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  4. Who are the people of the book?

Who are the people of the book?

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Questions/Comments on the Quran
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  • B Offline
    B Offline
    belH
    wrote on last edited by
    #180

    But Israelists (better word than Jew in my opinion)

    Peace,
    Israelists can be Jews, Christians and Moslems; thus it is wrong to say that Children of Israel are only Jews, and forget about the ones whom followed Jesus and the ones whom followed Mohamed.
    Peace

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    • S Offline
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      Samia
      wrote on last edited by
      #181

      it says, hado haramna, prohibited limits.
      Allah is mighty wise.

      "hado" has nothing to do with huduud. The "h" at the beginning is a h, just as the "h" in "yahood"; but that in the beginning of hudud is different, "7", or as we pronounce the "h" of Muhammad or in the sentence "harramnaa" (yes, it's a sentence with the pattern of a verb conjugated to we). Your translation is wrong.

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        Al_Araf
        wrote on last edited by
        #182

        Salam samia. Had means limit. Hudood means limits.

        I have read your post. I disagree with you.

        Allah gave the names to all things.

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          Samia
          wrote on last edited by
          #183

          Salaam Al

          What's "hado" then?!
          Moreover, the intial letters of hado and had are not the same.
          That's how these words are written

          hado yahood Root
          hadd hudood Root

          The original words agree on one letter and disagree on 2 letters.

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          • P Offline
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            progod
            wrote on last edited by
            #184

            Peace,
            Israelists can be Jews, Christians and Moslems; thus it is wrong to say that Children of Israel are only Jews, and forget about the ones whom followed Jesus and the ones whom followed Mohamed.
            Peace

            At the very least the Children of Isreal is a tribal affilitation. If you are not affiliated you are not an Israelist. I don't get your point really. I said what I said because Jew is technically only one tribe, that of Judah. Although it has come to represent the religion that judah followed which other tribes followed as well. Now a child of Israel is anyone that prescribes to that tribal affilation. That includes all Jews, some Christians and very few Muslims. And all of these groups need to continue to uphold he Torah, the gospel and (in the case of those who have read the Quran) the Quran too. Now if they are Muslims and have lost that identity and don't chose to affiliate with the tribe they are not Children of Israel. And even though I personally believe that all Christians should identify as apart of Israel and Jesus' tribe in particular, if they don't affiliate with the tribe then they atleast need to follow Jesus' gospel. That is my take.

            Godbless,
            Anwar

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            • F Offline
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              farida
              wrote on last edited by
              #185

              Salaam Al

              What's "hado" then?!
              Moreover, the intial letters of hado and had are not the same.
              That's how these words are written

              hado yahood Root
              hadd hudood Root

              The original words agree on one letter and disagree on 2 letters.

              Salaam Samia

              This is very well explained I was having a problem understanding your earlier explanation above.
              peace

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              • S Offline
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                Samia
                wrote on last edited by
                #186

                Yes farida. You are right. If you were able to understand Al's (hado haramna means prohibited limits) thing, you would understand what I was saying. He seems to have understood me!!

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                • B Offline
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                  belH
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #187

                  At the very least the Children of Isreal is a tribal affilitation. If you are not affiliated you are not an Israelist. I don't get your point really. I said what I said because Jew is technically only one tribe, that of Judah. Although it has come to represent the religion that judah followed which other tribes followed as well. Now a child of Israel is anyone that prescribes to that tribal affilation. That includes all Jews, some Christians and very few Muslims. And all of these groups need to continue to uphold he Torah, the gospel and (in the case of those who have read the Quran) the Quran too. Now if they are Muslims and have lost that identity and don't chose to affiliate with the tribe they are not Children of Israel. And even though I personally believe that all Christians should identify as apart of Israel and Jesus' tribe in particular, if they don't affiliate with the tribe then they atleast need to follow Jesus' gospel. That is my take.

                  Godbless,
                  Anwar

                  Peace

                  Please read the following brief study for Israeilist
                  http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=16684.0

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                  • P Offline
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                    progod
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #188

                    Peace,

                    Yes I do believe that generally. But I think you over simplify. Arabs did mix in with Israelites of the region and those Israelites technically became Arabs.
                    We can go before that time too and consider the Cananites and others who were not assimiliated into the Israelite ethnicity (the israelites mixed in with these peopels too). So I do agree that many if not most palestinians are of Israelite ancestry. However a great deal of them also have some Arab grandfather in there somewhere. The Arabs were in this region (not as a main population) as co-rulers for the Byzantines before the last prophet. They were called the Ghassanids. But Arab ethnicity was not as purist as the Israelite ancestry claimed to be in later parts of the Bible (you can see that the Israelites were not so purist either before and during Moses' time.) But Arabs can absorb any people. All you need is an Arab ancestor, but generational acculturation can create new Arabs as well.

