Who did Prophet Ibraham tried to sacrifice, Ismael or Isacc, according to Quran?
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Peace "arnab" and "belalhammad",
The reason why the one to be sacrificed has to be Ishmael is because Abraham had only two sons AND Isaac was BORN AFTER THE SACRIFICE EVENT ACCORDING TO QURAN. Here seeWe ransomed him by substituting an animal sacrifice.
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AND we gave him(Abraham) the good news about the birth of Isaac, to be one of the righteous prophets.GOD Bless!
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Yes, but there are places where I refer to the WHOLE OLD TESTAMENT and others just the five books of Torah. Besides what does it matter the story is in Genesis which is included no matter any of the above names used.
Sorry the "old testament" has no relevance whatsoever with the Qur'an. The Qur'an does not mention the Old Testament, it mentions the Torah. The Tanakh is NOT the same thing. And you must remember the current Torah is not the ORIGINAL Torah.
I'm not ignoring you. No, God does not forget. But I already went in depth with this explaination.
Use Slaughter or sacrafice. IT is the same thing. Why do I say that? Because a slaughter is to kill something. Does this apply? YES
A sacrafice is a killing for God. Does this apply? YES
Abraham recieved a vision from God as to what to slaughter.No! They are very different things. Sacrifice is a killing to appease a GOD, a pagan idea still prevalent in modern day religions including Christianity. Slaughter is killing something (usually cases with animals, but can be used elsewhere). But where does it say SACRIFICE is used to appease God in the Qur'an? Nowhere. This is what it says
It is not their meat nor their blood, that reaches Allah it is your piety that reaches Him He has thus made them subject to you, that ye may glorify Allah for His Guidance to you and proclaim the good news to all who do right.
2237I repeat there is nothing in the Qur'an that tells us to sacrifice anything for Him. There is nothing in the Qur'an to tell us to kill our children under ANY circumstances whether it is sacrifice or slaughter...therefore the vision could not have come from God. Not that God does not give visions, but God only gives guidance to those who believe. He does not lead astray those who believe.
What is the problem with the word sacrafice? Use the word Kill/slaughter instead. It is the same meaning.
here is the definition of sacrifice
1 an act of offering to a deity something precious; especially the killing of a victim on an altar
2 something offered in sacrifice
3 a destruction or surrender of something for the sake of something else
b something given up or lost <the sacrifices made by parents>I'm not saying that to sacrifice a child is a guidance towards light. Don't be ridiculous. I already explained that it was A TEST given specifically to ABRAHAM.
And I'm saying tests come from everywhere in life. Tests can come from different paths The devil, our friends, family, enemies, but they all ultimately come from God. The point I'm trying to make if you understood rhetoric is that God indeed would not tell him to slaughter his child for any reason because he only gives Guidance to the believers. It was indeed a test I'm not denying that, but the VISION was not from God. That is not the same thing. Our whole lives are tests from God so what is your point? Nowhere in sura 37 does it say Abraham gained vision from God to test him. Because it is something evil (killing a child) and a misguidance, it cannot be from God(who does not change his ways 2237), not EVEN for the sake of a test. The test came from God as do all things, in that he gained a vision from another source and was following it. It is feasible that the devil gave him the vision as a test from God, because the nature of Shaytans is misgudance.
So, now you are asking me to explain to you why different translators, whom I have never met are translating the word differently? How in the world can I answer that?
You can't answer it because there are different interpretations. Sacrifice and slaughter are NOT, the same thing. But some translators chose to use SACRIFICE and some chose to use SLAUGHTER. Now despite how you think they are the same thing, they completely change the idea behind the parable. There would be no replacement with a "momentous sacrifice" if there was no sacrifice in the first place. And indeed there is no necessity for sacrifice anywhere in the Qur'an (in terms of flesh and blood and death)
Of course Abraham was just flesh and blood. I'm not trying to say otherwise.
God Praises Abraham continuously and does not tell us that he was lead astray.....Quite the opposite.
