Virgin Birth of Isa
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laugh Could be, ingrained in my sub conscious. Can you please change it to a pigeon, for example?
A pigeon.... Let me think about it? Maybe when you answer my Questions that asked before?
By the way, I'm a Marketer; part of my research was about brand Logo and its effect in Consumer buying behavior. -
A pigeon.... Let me think about it? Maybe when you answer my Questions that asked before?
What questions? Please refresh my memory. And the pigeon should better be stuffed.
By the way, I'm a Marketer; part of my research was about brand Logo and its effect in Consumer buying behavior.
It seems your logo did not have the anticipated effect. I am not "buying" your interpretation
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What questions? Please refresh my memory.
When understanding Quran Messages, should we use the Well-Established verses to understand the meaning of the non-well-established ones or no?
and if your answer is yes, why you are not following this rule?The other question, are you an arabic speaker ;D?
And the pigeon should better be stuffed.
Why? and Why Pigeon and not Eagle?
It seems your logo did not have the anticipated effect. I am not "buying" your interpretation
But you were intimidated.
Logo pictuers that make people buy interpretation of Religion are a way for Deceiving people; and I'm not here to deceive others, but to debate with any one who highjacks my Quran.By the way, Eagle is one of my favorite.
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When understanding Quran Messages, should we use the Well-Established verses to understand the meaning of the non-well-established ones or no?
and if your answer is yes, why you are not following this rule?Did you ask me this question before?
The other question, are you an arabic speaker ?
What do you think and why?
Why? and Why Pigeon and not Eagle?
Because I do not eat stuffed eagles
my Quran.
The qur'aan belongs to no one. It's for humankind.
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Did you ask me this question before?
I think I did. but if not, can you answer it?
What do you think and why?
I think you are. But sometimes when debating, I think you are not.
Because I do not eat stuffed eagles
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The qur'aan belongs to no one. It's for humankind.
Therefore, each one can say it is mine.
^^^ and its for eavesdropping Jinn
Peace,
Can you explain more -
There are some jinn who overhear the Qur'an and use it for guidance in their lives. They are unaware of what will happen to us and when but they know revelation has reached us. Read sura 72 all the way through.
Peace
You are 100% right, but I did not understand your first post.
The reason I say "my Quran", sometimes, is when the Quran is being attacked or highjacked, then I feel obligated to defend it as defending some thing I own.
Maybe, I should not say that, but I will try my best.
Peace -
When understanding Quran Messages, should we use the Well-Established verses to understand the meaning of the non-well-established ones or no?
and if your answer is yes, why you are not following this rule?Can you please give me an example f the well established verse that I am not following? Like this one, for example?
God says (865-6)
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Now let man but think from what he is created!
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He is created from a drop emitted-
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Can you please give me an example f the well established verse that I am not following? Like this one, for example?
Peace Samia,
As you know, God did not ignore clarifying the misunderstanding of Jesus birth.
Using well-established verses, God told us that Jesus was created as follow (please note the Arabic Bolded verses)Peace everybody
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(٦ (٧Behold! the angels said "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah. (45) "He shall speak to the people in childhood And in maturity and he shall be (of the company) of the righteous." (46) She said "O my Lord! how shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said "Even so Allah createth what He willeth; when He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it `Be', and it is! (3-47)
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O people of the Book! commit no excesses in your religion nor say of Allah aught but truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an Messenger of Allah and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a Spirit proceeding from Him so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not "Trinity" desist it will be better for you for Allah is One Allah glory be to him (for Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs. (171) Christ disdaineth not to serve and worship Allah, nor do the angels, those nearest (to Allah) those who disdain His worship and are arrogant He will gather them all together unto Himself to (answer). (4-172)
(٦ (٧ (٨ (٩ (٠ (١ (٢ (٣ (٤ (٥ (٦ (٧ (٨ (٩ (٠ (١ (٢ (٣ (٤ (٥
Relate in the Book (the story of) Mary, when she withdrew from her family to a place in the East. (16) She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them then We sent to her Our angel, and he appeared before her as a man in all respects. (17) She said "I seek refuge from thee to (Allah) Most Gracious (come not near) if thou dost fear Allah." (1 He said "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son." (19) She said "How shall I have a son, seeing that no man has touched me, and I am not unchaste?" (20) He said "So (it will be) thy Lord saith
