Should we stone A. Wallace?
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Peace jonny_k,
You have not yet answered my reply where ive proven to you from Quran that "messenger" is the general term in the phrase "rassolan nabiyyan". ALSO further proof that messenger is the general term are these verses
Messengers(RUSUL) we have told you about before you, and messengers we never told you about. And GOD spoke to Moses directly.
We have sent messengers(rusul) before you - some of them we mentioned to you, and some we did not mention to you. No messenger can produce any miracle without GOD's authorization. Once GOD's judgment is issued, the truth dominates, and the falsifiers are exposed and humiliated.NEVER does GOD make the same claim about prophets(nabiyeen/anbiya) that some prophets have been mentioned whilst others havent been. Coincidence? GOD Bless!
As I explained earlier that a messenger of God, if he is a human is also a prophet as well. The basic function of the prophet is to preach God's message as various prophets were sent to Jews between Moses and Jesus but some were killed as mentioned in Quran. The messenger not only preaches God's message but also delivers a scripture and a system of laws to the people.Moreover no messenger mentioned in Quran had ever been killed. The messengers of God carry a message universal to the whole world at their respective times. Prophets may preach only locally who are not messengers meaning that they do not carry a universal message for all people in the form of a scripture . When a messenger is also a prophet then you cannot claim that Quran nowhere says that some prophets are not mentioned.
Lane clearly mentions that every messenger is also a prophet but not very prophet can be a messenger.
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume8/00000007.pdf
This is where God mentions prophets who are in general terms we do not know who they were or their names.
384 Say ?We believe in God and what was sent down to us and what was sent down to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Patriarchs, and what was given to Moses and Jesus and the prophets from their Lord. We do not make any distinction between them, and to Him we submit.?
Below is how prophet hood and messengers are being mentioned.
5725 We have sent Our messengers with clear proofs, and We sent down with them the Scripture and the balance, so that the people may uphold justice. And We sent down the iron, wherein there is great strength, and many benefits for the people. So that God would distinguish those who would support Him and His messengers on faith. God is Powerful, Noble.
5726 And We had sent Noah and Abraham, and We placed in their progeny the prophethood and the Scripture. Some of them were guided, while many were wicked.
5727 Then We sent in their tracks Our messengers. We sent Jesus the son of Mary, and We gave him the Injeel, and We ordained in the hearts of his followers kindness and mercy. But they invented Monasticism which We never decreed for them. They wanted to please God, but they did not observe it the way it should have been observed. Consequently, We gave those who believed among them their recompense, while many of them were wicked.Prophet hood and messengers are being distinguished.
689 Those to whom We have given the Scripture, and the law, and the prophethood, if they reject it, then We will entrust it to a people who will not reject it.
Giving of the scripture and the law signifies a messenger who is also a prophet. If there is no difference so why would God mention them in verses in such a way.
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Peace "abrar",
Peace jonny_k,
As I explained earlier that a messenger of God, if he is a human is also a prophet as well.
JK- You have merely given some "scholarly" interpretation WHICH I PROVED FROM QURAN cannot be true. BUT the question is how can any Prophet who receives news from GOD just keep it for himself and not deliver it to the people? Doesnt make sense so every Prophet has to be a messenger.
The basic function of the prophet is to preach God's message as various prophets were sent to Jews between Moses and Jesus but some were killed as mentioned in Quran. The messenger not only preaches God's message but also delivers a scripture and a system of laws to the people.Moreover no messenger mentioned in Quran had ever been killed. The messengers of God carry a message universal to the whole world at their respective times. Prophets may preach only locally who are not messengers meaning that they do not carry a universal message for all people in the form of a scripture . When a messenger is also a prophet then you cannot claim that Quran nowhere says that some prophets are not mentioned.
JK- A messenger whose not a Prophet CONFIRMS previous scriptures. See here
GOD took a covenant from the prophets, saying, "I will give you the scripture and wisdom. Afterwards, a messenger will come to confirm all existing scriptures. You shall believe in him and support him." He said, "Do you agree with this, and pledge to fulfill this covenant?" They said, "We agree." He said, "You have thus borne witness, and I bear witness along with you."Now look here GOD connects Prophethood with scripture
Never would a human being whom GOD blessed with the scripture and PROPHETHOOD say to the people, "Idolize me beside GOD." Instead, (he would say), "Devote yourselves absolutely to your Lord alone," according to the scripture you preach and the teachings you learn.Those were the ones to whom we have given the scripture, wisdom, and PROPHETHOOD. If these people disbelieve, we will substitute others in their place, and the new people will not be disbelievers.
