Should we stone A. Wallace?
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Salaam to all
as brother bilal, has stated the fixed time for rahmadan can not be located, I have sent here all verses so that everyone who is intrested in this point can see them arranged in order...to make thier own conclusion.
I have not been able to find the fixed time, I sincerely hope someone can until then...we must practise what we understand...and be sincere to Allah, he sees and knows all.
My thanks to you brother bilal...for not letting this issues get swept under the rug.
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Peace to all.
I hate dragging this out like this, but that understanding is flawed. Nowhere in al-Qur'an is "ramadhan" called a "month" - it is merely a fixed period of time, a "few number of days".
Ramadhan can't literally be referring to a "month" because there's no definate way to determine how long a "month" was in the time the Scripture was sent down. It could've been 10 days, 30 days, or even 60 days. How would you know how long to abstain/fast? Has God told you that "shahru ramadhan" is 28, 29, or 30 days? Or do you speak of The God what you don't know? Al-Qur'an-Majeed tells us
"...And whoever was sick or on a journey, so numbered/counted from other days..." (al-Qur'an 2185)
It tells us that God wants us to complete the period/term/count from other days if we are sick or traveling during this period of ramadhan. If "ramadhan" was referring to a specific "month", this would not be possible - the "month" only comes back the following year, it can't be repeated during a second period to make up for the first. How can we "complete the count" of a SPECIFIC MONTH when it does not return until a year later? Ramadhan makes up a period of time, a "few number of days" (2184), when we are instructed to fast/abstain, it is not a 30-day month. If it is so, bring your proof.
Also, al-Qur'an says that we should abstain "shahru ramadhan", which many have translated as "month of ramadhan". However, it is not possible for us to abstain an entire month of 30 days. If we did so, we'd all die...
There are many verses in al-Qur'an that mention fasting/abstaining, and all of them refer to specific time periods or specific things to abstain from for a fixed period/number of days. The God wouldn't tell us to abstain for a "week" or "month" because not all cultures and civilizations have the same calendars numbering weeks and months. Your interpretations of these Scriptures regarding ramadhan are based on what your specific definition of a "month" is and not on God's definition.
Peace,
Ahmad
Salaam to all
as brother bilal, has stated the fixed time for rahmadan can not be located, I have sent here all verses so that everyone who is intrested in this point can see them arranged in order...to make thier own conclusion.
I have not been able to find the fixed time, I sincerely hope someone can until then...we must practise what we understand...and be sincere to Allah, he sees and knows all.
My thanks to you brother bilal...for not letting this issues get swept under the rug.
Peace,
For further discussion about Ramadan, please refer to
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.0
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Transliteration Shahru ramadana allathee onzila feehi alqur-anu hudan lilnnasi wabayyinatin mina alhuda waalfurqani faman shahida minkumu alshshahra falyasumhu waman kana mareedan aw AAala safarin faAAiddatun min ayyamin okhara yureedu Allahu bikumu alyusra wala yureedu bikumu alAAusra walitukmiloo alAAiddata walitukabbiroo Allaha AAala ma hadakum walaAAallakum tashkuroona
Literal (The) month (of) Ramadan , which the Koran was descended in it, (is) guidance to the people, and evidences from the guidance and the Separator of Right and Wrong/Koran , so who witnessed from you the month, so he should fast it (E) ,
My Translation
2185 The Quran was sent down in Rahmadan, to guide the people and to clarify the guidance and the Difference between Right and Wrong. So one should fast the whole month.....ect...
2185 The Quran was sent down in Rahmadan, to guide the people and to clarify the guidance and the difference between what is Right and Wronge. So one should fast the whole period of Rahmadan...ect...
" You shall make it clear to the people and not conceal it."
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2185 The Quran was sent down in Rahmadan, to guide the people and to clarify the guidance and the Difference between Right and Wrong. So one should fast the whole month.....ect...
2185 The Quran was sent down in Rahmadan, to guide the people and to clarify the guidance and the difference between what is Right and Wronge. So one should fast the whole period of Rahmadan...ect...
" You shall make it clear to the people and not conceal it."
sun And IT IS VERY CLEAR sun
And incline not to those who do wrong, or the Fire will seize you; and ye have no protectors other than Allah, nor shall ye be helped. (11-113)
And had We not given thee strength, thou wouldst nearly have inclined to them a little. (74) In that case We should have made thee taste double portion in this life, and double portion in death and moreover thou wouldst have found none to help thee against Us! (17-75)
...is it honour they seek among them? Nay, all honour is with Allah. (4-139)
If any do seek for glory and power to Allah belong all glory and power. To Him mount up (all) Words of Purity it is He Who exalts each Deed of Righteousness. Those that lay Plots of Evil for them is a Penalty terrible; and the plotting of such will be void. (35-10)
group
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447 O you who have received the Scripture, believe in what We have sent down authenticating what is with you, before We cast down faces and turn them on their backs or curse them as the people of the Sabbath were cursed. And God?s will is always done.
