Should we stone A. Wallace?
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2183 O you who believe, you are ordered to fast just like those before you were ordered to fast, it could be that you are fearful and obeidient.
Peace all,
Please notice that in the scripture, the 2 occurences where the god have ordered people before us to fast (Mariam and yahya if I remember well), the fast was about to stop talking for a number of days, nothing to have with eating. We might have to follow these 2 examples.
The part of "Koulou wa shrabou..." would be like an idiom meaning to "act without restraint".
This is how I see this issue.
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2184 Fast for a whole month. Whoever from among you is ill or traveling;then complete the fast in the other months. And as for those who cannot do without, then they may redeem by feeding any of the poorest of the poor. And whoever gives alms voluntarily, then it is best for him. And it is best that you fast, if you are able.
This is BLASPHEMY. Who gave you the right to change the words of God? This is not only a mistranslation, but this is a complete fabrication - al-Qur'an says nothing of this sort.
"And who does greater wrong than he who invents a lie against God when he is summoned unto submission? And God does not guide the wrongdoing people." (al-Qur'an 617)
If you disagree with the meaning/translation of a Scripture, bring your proof and state your opinions on the matter, but don't intentionally create a totally contradictory verse, add your own words and thoughts to it, and claim it is The God's word. That is complete foolishness! Surely, God is fully aware of the transgressors...
Peace.
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Arabic (from right to left)
279
Arberry
So woe to those who write the Book with their hands, then say, 'This is from God,' that they may sell it for a little price; so woe to them for what their hands have written, and woe to them for their earnings.
Khalifa
Therefore, woe to those who distort the scripture with their own hands, then say, "This is what GOD has revealed," seeking a cheap material gain. Woe to them for such distortion, and woe to them for their illicit gains.
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It is those who believe not in the Signs of God, that forge falsehood it is they who lie!
Say, ?Liars, who invent falsehood about Allah, do not prosper!?
You concoct lies about Allah! You blurt out and falsely claim some things to be permissible, others not! Those who fabricate lies about Allah will never prosper!
And say, ?The truth is here and falsehood has ceased to be! Indeed, falsehood is ever bound to vanish!?
On the contrary, We run the truth against falsehood, over which it triumphs. In time, the falsehood is bound to come to naught! Misery to you for what you attribute!
That is because the disbelievers follow falsehood, whereas the believers follow the truth from their Lord! Thus Allah cites their examples for the people.
And cover not Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when ye know (what it is).
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This is BLASPHEMY. Who gave you the right to change the words of God? o This is not only a mistranslation, but this is a complete fabrication - al-Qur'an says nothing of this sort.
"And who does greater wrong than he who invents a lie against God when he is summoned unto submission? And God does not guide the wrongdoing people." (al-Qur'an 617)
If you disagree with the meaning/translation of a Scripture, bring your proof and state your opinions on the matter, but don't intentionally create a totally contradictory verse, add your own words and thoughts to it, and claim it is The God's word. That is complete foolishness! Surely, God is fully aware of the transgressors...
Peace.
It is those who believe not in the Signs of God, that forge falsehood it is they who lie!
Say, ?Liars, who invent falsehood about Allah, do not prosper!?
You concoct lies about Allah! You blurt out and falsely claim some things to be permissible, others not! Those who fabricate lies about Allah will never prosper!
And say, ?The truth is here and falsehood has ceased to be! Indeed, falsehood is ever bound to vanish!?
On the contrary, We run the truth against falsehood, over which it triumphs. In time, the falsehood is bound to come to naught! Misery to you for what you attribute!
That is because the disbelievers follow falsehood, whereas the believers follow the truth from their Lord! Thus Allah cites their examples for the people.
And cover not Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when ye know (what it is).
If I fabricated lies then I am responsible for my crimes and you are responsible for your crimes... And God will gather us all together group and judge between us in what we dispute hmm...And those who distort Gods revelations are not hidden from The God nope...yea I know, and I fear, if I disobey my Lord, the retribution of a great day!
Is it a lie? Are we ordained to fast for a month or not? If so then how am I lien when you bear witness that it is the truth, that we are prescribed to fast a whole month/... And bring a translation that is better than my previous one in guidance if u truthful...And are thsoe who know equal to those who dont know? How am I concealing something when I am makin it clear that this time is refering to a month... Why because it dont say " Month " literaly...