We have given the Children of Israel the scripture, wisdom, and PROPHETHOOD, and provided them with good provisions; we bestowed upon them more blessings than any other people.
We sent Noah and Abraham, and we granted their descendants PROPHETHOOD and the scripture. Some of them were guided, while many were wicked.
ALSO hud, saleh and shuaib have been termed "messengers" in the Quran and each of them preached only a LOCAL message for their people so that statement of your is incorrect as well.
Lastly your last statement shows you did not understand my point. IT IS YOU WHO CLAIM that every Prophet is not a messenger. So if you accept that then you should wonder why did GOD not use the common term "nabi" in the above verses i quoted earlier. Get my point?
Lane clearly mentions that every messenger is also a prophet but not very prophet can be a messenger.
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume8/00000007.pdf
JK- I dont care what Lane mentions when the Quran's statements clearly prove otherwise as ive shown. This is a sectarian concept and lane although it contains many neutral meanings it does at times also mention the sectarian understandings.
This is where God mentions prophets who are in general terms we do not know who they were or their names.
384 Say ?We believe in God and what was sent down to us and what was sent down to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Patriarchs, and what was given to Moses and Jesus and the prophets from their Lord. We do not make any distinction between them, and to Him we submit.?
JK- This verse doesnt say that those other Prophets are not mentioned in the Quran. Could be that those in other verses of the Quran are meant. Thus this statement is not equal to the ones i quoted.
Below is how prophet hood and messengers are being mentioned.
5725 We have sent Our messengers with clear proofs, and We sent down with them the Scripture and the balance, so that the people may uphold justice. And We sent down the iron, wherein there is great strength, and many benefits for the people. So that God would distinguish those who would support Him and His messengers on faith. God is Powerful, Noble.
5726 And We had sent Noah and Abraham, and We placed in their progeny the prophethood and the Scripture. Some of them were guided, while many were wicked.
5727 Then We sent in their tracks Our messengers. We sent Jesus the son of Mary, and We gave him the Injeel, and We ordained in the hearts of his followers kindness and mercy. But they invented Monasticism which We never decreed for them. They wanted to please God, but they did not observe it the way it should have been observed. Consequently, We gave those who believed among them their recompense, while many of them were wicked.Prophet hood and messengers are being distinguished.
689 Those to whom We have given the Scripture, and the law, and the prophethood, if they reject it, then We will entrust it to a people who will not reject it.
Giving of the scripture and the law signifies a messenger who is also a prophet. If there is no difference so why would God mention them in verses in such a way.
JK- You showed verses proving that scripture is associated with prophethood. I agree messenger Prophets bring news in form of Scripture and confirm it too whilst messengers who are not prophets merely confirm an existing scripture as made clear per 381. GOD Bless!
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Peace Jonny_k,
JK- I dont care what Lane mentions when the Quran's statements clearly prove otherwise as ive shown. This is a sectarian concept and lane although it contains many neutral meanings it does at times also mention the sectarian understandings.
There is no any hadith that I have ever heard that indicates the difference between prophets and messengers. Please quote me one. All commentators have derived all their understanding from the Quran.
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Peace "abrar",
Peace Jonny_k,
There is no any hadith that I have ever heard that indicates the difference between prophets and messengers. Please quote me one. All commentators have derived all their understanding from the Quran.
JK- Oh really? Then please explain to me why the Quran ALWAYS uses these terms in the following manner "BASHARAN rassoolan", bashar being common, "SIDDIQAN nabiyyan", siddiq being common and "RASSOLAN nabbiyan", where according to the previous two RASOOL and not nabi must be common. You cannot deny this clear order arranaged by GOD plus all the other verses i used to prove that a messenger need not be a prophet. GOD Bless!
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Peace "abrar",
JK- Oh really? Then please explain to me why the Quran ALWAYS uses these terms in the following manner "BASHARAN rassoolan", bashar being common, "SIDDIQAN nabiyyan", siddiq being common and "RASSOLAN nabbiyan", where according to the previous two RASOOL and not nabi must be common. You cannot deny this clear order arranaged by GOD plus all the other verses i used to prove that a messenger need not be a prophet. GOD Bless!
Im with Jonny K on this.
456These are Gods revelations that We recite to you with truth. So, in which narration after God and His revelations do they believe?
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Peace Jonny_k,
JK- Oh really? Then please explain to me why the Quran ALWAYS uses these terms in the following manner "BASHARAN rassoolan", bashar being common, "SIDDIQAN nabiyyan", siddiq being common and "RASSOLAN nabbiyan", where according to the previous two RASOOL and not nabi must be common. You cannot deny this clear order arranaged by GOD plus all the other verses i used to prove that a messenger need not be a prophet. GOD Bless!
