bow down to the commandments of Allah, causing a lot of hatred and bloodshed, save those whom Allah has guided aright.
We are told in the Quran, if we add a word to his words he will add years to our life in hell, if we subtract words from his words he will subtract years from our life on this earth. We must not add or subtract from his words under any guise, under the guise of "abusive husband, reality, ijtihad" or any other method.
Allah repeats this prohibition by advising us not to create laws, because for us to create laws, claiming them to be in any way shape or form coming from Allah, would mean we are either a partner of Allah, or a god in Allah's stead. Allah calls such activity shirk/association and advises is that the sin/crime of shirk will never be forgiven. We must, if we wish to enter jannat, not commit unforgiveable sins.
At this point in the debate, I think I have cited sufficient authority from the Quran revealed to us by Allah, to put to rest any further claim of need for human beings to make any improvement on Allah's perfect law. Allah's law is perfect because it neither requires any improvement, not does it require any reduction. It is perfect as Allah himself is perfect. It was perfect when revealed, it is perfect today, and it will be perfect on the day of judgment. Glory be to Allah, the most perfect.
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Salaam Elke. Your last post indicates a misunderstanding of my prior posts. Customarily word hadith has two usages. The first usage is the literal translation of the word hadith, which means story. The second usage is compilation of stories alleged to be of the life of Muhammad.
When I used the term "hadith from wahi" I am identifying a third usage. Since the word hadith means story, and the Quran contains some stories there is a third usage of hadith that are revealed to us by Allah in the Quran. These hadith are not from the fallible mouths of men, they are from infallible Allah. Because they are "revealed stories" or "hadith from wahi" I consider them to be the only hadith that are completely reliable.
I regard these hadith from wahi to be informative and a teaching tool, exactly as Allah has described. Why do I add this caveat? Because I wish to distinguish them from other wahi in the Quran, particularly the commands of Allah to which I submit. When Allah says, pray in the morning and recite the word at night, this is not a hadith, this is his commandment. When Allah says, have you not considered those who went forth from their homes, this is not a commandment, this is a reminder.
I am aware of the erroneous custom and practice amongst some muslims to utilize man made hadith as a source of their laws. This custom and practice is misguided on two counts. First they are produced by fallible men, no matter how well intentioned, and not protected by Allah, they are a very serious trap for the unwary. Second Allah does not use hadith as a source for law, this is wisdom and justice, we should not use hadith for this purpose either.
I, as one who submits, will use a commandment as mandatory controlling authority on the issue. A hadith from wahi is not a mandatory controlling authority, it is an informative advisory statement. Allah is the one who knows.
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Salam Samia. Al Baqarah 228 through 232 are controlling verses on the issue of talaq in the Quran. Please review them before reading my post, I do not wish to produce a huge post, for the purposes of brevity I will draw your attention to particular phrases.
The word hudood/limits is repeated again and again in these verses. Allah warns us of limits which we shall not exceed. Please recall exceeding the hudood/limits is the act of the disbeliever and subjects them to destruction.
The phrase, if a husband divorces his wife, and the phrase, when you divorce women is repeated again and again, clearly indicating with the term "izaa/if" that it is a discretionary decision of the husband, and indicating with the phrases "wa izaa talaqum nisaa/when you talaq women" that the woman is the one divorced.
Futher the phrase "by him in whose hands is the marriage tie" again confirms the marriage tie is in the hands of the husband.
Therefore, Allah has prescribed these limits, the nikah tie has been placed in the hands of the husband, talaq is a discretionary decision of the husband, and the one upon whom the talaq is issued is a woman.
Going to family courts is exceeding the limits interfering with the husbands rights. Exceeding the limits earns destruction.
These verses confirm the sharia of Musa/laws of Moses and the hadith of Esa/stories of Jesus, Allah is free from error, people are full or error. Allah did not substitute the sharia of Musa or the hadith of Esa with regard to talaq. Allah has repeated his commands here very very clearly. Allah is lawgiver, he is all knowing wise.
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I suppose this is where a loving father of one or more daughters must get his real thrills Will I have to kill the bastard finally, or will he leave her alone?
If we pursue al Ahraf stance, to push people to such situations as I describe above, there must be a some real good reason if, as he says, it is the Quran that says so.
So, please, Al ahraf, what is the exact, precise reason or reasons for this one sided disposition regarding divorce? God doesn't do something for nothing nor does He want us to be ignorant of it, so what is that powerful reason to put one person in such a dreadful disadvantage with respecto to another? -
Salam huruf. Thank you for exposing your violent nature by proposing murder. Do you think any rational person is well advised by someone who proposes murder, I think not. The fact that your mind jumped to proposing murder demonstrates you are ill equipped to debate rationally, and do not deserve a response. Worse still you propose interfering in another mans marriage for which Allah has prescribed death.
