Who are the people of the book?
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At the very least the Children of Isreal is a tribal affilitation. If you are not affiliated you are not an Israelist. I don't get your point really. I said what I said because Jew is technically only one tribe, that of Judah. Although it has come to represent the religion that judah followed which other tribes followed as well. Now a child of Israel is anyone that prescribes to that tribal affilation. That includes all Jews, some Christians and very few Muslims. And all of these groups need to continue to uphold he Torah, the gospel and (in the case of those who have read the Quran) the Quran too. Now if they are Muslims and have lost that identity and don't chose to affiliate with the tribe they are not Children of Israel. And even though I personally believe that all Christians should identify as apart of Israel and Jesus' tribe in particular, if they don't affiliate with the tribe then they atleast need to follow Jesus' gospel. That is my take.
Godbless,
AnwarPeace
Please read the following brief study for Israeilist
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=16684.0 -
Peace,
Yes I do believe that generally. But I think you over simplify. Arabs did mix in with Israelites of the region and those Israelites technically became Arabs.
We can go before that time too and consider the Cananites and others who were not assimiliated into the Israelite ethnicity (the israelites mixed in with these peopels too). So I do agree that many if not most palestinians are of Israelite ancestry. However a great deal of them also have some Arab grandfather in there somewhere. The Arabs were in this region (not as a main population) as co-rulers for the Byzantines before the last prophet. They were called the Ghassanids. But Arab ethnicity was not as purist as the Israelite ancestry claimed to be in later parts of the Bible (you can see that the Israelites were not so purist either before and during Moses' time.) But Arabs can absorb any people. All you need is an Arab ancestor, but generational acculturation can create new Arabs as well.I use Israelist instead of Israelite to show more of a priority and association with Israel rather than an ethnicity of Israel. This a a very complicated issue. Because you can be anything and Arab at the same time if you have an Arab in your father's line. Biblically I am not sure what exactly makes an Israelite. If Moses' children with the Ethiopian were considered Israelites or any other paternal israelite situation then an Israelite would lose his right as an israelite if his father is a non-israelite. But the modern Jews base it on the maternal line. And in that case that would make alot of Palestinians Christian and Muslim Israelites.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Peace,
Yes I do believe that generally. But I think you over simplify. Arabs did mix in with Israelites of the region and those Israelites technically became Arabs.
We can go before that time too and consider the Cananites and others who were not assimiliated into the Israelite ethnicity (the israelites mixed in with these peopels too). So I do agree that many if not most palestinians are of Israelite ancestry. However a great deal of them also have some Arab grandfather in there somewhere. The Arabs were in this region (not as a main population) as co-rulers for the Byzantines before the last prophet. They were called the Ghassanids. But Arab ethnicity was not as purist as the Israelite ancestry claimed to be in later parts of the Bible (you can see that the Israelites were not so purist either before and during Moses' time.) But Arabs can absorb any people. All you need is an Arab ancestor, but generational acculturation can create new Arabs as well.I use Israelist instead of Israelite to show more of a priority and association with Israel rather than an ethnicity of Israel. This a a very complicated issue. Because you can be anything and Arab at the same time if you have an Arab in your father's line. Biblically I am not sure what exactly makes an Israelite. If Moses' children with the Ethiopian were considered Israelites or any other paternal israelite situation then an Israelite would lose his right as an israelite if his father is a non-israelite. But the modern Jews base it on the maternal line. And in that case that would make alot of Palestinians Christian and Muslim Israelites.
Godbless,
AnwarPeace,
God did not take the title of Children of Israel from the Christian nor the Moslem ones, and we should not too.Salam belal hammad and progod. Israel is the name of an angel.
Allah/Elohim gave this name to Yaqub/Jacob. Yaqub is Israel.
The "people of Israel" are "the people of Yaqub"
Allah taught man the names of all things.
peace
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Salam belal hammad and progod. Israel is the name of an angel.
Allah/Elohim gave this name to Yaqub/Jacob. Yaqub is Israel.
The "people of Israel" are "the people of Yaqub"
Allah taught man the names of all things.
Is "Israel" really the name of an angel? Where is that stated?
Peace.
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Peace,
No, the Christians and Muslms took that name from themselves. And if your parents do not associate with a tribe then you are not that tribe.
Tribe is like nationality. You are born from members who openly accept that tribe or you are brought into the tribe. But if neither happens, then you are not apart of that tribe. So there are many Muslim and Christian Arabs that have ancestors who were part of Israel but that does not mean that they are.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Peace,
No, the Christians and Muslms took that name from themselves. And if your parents do not associate with a tribe then you are not that tribe.
Tribe is like nationality. You are born from members who openly accept that tribe or you are brought into the tribe. But if neither happens, then you are not apart of that tribe. So there are many Muslim and Christian Arabs that have ancestors who were part of Israel but that does not mean that they are.
Godbless,
AnwarPeace.
Oh, I already knew that. I'm talking about the name "Israel" itself... In the Bible, it mentions Jacob's name being changed to "Israel", and all of his decendants started being called "Children of Israel" or "Israelites". Still, though, I never heard of "Israel" being the actual name of an angel and then given to Jacob. Is that teaching in the Bible?
Peace.
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Peace,
I never said Israel was the name of an Angel. That was Al-Araf. From what i know it is Jacob's name as well. But are the Isarelites the descendents of Jacob or all those who recognize him as their forefather. That is what I mean by tribal ethnicity and geneological ethnicity. Tribes are not necessarily geneological. Tribes are united by ideas and language. And that is what I mean to say. New world people's ceased to be what their old world ancestors were once the bonds and ideas were severed. If you recognize Jacob as your forefather and are committed to his ways that is what makes you an Israelist, despite whether you are of Isreaelite ancestry really or not. And even if you are of Isrealite ancestry if you have been disassociated from the idea and commitmen to Jacob as a forefather of your way of life than you are not an Isrealite or an Israelist even if you have that ancestry. It would be good if we could get a biblical perspective of what makes and isrealite. But because this is a tribal ethnicity it is the idea and the language NOT the actual geneology. That is why these groups were able to absorb so many peoples and keep their tribal indentities.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Salam.
