perhaps i am not a Muslim...
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I do not know how youget into the thing about bibliolatry and seem to hang it on me. If you read a book, it either tells you something or not, and you profit from what it tells you if it is profitable. On the other hand, either what is being said, in book or in word is alive and inspires you and touches you and makes sense to you or not. I hope that getting meaning and sense out of something is not some "latry". It is in a book, is could be in the gutter in the sky anywhere where you see something that speaks to you en enlightens you...
As to the "violence prone muslims", I think I have had my fill of havint to answer for that when I know none of them and they who speak so much aout them seem to know so many. Please those of you who know those men or women, speak to them and tell them what you think, I do not know any. But I know of a lot of injustices visiting many predominantely muslim countries just because they are accused of this and that. And you may not use the bible to visit such tragedies on them but certainly you use a sense of moral superiority to do so. Does it come from the bible or not? I don't care. Injustice, whether you commit while not mentioning a holy book or mentioning it doesn't change a damned thing nor hurts less. And whatever you say that violence is not justified on a book, it is still fed on the fact that you (I mean those who think the way you say) think that you are morally superior because you do have that jolly holy book, and the others don't. The worse lie is the one that is not mentioned but nontheless is there as something taken for granted and acted upon. You may invade and kill peoples, but since you do not say the bible tells you to kill that your book is safe and you can go and kill with good conscience, because it is not because of a book, but because thanks to that book or to whatever you are superior and that therefore you have lessons to teach others and therefore are justified in punishing them till they learn what made of you such a wonder.
On the other hand you, anders, and excuse me, are superbly ignorant So, according to you no muslims are speaking up against a twisted interpretation of the Quran? You must be buried very deep in some hole.
As for myself I find that no many first world people get informed or ever care a damn to know how much their intelligence agencies and their whole apparatus have invested in creating among muslims precisely that kind of "violence" that will give the pretext to kill and invade.
There is very little religious "violence" or interests in everything that is going on, I hope you do know that, although it is very convenient to say that everything that goes on is religious. It is not. It is political and very dirty. Nothing to do with religion. Which is another reason why I particularly will not waste an atom of the little energy I have in barking at the wrong tree. I will contradict within my psosibilities whoever I think says something wrong because it is wrong, but I am not going to go on a crusade in which the parties I have mentioned are ahead of me by light years as if that was the esssential thing.
I found relevant one of your posts, can't remember where, about every person having feminine and masculine in her or him, although I find that the use of the very terms "feminine" and "masculine" confuses the issue instead of clarifying it, I would do away with that.
Salaam and welcome
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Salam anders. I read your intial post earlier, and waited to watch the reaction of the forum members. I had certain conclusions about you when I read your post, and I waited to see what replies you would get from the forum members.
I have come to certain conclusions about you, based upon your own remarks. I will share my conclusions with you and the members of the forum.
The first issue is are you a Muslim or a non Muslim. Most importantly, you stated "So you see, those who claim to follow the quran are really confused" This sentence tells me a lot about your motives. You are claiming that anyone who follows the Quran is confused. You are claiming, that to claim that one is following the Quran, means a person is confused. Because following the word of Allah as stated by him in the Quran is a pre-requisite for being a Muslim, your opposition to those who follow the Quran classifies you as a non Muslim.
The second issue is, what exactly are you? You state "God and his kingdom are an inner reality" and the "the lost sheep" These two phrases are very revealing as to what you actually believe. From my knowledge of the diffferent religions, the claim of "the inner kingdom" is a baptist concept, wherein many baptists are opposed to going to church every sunday, because they believe the church is in their heart, the kingdom of God is within. The second phrase "the lost sheep" is the baptist metaphor for other christians, all christians being sheep, however the baptists believe only they are not lost. This classifies your identity as baptist.
