Wifes rights conserning divorse
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Salam. Nikah is the joining of a man and a woman as zawj by Allah. There is no right of the wife concerning divorce. The right to divorce belongs to the husband, this has been repeated three times by Allah, in Shariat ul Musa, in Shariat ul Esa, and the Quran. The Quran repeats Shariat ul Musa and Shariat ul Esa, and it says, that what Allah has joined no man shall put asunder. The Quran permits only the husband to issue a talaq.
The restriction is so strict that the hadith of Ibraheem reports behold you are a dead man, for the woman you have taken, she is a mans wife. It matters not who tries to take a mans wife away from him, the wife herself, her father, her mother, or a judge, Allah has ordained death for that person.
Knowing that taking a wife away from her husband, has this punishment attached to the act, the wife is required to obtain a talaq from her husband first, then as a single woman she may leave. Allah requires a mandatory arbitration first. She must appoint her arbiter, the husband appoints his arbiter, the decison of the arbiters is binding on husband and wife. If the arbitration fails the wife may petition the husband for a talaq. The husband may perform a talaq within the required time period. I repeat the right of talaq is that of the husband, not of the wife, do not differ with Allah.
If a believing woman, wife of a man, takes herself away from her husband, or goes to a civil court to obtain a civil divorce, the wife has no talaq, and under Allahs law is still the zawj in the nikah. The answer to your question is, unless you obtain a talaq from your husband, following the procedure set out in the Quran, you are still his wife.
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salaam al araf,
that what Allah has joined no man shall put asunder
this sounds like catholicism but seems to be limited to the wife ;D
taking into account your position, do you at least believe that a man should let his wife go if she desires divorce or should he assume his role of prison warder till the bitter end ?
lk
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Salam Elke. The subject of talaq is a serious matter deserving of our respectful advice and debate. For this reason I respectfully refuse to engage in inflammatory language on the subject. The creed of Catholicism is in part derived from some of the laws Allah has prescribed for mankind.
In reply to your question, or at least the valid part of your question, excluding the provocative remarks like "prison warder" and "bitter end" Each nikah consists of the union of the zawj, who are unique individuals, with individual life histories, and circumstances. For example some zawj have children, some do not have children. Even more importantly there are disabled zawj who must be protected, and sometimes they lack the capacity to protect themselves.
As a general rule, assuming two normal individuals, I would defer to the language of the Quran, which states a husband may issue talaq. The use of the term "may" indicates it is a discretionary decision of the husband. If there was an intent on the part of Allah to tell a husband what he "should" do, Allah would have used the term "shall" In other words I prefer to go as far as Allah goes, no more, no less. Allah's words are wisdom and justice, I wish to remain in that wisdom and justice, I will not step outside those bounds.
Implicit in your question is a deeper search for Allah's wisdom. I believe Allah would permit me to say, that he has ordained hudood/limits on mankind in fairness and equity. According to Allah's hudood, fairness and equity comes from a balance of the rights and duties on mankind. In practice there is the duty of men to support women, and the right of women to receive support from men. Without counterbalancing rights for men, and duties on women, the limits would be inequitable.
I hope this will enable you to see the larger picture, that the totality of the rights and duties must be examined in order to reach a fair understanding of Allah's equity. To examine one right or duty in isolation, without examining its effects on the rest of the rights and duties would not allow a person to reach peace in their heart. With faith in the justice of Allah comes wisdom.
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Peace al araf
very good answer, but may be the problem is that i do see the larger picture, be it from the quranic side, as it should be, AND most of all practically, as it actually is translated into reality. I believe that , being that reality, and in search of justice and equity, some rules must sometimes be "transcended" and a woman needs to have the possibility of divorcing an abusive husband.
elke
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Salam Elke. I am a submitter to the Lord of the worlds. To walk in his light is my life. I will not walk in the light of any alleged "reality" that exceeds the hudood.
The concept of "an abusive zawj for which the retribution is a talaq" exceeds the hudood, and is not found in the Quran. Are you influenced by the practices of the mushriq? Because it is not found in the Quran I consider it a mushriq ideology and practice. May Allah protect me from the shaitan.
That said, Allah is justice itself, what does Allah prescribe for the situation you describe. You are either describing a verbally insult or physical assault. Allah prescribes an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, remember that it is better to be merciful and forgive. Allah therefore limits us to either verbally abuse back, return the physical assault, receive compensation for the harm, or forgive. These are the limits we are commanded not to exceed. Do not differ with Allah.
There are unusual situations in which a zawj has a mental illness which makes them prone to anger and violence. There is wahi containing hadith of such instances. Hagar the zaj of Abraham is recited to us as a reminder of an abusive zawj. I do not find any wahi of a Allah containing a hadith to talaq a zawj in the case of anger or violence. May Allah protect me from error.