                    I use Israelist instead of Israelite to show more of a priority and association with Israel rather than an ethnicity of Israel. This a a very complicated issue. Because you can be anything and Arab at the same time if you have an Arab in your father's line. Biblically I am not sure what exactly makes an Israelite. If Moses' children with the Ethiopian were considered Israelites or any other paternal israelite situation then an Israelite would lose his right as an israelite if his father is a non-israelite. But the modern Jews base it on the maternal line. And in that case that would make alot of Palestinians Christian and Muslim Israelites.

                    Godbless,
                    Anwar

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                      Al_Araf
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #189

                      Salam belal hammad and progod. Israel is the name of an angel.

                      Allah/Elohim gave this name to Yaqub/Jacob. Yaqub is Israel.

                      The "people of Israel" are "the people of Yaqub"

                      Allah taught man the names of all things.

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                      • B Offline
                        B Offline
                        belH
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #190

                        Peace,

                        Yes I do believe that generally. But I think you over simplify. Arabs did mix in with Israelites of the region and those Israelites technically became Arabs.
                        We can go before that time too and consider the Cananites and others who were not assimiliated into the Israelite ethnicity (the israelites mixed in with these peopels too). So I do agree that many if not most palestinians are of Israelite ancestry. However a great deal of them also have some Arab grandfather in there somewhere. The Arabs were in this region (not as a main population) as co-rulers for the Byzantines before the last prophet. They were called the Ghassanids. But Arab ethnicity was not as purist as the Israelite ancestry claimed to be in later parts of the Bible (you can see that the Israelites were not so purist either before and during Moses' time.) But Arabs can absorb any people. All you need is an Arab ancestor, but generational acculturation can create new Arabs as well.

                        I use Israelist instead of Israelite to show more of a priority and association with Israel rather than an ethnicity of Israel. This a a very complicated issue. Because you can be anything and Arab at the same time if you have an Arab in your father's line. Biblically I am not sure what exactly makes an Israelite. If Moses' children with the Ethiopian were considered Israelites or any other paternal israelite situation then an Israelite would lose his right as an israelite if his father is a non-israelite. But the modern Jews base it on the maternal line. And in that case that would make alot of Palestinians Christian and Muslim Israelites.

                        Godbless,
                        Anwar

                        Peace,
                        God did not take the title of Children of Israel from the Christian nor the Moslem ones, and we should not too.

                        Salam belal hammad and progod. Israel is the name of an angel.

                        Allah/Elohim gave this name to Yaqub/Jacob. Yaqub is Israel.

                        The "people of Israel" are "the people of Yaqub"

                        Allah taught man the names of all things.

                        peace

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                          Ahmad_Bilal
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #191

                          Salam belal hammad and progod. Israel is the name of an angel.

                          Allah/Elohim gave this name to Yaqub/Jacob. Yaqub is Israel.

                          The "people of Israel" are "the people of Yaqub"

                          Allah taught man the names of all things.

                          Is "Israel" really the name of an angel? Where is that stated?

                          Peace.

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                          • P Offline
                            P Offline
                            progod
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #192

                            Peace,

                            No, the Christians and Muslms took that name from themselves. And if your parents do not associate with a tribe then you are not that tribe.

                            Tribe is like nationality. You are born from members who openly accept that tribe or you are brought into the tribe. But if neither happens, then you are not apart of that tribe. So there are many Muslim and Christian Arabs that have ancestors who were part of Israel but that does not mean that they are.

                            Godbless,
                            Anwar

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                            • A Offline
                              A Offline
                              Ahmad_Bilal
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #193

                              Peace,

                              No, the Christians and Muslms took that name from themselves. And if your parents do not associate with a tribe then you are not that tribe.

                              Tribe is like nationality. You are born from members who openly accept that tribe or you are brought into the tribe. But if neither happens, then you are not apart of that tribe. So there are many Muslim and Christian Arabs that have ancestors who were part of Israel but that does not mean that they are.

