perhaps i am not a Muslim...
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Salam farida. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone, is a quote from the bible, wherein esa asked the people who were going to stone a woman for adultery, if they were without sin. Remember the context of the question, John 82-11, the context was that of a woman who had been caught in the act of adultery. Since you bring up this verse, why does this verse come to mind? I ask you, have you been caught in the act of adultery?
"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" can be used in any scenerio. It is atrocious to ask if farida has been caught up in the act of adultery because she referred to it. Allowing your mind to go straight to the negative is disgraceful.
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Deuteronomy 2222 If a man is found lying with a married woman, both the woman and the man lying with her shall be put to death. 2224 Both of them shall be brought to the gates of that city, and they shall be put to death by stoning. the girl because she did not cry out in the city, and on the man, because he violated his neighbor's wife.
Peace,
Why skip verse 23?
<< Deuteronomy 22 >>
Young's Literal Translation22 'When a man is found lying with a woman, married to a husband, then they have died even both of them, the man who is lying with the woman, also the woman; and thou hast put away the evil thing out of Israel. 23 'When there is a damsel, a virgin, betrothed to a man, and a man hath found her in a city, and lain with her; 24 then ye have brought them both out unto the gate of that city, and stoned them with stones, and they have died -- the damsel, because that she hath not cried, being in a city; and the man, because that he hath humbled his neighbour's wife; and thou hast put away the evil thing out of thy midst.
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Salam farida. Go and
Alla is mighty wise.
Na na na I?m not going anywhere I?ll be right here police you.
sin no more
Think again! Verily thy Lord is ample in forgiveness, so avoid GREAT SINs and shameful deeds and justify not yourselves with a twist of your wording/tongues and SLANDER not a believing woman by calling it defamation and then say that you are within hudood.
For Allah is with His Servants Well-acquainted, WATCHFUL.
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"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" can be used in any scenerio. It is atrocious to ask if farida has been caught up in the act of adultery because she referred to it. Allowing your mind to go straight to the negative is disgraceful.
Dotty, salaam
I think we may be wasting words. What this man says goes beyond shamelessness and ridicule. I do not know whether it is out of lack of brain or abundance of inner rage or bitterness over not being a woman or what, but I think he gets kicks out of enraging people and then kicking some more.
It is a joke and and may be it is not be fair to take it as something else.
Salaam
P.D. In fact, for all I know he may well be what he has accused somebody else of being a troll.
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Dotty, salaam
I think we may be wasting words. What this man says goes beyond shamelessness and ridicule. I do not know whether it is out of lack of brain or abundance of inner rage or bitterness over not being a woman or what, but I think he gets kicks out of enraging people and then kicking some more.
It is a joke and and may be it is not be fair to take it as something else.
Salaam
P.D. In fact, for all I know he may well be what he has accused somebody else of being a troll.
Salaam huruf,
My responses are not necessarily only for Al Araf. Sometimes it's necessary to expose brutality.
I am however, getting closer to finding out what
<<<<<<<<<<< this ignore button is all about. DPeace
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Salaam huruf,
My responses are not necessarily only for Al Araf. Sometimes it's necessary to expose brutality.
I am however, getting closer to finding out what
<<<<<<<<<<< this ignore button is all about. DPeace
Dotty, salaam,
Please, where, what, which is that button. Tell me. I had no idea, where is it and how do youuse it? Reveal it to me.Thanks and salaam
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Dotty, salaam,
Please, where, what, which is that button. Tell me. I have no idea, where it is and how to use it? Reveal it to me please.Thanks and salaam
Salaam huruf,
Sometimes, we wish to ignore someone to avoid heartaches, but if we want to get to the bottom of the truth we need to inquire more and more and just because someone uses his keyboard to accuse other does not mean anything except that there is a disease in his heart.
peace -
Salam dotty. Allah decides what is disgraceful and not any human being.
This is not about "going to the negative" This is about farida claiming SHE has been slandered when a reply was given to her question about having a second nikah with no talaq from the first nikah, and my reply that such conduct is adultery.
Farida identified HERSELF personally as the woman in question, when SHE claimed she had been slandered. I made no "going to the negative" FARIDA made the identification herself.
If Farida had kept her question in the abstract, there would not have been a problem. However, she is backbiting her husband, claiming his actions are evil, when in fact the actions she claims are evil are well within the limits for a momin. Then farida attempted to blackmail me into silence with a device, which was to claim she had been wronged by me. Whereas, I demonstrated her claim of wrong is false, there is no slander, and her claims of slander are libellious.