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Peace al araf,
Allah therefore limits us to either verbally abuse back, return the physical assault, receive compensation for the harm, or forgive.
) Fortunately i'm very much into martial art - if not i'd have only forgive as an option, as most women have. Forgive how many times ? Where do we go from there ?
Never heard of ijtihad ? Sometimes, in order to respect the overall humanistic message of quran, one has to be open to other solutions - and i do not see it as the way of shaitan.
lk
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Salaam Elke. There is no commandment in the Quran to use ijtihad. Therefore ijtihad is not prescribed by Allah.
As a person who submitted myself to Allah, who submits to the hudood of Allah, I can neither exceed the hudood myself, or advise anyone else to exceed the hudood. I find many human beings prone to far too much pride, refusing to bow down to the commandments of Allah, causing a lot of hatred and bloodshed, save those whom Allah has guided aright.
We are told in the Quran, if we add a word to his words he will add years to our life in hell, if we subtract words from his words he will subtract years from our life on this earth. We must not add or subtract from his words under any guise, under the guise of "abusive husband, reality, ijtihad" or any other method.
Allah repeats this prohibition by advising us not to create laws, because for us to create laws, claiming them to be in any way shape or form coming from Allah, would mean we are either a partner of Allah, or a god in Allah's stead. Allah calls such activity shirk/association and advises is that the sin/crime of shirk will never be forgiven. We must, if we wish to enter jannat, not commit unforgiveable sins.
At this point in the debate, I think I have cited sufficient authority from the Quran revealed to us by Allah, to put to rest any further claim of need for human beings to make any improvement on Allah's perfect law. Allah's law is perfect because it neither requires any improvement, not does it require any reduction. It is perfect as Allah himself is perfect. It was perfect when revealed, it is perfect today, and it will be perfect on the day of judgment. Glory be to Allah, the most perfect.
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Salaam Elke. Your last post indicates a misunderstanding of my prior posts. Customarily word hadith has two usages. The first usage is the literal translation of the word hadith, which means story. The second usage is compilation of stories alleged to be of the life of Muhammad.
When I used the term "hadith from wahi" I am identifying a third usage. Since the word hadith means story, and the Quran contains some stories there is a third usage of hadith that are revealed to us by Allah in the Quran. These hadith are not from the fallible mouths of men, they are from infallible Allah. Because they are "revealed stories" or "hadith from wahi" I consider them to be the only hadith that are completely reliable.
I regard these hadith from wahi to be informative and a teaching tool, exactly as Allah has described. Why do I add this caveat? Because I wish to distinguish them from other wahi in the Quran, particularly the commands of Allah to which I submit. When Allah says, pray in the morning and recite the word at night, this is not a hadith, this is his commandment. When Allah says, have you not considered those who went forth from their homes, this is not a commandment, this is a reminder.
I am aware of the erroneous custom and practice amongst some muslims to utilize man made hadith as a source of their laws. This custom and practice is misguided on two counts. First they are produced by fallible men, no matter how well intentioned, and not protected by Allah, they are a very serious trap for the unwary. Second Allah does not use hadith as a source for law, this is wisdom and justice, we should not use hadith for this purpose either.
I, as one who submits, will use a commandment as mandatory controlling authority on the issue. A hadith from wahi is not a mandatory controlling authority, it is an informative advisory statement. Allah is the one who knows.
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Salam Samia. Al Baqarah 228 through 232 are controlling verses on the issue of talaq in the Quran. Please review them before reading my post, I do not wish to produce a huge post, for the purposes of brevity I will draw your attention to particular phrases.
The word hudood/limits is repeated again and again in these verses. Allah warns us of limits which we shall not exceed. Please recall exceeding the hudood/limits is the act of the disbeliever and subjects them to destruction.
The phrase, if a husband divorces his wife, and the phrase, when you divorce women is repeated again and again, clearly indicating with the term "izaa/if" that it is a discretionary decision of the husband, and indicating with the phrases "wa izaa talaqum nisaa/when you talaq women" that the woman is the one divorced.
Futher the phrase "by him in whose hands is the marriage tie" again confirms the marriage tie is in the hands of the husband.
Therefore, Allah has prescribed these limits, the nikah tie has been placed in the hands of the husband, talaq is a discretionary decision of the husband, and the one upon whom the talaq is issued is a woman.
Going to family courts is exceeding the limits interfering with the husbands rights. Exceeding the limits earns destruction.
These verses confirm the sharia of Musa/laws of Moses and the hadith of Esa/stories of Jesus, Allah is free from error, people are full or error. Allah did not substitute the sharia of Musa or the hadith of Esa with regard to talaq. Allah has repeated his commands here very very clearly. Allah is lawgiver, he is all knowing wise.
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I suppose this is where a loving father of one or more daughters must get his real thrills Will I have to kill the bastard finally, or will he leave her alone?