Not the point I was making. Abraham was a MAN who could have dreams like anyone else. Which means the devil could tempt him like anyone else. But only the disobedient/non-believing MAN will be lead astray by temptations. God will KEEP the obedient ones. This is why God intervened, because he saw Abraham was succumbing to temptation of the vision he misinterpreted as being from God and saved him and his son. He later says he makes him an example for later generations to follow and Peace be upon Abraham.
God was testing Abraham. He was not commanding evil. This was not incorrect guidance it was a test. brickwall
I am absolutely NOT saying that God is changing his ways and commanding evil. NOT AT ALL.
it was a test given to Abraham. This is clear.
Yea! I'm not saying it was not a test. wow But you are saying that God is changing his ways because you are saying God gave Abraham a vision to do wrong (killing an innocent, child). But God would have never given this vision in the first place, because God does not misguide or wrong people's souls. Therefore the test indeed was from God as is ALL things, but the vision was not from God because it is not in the nature of God (described in the Qur'an not how I describe him) to do such things. I gave you the aya that God never changes his ways. That is like God telling ADAM to eat from the TREE then stopping him when he was just about to. NO. God said, do not eat from this tree. He only gives Guidance to creatures, humans can be tempted (as was Adam). It does not mean Abraham was weak, or he was evil, or he was full of error. I believe God is showing us in this parable how Abraham made a mistake like Muhammad 6 times throughout the Qur'an. He even chastises Abraham for wishing forgiveness and peace on his Idolating father! We learn from mistakes just as much maybe even more than from excelling in something, which is why God includes Muhammad's mistakes. From Abraham's test we learn as modern day believers that visions we make think are from God may be misleading because they go against the true guidance that is in the Qur'an.
Then you disbelieve in all the verses that say to follow the Torah. Fine. You've said that.
But, you are not even believing in the Quran when IT CLEARLY says these things
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Abraham recieved a VISION to slaughter his son (and visions are from Allah)
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That it was a TEST from ALLAH
Salam,
ArnabCalm down, I never said the Torah is not guidance and that it should be denied. But you cannot deny that the Torah has been changed after it was destroyed. Let's see what the Qur'an says about the Torah
He hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture with truth, confirming that which was (revealed) before it, even as He revealed the Torah and the Gospel.
33O People of the Scripture! Why will ye argue about Abraham, when the Torah and the Gospel were not revealed till after him? Have ye then no sense?
365And (I come) confirming that which was before me of the Torah, and to make lawful some of that which was forbidden unto you. I come unto you with a sign from your Lord, so keep your duty to Allah and obey me.
350Say O People of the Scripture! Ye have naught (of guidance) till ye observe the Torah and the Gospel and that which was revealed unto you from your Lord. That which is revealed unto thee (Muhammad) from thy Lord is certain to increase the contumacy and disbelief of many of them. But grieve not for the disbelieving folk.
568The Qur'an which is alleged to be free from all error. A claim that is boldly stated in it. If we believe in it, we believe in this statement also. Error cannot assail it from any angle. It is sent as a CONFIRMATION of the Torah before it. Therefore whatever is in the current Torah that is truthful will be in the Qur'an, which is the differentiator. As a result The Qur'an is the primary source now for all Abrahamic religions. Of course you would read the Torah, there is no error in doing so. But the Qur'an will tell you what is truthful when reading the Torah, and what has crept in as error.
Do not claim I am not believing in the Qur'an when I am studying it, you have no leg to stand on uttering that. When all you can say is "it is a test" repeatedly. You put in brackets (and visions are from Allah), yes they ARE as are revelations/scriptures/religious books. But how many religious books are there in the world claiming to be from God? What about the Mormon Bible, The Scientology books, the ancient heiroglyphics on Egyptian monuments? They claim to be from God or a higher power and many people indeed believe so, and we know that God does indeed give knowledge, scripture and religious guidance. So using your logic these must be from God as well. You would say of course not! But then how do we truly discern what is from God and what is not. We know the nature of God in terms of HOW he guides and who he guides and that he never changes his ways e.g. suggests evil deeds for the sake of a dream. From there we can differentiate truth from falsehood.