Genesis 3228 "And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel..."
Genesis 510 "And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name and he called his name Israel"All the names ending in "el" are names of angels. Gabriel, Raphael, Mykael, Emanuel, Israel.
Alla taught man the names of all things.
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Peace "belalhammad",
Moses said, in the Quran, that God prescribed death for Israiles Blasphemers
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And Moses said to his people "O my people! Verily, you have wronged yourselves by worshipping the calf. So turn in repentance to your Creator and kill yourselves, that will be better for you with your Creator." Then He accepted your repentance. Truly, He is the One Who accepts repentance, the Most Merciful. (2-54)JK!! Please Think before answering, PLEASE pr
JK- First of all this is what Moses said and not always do the sayings of the messenger have to be Divine inspirations but emotional statements like when Lot said to his folk "here are my daughters they are purer for you" i also believe GOD didnt inspire him with this but it was an emotional statement. SECONDLY the phrase is translated incorrectly. "qatallu anfussakum" here means to "kill their ego/PSYCHES" NOT PHYSICALLY KILL THEMSELVES. Heres a good explanation
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FFA0Amposg
GOD Bless! -
Peace "belalhammad",
SECONDLY the phrase is translated incorrectly. "qatallu anfussakum" here means to "kill their ego/PSYCHES" NOT PHYSICALLY KILL THEMSELVES.
Peace,
Kill yourself or Kill any Self means Physical death and not Ego.
Why do we have to twist a Stright forward meaning in order to fit our own moral values or our cultural and socity value?
Peace -
Peace,
Kill yourself or Kill any Self means Physical death and not Ego.
Why do we have to twist a Stright forward meaning in order to fit our own moral values or our cultural and socity value?
PeaceSorry Brother do you think Jews killed hundreds of their own fathers mothers daughters sisters wives sons brothers on God command and soon after that they refused to enter the city when asked to do that saying first you and your God should clear the city for us then we will enter it. ???
Peace
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Sorry Brother do you think Jews killed hundreds of their own fathers mothers daughters sisters wives sons brothers on God command and soon after that they refused to enter the city when asked to do that saying first you and your God should clear the city for us then we will enter it. ???
Peace
Peace,
I do not know what happend after Moses said that. But I know what the Verse says, and that how I should understand it.
Peace -
Peace,
The word nafs can mean pride or desire. Qatala can mean to kill, curse, subdue or beat severely.
Godbless,
AnwarThe above plus, original meaning other than to kill to humiliate. It also means to treat someone as dead
Maqaaees-ul lugha dictionary of classical Arabc
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Peace,
Kill yourself or Kill any Self means Physical death and not Ego.
Why do we have to twist a Stright forward meaning in order to fit our own moral values or our cultural and socity value?
PeacePeace.
The Israelites weren't instructed to physically kill themselves. They were told to kill their ego/pride/desire. If you read the entire passage, you'll see that is says that The God forgave them, even though it didn't mention anything about them killing themselves. That obviously means that killing themselves (PHYSICALLY) wasn't necessary for them to attain God's mercy...
Peace.
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Peace.
The Israelites weren't instructed to physically kill themselves. They were told to kill their ego/pride/desire. If you read the entire passage, you'll see that is says that The God forgave them, even though it didn't mention anything about them killing themselves. That obviously means that killing themselves (PHYSICALLY) wasn't necessary for them to attain God's mercy...
Peace.
Peace,
What Ego has to do with worshiping Idle?And remember Moses said to his people "O my people! Ye have indeed wronged yourselves by your worship of the calf so turn (in repentance) to your Maker and slay yourselves; that will be better for you in the sight of your Maker." Then He turned toward you (in forgiveness); for He is Oft-returning Most Merciful. (2-54)
So, you are saying that because of their Ego, they worshiped the Calf; I do not see an Ego confused
Peace -
Peace,
What Ego has to do with worshiping Idle?And remember Moses said to his people "O my people! Ye have indeed wronged yourselves by your worship of the calf so turn (in repentance) to your Maker and slay yourselves; that will be better for you in the sight of your Maker." Then He turned toward you (in forgiveness); for He is Oft-returning Most Merciful. (2-54)
So, you are saying that because of their Ego, they worshiped the Calf; I do not see an Ego confused
PeaceIts true meaning is humiliation
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Peace,
What Ego has to do with worshiping Idle?And remember Moses said to his people "O my people! Ye have indeed wronged yourselves by your worship of the calf so turn (in repentance) to your Maker and slay yourselves; that will be better for you in the sight of your Maker." Then He turned toward you (in forgiveness); for He is Oft-returning Most Merciful. (2-54)
So, you are saying that because of their Ego, they worshiped the Calf; I do not see an Ego confused
PeaceThis was speaking of their desires, their inclination towards polytheism. They were commanded to slay/kill/eliminate these desires... In this same verse, it says
"...Turn to your Maker and kill yourselves. That will be better for you in the sight of your Maker. Then, He turned toward you, for He is most merciful." (al-Qur'an 254)
Here, it mentions The God forgiving them. It didn't say anything about them actually going through the process of killing themselves physically. It simply says that they received God's mercy after they repented from worshipping the idol. This implies that their repentence from this idolatry did not involve them physically killing themselves, it involved them turning away from the act, killing their desire to associate partners/idols with God.
Peace.