If a person posts a question in the abstract, the reply is in the abstract. If a person posts a question in the person, the reply is to the person. False protests do not put out the light of Allah with that persons mouth.
Allah separates the truth from falsehood.
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Salam nun de plume. Deuteronomy identifies certain classes of persons, their actions, and the punishment for their actions.
The post was a reply to samia's question. Samia asked me to provide the hudood of Allah regarding stoning in the case of a married woman who "marries" another man. I quoted the RELEVANT verse identifying the class of persons under discussion.
Deuteronomy 2223 did not identify the class of persons under discussion. Thank you for your question.
Allah established the hadd haramna.
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I do not know how you get into the thing about bibliolatry and seem to hang it on me. If you read a book, it either tells you something or not, ... ... I hope that getting meaning and sense out of something is not some "latry". It is in a book, is could be in the gutter in the sky anywhere where you see something that speaks to you en enlightens you...
As to the "violence prone muslims", I think I have had my fill of havint to answer for that when I know none of them
I am not hanging anything on you personally, but your reply shows there is room for fine tuning
You can not read in a book ?what it says?. This is the error bibliolatry is based on.
You can only take out of it what you your self put into it. The meaning of words in a book is exclusively defined by culture, ultimately by the reader.
That is why there is ALWAYS, and will always, be disagreement. And in matter of religion usually to the point of war and slaughter.
That is why god?s means of communication is NOT human language but direct transfer from him to your knowledge system. Inner knowing is immediate and flawless.
If you can find truth in the gutter, it is god speaking to you. Then you are not a bibliolatrist. bravoShocking to learn perhaps, but human language, written words, are part of the process of INvolution away from god, it reduces perceived reality from gods infinite creation to a finite and very limited collection of concepts/words. This reduction constitutes down fall.
Reversely, the Evolutionary return, the reconnection with god/creation that is in process as we speak, will include a return of gods system of communication and make the old system secondary if not redundant. The implication is that books and religions as we know them now will no longer exist. This is to happen very soon.
Until then, read carefully what I wrote books can be helpful in awakening what is already within you. But what is already within you depends on what you allowed in. Many allowed the violence of their culture, the very thing that religion seeks to overcome.
You may have had your fill as you put it in above quote, that?s fine.
But you are in denial when you say you do not know of any violence related to the ?islam and violence? topic, I suggest youtube.I fully agree whit what you say about political interference. However, being invited/pressed to kill is still not the same as actually doing it. The difference being personal responsibility and the abuse of gods gift of free will.
The Powers That Be who orchestrate the affairs of the world have long ago identified the muslim world as a suitable and eager party to manipulate into violence and war for the purpose of instilling FEAR into the sheeple as a means of control and excuse for ever more legislation that will eventually lead to total control and slavery.
Unfortunately, the reaction from the Islamic world proved them right.
Fortunately however, their (TPTB) time is up. God is playing his cards now and there is no stopping him. Soon this will become apparent.I wish you?d more carefully read what I write;
I never said that ?no muslims are speaking up against a twisted interpretation of the Quran?.
I often said/implied that many do, but added that there is no agreement among them.
I also explained why that is human language is NOT the tool for spiritual affairs, its scope is limited to the illusionary and very limited 3D world of our own making (with satan as our behind the scene director).
Only gods language is suitable for spiritual affairs; the wordless language of the heart.
It is your gut feeling, intuition, conscience, inner knowing and inner reception of messages or answers to questions asked that show the way.
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Dotty, salaam,
Please, where, what, which is that button. Tell me. I had no idea, where is it and how do youuse it? Reveal it to me.Thanks and salaam
Salaam huruf handshake
The button is at the left of each post... under the name of the poster. Although I have not used it, I'm thinking it's there for a reason.
To the moderators/admistrators... I'm curious though. I'm expecting that if I click the button under the name of a particular poster... then I will no longer be able to see only their posts, correct? Thanks.
Peace
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"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" can be used in any scenerio.
No, this can be used in only one scenario;
It simply means to imply that since no man is without sin, no man shall condemn another for it. Period.This poses a problem with regard to quranic rules for punishment.
Not for me, but for those who choose to over look that the quran says that forgiveness is still better than the punishment it ALLOWS. -
Salam dotty. Allah decides what is disgraceful and not any human being.
This is not about "going to the negative" This is about farida claiming SHE has been slandered when a reply was given to her question about having a second nikah with no talaq from the first nikah, and my reply that such conduct is adultery.
Farida identified HERSELF personally as the woman in question, when SHE claimed she had been slandered. I made no "going to the negative" FARIDA made the identification herself.