448 God does not forgive that partners be set up with Him, and He forgives what is beside that for whom He wills. Whoever sets-up partners with God has indeed invented a great sin.
449 Did you not see those who boast about themselves? No, it is God who promotes whom He wills, and they will not be wronged in the least.
450 See how they invent upon God the lies; is that not enough as a clear sin?
451 Did you not see those who were given a portion of the Scripture, they believe in witchcraft and evil, and they say to those who disbelieved ?You are better guided than those who believed the path.?
452 These are the ones whom God has cursed, and whoever God curses, you will not find for him a victor.
453 Or would they have a portion of the sovereignty? If so, then they would not give the people a speck.
454 Or do they envy the people for what God has given them of His bounty? We have given the descendants of Abraham the Scripture and the wisdom; We have given them a great kingship.
455 Some of them believed in it, and some of them turned from it. In Hell will be enough flames.
456 Those who have rejected Our signs, We will admit them to a Fire. Every time their skins are cooked, We replace them with other skin that they may taste the retribution. God is Noble, Wise.
457 And those who believe and do good, We will admit them to estates with rivers flowing beneath, eternally they abide therein, in it they will have pure spouses, and We will admit them to a vast shade.
458 God orders you to deliver anything you have been entrusted with to its owners. And if you judge between the people, then you shall judge with justice. It is always the best that God prescribes for you. God is Hearer, Seer.
459 O you who believe, obey God and obey the messenger, and those in authority amongst you. But if you dispute in any matter, then you shall refer it to God and His messenger if you believe in God and the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for knowing.
460 Did you not see those who claimed they believed in what was sent down to you and what was sent before you? They wanted to seek judgment using evil, while they were ordered to reject it. It is the devil who wants to lead them far astray.
461 And if they are told ?Come to what God has sent down and to the messenger,? you see the hypocrites turning away from you strongly.
462 Why then, when a tragedy befalls them for what their hands have brought forth do they come to you swearing by God that they only wanted to do good and reconcile?
463 These are a people whom God knows what is in their hearts, so turn away from them and advise them, and speak to their souls with a clear saying.
464 We do not send a messenger except to be obeyed by God?s leave. And had they come to you when they had wronged themselves and sought God?s forgiveness, and the messenger sought forgiveness for them, they would have then found God to be Pardoning, Merciful.
465 No, by your Lord, they will not believe until they make you judge in what they dispute with each other, then they will not find in their souls any animosity for what you have decided, and they will comply completely.
466 And had We decreed for them ?Kill yourselves,? or ?Leave your land,? they would not have done so except for a few of them. And if they had done what they were advised with, it would have been better for them and helped to strengthen them.
467 Then We would have given them from Us a great reward.
468 And We would have guided them to a Straight Path.
469 And whoever obeys God and the messenger will be among those whom God has blessed from the prophets and the truthful and the martyrs and the upright. What an excellent companionship!
470 That is the bounty from God; and God knows what is best. -
2183 O you who believe, you are ordered to fast just like those before you were ordered to fast, it could be that you are fearful and obeidient.
2184 Fast for a whole month. Whoever from among you is ill or traveling;then complete the fast in the other months. And as for those who cannot do without, then they may redeem by feeding any of the poorest of the poor. And whoever gives alms voluntarily, then it is best for him. And it is best that you fast, if you are able.
2185 The Quran was sent down in the month of Rahmadan, to guide the people and to clarify the guidance and the Difference between whats Right and Wronge. So one should fast the whole month of Rahmadan, whoever of you witnesses it. And whoever from among you is ill or traveling; then complete the fast in the other months.
God wants to bring you flexibility and not to bring you hardship; and so that you may complete the month, and glorify God for what He has guided you, that you may be thankful. -
2183 O you who believe, you are ordered to fast just like those before you were ordered to fast, it could be that you are fearful and obeidient.
Peace all,
Please notice that in the scripture, the 2 occurences where the god have ordered people before us to fast (Mariam and yahya if I remember well), the fast was about to stop talking for a number of days, nothing to have with eating. We might have to follow these 2 examples.
The part of "Koulou wa shrabou..." would be like an idiom meaning to "act without restraint".
This is how I see this issue.
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2184 Fast for a whole month. Whoever from among you is ill or traveling;then complete the fast in the other months. And as for those who cannot do without, then they may redeem by feeding any of the poorest of the poor. And whoever gives alms voluntarily, then it is best for him. And it is best that you fast, if you are able.