If we pursue al Ahraf stance, to push people to such situations as I describe above, there must be a some real good reason if, as he says, it is the Quran that says so.
So, please, Al ahraf, what is the exact, precise reason or reasons for this one sided disposition regarding divorce? God doesn't do something for nothing nor does He want us to be ignorant of it, so what is that powerful reason to put one person in such a dreadful disadvantage with respecto to another? -
Salam huruf. Thank you for exposing your violent nature by proposing murder. Do you think any rational person is well advised by someone who proposes murder, I think not. The fact that your mind jumped to proposing murder demonstrates you are ill equipped to debate rationally, and do not deserve a response. Worse still you propose interfering in another mans marriage for which Allah has prescribed death.
Your post is a complete mess. Ill try and disentangle some of the mess to see if there is a reasonable question.
Your claim that this is my stance is false. This is Allahs stance as stated by Allah in the Quran. The Quran does not say so, Allah says so. Do not make ascribe the verses of the Quran to me. Do not make false claims that the Quran speaks for the Quran. You have been given the word of Allah, only a shaitan would dispute.
I am not an associate of Allah. Allah protect me from the shaitan. I will not even dare to give you the reasons why Allah makes the laws. My job as a Muslim is to obey, and I will obey, I have submitted long ago to his will.
You are correct that Allah does everything for a good reason, however you are incorrect that he does not want us to be ignorant of the reason. Allah does keep us ignorant of the reasons many many times. You are incorrect that this is "a dreadful disadvantage" to use your inflammatory rhetoric. You are claiming that Allah is committing evil by such a "dreadful disadvantage" Allah advises us that he does only good, and man does evil. I quite clearly see the evil in your propositions of murder and your propositions that Allah has somehow done evil.
Allah is justice, knowing, wise.
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Peace,
Exceeding the limits earns destruction.
Salam huruf. Thank you for exposing your violent nature by proposing murder.
Who is exposing violent nature ?
Sorry el araf, but in my eyes you chose the easy way you take what you think you understand as the 100% truth and the rest is shaitan - are you muslim or manichean ?
elke
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Salaam Al-Araf
Thank you for your reply.
The verses speak of general financial obligations, whether be it during marriage or after divorce. "Itha tallaqtumul nisaa' if/when you divorce women" does not indicate that the husband has the permission to divorce by his will. If I say "he got his house back", this does not mean he took it by his own authority, but would mean by the authority of a judge and a long procedure.
A husband can not divorce his wife by his own will, but he has to go to a court. It's good you mention the principle of "huduud", because we have two "huduud" on reasons to go for a divorce, and in both cases, a judge, at least, has to rule for that, with either testimony from whoever wants to divorce or after arbitration. Men and women have equal rights in this. Verses 4 34, 4128 state the lowest hadd arrogant behaviour; and verse 247 the upper hudd adultry. If a husband cannot shoot his wife or shout at her (you're divorced), when seeing her with another man I do not know when he can. Unfortunately, what we see is some husbands divorcing their wives for a reason less than the lower limit, and all this because of the undertsanding that the man has the sole right to divorce his wife. This is supported by the so called Islamic law
In fact, a woman has a further right not given to the husband, to divorce, and that's when she has no reason or no proof. In this case, she may pay him compensation and leave the marriage 2229.
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Salam huruf. Thank you for exposing your violent nature by proposing murder. Do you think any rational person is well advised by someone who proposes murder, I think not. The fact that your mind jumped to proposing murder demonstrates you are ill equipped to debate rationally, and do not deserve a response. Worse still you propose interfering in another mans marriage for which Allah has prescribed death.
Your post is a complete mess. Ill try and disentangle some of the mess to see if there is a reasonable question.
Your claim that this is my stance is false. This is Allahs stance as stated by Allah in the Quran. The Quran does not say so, Allah says so. Do not make ascribe the verses of the Quran to me. Do not make false claims that the Quran speaks for the Quran. You have been given the word of Allah, only a shaitan would dispute.
I am not an associate of Allah. Allah protect me from the shaitan. I will not even dare to give you the reasons why Allah makes the laws. My job as a Muslim is to obey, and I will obey, I have submitted long ago to his will.
You are correct that Allah does everything for a good reason, however you are incorrect that he does not want us to be ignorant of the reason. Allah does keep us ignorant of the reasons many many times. You are incorrect that this is "a dreadful disadvantage" to use your inflammatory rhetoric. You are claiming that Allah is committing evil by such a "dreadful disadvantage" Allah advises us that he does only good, and man does evil. I quite clearly see the evil in your propositions of murder and your propositions that Allah has somehow done evil.
Allah is justice, knowing, wise.