The third issue is what is the motive in your post. You state "keep it up ladies!" "Its you who are the salvation of suffering mankind" "Where the quran says you are valued only half a man" and "Shake off this male oppression!" You have singled out a class of people, the women, which is a very gender biased manner in which to proceed. You claim the Quran and men opress women. You claim only women can provide salvation to mankind. These gender biased phrases tell me the reader that you are prejudiced, that you believe that you as a man are yourself an opressor. And last but not least you are TROLLING. This is a well known practice of baptist missionaries, to seek to instigate hatred and bloodshed, by making Muslim women believe that the Quran and Muslim men are evil. Therefore your motive is you are a baptist missionary.
The fourth issue is why do you think what you are is superior to what a Muslim is? The answer lies in your phrase "that would perpetuate the barbarism of the stone age" "Truth that will in time slowly be absorbed and offer the way out of the desert/illusion" and "Note that the arab/islamic culture is a desert culture. That is not a coincidence" You claim that arabs and Muslims are from the stone age, that the arab and muslim culture will be wiped out.
The stone age is not a classification of the intellectual ability of mankind, the stone age is a classification of the tools that mankind used. All of mankind used stone tools for tens of thousands of years, even those who did not live in a desert, even those who were not arabs. When I examine the wonderful writings of those that lived in the stone age, one thing comes to mind, human beings are not defined by whether their tools are stone or metal. Human beings have always had an amazing intellect.
The barbarism of the allegedly modern era is without paralell, I would submit the sixty million people killed in world war two, is possibly the ultimate example of barbarism. Without going into the details, the barbarians who constantly start wars, invade countries, kill thousands of people, torture people, engage in genocide, are not using stone tools, they are using metal tools. Your claim that stone age correlates to barbarism is dashed by the facts.
In sum mr. anders, your post is a miserable troll. Your rambling confused posts, are confused, and ramble, because you deceitfully intend to conceal your true purpose. You dont want people to follow the word of Allah, you hate the barbarian arabs and muslims who opress women. You are attacking the fathers and brothers of Muslim women. You are gender biased. You think by creating hatred amongst Muslim women against Muslim men, you will destroy Islam and the way of Allah.
Allah exposes falsehood and establishes the truth.
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In sum mr. anders, your post is a miserable troll. Your rambling confused posts, are confused, and ramble, because you deceitfully intend to conceal your true purpose. You dont want people to follow the word of Allah, you hate the barbarian arabs and muslims who opress women. You are attacking the fathers and brothers of Muslim women. You are gender biased. You think by creating hatred amongst Muslim women against Muslim men, you will destroy Islam and the way of Allah.
Allah exposes falsehood and establishes the truth.
Salaam
I just read your post to Anders and you are reminding him that You are attacking the fathers and brothers of Muslim women. But learned sir what about when you slanderded a Muslim woman who happens to be someone's daughter or sister. One rule for you and another for those who say anything against Muslim men?
Remember The whole story is riddled with completely implausible scenarios, most likely the construction of a person who is mentally ill. My take on the story is, we have a woman who has taken off on her own after 19 years of marriage, has concocted this story of being tricked to elicit sympathy, and is looking for someone to be taken in by her fanciful story.Let he that is without sin cast the first stone.
peace
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I did this because violence and islam is the subject of this topic and has not been properly addressed so far.
Furthermore, I chose to read in EXACTLY the same simple way as in general the violence prone muslims read, for the very purpose of challenging you to respond in a way that those violence prone muslims can relate to and accept.
Any of you had the opportunity to categorically denounce the literal interpretation of the violent verses on their own merit. You did not. So they will continue to be taken literally by the violence prone.
Saying that the must be understood in the 'context' is evasive once again.Whats your point? If people choose to be violent thats not my problem. It must be understood in context, this is not being evasive.
Reversely, why do you deny others the right to read peace loving verses in a violent way?
At least those who do that have the extra argument of chapter 9 being the last written and in general the later the 'send down' messages, the more violent they turn.They have the freewill to do what they want. More violent? later they "send down" messages"? Where are you getting the chronology of chapters from? Your making an issue out of nothing.
As for me, I feel no need to prove anything to anyone. Bibliolatry is not for me, but if others feel its the way to go they have my blessing.
My position is that ink and paper can not, and never have, escaped the influence of the dark forces because paper and ink are its very tools!
My position is that only the Living Word is reliable and that it can not be heard by those who place their confidence in paper and ink.