This is BLASPHEMY. Who gave you the right to change the words of God? This is not only a mistranslation, but this is a complete fabrication - al-Qur'an says nothing of this sort.
"And who does greater wrong than he who invents a lie against God when he is summoned unto submission? And God does not guide the wrongdoing people." (al-Qur'an 617)
If you disagree with the meaning/translation of a Scripture, bring your proof and state your opinions on the matter, but don't intentionally create a totally contradictory verse, add your own words and thoughts to it, and claim it is The God's word. That is complete foolishness! Surely, God is fully aware of the transgressors...
Peace.
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Arabic (from right to left)
279
Arberry
So woe to those who write the Book with their hands, then say, 'This is from God,' that they may sell it for a little price; so woe to them for what their hands have written, and woe to them for their earnings.
Khalifa
Therefore, woe to those who distort the scripture with their own hands, then say, "This is what GOD has revealed," seeking a cheap material gain. Woe to them for such distortion, and woe to them for their illicit gains.
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It is those who believe not in the Signs of God, that forge falsehood it is they who lie!
Say, ?Liars, who invent falsehood about Allah, do not prosper!?
You concoct lies about Allah! You blurt out and falsely claim some things to be permissible, others not! Those who fabricate lies about Allah will never prosper!
And say, ?The truth is here and falsehood has ceased to be! Indeed, falsehood is ever bound to vanish!?
On the contrary, We run the truth against falsehood, over which it triumphs. In time, the falsehood is bound to come to naught! Misery to you for what you attribute!
That is because the disbelievers follow falsehood, whereas the believers follow the truth from their Lord! Thus Allah cites their examples for the people.
And cover not Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when ye know (what it is).
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This is BLASPHEMY. Who gave you the right to change the words of God? o This is not only a mistranslation, but this is a complete fabrication - al-Qur'an says nothing of this sort.
"And who does greater wrong than he who invents a lie against God when he is summoned unto submission? And God does not guide the wrongdoing people." (al-Qur'an 617)
If you disagree with the meaning/translation of a Scripture, bring your proof and state your opinions on the matter, but don't intentionally create a totally contradictory verse, add your own words and thoughts to it, and claim it is The God's word. That is complete foolishness! Surely, God is fully aware of the transgressors...
Peace.
It is those who believe not in the Signs of God, that forge falsehood it is they who lie!
Say, ?Liars, who invent falsehood about Allah, do not prosper!?
You concoct lies about Allah! You blurt out and falsely claim some things to be permissible, others not! Those who fabricate lies about Allah will never prosper!
And say, ?The truth is here and falsehood has ceased to be! Indeed, falsehood is ever bound to vanish!?
On the contrary, We run the truth against falsehood, over which it triumphs. In time, the falsehood is bound to come to naught! Misery to you for what you attribute!
That is because the disbelievers follow falsehood, whereas the believers follow the truth from their Lord! Thus Allah cites their examples for the people.
And cover not Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when ye know (what it is).
If I fabricated lies then I am responsible for my crimes and you are responsible for your crimes... And God will gather us all together group and judge between us in what we dispute hmm...And those who distort Gods revelations are not hidden from The God nope...yea I know, and I fear, if I disobey my Lord, the retribution of a great day!
Is it a lie? Are we ordained to fast for a month or not? If so then how am I lien when you bear witness that it is the truth, that we are prescribed to fast a whole month/... And bring a translation that is better than my previous one in guidance if u truthful...And are thsoe who know equal to those who dont know? How am I concealing something when I am makin it clear that this time is refering to a month... Why because it dont say " Month " literaly...
If I fabricated a lie then everyone who translates the Quran is lien... do they use the words "counted" and numbered, days in their translation, or the exact word that are literally used??? So whoever changes these words are lien??? To use other words to help them express what it is they are tryin to say so the people understand the language clearly... And most of u only dispute after the clarity come to u...
What I dont understand is how am I lien about God? And far as im am concerned the truth has over rided the falshood...
And how is usin the word moth contridictin anything regarding 2183-2185, it would be differnt if i used the words " a week" or a " year " or " a whole hour" ect...
So if I fast a whole month in Rahmadan am I following falshood or the truth?
Literal You, you those who believed, it is dictated/ordered on you the fasting , as it is dictated/ordered on those from before you, maybe you fear and obey (God).
Literal Days/times counted/numbered, so who was from you sick/diseased or on (a) journey/trip/voyage, so numbered/counted from other days/times, and on those who (can) endure/tolerate/bear it a ransom/redemption (of) feeding a poorest of poor/poor oppressed, so who volunteered goodness/generosity , so it is best for him, and that you fast (it is) best for you, if you are knowing.