God does indeed reveal through visions, but just because Abraham gained a vision does not mean it is from GOD, especially when we know the Nature of God in the context of the Qur'an and there is nothing explictly stating the vision is from GOD.
Peace
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Simple....thats ridiculous.
Salam,
ArnabBr things are ridiculous when they are hard to believe due to our previous set beliefs.
An example might be;
Does the stick change into sake in the quran? No it doesn't and neither does it in reality.
The proves are there for us to see- but we must be keen and open minded , for you can't add any more to a cup that is already full - Br we must empty our selves to see clearly or the previous beliefs will all ways hinder our search.
But never mind if it's not interesting.
peace -
Peace "ayman", "arnab", "belalhammad" and all code-19 rejecters,
See as i told you here http//www.answering-islam.org/PQ/ch9b-index.html#ch9b you can see a definite change in meaning due to the alteration of two letters. Perhaps now youll wakeup and see that the mushaf or book in which the Quran is claimed to be written IS NOT PRESERVED. So again the only way to know the true Quran in the first place is a numerical structure. GOD Bless! -
I have to acknowledge that many times I just do not understand what simple is saying or trying to say, and hear propositions are such muddle for me that I don't know fromw here to pull to untangle them. However in this case, I agree with her that God never asked Ibrahim to kill any of his sons. It was a dream, for a purpose, but we are failing to interpret the dream if we think that God did ask Ibrahim to do such thing. The whole story may have a symbolical meaning or it was meant to be a trial to show Ibrahim for good that sacrificing a son is not what God wants, but rather sacrificing our ego...
Please, Arnab, if you can refute simple, do so, because I really do not see that what she says is ridiculous.
Salaam all and thanks for the exchange
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Peace "arnab" and "belalhammad",
The reason why the one to be sacrificed has to be Ishmael is because Abraham had only two sons AND Isaac was BORN AFTER THE SACRIFICE EVENT ACCORDING TO QURAN. Here seeWe ransomed him by substituting an animal sacrifice.
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AND we gave him(Abraham) the good news about the birth of Isaac, to be one of the righteous prophets.GOD Bless!
Salam,
It does not say BIRTH OF in Arabic. Therefore this is incorrect.
Salam,
Arnab -
Peace "arnab",
When we say "and we gave him GOOD NEWS of isaac(wa BASHARNAAHU BI ISHAAQ)" it implies his birth as per the phrase. How do you understand that verse? 2ndly i also agree with simple that GOD did not inspire Abraham with a dream to sacrifice his own son for OD does not command vice. It makes no sense to test someone by making him do something which is illegal on the highest degree just to test whether they love you. E.g. a farther who always taught his son not to steal would not be righteous if he one day asked his son to steal just in order to test how much he loves him. Hence the traditional understanding in which GOD asks Abraham to sacrifice his own son is nonsensible to say the least. GOD Bless! -
Sorry the "old testament" has no relevance whatsoever with the Qur'an. The Qur'an does not mention the Old Testament, it mentions the Torah. The Tanakh is NOT the same thing. And you must remember the current Torah is not the ORIGINAL Torah.
You are getting confused with the terminology. And we disagree in regards to the original Torah.
I repeat there is nothing in the Qur'an that tells us to sacrifice anything for Him.
You're wrong
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And when Musa said to his people Surely Allah commands you that you should sacrifice a cow; they said Do you ridicule us? He said I seek the protection of Allah from being one of the ignorant.
I REPEAT ALLAH COMMANDS THAT YOU SHOULD SLAUGHTER/SACRIFICE BAQARAH
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Musa said He says, Surely she is a cow not made submissive that she should plough the land, nor does she irrigate the tilth; sound, without a blemish in her. They said Now you have brought the truth; so they sacrificed her, though they had not the mind to do (it).
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And relate to them the story of the two sons of Adam with truth when they both offered an offering, but it was accepted from one of them and was not accepted from the other. He said I I will most certainly slay you. (The other) said Allah only accepts from those who guard (against evil).
You can't answer it because there are different interpretations. Sacrifice and slaughter are NOT, the same thing.
We disagree on this. When you slaughter something in the name of GOD then it is sacrifice!