That is also the position of both bible and quran!!691 And they did not appreciate God as He deserves to be appreciated, for they said ?God has never sent down anything to any human being.? Say ?Who then has sent down the Scripture which Moses had come with, a light and a guidance for the people? You treat it just as paper, you show some of it and conceal much, and you were taught what neither you nor your fathers knew.? Say ?God has.? Then leave them playing in their folly.
3120 Did you not see that God has committed in your service everything in the heavens and the Earth, and He has showered you with His blessings, both apparent and hidden? Yet from the people are some who argue about God without knowledge, without guidance, and without an enlightening Scripture.
Paper is something you write on. Ink is something you use to write with. God sends revelations to mankind. Thats my position.
Both warn not to read and study it UNLESS your eyes (especially inner eye) are opened, untill you are ready for it.
In other words, you can read correctly only if you already know what the truth in the verses is, but you can not intellectually extract it.
You (Huruf) are right here; if you read with a clean and open heart the understanding may placed in your heart instantly and than you can see it reflected in the writings.
BUT harboring bibliolatry is not a clean heart!!!Thanks for the accusing us of having dirty hearts and closed "inner eyes".
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominemOn the contrary it takes "intelligence" to heed the scripture
3829 A Scripture that We have sent down to you, that is blessed, so that they may reflect upon its verses, and so that those with intelligence will take heed.
What I do, before I accept a truth, is to try to falsify it myself. If I fail, I must assume it to be truthful. For the time being...
You are living in the Matrix. Try and falisify that.
You will have a hard time falsifying ALL historical data mentioned.
I already told you history is flawed. You are associating the Quran with something I see as irrelevant.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacyThe whole point of this exercise is the question of this topic 'perhaps I am not a good muslim'
Nobody should even feel such a question is relevant. Who is to judge???
The only relevant question is Do I seek to be truthful, have I finally understood that seeking god equals seeking WITHIN?
Have I finally understood that no man/woman shall rule over another in matters of god?http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_emotion
I don't see who you are convincing.
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Salam farida. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone, is a quote from the bible, wherein esa asked the people who were going to stone a woman for adultery, if they were without sin. Remember the context of the question, John 82-11, the context was that of a woman who had been caught in the act of adultery. Since you bring up this verse, why does this verse come to mind? I ask you, have you been caught in the act of adultery?
The scribes and the pharisees brought the woman to esa, claiming she has been caught in the act of adultery. Esa wrote in the ground twice, while stating "let he who is without sin cast the first stone at her" The scribes and pharisees left one by one, nobody asked them to leave, they left of their own accord. Then Esa asked the woman "where are your accusers" The woman LIED and said "no man" The woman knew there were accusers, she knew who they were, and lied claiming there were none. Esa then said "neither do I accuse you" because Esa had not seen her in the act.
Esa was following the hudood of Allah. He knew that in order to convict her of adultery, he needed four witnesses. The same rule as in the Quran. Esa did not forgive her, he said "neither do I accuse you" However make no mistake, if four witnesses had stood there and accused her, the stoning to death punishment would have most likely been carried out. Esa knew she had sinned, he told her so when he said "go and sin no more"
Your claim that I have slandered you is FALSE. Your claim of slander is FALSE. The claim of adultery is most likely TRUE. You are going from possible adultery to false claims of slander.
Slander is oral defamation. A defamation spoken by the mouth. There is no words from anyones mouth in this forum, everything is written, therefore there CANNOT be a slander in this forum. Defamation is "the injury to a persons character, fame, or reputation by FALSE... AND... malicious statements" If in fact a woman has not received a talaq, and gets another nikah, that is per se adultery. Therefore, since the woman HAS another two nikahs and no talaq from the first nikah, the statement of adultery is TRUE, and not NOT FALSE, and CANNOT be defamation.
I have noticed that you are going from thread to thread in this forum, in anger, because you are annoyed that I said, a woman without a talaq who marries another man has comitted adultery. That is the general rule whether it annoys you or not. I will not conceal the word of Allah. If this general rule fits your personal situation, nothing more needs to be said. You wont be stoned to death because there are not four witnesses and I am not a qazi. You are making false and malicious claims that I am a slanderer. THAT... IS... DEFAMATION AND LIBEL.