That is easy for Me and (We wish) to appoint him as a Sign unto men and a Mercy from Us' it is a matter (so) decreed." (21) So she conceived him, and she retired with him to a remote place. (22) And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a palm-tree she cried (in her anguish) "Ah! would that I had died before this! Would that I had been a thing forgotten and out of sight!" (23) But (a voice) cried to her from beneath the (palm-free) "Grieve not! for thy Lord hath provided a rivulet beneath thee; (24) "And shake towards thyself the trunk of the palm-tree it will let fall fresh ripe dates upon thee. (25) "So eat and drink and cool (thine) eye. And if thou dost see any man sayI have vowed a fast to (Allah) Most Gracious, and this day will I enter into no talk with any human being.' " (26) At length she brought the (babe) to her people, carrying him (in her arms). they said "O Mary! truly an amazing thing hast thou brought! (27) "O sister of Aaron! thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste!" (2 But she pointed to the babe. They said "How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?" (29) He said "I am indeed a servant of Allah He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet; (30) "And He hath made me Blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live; (31) "(He) hath made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable; (32) "So Peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)"! (33) Such (was) Jesus the son of Mary (it is) a statement of truth, about which they (vainly) dispute. (34) It is not befitting to (the majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! When He determines a matter, He only says to it "Be", and it is. (19-35)(٢
And Mary the daughter of `Imran, who guarded her chastity; and We breathed into her (body) of Our spirit; and she testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His Revelations, and was one of the devout (Servants). (66-12)And, also God Did not ignore to clarify Who is Jesus and Mary, are they Gods or Humans, giving the facts about Mary pregnancy and Fatherless Jesus, using well-established verses
Salam all
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Al-Jinn (Chapter 72)
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the MercifulSay It has been revealed to me that a company of Jinns listened (to the Qur'an). They said
We have really heard a wonderful Recital! (72-1) It gives guidance to the Right, and we have believed therein We shall not join (in worship) any (gods) with our Lord. (2)And exalted is the Majesty of our Lord He has taken neither a wife nor a son. (3)There were some foolish ones among us, who used to utter extravagant lies against Allah; (4)But we do think that no man or spirit should say aught that is untrue against Allah. (5)That is the Message that Jinns understood, and believer should to. Mary is not Gods' wife, nor Jesus is his Son.
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And behold! Allah will say "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men,
worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah"? He will say "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, Thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden. (116) "Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say to wit,Worship Allah, my Lord, and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when Thou didst take me upThou wast the Watcher over them and Thou art a Witness to all things. (4-117)And that is what Jesus will say in JD, and what I believe
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O people of the Book! commit no excesses in your religion nor say of Allah aught but truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an Messenger of Allah and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a Spirit proceeding from Him so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not "Trinity" desist it will be better for you for Allah is One Allah glory be to him (for Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs. (171) Christ disdaineth not to serve and worship Allah, nor do the angels, those nearest (to Allah) those who disdain His worship and are arrogant He will gather them all together unto Himself to (answer). (4-172)
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In blasphemy indeed are those that say that Allah is Christ, the son of Mary. Say "Who then hath the least power against Allah, if His Will were to destroy Christ the son of Mary, his mother, and all everyone that is on the earth? For to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth and all that is between. He createth what He pleaseth. For Allah hath power over all things." (5-17)And that is how God wants us to pictuer Jesus, and that is what I believe, No More and No Less.
Jesus is the "WORD OF GOD", Jesus is "One of the Creatures that GOD GREATED". Jesus is "Abed ALLAH"
Peace
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Salaam Belal, all
God says (865-6)-
Now let man but think from what he is created!
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He is created from a drop emitted-
Jesus was not created from a drop of simen, therefore Jesus is not human
Salaam Samia (Pigeon Eater)
Adam was not too, and he was Human; and as you know, Adam was used, by God, as an example for Jesus Creation.
Peace
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Salaam Belal
Repeating verses twice or ten times does not change anything about their meaning. You can neither deduce from them that Jesus did not have a father, nor can I deduce from them that Jesus had a father. So, these are not well established verses, if this is what you mean by a "well established verse"
God says (865-6)
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Now let man but think from what he is created!
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He is created from a drop emitted-
The above is a statement, either true or false. If you add exceptions to it, you are rendering the original a "false statement".
But the statement is divine, and must be true. Therefore any addition to it or substraction from it is false.
This is what I call an established verse.