If I fabricated a lie then everyone who translates the Quran is lien... do they use the words "counted" and numbered, days in their translation, or the exact word that are literally used??? So whoever changes these words are lien??? To use other words to help them express what it is they are tryin to say so the people understand the language clearly... And most of u only dispute after the clarity come to u...
What I dont understand is how am I lien about God? And far as im am concerned the truth has over rided the falshood...
And how is usin the word moth contridictin anything regarding 2183-2185, it would be differnt if i used the words " a week" or a " year " or " a whole hour" ect...
So if I fast a whole month in Rahmadan am I following falshood or the truth?
Literal You, you those who believed, it is dictated/ordered on you the fasting , as it is dictated/ordered on those from before you, maybe you fear and obey (God).
Literal Days/times counted/numbered, so who was from you sick/diseased or on (a) journey/trip/voyage, so numbered/counted from other days/times, and on those who (can) endure/tolerate/bear it a ransom/redemption (of) feeding a poorest of poor/poor oppressed, so who volunteered goodness/generosity , so it is best for him, and that you fast (it is) best for you, if you are knowing.
Literal (The) month (of) Ramadan , which the Koran was descended in it, (is) guidance to the people, and evidences from the guidance and the Separator of Right and Wrong/Koran , so who witnessed from you the month, so he should fast it (E) , and who was sick/diseased or on (a) journey/trip/voyage, so numbered/counted from other days. God wills/wants with you the ease/flexibility and does not want with you the difficulty/hardship , and to complete the term , and to greaten/magnify God on what He guided you, and maybe you thank/be grateful .
2183 O you who believe, you are ordered to fast just as those before you, it could be that you are fearful and obeidient.
2184 (For an) entire period of time. / For a term to be completed. / For a complete term./ For a undivided period of time./For a whole month. Whoever from among you is ill or traveling;then (what was missed) in the other months. wow And as for those who cannot do without, then they may redeem by feeding any of the poorest of the poor. And whoever gives alms voluntarily, then it is best for him. And it is best that you fast, if you are able.
2185 The Quran was sent down in the month of Rahmadan, to guide the people and to clarify the guidance and the Difference between whats Right and Wronge. So one should fast the whole month (of Rahmadan ), whoever of you witnesses it. And whoever from among you is ill or traveling; then (what was missed ) in the other months.
God wants to bring you flexibility and not to bring you hardship; and so that you may complete the term, and glorify God for what He has guided you, that you may be thankful.nope
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2183 O you who believe, you are ordered to fast as those before you, it could be that you are fearful and obedient.
2184 A designated term; so whoever from among you is ill or traveling; then complete the number at other times; and as for those who cannot do without, then they may redeem by feeding any of the poorest of the poor, and whoever gives alms voluntarily, then it is best for him, and it is best that you fast, if you are able.
2185 The Quran was sent down in the month of Rahmadan, to guide the people and to clarify the guidance and the Difference between Right and Wronge. So one should fast the month, whoever of you witnesses it. And whoever from among you is ill or traveling; then complete the number on other days.
God wants to bring you ease and not to bring you hardship; and so that you may complete the term, and glorify God for what He has guided you, that you may be thankful. -
2183 O you who believe, you are ordered to fast as those before you, it could be that you are fearful and obedient.
2184 A designated month; so whoever from among you is ill or traveling; then complete the number at other times; and as for those who cannot do without, then they may redeem by feeding any of the poorest of the poor, and whoever gives alms voluntarily, then it is best for him, and it is best that you fast, if you are able.
2185 The Quran was sent down in the month of Rahmadan, to guide the people and to clarify the guidance and the Difference between Right and Wronge. So one should fast the month, whoever of you witnesses it. And whoever from among you is ill or traveling; then complete the number on other days.
God wants to bring you ease and not to bring you hardship; and so that you may complete the term, and glorify God for what He has guided you, that you may be thankful. -
Peace,
For further discussion about Ramadan, please refer to
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.0
Salaam
Maybe you should (please) do the same..or are you exempt
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1.In the name of God,
the Merciful, the Most Merciful.
2. All praises to God,
the worlds Lord.
3. The Merciful,
the Most Merciful.
4. The Master
of Judgment Day.
5. We worship You only,
and we seek help from You only.
6. Guide us to the path,
that is straight.
7. Those You blessed on them's path,
and not those with the wrath on them,
nor the misled. -
1.In the name of God,
the Merciful, the Most Merciful.
2. All praises to God,
the worlds Lord.