Allah is the best of those who judge.
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Salam farida. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone, is a quote from the bible, wherein esa asked the people who were going to stone a woman for adultery, if they were without sin. Remember the context of the question, John 82-11, the context was that of a woman who had been caught in the act of adultery. Since you bring up this verse, why does this verse come to mind? I ask you, have you been caught in the act of adultery?
The scribes and the pharisees brought the woman to esa, claiming she has been caught in the act of adultery. Esa wrote in the ground twice, while stating "let he who is without sin cast the first stone at her" The scribes and pharisees left one by one, nobody asked them to leave, they left of their own accord. Then Esa asked the woman "where are your accusers" The woman LIED and said "no man" The woman knew there were accusers, she knew who they were, and lied claiming there were none. Esa then said "neither do I accuse you" because Esa had not seen her in the act.
Esa was following the hudood of Allah. He knew that in order to convict her of adultery, he needed four witnesses. The same rule as in the Quran. Esa did not forgive her, he said "neither do I accuse you" However make no mistake, if four witnesses had stood there and accused her, the stoning to death punishment would have most likely been carried out. Esa knew she had sinned, he told her so when he said "go and sin no more"
Your claim that I have slandered you is FALSE. Your claim of slander is FALSE. The claim of adultery is most likely TRUE. You are going from possible adultery to false claims of slander.
Slander is oral defamation. A defamation spoken by the mouth. There is no words from anyones mouth in this forum, everything is written, therefore there CANNOT be a slander in this forum. Defamation is "the injury to a persons character, fame, or reputation by FALSE... AND... malicious statements" If in fact a woman has not received a talaq, and gets another nikah, that is per se adultery. Therefore, since the woman HAS another two nikahs and no talaq from the first nikah, the statement of adultery is TRUE, and not NOT FALSE, and CANNOT be defamation.
I have noticed that you are going from thread to thread in this forum, in anger, because you are annoyed that I said, a woman without a talaq who marries another man has comitted adultery. That is the general rule whether it annoys you or not. I will not conceal the word of Allah. If this general rule fits your personal situation, nothing more needs to be said. You wont be stoned to death because there are not four witnesses and I am not a qazi. You are making false and malicious claims that I am a slanderer. THAT... IS... DEFAMATION AND LIBEL.
Allah is the best of those who judge.
Yes Allah is the best of the Judge but itlooks lke you're trying to take over holding stones in his hand to hit woman after woman.
You mind is sick; that's all I can see from your post's and yes every time you would try and preach to others about US Women I will respond as you have no right what so ever to speak on behalf of believing muslim women. police -
Salam farida. Yes my mind is sick to you, because my mind belongs to Allah. Allah says to stone if there are four witnesses, do you reject and oppose Allah and conceal the truth when you know the truth. Believing women do not commit adultery, an unbelieving woman who commits adultery is not a spokesperson for believing women.
Allah is the best of those who judge.
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Salam farida. Yes my mind is sick to you, because my mind belongs to Allah. Allah says to stone if there are four witnesses, do you reject and oppose Allah and conceal the truth when you know the truth. Believing women do not commit adultery, an unbelieving woman who commits adultery is not a spokesperson for believing women.
Allah is the best of those who judge.
Yes you are very sick man in my eyes and don't say salaam to me keep it to yourself. Your mind does not belong to Allah it belongs to Satan.
Learn this is how a believer thinks
O you who believe! Avoid much suspicion (speculation) , indeed some suspicions are sins. And spy not, neither backbite one another. Would one of you like to eat the flesh of his dead brother? You would hate it (so hate backbiting)] . And fear All?h. Verily, All?h is the One Who forgives and accepts repentance, Most Merciful. (49-12)
(Gossips are what believers will always hear, and truth is what they will always seek.