Unless you can deduce from it an (except Jesus and Adam) phrase. -
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Salaam Belal
Repeating verses twice or ten times does not change anything about their meaning.
Salam,
If we reflect upon our own experiance, we would remmber that our understanding of Quran came through reading the same verses hunderds of times.
Salaam Belal
You can neither deduce from them that Jesus did not have a father, nor can I deduce from them that Jesus had a father. So, these are not well established verses, if this is what you mean by a "well established verse"
verses 19-17 to 24 are very well-established story.
It shows that the Spirit came to Mary in a form of a Human Man (well-established, 19-17). She was affraid of him, and asked God for his protaction (well-established, 19-1. The Spirit told her that he is the Messanger of God who will give her a holly Son (well-established, verse 19-19). She replied "how can I have a Son when no Men have touched me (well-established, 19-20). He replied (the Spirit), "God says it is easy, and I shall make him a Sign for the people and Mercy, and that is a matter (so) decreed (well-established, 19-21).
So she conceived (at the same time the spirit was there, and not after getting Married) him, and she retired with him to a remote place (a well-established, 19-22). If you read verse 19-23, you will note that it says And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a palm-tree she cried (in her anguish) "Ah! would that I had died before this! Would that I had been a thing forgotten and out of sight!" (well-established, 19-24)If these are not Well-Established verses that shows Mary Getting Pregnent by a Blew from the Spirit (when you add the well-established verse 66-12), then...God be Mercy.
Please Tell Me and Others, WHERE CAN YOU FIT THE WORD FATHER IN THESE VERSES.
The above is a statement, either true or false. If you add exceptions to it, you are rendering the original a "false statement".
But the statement is divine, and must be true. Therefore any addition to it or substraction from it is false.
This is what I call an established verse.
Unless you can deduce from it an (except Jesus and Adam) phrase.God can make exceptions to statments he makes; and he did when showing Jesus and Adam Creations.
Moreover, Jesus is not like you or me or anybody else, he is "A Word Of God", "A Sign From God", "A Spirit From God", but still "God's Servant" "Abdol Allah", like us and Angels and Spirits and Prophets and every thing God Created--"God's Servants".)
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Peace
Bro Kyle had a idea that might explain all of this.
Peace be upon you Boost,
The God creates acording to Its pattern..and the God creates in "PAIRS". There is male and female in all things...yin and yang if you will. Do not shy away from wisdom for fear it is not what others have talked about before.The Divine feminine...how does one give birth and remain a virgin? Mental Creation!! Thats how ;D That which you put in your nafs(feminine)..your subconcious, you give birth to. You are what you think and imagine you are. Let God impregnate your spirit/nafs(feminine) and bring forth Its righteous character.
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Salaam Belal
Salam,
If we reflect upon our own experiance, we would remmber that our understanding of Quran came through reading the same verses hunderds of times.
OK
So she conceived (at the same time the spirit was there, and not after getting Married)
Is the highlighted part well established too?
If you read verse 19-23, you will note that it says And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a palm-tree she cried (in her anguish) "Ah! would that I had died before this! Would that I had been a thing forgotten and out of sight!" (well-established, 19-24)
Continue to the verses that follow "So he called her from underneath her don't be sad! God made a water running under you(24). And shake the stem of the palm tree and fresh dates will drop on you(25)
She said what she said, not out of shame, but out of pain and exhausion. The remedy/reply was to drink water and eat dates, not a good recipe for fear of shame.
No wonder men think that her pain was due to fear. They have not experienced labour pain when a mother literally says I wish I died before.If these are not Well-Established verses that shows Mary Getting Pregnent by a Blew from the Spirit (when you add the well-established verse 66-12), then...God be Mercy.
The spirit was also blown unto "bashar". Did that make the bashar pregnant?
Also, in the story of Mary, there are two verses about the spirit being blown unto "her" and unto "him". How many pregancies resulted from these two blews?Please Tell Me and Others, WHERE CAN YOU FIT THE WORD FATHER IN THESE VERSES.
Nor can you fit the word "fatherless". That's what I've already said.
God can make exceptions to statments he makes; and he did when showing Jesus and Adam Creations.
This exception is dduced by you, not mentioned by God. Please give me an example of God making exceptions to statements in the form of all X is Y, without explicitly showing immediately except. Otherwise, you are talking of contradictions in the quraan.