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Forbidden to you is that which dies of itself, and blood, and flesh of swine, and that on which any other name than that of Allah has been invoked, and the strangled (animal) and that beaten to death, and that killed by a fall and that killed by being smitten with the horn, and that which wild beasts have eaten, except what you slaughter, and what is sacrificed on stones set up (for idols) and that you divide by the arrows; that is a transgression. This day have those who disbelieve despaired of your religion, so fear them not, and fear Me. This day have I perfected for you your religion and completed My favor on you and chosen for you Islam as a religion; but whoever is compelled by hunger, not inclining willfully to sin, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
When you slaughter something in the name of GOD then it is sacrifice!
Which is why it is so important that we don't mention any other name besides ALLAH. We don't sacrifice to idols etc. This is repeated in the Quran often.
Not the point I was making. Abraham was a MAN who could have dreams like anyone else. Which means the devil could tempt him like anyone else. But only the disobedient/non-believing MAN will be lead astray by temptations. God will KEEP the obedient ones. This is why God intervened, because he saw Abraham was succumbing to temptation of the vision he misinterpreted as being from God and saved him and his son. He later says he makes him an example for later generations to follow and Peace be upon Abraham.
No.
Yea! I'm not saying it was not a test. wow But you are saying that God is changing his ways because you are saying God gave Abraham a vision to do wrong (killing an innocent, child).
I am not saying that God is changing his ways. How absurd.
But God would have never given this vision in the first place, because God does not misguide or wrong people's souls. Therefore the test indeed was from God as is ALL things, but the vision was not from God because it is not in the nature of God (described in the Qur'an not how I describe him) to do such things. I gave you the aya that God never changes his ways. That is like God telling ADAM to eat from the TREE then stopping him when he was just about to. NO. God said, do not eat from this tree. He only gives Guidance to creatures, humans can be tempted (as was Adam). It does not mean Abraham was weak, or he was evil, or he was full of error. I believe God is showing us in this parable how Abraham made a mistake like Muhammad 6 times throughout the Qur'an. He even chastises Abraham for wishing forgiveness and peace on his Idolating father! We learn from mistakes just as much maybe even more than from excelling in something, which is why God includes Muhammad's mistakes. From Abraham's test we learn as modern day believers that visions we make think are from God may be misleading because they go against the true guidance that is in the Qur'an.
Please don't think that I misunderstand you. I understand you perfectly. But I disagree with you.
The Qur'an which is alleged to be free from all error. A claim that is boldly stated in it. If we believe in it, we believe in this statement also. Error cannot assail it from any angle. It is sent as a CONFIRMATION of the Torah before it. Therefore whatever is in the current Torah that is truthful will be in the Qur'an, which is the differentiator. As a result The Qur'an is the primary source now for all Abrahamic religions. Of course you would read the Torah, there is no error in doing so. But the Qur'an will tell you what is truthful when reading the Torah, and what has crept in as error.
Again, I understand your position but I disagree with you. The confirmation of the Torah means....to AFFIRM that it is still with us.
IF someone confirms a thing. That means they are saying YES THATS IT!
Confirm
1 to give approval to ratify <confirm a treaty>
2 to make firm or firmer strengthen <confirm one's resolve>
3 to administer the rite of confirmation to
4 to give new assurance of the validity of remove doubt about by authoritative act or indisputable fact <confirm a rumor>Plus there are a multitude of verses saying such things as YOU FOLLOW NO GOOD UNTIL YOU UPHOLD THE TORAH AND INJEEL.
So, I disagree on your position based on QURAN.
But how many religious books are there in the world claiming to be from God? What about the Mormon Bible, The Scientology books, the ancient heiroglyphics on Egyptian monuments? They claim to be from God or a higher power and many people indeed believe so, and we know that God does indeed give knowledge, scripture and religious guidance. So using your logic these must be from God as well. You would say of course not! But then how do we truly discern what is from God and what is not. We know the nature of God in terms of HOW he guides and who he guides and that he never changes his ways e.g. suggests evil deeds for the sake of a dream. From there we can differentiate truth from falsehood.