And in this Case, the truth is "The Quran is Gaurded by God" -
Salam samia. Deuteronomy 1126 You can therefore see that I am placing before you both a blessing and a curse. 1127 The blessing if you obey the commandments of God your Lord, which I am prescribing to you today 1128 The curse if you do not obey the commandments of God your Lord, and you go astray from the path that I am prescribing for you today, following other gods 1132 you must carefully keep all the rules and laws that I am prescribing to you today.
Deuteronomy 2222 If a man is found lying with a married woman, both the woman and the man lying with her shall be put to death. 2224 Both of them shall be brought to the gates of that city, and they shall be put to death by stoning. the girl because she did not cry out in the city, and on the man, because he violated his neighbor's wife.
Allah is the lawgiver. Glory be to Allah who established all the laws for man. Labbaik Allahumma Labbaik, In Al Hamda Lakkawal Mulk, Labbaik Alahumma Labbaik.
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Salam farida. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone, is a quote from the bible, wherein esa asked the people who were going to stone a woman for adultery, if they were without sin. Remember the context of the question, John 82-11, the context was that of a woman who had been caught in the act of adultery. Since you bring up this verse, why does this verse come to mind? I ask you, have you been caught in the act of adultery?
"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" can be used in any scenerio. It is atrocious to ask if farida has been caught up in the act of adultery because she referred to it. Allowing your mind to go straight to the negative is disgraceful.
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Deuteronomy 2222 If a man is found lying with a married woman, both the woman and the man lying with her shall be put to death. 2224 Both of them shall be brought to the gates of that city, and they shall be put to death by stoning. the girl because she did not cry out in the city, and on the man, because he violated his neighbor's wife.
Peace,
Why skip verse 23?
<< Deuteronomy 22 >>
Young's Literal Translation22 'When a man is found lying with a woman, married to a husband, then they have died even both of them, the man who is lying with the woman, also the woman; and thou hast put away the evil thing out of Israel. 23 'When there is a damsel, a virgin, betrothed to a man, and a man hath found her in a city, and lain with her; 24 then ye have brought them both out unto the gate of that city, and stoned them with stones, and they have died -- the damsel, because that she hath not cried, being in a city; and the man, because that he hath humbled his neighbour's wife; and thou hast put away the evil thing out of thy midst.
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Salam farida. Go and
Alla is mighty wise.
Na na na I?m not going anywhere I?ll be right here police you.
sin no more
Think again! Verily thy Lord is ample in forgiveness, so avoid GREAT SINs and shameful deeds and justify not yourselves with a twist of your wording/tongues and SLANDER not a believing woman by calling it defamation and then say that you are within hudood.
For Allah is with His Servants Well-acquainted, WATCHFUL.
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"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" can be used in any scenerio. It is atrocious to ask if farida has been caught up in the act of adultery because she referred to it. Allowing your mind to go straight to the negative is disgraceful.
Dotty, salaam
I think we may be wasting words. What this man says goes beyond shamelessness and ridicule. I do not know whether it is out of lack of brain or abundance of inner rage or bitterness over not being a woman or what, but I think he gets kicks out of enraging people and then kicking some more.
It is a joke and and may be it is not be fair to take it as something else.
Salaam
P.D. In fact, for all I know he may well be what he has accused somebody else of being a troll.
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Dotty, salaam
I think we may be wasting words. What this man says goes beyond shamelessness and ridicule. I do not know whether it is out of lack of brain or abundance of inner rage or bitterness over not being a woman or what, but I think he gets kicks out of enraging people and then kicking some more.
It is a joke and and may be it is not be fair to take it as something else.
Salaam
P.D. In fact, for all I know he may well be what he has accused somebody else of being a troll.
Salaam huruf,
My responses are not necessarily only for Al Araf. Sometimes it's necessary to expose brutality.
I am however, getting closer to finding out what
<<<<<<<<<<< this ignore button is all about. DPeace
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Salaam huruf,
My responses are not necessarily only for Al Araf. Sometimes it's necessary to expose brutality.
I am however, getting closer to finding out what
<<<<<<<<<<< this ignore button is all about. DPeace
Dotty, salaam,
Please, where, what, which is that button. Tell me. I had no idea, where is it and how do youuse it? Reveal it to me.Thanks and salaam