                              Godbless,
                              Anwar

                              Peace.

                              Oh, I already knew that. I'm talking about the name "Israel" itself... In the Bible, it mentions Jacob's name being changed to "Israel", and all of his decendants started being called "Children of Israel" or "Israelites". Still, though, I never heard of "Israel" being the actual name of an angel and then given to Jacob. Is that teaching in the Bible?

                              Peace.

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                              • P Offline
                                P Offline
                                progod
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #194

                                Peace,

                                I never said Israel was the name of an Angel. That was Al-Araf. From what i know it is Jacob's name as well. But are the Isarelites the descendents of Jacob or all those who recognize him as their forefather. That is what I mean by tribal ethnicity and geneological ethnicity. Tribes are not necessarily geneological. Tribes are united by ideas and language. And that is what I mean to say. New world people's ceased to be what their old world ancestors were once the bonds and ideas were severed. If you recognize Jacob as your forefather and are committed to his ways that is what makes you an Israelist, despite whether you are of Isreaelite ancestry really or not. And even if you are of Isrealite ancestry if you have been disassociated from the idea and commitmen to Jacob as a forefather of your way of life than you are not an Isrealite or an Israelist even if you have that ancestry. It would be good if we could get a biblical perspective of what makes and isrealite. But because this is a tribal ethnicity it is the idea and the language NOT the actual geneology. That is why these groups were able to absorb so many peoples and keep their tribal indentities.

                                Godbless,
                                Anwar

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                                • A Offline
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                                  Al_Araf
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #195

                                  Salam.

                                  Genesis 3228 "And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel..."
                                  Genesis 510 "And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name and he called his name Israel"

                                  All the names ending in "el" are names of angels. Gabriel, Raphael, Mykael, Emanuel, Israel.

                                  Alla taught man the names of all things.

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                                  • J Offline
                                    J Offline
                                    jonny_k
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #196

                                    Peace "belalhammad",

                                    Moses said, in the Quran, that God prescribed death for Israiles Blasphemers

                                    (&#65279
                                    And Moses said to his people "O my people! Verily, you have wronged yourselves by worshipping the calf. So turn in repentance to your Creator and kill yourselves, that will be better for you with your Creator." Then He accepted your repentance. Truly, He is the One Who accepts repentance, the Most Merciful. (2-54)

                                    JK!! Please Think before answering, PLEASE pr

                                    JK- First of all this is what Moses said and not always do the sayings of the messenger have to be Divine inspirations but emotional statements like when Lot said to his folk "here are my daughters they are purer for you" i also believe GOD didnt inspire him with this but it was an emotional statement. SECONDLY the phrase is translated incorrectly. "qatallu anfussakum" here means to "kill their ego/PSYCHES" NOT PHYSICALLY KILL THEMSELVES. Heres a good explanation
                                    http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FFA0Amposg
                                    GOD Bless!

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                                    • B Offline
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                                      belH
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #197

                                      Peace "belalhammad",

                                      SECONDLY the phrase is translated incorrectly. "qatallu anfussakum" here means to "kill their ego/PSYCHES" NOT PHYSICALLY KILL THEMSELVES.

                                      Peace,
                                      Kill yourself or Kill any Self means Physical death and not Ego.
                                      Why do we have to twist a Stright forward meaning in order to fit our own moral values or our cultural and socity value?
                                      Peace

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                                      • A Offline
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                                        afridi220
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #198

                                        Peace,
                                        Kill yourself or Kill any Self means Physical death and not Ego.
                                        Why do we have to twist a Stright forward meaning in order to fit our own moral values or our cultural and socity value?
                                        Peace

                                        Sorry Brother do you think Jews killed hundreds of their own fathers mothers daughters sisters wives sons brothers on God command and soon after that they refused to enter the city when asked to do that saying first you and your God should clear the city for us then we will enter it. ???

                                        Peace

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                                        • B Offline
                                          B Offline
                                          belH
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #199

                                          Sorry Brother do you think Jews killed hundreds of their own fathers mothers daughters sisters wives sons brothers on God command and soon after that they refused to enter the city when asked to do that saying first you and your God should clear the city for us then we will enter it. ???

                                          Peace

                                          Peace,
                                          I do not know what happend after Moses said that. But I know what the Verse says, and that how I should understand it.
                                          Peace

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