Does the QURAN say to follow those pagan books? NO nope
Does it say that YOU FOLLOW NO GOOD UNTIL YOU UPHOLD THE TORAH AND INJEEL? YES yes
Salam,
Arnab -
Peace "arnab",
When we say "and we gave him GOOD NEWS of isaac(wa BASHARNAAHU BI ISHAAQ)" it implies his birth as per the phrase.That is incorrect. The root bashar is used many times in the Quran and it does not specifically mean birth. In fact, it most commonly means good news/announcement etc.
How do you understand that verse?
The good news/announcement is Isaac as a prophet as the following words affirm this.
Salam,
Arnab -
Peace
Arnab the times you mention sacrifice in the Qur'an can easily be slaugher. For me it makes more sense to use slaughter because God tells us that sacrifice is irrelevant (2237). We will have to agree to disagree on this.
Regarding my final point I think you misunderstood. I am saying many books claim to be from God. But we believe the Qur'an is from God, therefore we use the Criterion sent to us from the Almighty, to discern what is right from wrong. Therefore we know that some books cannot have come from God because of the nature of it as well as the guidance within it. We can apply this to the vision. That it could not have come from God because it is not in God's nature to give a vision like this, even for the sake of a test. I agree to follow what is said in the Torah and the Injeel indeed. But I am more skeptical about reading what is claimed to be the Taurat and the Injeel in this present day. Peace be upon you, may we all grow in knowledge, all knowledge is with God.
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But the Previous scripture is not Abrogated or Forgotten.....apparently, though, it seems to be ignored.
Salam,
ArnabSalaam,
I agree absolutely! I had discussions with many who only believe in the Qur'an, that you cannot reject the previous scriptures.
Once a Christian missionary came to my door, I explained that we believe in the Bible and Torah and I accepted Bible with respect. They were mystified with my reply and we had a long discussion. At the end of the discussion one of them asked me to give her a copy of the Qur?an.
But I must admit I never got the chance to learn properly I felt that the Psalms were quite close to what is in Qur?an, but the Pauline version of the New Testament was beyond me. I now feel lucky to be able to learn more about it from the posts here.
Please could you explain this?
aAs I understand it, according to the previous scriptures, Eve was held responsible for causing Adam to sin, a crime of which she is cleared in the Qur?an. So is it things like that referred to in 2106?
bIf Issac was the Son in this test then, as I understand it , the sacrifice was to be performed in the Dome of the Rock, whereas animal sacrifice during Hajj in commemoration of his near sacrifice isdone in a different place.
c Also; do you maintain that all of the Torah is authentic, including the book of Moses that refers to his death?
There is a lot of distortion going on so we need plenty of references from the previous scriptures to straighten things out in order to unite the peoples of the books.peace
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Peace All
Peace
That it could not have come from God because it is not in God's nature to give a vision like this, even for the sake of a test.
Yes He Can
( ( (
Then they proceeded until, when they met a Child, he killed him. Moses said "Hast thou slain an innocent person who had slain none? Truly a foul thing hast thou done!" (74) He answered "Did I not tell thee that thou canst have no patience with me?" (18-75)
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"As for the Child, his parents were people of Faith, and we feared that he would grieve them by obstinate rebellion and ingratitude (to Allah and man). (80) "So we desired that their Lord would give them in exchange (a son) better in purity (of conduct) and closer in affection. (18-81)
Moreover, all believers have to understand that God will not accept our Submission (Complete one) to him unless we Believe in His Book (one Book)that are represented by Quran, Torah, and Bible (in there original language); and if God knew that these books will be corrupted, He would had never asked us to Believe on them. TRUST YOUR LORD, and never underestimate his ORDER.
Peace All
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Salaam,
I agree absolutely! I had discussions with many who only believe in the Qur'an, that you cannot reject the previous scriptures.
Once a Christian missionary came to my door, I explained that we believe in the Bible and Torah and I accepted Bible with respect. They were mystified with my reply and we had a long discussion. At the end of the discussion one of them asked me to give her a copy of the Qur?an.