Literal (The) month (of) Ramadan , which the Koran was descended in it, (is) guidance to the people, and evidences from the guidance and the Separator of Right and Wrong/Koran , so who witnessed from you the month, so he should fast it (E) , and who was sick/diseased or on (a) journey/trip/voyage, so numbered/counted from other days. God wills/wants with you the ease/flexibility and does not want with you the difficulty/hardship , and to complete the term , and to greaten/magnify God on what He guided you, and maybe you thank/be grateful .
2183 O you who believe, you are ordered to fast just as those before you, it could be that you are fearful and obeidient.
2184 (For an) entire period of time. / For a term to be completed. / For a complete term./ For a undivided period of time./For a whole month. Whoever from among you is ill or traveling;then (what was missed) in the other months. wow And as for those who cannot do without, then they may redeem by feeding any of the poorest of the poor. And whoever gives alms voluntarily, then it is best for him. And it is best that you fast, if you are able.
2185 The Quran was sent down in the month of Rahmadan, to guide the people and to clarify the guidance and the Difference between whats Right and Wronge. So one should fast the whole month (of Rahmadan ), whoever of you witnesses it. And whoever from among you is ill or traveling; then (what was missed ) in the other months.
God wants to bring you flexibility and not to bring you hardship; and so that you may complete the term, and glorify God for what He has guided you, that you may be thankful.nope
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2183 O you who believe, you are ordered to fast as those before you, it could be that you are fearful and obedient.
2184 A designated term; so whoever from among you is ill or traveling; then complete the number at other times; and as for those who cannot do without, then they may redeem by feeding any of the poorest of the poor, and whoever gives alms voluntarily, then it is best for him, and it is best that you fast, if you are able.
2185 The Quran was sent down in the month of Rahmadan, to guide the people and to clarify the guidance and the Difference between Right and Wronge. So one should fast the month, whoever of you witnesses it. And whoever from among you is ill or traveling; then complete the number on other days.
God wants to bring you ease and not to bring you hardship; and so that you may complete the term, and glorify God for what He has guided you, that you may be thankful. -
2183 O you who believe, you are ordered to fast as those before you, it could be that you are fearful and obedient.
2184 A designated month; so whoever from among you is ill or traveling; then complete the number at other times; and as for those who cannot do without, then they may redeem by feeding any of the poorest of the poor, and whoever gives alms voluntarily, then it is best for him, and it is best that you fast, if you are able.
2185 The Quran was sent down in the month of Rahmadan, to guide the people and to clarify the guidance and the Difference between Right and Wronge. So one should fast the month, whoever of you witnesses it. And whoever from among you is ill or traveling; then complete the number on other days.
God wants to bring you ease and not to bring you hardship; and so that you may complete the term, and glorify God for what He has guided you, that you may be thankful. -
Peace,
For further discussion about Ramadan, please refer to
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.0
Salaam
Maybe you should (please) do the same..or are you exempt
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1.In the name of God,
the Merciful, the Most Merciful.
2. All praises to God,
the worlds Lord.
3. The Merciful,
the Most Merciful.
4. The Master
of Judgment Day.
5. We worship You only,
and we seek help from You only.
6. Guide us to the path,
that is straight.
7. Those You blessed on them's path,
and not those with the wrath on them,
nor the misled. -
1.In the name of God,
the Merciful, the Most Merciful.
2. All praises to God,
the worlds Lord.
3. The Merciful,
the Most Merciful.
4. The Master
of Judgment Day.
5. We worship You only,
and we seek help from You only.
6. Guide us to the path,
that is straight.
7. Those You blessed on them's path,
and not those with the wrath on them,
nor the misled.383 Is it other than God's system that they desire, when those in the heavens and the Earth have submitted to Him voluntarily or by force? And to Him they will be returned
385 And whoever follows other than submission as a system, it will not be accepted from him, and in the Hereafter he is of the losers.
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1.In the name of God,
the Merciful, the Most Merciful.
2. All praises to God,
the worlds Lord.
3. The Merciful,
the Most Merciful.
4. The Master
of Judgment Day.
5. We worship You only,
and we seek help from You only.
6. Guide us to the path,
that is straight.
7. Those You blessed on them's path,
and not those with the wrath on them,
nor the misled.671 Say ?Shall we call upon other than God what cannot benefit us or harm us, and we turn back on our heels after God has guided us?? This is like the one whom the devils have managed to mislead on Earth, he is confused, having friends who call him to the guidance ?Come to us!? Say ?The guidance is God?s guidance, and we have been ordered to submit to the Lord of the worlds.?