If Farida had kept her question in the abstract, there would not have been a problem. However, she is backbiting her husband, claiming his actions are evil, when in fact the actions she claims are evil are well within the limits for a momin. Then farida attempted to blackmail me into silence with a device, which was to claim she had been wronged by me. Whereas, I demonstrated her claim of wrong is false, there is no slander, and her claims of slander are libellious.
If a person posts a question in the abstract, the reply is in the abstract. If a person posts a question in the person, the reply is to the person. False protests do not put out the light of Allah with that persons mouth.
Allah separates the truth from falsehood.
You should stop sinning, my son, hard as it may be for you.
Salaam
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Salam anders. "Interpretation is the source of all false gospels"
You state "It simply means to imply that since no man is without sin, no man shall condemn another for it" this is interpretation and false gospel.
There is no such hudood of Allah, law of God, such as you claim. Please retract your false claims.
Allah is the lawgiver.
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I will do no such thing. I stand by what I said.
I said
no man is without sins.
I said
for this reason no man is in the position to judge another.
I say
the above is a teaching of Jesus that my inner knowledge recognizes as TRUTH.You may denounce this as false teaching if you feel the need, I will not demand retraction...
You better come off your high horses and refrain from demanding retraction whenever you see or hear something that is not included in your very limited knowledge system.
If you read te quran, then you know it says forgiveness is better than revenge/punishment, the latter merely being ALLOWED because of cultural conditions.
There is a great secret behind this
To judge/condemn other's sins is to put a LOCK on your door to heavens gate. It prevents you from entering it.
I do not seek my own destruction, but you may if you insist...We are living in a fallen world (that demands punishments).
The way out of it is to no longer play by its rules.
Your choice and free will decision. Not much time left.
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This is not about "going to the negative" This is about farida claiming SHE has been slandered when a reply was given to her question about having a second nikah with no talaq from the first nikah, and my reply that such conduct is adultery.
If a person posts a question in the abstract, the reply is in the abstract. If a person posts a question in the person, the reply is to the person. False protests do not put out the light of Allah with that persons mouth.
Allah separates the truth from falsehood.
Salaam everyone
I would lke, in the interest of this forum, for you to see for yourselves how deluded this man is. I am addressing him as A-A because he does not live up to his name and has sunk very low as we all can see.Salam dotty. Allah decides what is disgraceful and not any human being.
If Farida had kept her question in the abstract, there would not have been a problem.
This is what he is saying see below my simple/abstract question
? Reply #15 on August 12, 2008, 073345 PM
So is there no way out for a woman whose husband does not divorce her properly?
I know of other cases where a husband tricked the wife and made her sign a divorce paper, and then he just disappeared without announcing the divorce. Now the woman who has no children and who was married to him for around 19 years is wondering about her material status. Her Sunni mosque have offered to act as an arbitrator saying that they can grant her divorce even if they cannot contact him. Are they wrong?There is clearly a disease in A-A's mind that he replies in this manner
A-ASalam farida. There are always three sides to a story. The side from the complainant, the side from the respondent, and the most important side the truth.
You give us a completely one sided story, the other party has not had an opportunity to present their side of the story, and on this basis you expect rational people to form conclusions? That is utter nonsense.
Your story does not hold up under examination. You allege a husband tricked a wife into signing divorce papers. Allah's hudood requires the husband to go through the proper steps, first the arbitration, then the talaq issued in stages with the proper time intervals. There is no tricking a grown adult into signing papers. If the person is so weak minded they cannot avoid a "trick" they have no business claiming they were tricked. The presumption is a person has to look out for their own interests, and if they fail to do so, there is nobody who can protect them from their own stupidity. This trick wont be their only problem. Next the allegation is he just disappeared, It is unreasonable to expect anyone to believe this rubbish, you would have us believe that this woman got married to a stranger off the street, whom she never knew, she did no investigation as to his background, friends, and family, and somehow he vanished into thin air. Nothing could be more implausible. Next you claim a sunni mosque says they can issue a divorce. Given that last statement any reasonable person would believe that is not a mosque, not a sunni mosque, it is some sort of racket run by charlatans. Read the Quran, do you see any authority for such a claim?
The whole story is riddled with completely implausible scenarios, most likely the construction of a person who is mentally ill. My take on the story is, we have a woman who has taken off on her own after 19 years of marriage, has concocted this story of being tricked to elicit sympathy, and is looking for someone to be taken in by her fanciful story.
The short answer is the mosque is utterly wrong. They can neither issue a talaq, nor have they ever had the authority under the hudood to ever issue a talaq.