But I must admit I never got the chance to learn properly I felt that the Psalms were quite close to what is in Qur?an, but the Pauline version of the New Testament was beyond me. I now feel lucky to be able to learn more about it from the posts here.Salam,
Thank you.
Paul was an absolutely delusional man who did not understand what he read.
He misunderstood scripture and Isa and then invented lies about what he misunderstood.
Most of what he claims cannot be found in scripture.
I suggest disregarding his nonsense.The only thing to be considered scripture in the NT are Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.
Remember these are narratives, read like a story so that you understand the setting.
There are examples of what people were doing at the time and the traditions of the time.
This does not mean that they are impositions or commandments upon us.Also, when Isa speaks he repeatedly says it is in parables.
The problem most people come upon is that they take his words literally.
This leads to misunderstandings. (This is as true now as it was then)This statement does not apply to his performing miracles (of course we know he performed many miracles the Quran confirms this) what I am saying is he used figurative language in order to help people understand the laws.
Please could you explain this?
aAs I understand it, according to the previous scriptures, Eve was held responsible for causing Adam to sin, a crime of which she is cleared in the Qur?an. So is it things like that referred to in 2106?This is a misconception. The Torah does not blame "Eve" for the expulsion from jannah. Both ha-ishah and adam were punished and held accountable for their disobedience. The blame on "Eve" comes from Paul. No doubt, due to his obvious hatred of women and his inability to accurately read and evaluate scripture.
bIf Issac was the Son in this test then, as I understand it , the sacrifice was to be performed in the Dome of the Rock, whereas animal sacrifice during Hajj in commemoration of his near sacrifice isdone in a different place.
At this time I have not studied this in depth. But my current understanding is that Jerusalem is where the pilgrimage should take place so the invention of the pilgrimage taking place elsewhere is the cause of the discord.
c Also; do you maintain that all of the Torah is authentic, including the book of Moses that refers to his death?
There is a lot of distortion going on so we need plenty of references from the previous scriptures to straighten things out in order to unite the peoples of the books.Yes, the Torah is written as a narrative detailing events of the time with the commandments of God and why the commandments were enjoined.
The style is different from the Quran.What one must understand is that just because you read Person A did this and thus it does not mean that this is a commandment.
It simply means....that the person did what is recorded.The commandments are clearly stated and are preceded with a statement such as "And The Lord said to Moses....say to Beni Isreal...." and then a commandment is given.
Salam,
Arnab -
Yes, the Torah is written as a narrative detailing events of the time with the commandments of God and why the commandments were enjoined.
The style is different from the Quran.What one must understand is that just because you read Person A did this and thus it does not mean that this is a commandment.
It simply means....that the person did what is recorded.The commandments are clearly stated and are preceded with a statement such as "And The Lord said to Moses....say to Beni Isreal...." and then a commandment is given.
Salam,
ArnabThat is what I keep saying over and over and why the bible in whole or in its parts is not like the Quran. The Quran is the whole of it the word of God, whereas in the books of the bible at most there are some quotations of the words of God. Whether they are faithful or not is another question, and at any rate anything said in the bible cannot be taken as if it was God's statement, be it as advice as mere statement of fact, as injonction, as warning or whatever. It is religious or historical literature, but not the word of God, just as other religious or historic literature, and the quality cannot be exempt from judgement.
As to 3isa parables, I recomend them wholeheartedly and without reservation to everybody. They are indeed accurate, exact, entlightening, uncompromising, sincere and easy to grasp. There is no word too much in them.
Salaam
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Peace everyone,
Moreover, all believers have to understand that God will not accept our Submission (Complete one) to him unless we Believe in His Book (one Book)that are represented by Quran, Torah, and Bible (in there original language); and if God knew that these books will be corrupted, He would had never asked us to Believe on them. TRUST YOUR LORD, and never underestimate his ORDER.
Question is which...
http//www.earlychristianwritings.com/
http//www.earlyjewishwritings.com/
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And We prescribed to them in it that life is for life, and eye for eye, and nose for nose, and ear for ear, and tooth for tooth, and (that there is) reprisal in wounds; but he who foregoes it, it shall be an expiation for him; and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the unjust.Where?s the forgiveness via charity part in exodus?
http//yltbible.com/exodus/21.htm
23 and if there is mischief, then thou hast given life for life,
24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
25 burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.Also, what exactly is happening in this verse -- what are they doing?