Of course if God wants to make contradictions and illogical statements, He can. If He wants to be unfair He can. But HE DOES NOT. Haven't you read many verses where God says that if He wished He would do such and such. Why wouldn't He? Because this is against the rules He set for Himself so that we may understand and live normally following these rules. He creates logic in us to understand, and He respects this logic so that we may be able to understand His message. Or, if you want, He programmed our intelligence in such a way as to understand the simple logic. Otherwise, the quraan is not easy to understand as claimed by God, as it will be full of contradictions, becuase you cannot understand what's beyond your human logic following the statetments set in the qur'aan as guidlines. -
circles. It's all subjective conclusions just like belief in God. One cannot persuade the other because there is no outlining text that says he had no father in that many words. God advises us against disputes about God once we have the Scripture. Happened to the Jews as well. I can understand debates and stating opinions but this is just going round and round and nothing is being drawn out for reflection.
Peace
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Please give me an example of God making exceptions to statements in the form of all X is Y, without explicitly showing immediately except. Otherwise, you are talking of contradictions in the quraan.
(80-24
(86-5(80-25
(86-6(80-26
(86-7Then chapter 80 continue as follow
( ( ( ( ( (As you can note, both, the verses in chapter 86 and 80, are being constructed the same way with the same arabic words.
The exceptions for Chapter 80, where God shows how human food being created by rain and soil, are human food that comes from Sea (shrimp or Fish), Animals (beef or Lamb), and Birds (Pigeon or Chichen for example).The exceptions for chapter 86 are Jesus (even God did not say he is Human like us, but "God's Word" "Spirit from God" "Sign of God", Adam, and Adam's Wife.
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Salaam BelalOK
So she conceived (at the same time the spirit was there, and not after getting Married)
Is the highlighted part well established too?(١ (٢
If you are an arabic speaker, you know when using the letter "Faa" with a verb would mean that the verb is the result of the action that being discribed by the word before it. Example, Moses Hit the Man and Killed Him (Moses Darab elragel FaaKatalho).
"and that is a matter (so) decreed" these were the words that the Spirit told Mary (The words before the use of Faa) at the end of 19-21 (The Red Arabic Words), "Faa-Hamlatho" is the porceeding word (Faa+Verb) that means "Mary getting Pregnant" (the first word in 19-22, in Green Color).
Therefore, my statment
(at the same time the spirit was there, and not after getting Married)
Is based on the well established verses; thus, its meaning is well established.Now, I believe that God ment that in order to show us that the Spirit that was talking to Mariam in the verses is the reason of making Mariam Pregnant. and that would answer your statment
Nor can you fit the word "fatherless".
Yes, God did. If you wish, believe or disbelieve.
The spirit was also blown unto "bashar". Did that make the bashar pregnant?
rotfl
Sis Samia, The Spirit does what God Wishes. The Blow accomplish what God Wants, any thing He Wants. Some time is used to make human Embyro alive, or To Make Adam alive, or to make the Brids that are made from Clay alive.
Or even to distroy the Whole Earth, if God Wishes. -
Hi there,
I would like to add an idea that proves the Quran is really talking about a virgin birth. I don't know if someone said this before or not.
1914 And dutiful to his parents, and never was he a tyrant or disobedient. -John
1932 And to be dutiful to my mother, and He did not make me a rebellious tyrant. -JesusCan I say checkmate? John had a father and a mother and was dutiful to both of them. Jesus can only be dutiful to his mother because he doesn't have a father! Unless you believe Jesus kicked his father's ass. laugh
Peace.
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Hi there,
I would like to add an idea that proves the Quran is really talking about a virgin birth. I don't know if someone said this before or not.
1914 And dutiful to his parents, and never was he a tyrant or disobedient. -John
1932 ?And to be dutiful to my mother, and He did not make me a rebellious tyrant.? -JesusCan I say checkmate? John had a father and a mother and was dutiful to both of them. Jesus can only be dutiful to his mother because he doesn't have a father! Unless you believe Jesus kicked his father's ass. laugh
Peace.
2810 "And the heart of Moses mother became empty. She almost disclosed the truth about him had We not strengthened her heart so that she might remain as one of the believers"
2813 "So did We return him to his mother that her eyes might be comforted and that she might not grieve and that she might know that the promise of God is true, but most of them do not know"
2040 "....and We returned you to your mother that she might comfort/cool her eyes and she should not grieve...."
The above verses are from the story of Moses, not Jesus. Didn't Moses have a father?