Allah sends down the distinction.
I ask why couldn?t he simply give the short answer underlined above(blue) and put his suspicious mind working on the whole issue when I simply asked a question? As you can see the bolded section he kept on saying that I am claiming all this which according to him ."..Nothing could be more implausible
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In the fourth para he came back with his kind of reasonable conclusion (see above green).I was very upset when I read this, as for the last eight months, I have been watching this woman suffering. She is left her with huge debts and the bailiff was on her doorstep before she realised what had happend. So my husband replied and said
My wife will not deign to reply to your harangue so I feel obliged to assert the truthfulness of the story that my wife very conscientiously told. You on the other hand have based your reply on thin air and assumptions. My wife and I knew the couple well and were shocked but not wholly surprised to learn what had happened. BTW it transpired that he had also been married to another woman that he also left without a proper divorce and went on to marry a 3rd woman. It's not important whether or not you believe what my wife wrote, by your demeanor I can tell that you're not a person I could respect or want any further dealings with
Here my husband clearly told him that this is no concocted story and we know that couple but he still was blind to the possibility of any harm having been done to this woman and replied
Salam farida's husband. You claim that you are entitled to assert the truthfulness of your wife's story. Your very response demonstrates the truth is NOT being told. Farida says "then he just disappeared" you on the other hand claim "BTW it transpired that he had also been married to another woman that he also left without a proper divorce and went on to marry a third woman"
f he disappeared you would have no information as to his marriages. however, you claim knowledge of his third marriage. At first glance it appears either you or your wife is not telling the truth, either he has disappeared and you know nothing, or he has not dissapeared and you know about him and his third marriage. These posts do not pass the smell test.
If the gentleman had married one woman, went on to marry another woman, then married a third woman, all three without giving any one of them a talaq, this gentleman is well within the hudood, he has a right accorded to him by Allah to have more than one wife. To speak ill of his conduct is gheebat, his conduct is that of a momin.
However, if one of his wives did not recieve a talaq, and has taken up with another man, then that wife is an adulterer under any definition of the word.If my demeanor is that of a person you cannot respect, the demeanor of a person who sumbits to Allah, my answer to you is very simple. You have no respect to give anyone being daeef. My respect comes from Allah and Allah alone
.Can you all see how A-A, without knowing the whole story, asserts that the "gentleman" is a Momin and it's gheebat to talk to talk of him in an ill manner..but that he can see its most likely the construction of a person who is mentally ill. Although in my post I never said that the woman remarried but he comes with his verdict .."one of his wives did not recieve a talaq, and has taken up with another man, then that wife is an adulterer under any definition of the word.
He is insisting thatFarida identified HERSELF personally as the woman in question, when SHE claimed she had been slandered. I made no "going to the negative" FARIDA made the identification herself.
I invite everyone to read all the posts and tell me where did I identify myself as that woman I said to him I brought you this question and ... so I am mentally ill and the woman (ie my friend) he says this "we have a woman who has taken off on her own after 19 years of marriage, has concocted this story of being tricked to elicit sympathy, and is looking for someone to be taken in by her fanciful story."
Without her permission I could not give anymore confidential information.
You called him within hudood, "a momin" who takes one wife after another and has not been maitaining his wives by giving them their financial and sexual rights and then you go on to talk about the demeanor of a person who sumbits to Allah. You did not believe me when I told you a short problem but you quickly qualified this person whom you don't know as a momin. By yourself you judge others so maybe he's your kind.of "momins".
He did not reply so I chased him on other thread and in the next posts with permission from my friend I disclosed how the first wife and third wife met and confronted him again; again he had no reply and when I asked him how come this double standard he came out with his dirty mind to conclude that I am an adulterer. The rest is all in his reply above.
I ask anyone to tell me was not my first post short and abstract? So why did he came up with his understanding of story and after uttering all sorts of filth gave his reply. The short answer is the mosque is utterly wrong. They can neither issue a talaq, nor have they ever had the authority under the hudood to ever issue a talaq.
It is his sick mind that makes him see me as that person even though i wrote clearly that the woman has no children and, alhumdullilah I am a mother of lovely children.
However, she is backbiting her husband, claiming his actions are evil, when in fact the actions she claims are evil are well within the limits for a momin. Then farida attempted to blackmail me into silence with a device, which was to claim she had been wronged by me. Whereas, I demonstrated her claim of wrong is false, there is no slander, and her claims of slander are libellious.
Reading his post me and my husband and my sons can only laugh at him; may Allah erase the influence of Satan from his mind.
peace