7103 Falamma aslama watallahu liljabeeni
So when they submitted and he pulled/pushed/followed him to the foreheads. -
Peace "arnab",
That is incorrect. The root bashar is used many times in the Quran and it does not specifically mean birth. In fact, it most commonly means good news/announcement etc.
The good news/announcement is Isaac as a prophet as the following words affirm this.
Salam,
ArnabJK- When theres an arabic statement like "we give you(referring to one of the parents) good news of x" it must be talking about birth. Heres another verse which makes this clear
His wife was standing, and she laughed when we gave her the good news about Isaac, and after Isaac, Jacob.
GOD Bless! -
This is a misconception. The Torah does not blame "Eve" for the expulsion from jannah. Both ha-ishah and adam were punished and held accountable for their disobedience. The blame on "Eve" comes from Paul. No doubt, due to his obvious hatred of women and his inability to accurately read and evaluate scripture.
Salam,
ArnabSalaam,
If the blame on Eve comes from Paul then how come Orthodox Jews, who do not follow Paul and are well versed in the Hebrew Torah, consider women?s hair a danger to men?s purity and for that reason shave the bride?s hair on her wedding day, as a safegurd for the man from being seduced by her hair.
I believe that the Qur?an corrects this misconception, as it points out in 20121... did ADAM disobey his Lord, and allow himself to be seduced.
And that both were at fault.Best regards
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That is what I keep saying over and over and why the bible in whole or in its parts is not like the Quran. The Quran is the whole of it the word of God, whereas in the books of the bible at most there are some quotations of the words of God. Whether they are faithful or not is another question, and at any rate anything said in the bible cannot be taken as if it was God's statement, be it as advice as mere statement of fact, as injonction, as warning or whatever. It is religious or historical literature, but not the word of God, just as other religious or historic literature, and the quality cannot be exempt from judgement.
Perhaps our difference arises in the fact that I believe the historical accounts to be accurate and truthful in the Torah. We have these historical accounts in order to understand the who/what/when/how/why of commandments and injunctions and the Quran refers to them repeatedly.
The Quran has the same stories although they are summarized in order to make a point, clarify or some simliar reason.
It is not exclusively full of commandments and ordinances. It does not read like a dry law book without examples.There are also many verses in the Quran, where we are told what the hypocrites say or said, or what the disbelievers will say or said. These are not commandments by God on how to act.
So, just as the Quran contains these stories and examples so does the Torah. The difference would be that the Torah is more detailed. The Quran assumes you already know the stories and its goal is to remind/clarify/or something similiar.
As to 3isa parables, I recomend them wholeheartedly and without reservation to everybody. They are indeed accurate, exact, entlightening, uncompromising, sincere and easy to grasp. There is no word too much in them.
handshake peace
Salam,
Arnab -
Peace "arnab",
So, just as the Quran contains these stories and examples so does the Torah. The difference would be that the Torah is more detailed. The Quran assumes you already know the stories and its goal is to remind/clarify/or something similiar.
JK- So then sectarian "muslims" are right in saying that the stoning punishment for adulterers, which is mentioned in the OT "torah" should be taken as a continuation of the law of Moses. Your opening a very dangerous gate here since this is exactly what those "mullahs" say. Also please consider my posts in the other thread where i pointed out many absurd and violent Biblical verses.
Prohibited for you are animals that die of themselves, blood, the meat of pigs,* and animals dedicated to other than GOD. (Animals that die of themselves include those) strangled, struck with an object, fallen from a height, gored, attacked by a wild animal - unless you save your animal before it dies - and animals sacrificed on altars. Also prohibited is dividing the meat through a game of chance; this is an abomination. Today, the disbelievers have given up concerning (the eradication of) your religion; do not fear them and fear Me instead. Today, I have completed your religion, perfected My blessing upon you, and I have decreed Submission as the religion for you. If one is forced by famine (to eat prohibited food), without being deliberately sinful, then GOD is Forgiver, Merciful.