Your post is a complete mess. Ill try and disentangle some of the mess to see if there is a reasonable question.
Your claim that this is my stance is false. This is Allahs stance as stated by Allah in the Quran. The Quran does not say so, Allah says so. Do not make ascribe the verses of the Quran to me. Do not make false claims that the Quran speaks for the Quran. You have been given the word of Allah, only a shaitan would dispute.
I am not an associate of Allah. Allah protect me from the shaitan. I will not even dare to give you the reasons why Allah makes the laws. My job as a Muslim is to obey, and I will obey, I have submitted long ago to his will.
You are correct that Allah does everything for a good reason, however you are incorrect that he does not want us to be ignorant of the reason. Allah does keep us ignorant of the reasons many many times. You are incorrect that this is "a dreadful disadvantage" to use your inflammatory rhetoric. You are claiming that Allah is committing evil by such a "dreadful disadvantage" Allah advises us that he does only good, and man does evil. I quite clearly see the evil in your propositions of murder and your propositions that Allah has somehow done evil.
Allah is justice, knowing, wise.
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Peace,
Exceeding the limits earns destruction.
Salam huruf. Thank you for exposing your violent nature by proposing murder.
Who is exposing violent nature ?
Sorry el araf, but in my eyes you chose the easy way you take what you think you understand as the 100% truth and the rest is shaitan - are you muslim or manichean ?
elke
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Salaam Al-Araf
Thank you for your reply.
The verses speak of general financial obligations, whether be it during marriage or after divorce. "Itha tallaqtumul nisaa' if/when you divorce women" does not indicate that the husband has the permission to divorce by his will. If I say "he got his house back", this does not mean he took it by his own authority, but would mean by the authority of a judge and a long procedure.
A husband can not divorce his wife by his own will, but he has to go to a court. It's good you mention the principle of "huduud", because we have two "huduud" on reasons to go for a divorce, and in both cases, a judge, at least, has to rule for that, with either testimony from whoever wants to divorce or after arbitration. Men and women have equal rights in this. Verses 4 34, 4128 state the lowest hadd arrogant behaviour; and verse 247 the upper hudd adultry. If a husband cannot shoot his wife or shout at her (you're divorced), when seeing her with another man I do not know when he can. Unfortunately, what we see is some husbands divorcing their wives for a reason less than the lower limit, and all this because of the undertsanding that the man has the sole right to divorce his wife. This is supported by the so called Islamic law
In fact, a woman has a further right not given to the husband, to divorce, and that's when she has no reason or no proof. In this case, she may pay him compensation and leave the marriage 2229.
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Salam huruf. Thank you for exposing your violent nature by proposing murder. Do you think any rational person is well advised by someone who proposes murder, I think not. The fact that your mind jumped to proposing murder demonstrates you are ill equipped to debate rationally, and do not deserve a response. Worse still you propose interfering in another mans marriage for which Allah has prescribed death.
Your post is a complete mess. Ill try and disentangle some of the mess to see if there is a reasonable question.
Your claim that this is my stance is false. This is Allahs stance as stated by Allah in the Quran. The Quran does not say so, Allah says so. Do not make ascribe the verses of the Quran to me. Do not make false claims that the Quran speaks for the Quran. You have been given the word of Allah, only a shaitan would dispute.
I am not an associate of Allah. Allah protect me from the shaitan. I will not even dare to give you the reasons why Allah makes the laws. My job as a Muslim is to obey, and I will obey, I have submitted long ago to his will.
You are correct that Allah does everything for a good reason, however you are incorrect that he does not want us to be ignorant of the reason. Allah does keep us ignorant of the reasons many many times. You are incorrect that this is "a dreadful disadvantage" to use your inflammatory rhetoric. You are claiming that Allah is committing evil by such a "dreadful disadvantage" Allah advises us that he does only good, and man does evil. I quite clearly see the evil in your propositions of murder and your propositions that Allah has somehow done evil.
Allah is justice, knowing, wise.
The bottom line of your thoughts on this matter as you state it is that you think that God doesn't want us to know why he does things however shocking they may be and that you are also unable to think of any reason why according to you would dispose such things. Or do you in fact see any reason or sound purpose in it? I suppose that even if we are to assume that God doesn't give a reason, we are free and even welcome to think of it, aren't we? So, please, give such a reason or reasons or purposes if you cand think of any, but please keep to the point.
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There is no commandment in the Quran to use ijtihad. Therefore ijtihad is not prescribed by Allah.
This depends on what you understand by "ijtihad". Ijtihad is not an isolated action, but the product of thinking, reasoning and contemplating, which has been commanded by God in many verses. Otherwise, why would we think or contemplate if everything is black and white?
"You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them." 1736