Bashar can be any human. But in this case he is a CHOSEN HUMAN who is not like other humans as he has an established communication with God which a normal human cannot aspire to achieve. A normal human can pray but God does not communicate directly or indirectly with him but in the case of CHOSEN HUMAN God answers by various means.
Similarly a messenger could be any message bearer but in this case a messenger is special as he delivers God's message which God has communicated to him. A prophet could be anyone foretelling future events but in this case he is the one who foretells God's plan for the future of mankind which God has told him by communication. -
Peace "abrar",
Peace Jonny_k,
Bashar can be any human. But in this case he is a CHOSEN HUMAN who is not like other humans as he has an established communication with God which a normal human cannot aspire to achieve. A normal human can pray but God does not communicate directly or indirectly with him but in the case of CHOSEN HUMAN God answers by various means.
Similarly a messenger could be any message bearer but in this case a messenger is special as he delivers God's message which God has communicated to him. A prophet could be anyone foretelling future events but in this case he is the one who foretells God's plan for the future of mankind which God has told him by communication.JK- The phrases make clear which term, the first or second in the order, is the common of the TWO. Like in "basharan rasoolan" the term "bashar" is common which is the first. In "siddiqan nabiyyan" the term "siddiq" is common as it is inclusive of prophets and is also the first. Similar is the case with "rasoolan nabiyyan" where "rasool" is COMMON. A messenger of GOD per 381 need not be a prophet as well since he could just be confirming a PREVIOUSLY EXISTING SCRIPTURE and not necessarily deliver a new one. GOD Bless!
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peace to all
i'd like to know what message mr. wallace is bringing.
I bring you the proofs.
And I bring you the proofs of salat ( the daily prayers), and the daily readings, and the daily teachings. I manefest the communion.
And I bring my people out of darkness into the light by their Lords leave.
And I deliver to you my Lords messages.
I invite to God in full disclousure, myself and whomever follows me. And Glory be to God. And I am not of those who set up partners.
Peace,
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Peace Jonny_k,
Bashar can be any human. But in this case he is a CHOSEN HUMAN who is not like other humans as he has an established communication with God which a normal human cannot aspire to achieve. A normal human can pray but God does not communicate directly or indirectly with him but in the case of CHOSEN HUMAN God answers by various means.
Similarly a messenger could be any message bearer but in this case a messenger is special as he delivers God's message which God has communicated to him. A prophet could be anyone foretelling future events but in this case he is the one who foretells God's plan for the future of mankind which God has told him by communication.I deliver to you "the submitters communion book." The communion manefested.
peace
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Did you receive it miraculously from God, or is it a product of your intelligence?
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Did you receive it miraculously from God, or is it a product of your intelligence?
Glory be to God, we have no knowledge except what He has taught us...
I bring you the proofs and clarify for you in this book...
It is a product based on the proofs...
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There is still a difference between the will of man, and the will of God. God is perfect and created everything, but human beings have free will and can choose to understand everything in their own way. What our intelligence can explain equates with our own perceptions and prejudices, it is limited by our ego. God doesn't answer our prayers, or give us a true revelation unless we put aside our ego (because if we don't, we're not really praying to God, but to our desires). Thus the manner in which a prayer is answered, or in which a revelation is received, must be unexpected, it must be miraculous.
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Yes, i would love to stone Anthony Wallace with hearts.
???
Yes, I would love to stone Anthony Wallace with all my heart.
peace
There is still a difference between the will of man, and the will of God. God is perfect and created everything, but human beings have free will and can choose to understand everything in their own way. What our intelligence can explain equates with our own perceptions and prejudices, it is limited by our ego. God doesn't answer our prayers, or give us a true revelation unless we put aside our ego (because if we don't, we're not really praying to God, but to our desires). Thus the manner in which a prayer is answered, or in which a revelation is received, must be unexpected, it must be miraculous.
God misguides whoever He wishes and guides to Him whoever is repenting.
I bring you the proofs, you can call it what you wont.
peace
It is a product of his intelligence that he understands and brings this message to you from miraculous Quran.peace handshake
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I didn't call it anything. I just asked a question - did you receive it miraculously from God, or is it a product of your intelligence? I'm not trying to criticise, just letting you know what I understand by a message from God. Btw, I think Yosemite likes you.
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I didn't call it anything. I just asked a question - did you receive it miraculously from God, or is it a product of your intelligence? I'm not trying to criticise, just letting you know what I understand by a message from God. Btw, I think Yosemite likes you.
peace
I recieved it maraculously from God.
peace