Thus the Quran contains the final and complete law of GOD and is an inspired compilation of all relevant parts of previous scriptures in itself. GOD Bless!
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Peace everyone,
Question is which...
http//www.earlychristianwritings.com/
http//www.earlyjewishwritings.com/
Salam,
I would say The Torah, the Writings, The Prophets=Tanakh/Old Testament, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.
I have yet to explore the Apocrypha, in order to come to a conclusion.
I am curious about the Gospel of Thomas, but have not been able to explore it.
The curiosity arises from the fact that the story of Isa blowing into the clay birds is found in the Gospel of Thomas and that story is also in the Quran.Where?s the forgiveness via charity part in exodus?
http//yltbible.com/exodus/21.htm
23 and if there is mischief, then thou hast given life for life,
24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
25 burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.These are verdicts/sentences/penalties. We are told the same thing in the Quran. These are the outermost verdicts that we are allowed to use in a matter.
543
Surely We revealed the Taurat in which was guidance and light; with it the prophets who submitted themselves (to Allah) judged (matters) for those who were Jews, and the masters of Divine knowledge and the doctors, because they were required to guard (part) of the Book of Allah, and they were witnesses thereof; therefore fear not the people and fear Me, and do not take a small price for My communications; and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the unbelievers.
545
And We prescribed to them in it that life is for life, and eye for eye, and nose for nose, and ear for ear, and tooth for tooth, and (that there is) reprisal in wounds; but he who foregoes it, it shall be an expiation for him; and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the unjust.
The Quran acknowledges those are the judgments that were outlined in the Torah. Just because those are allowed in an extreme case, IT does not mean that YOU HAVE TO give that Judgement. IT means that is the utmost extent of the judgments that you can give according to each crime. There are many times when beni Isreal did ATROCIOUS things and by all rights they could have been punished accordingly but Allah forgave them.
Many of the prophets after the Torah period spoke out about the way the Isrealites were automatically going to extremes and forgetting to be merciful. Even, Isa spoke about this frequently.At the end of the verses we are told that who does not judge by what Allah revealed they are the unjust.
Here is an example of some verses that indicate forgiveness (the translation is faulty and inaccurate but you this is just to give you the idea...also these are not the only verses regarding mercy and forgiveness-obviously)
Num 1522 And when ye shall err, and not observe all these commandments, which the LORD hath spoken unto Moses,
Num 1523 even all that the LORD hath commanded you by the hand of Moses, from the day that the LORD gave commandment, and onward throughout your generations;
Num 1524 then it shall be, if it be done in error by the congregation, it being hid from their eyes, that all the congregation shall offer one young bullock for a burnt-offering, for a sweet savour unto the LORD - with the meal-offering thereof, and the drink-offering thereof, according to the ordinance - and one he-goat for a sin-offering.
Num 1525 And the priest shall make atonement for all the congregation of the children of Israel, and they shall be forgiven; for it was an error, and they have brought their offering, an offering made by fire unto the LORD, and their sin-offering before the LORD, for their error.
Num 1526 And all the congregation of the children of Israel shall be forgiven, and the stranger that sojourneth among them; for in respect of all the people it was done in error.
Num 1527 And if one person sin through error, then he shall offer a she-goat of the first year for a sin-offering.
Num 1528 And the priest shall make atonement for the soul that erreth, when he sinneth through error, before the LORD, to make atonement for him; and he shall be forgiven,
Num 1529 both he that is home-born among the children of Israel, and the stranger that sojourneth among them ye shall have one law for him that doeth aught in error.Also Deuteronomy (27-30) effectively outlines the "blessing and the curse" so that one understands that God is always merciful and forgiving if you turn to him but wrathful if you turn away from him and his commandments.
Also, what exactly is happening in this verse -- what are they doing?
7103 Falamma aslama watallahu liljabeeni
So when they submitted and he pulled/pushed/followed him to the foreheads.So when they submitted (to the vision) and he pulled his forehead down (was about ready to sacrifice Isaac).
Salam,
Arnab