The bottom line of your thoughts on this matter as you state it is that you think that God doesn't want us to know why he does things however shocking they may be and that you are also unable to think of any reason why according to you would dispose such things. Or do you in fact see any reason or sound purpose in it? I suppose that even if we are to assume that God doesn't give a reason, we are free and even welcome to think of it, aren't we? So, please, give such a reason or reasons or purposes if you cand think of any, but please keep to the point.
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There is no commandment in the Quran to use ijtihad. Therefore ijtihad is not prescribed by Allah.
This depends on what you understand by "ijtihad". Ijtihad is not an isolated action, but the product of thinking, reasoning and contemplating, which has been commanded by God in many verses. Otherwise, why would we think or contemplate if everything is black and white?
"You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them." 1736
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Salam Elke, Huruf, and Samia. I began my response earlier as a reply to Haneen, who is clearly a believer who is looking for what Allah hukum/command is for her in the matter of divorce/talaq.
As a result of my posting what Allah's hukum/command on the on talaq/divorce, I received queries as to the source verses, ijtihad, and Allahs reasons. I provided the source verses, with the exact language I had described, I demonstrated where ijtihad is prohibited invention, and why nobody should fail to submit to Allahs will on the basis that they personally dont see Allah's reason.
Instead of acknowledging that my post for Haneen is grounded in strict Quran language, with no addition or subtraction to the word of Allah, I see three people in whose hearts is not submission to Allahs word when recited to them, I see attempts to change the words of Allah. May allah protect me from the shaitan.
Allah commands me not to engage in dispute, and commands me to say to you, may Allah be the judge between us wherein we differ. Allah is knowing wise, I am a submitter to the Lord of the worlds.
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Some extracts from http//shams.za.org/Dialogueulama.htm
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"You assert that unilateral divorce has basis in the Qur?an and therefore cannot be reformed. You support your position with extracts from the Qur?an, and ask me to retract my statement within five days of receiving your fax or you will publish a ?public rebuttal?. You also say that my ?gross misrepresentation brings Islam and Muslims into disrepute?......
We would at the very outset like to say that we disagree with your promotion of unilateral and extra-judicial divorce. We are terribly disappointed that you pick out a few extracts from the Qur?an and on that basis decide on an issue and consider it to be the only possible conclusion. On reading only the verses about divorce in the Qur?an, many Muslim scholars arrive at conclusions different from yours. On reading the message of the Qur?an in its entirety we are left in no doubt that arbitrary divorce on the part of the husband conflicts with the spirit of shura, decency, dignity and justice.
We must recall that the Qur?an 1400 years ago challenged inhumane and unjust practices; in this challenge to unjust practices the Qur?an demonstrates that all systems (including your MPL) require muhasabah (evaluation) and adjustment periodically in order to continually reflect the principles of social justice and human equality.
Please allow me to explain our position We challenge the inhumane and unjust practices prevalent in MPL. We believe much of the practice needs to be reformed to bring it on par with the Islamic principles of justice, equality and freedom. We must go back to the Qur?an and formulate an MPL that is just. The problem, it seems, is that you are trying to implement an MPL code that was developed in the ninth century. The context was different and the assumptions on which the laws were based are very different. We were never meant to impose those laws on our context, rather, we are meant to apply the eternal, universal and Divine Qur?an to our context.
The practice of unilateral and extra-judicial divorce in our context goes against the grain of shura and decency. I will quote the translation of just two verses you omitted. (I have for your information included the translation of most of the verses on divorce in the Qur?an.) Please take note that we believe the Qur?an should apply in its entirety and that it is a gross misrepresentation to select extracts and on your interpretation of these, support your position.
And so, when they are about to reach the end of their waiting term, either retain them in a fair manner or part with them in a fair manner. And let two persons of (known) probity from among your community (i.e. persons who are acquainted with the circumstances of the case) witness; and do yourselves bear witness before God (that the decision has not been made in a frivolous manner); thus are admonished all who believe in God and the Last Day? (Qur?an 652)
And if you have reason to fear that a breach might occur between a (married) couple, appoint an arbitrator from among his people and an arbitrator from among her people; if they both want to set things aright, God may bring about their reconciliation? (Qur?an 435)
I would like to stress the Qur?anic message part with them in a fair manner; two witnesses, you yourself bear witness before God; appointment of arbitrators from both sides, setting things right if both want to. All this makes nonsense of the arbitrary divorce process prevalent and sanctioned by you, dear ?ulama.
One should be aware of the warning of the Qur?an ?Do you believe in part of the Book and reject another part?? The Muslim community is at liberty to ?listen to the statement and follow the better part of it,? (Qur?an 391.
Moreover, marriage ? we all agree ? is a contract between two people and therefore a legally binding agreement. If any one partner wants out there must be a proper process. I do not believe that any of you would allow your business partner to opt out of a contract between you without consulting you or going through some legal
''process. Isn?t there more reason for a proper process for dissolution of a marriage contract.""