3. The Merciful,
the Most Merciful.
4. The Master
of Judgment Day.
5. We worship You only,
and we seek help from You only.
6. Guide us to the path,
that is straight.
7. Those You blessed on them's path,
and not those with the wrath on them,
nor the misled.383 Is it other than God's system that they desire, when those in the heavens and the Earth have submitted to Him voluntarily or by force? And to Him they will be returned
385 And whoever follows other than submission as a system, it will not be accepted from him, and in the Hereafter he is of the losers.
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1.In the name of God,
the Merciful, the Most Merciful.
2. All praises to God,
the worlds Lord.
3. The Merciful,
the Most Merciful.
4. The Master
of Judgment Day.
5. We worship You only,
and we seek help from You only.
6. Guide us to the path,
that is straight.
7. Those You blessed on them's path,
and not those with the wrath on them,
nor the misled.671 Say ?Shall we call upon other than God what cannot benefit us or harm us, and we turn back on our heels after God has guided us?? This is like the one whom the devils have managed to mislead on Earth, he is confused, having friends who call him to the guidance ?Come to us!? Say ?The guidance is God?s guidance, and we have been ordered to submit to the Lord of the worlds.?
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11110 Say " Call upon God, or call upon the Merciful; whatever you call upon, then the best names are for Him. And do not raise your voise through prayer, and do not be quiet and hide with it, and form an intention between that."
11111 And say " All praise to God who did not take a son, nor does He have a partner in soverinty, nor does He have an all out of weakness. And glorify Him greatly."
It is absolute proof to say this after making intention for your prayer. Do you see it? Here is an alternative view
11110 Say " Call upon God, or call upon the Merciful; whatever you call upon, then the best names are for Him. And do not show-off with your prayers, and do not overawe and hide with it, and seek a way between that."
11111 And say " All praise to God who did not take a son, nor does He have a partner in soverinty, nor does He have an all out of weakness. And glorify Him greatly."
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Revision
?Believe in it or do not believe in it. Those who have been given the knowledge before it, when it is recited to them, they fall to their chins prostrating.?
" Call upon God, or call upon the Merciful; whatever you call upon, then the best names are for Him. And do not raise your voice through prayer, and do not be quiet and hide with it, and form an intention between that."
" All praises to God who did not take a son, nor does He have a partner in soverinty, nor does He have an all out of weakness. And glorify Him greatly."
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Peace all,
Please notice that in the scripture, the 2 occurences where the god have ordered people before us to fast (Mariam and yahya if I remember well), the fast was about to stop talking for a number of days, nothing to have with eating. We might have to follow these 2 examples.
The part of "Koulou wa shrabou..." would be like an idiom meaning to "act without restraint".
This is how I see this issue.
Peace,
I just noticed this post, and it gives a very interesting point of view. The reading does tell us to abstain like the ones before us were instructed to do, and the examples provided in the reading are of those who abstained from specific things (i.e. speaking) - the scripture never specifically says that the past generations of submitters were instructed to abstain from eating and drinking. It simply mentions, for us, sexual relations within the period of "shahru ramadhan" being prohibited during the daylight hours. Is it possible that we were being told to fast/abstain from something else other than food and drink?
Peace,
Ahmad
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Something for you to reflect on.
Good verses farida,....
However this discussion is deeper than what I thought, and I will have to take my time to analize these posts further...
I have never really watched the moon phases and differences ect...and got into debth about the particular months the 4 months is ect...
But as of now, starting next year God willing, I will start my fast in august ( for it is the " hottest month. " that I know of, witness, and also feel over hear in Michigan )....unless my Lord guide me and forgive me, then I will surly be of those lost...
Salaam Anthonywallace,
I have taken your reply from the other thread on Ramadan and would like to share this understanding with you and everyone.
Today, I was thinking of the time when my niece was born it was cold in February and the night of Ramadan the baby was born and straight from the hospital we went to have freshly made hot Donner kebab for dawn meal. Going by the moon cycle Ramadan has moved on, but we still remember her birth as the time when it was cold in February, we were all fasting and had a most delicious kebab for early morning meal. eat
Of all the events, above, everything can be repeated except for the birth of my niece and, when she celebrates her birthday every year its February and cold and short days and the sun and the moon too has been moving on in its individual cycle. Only when she is around 29 years old both the lunar and the solar cycles will coincide again and she can feel what it was like when she was born, on that cold February day in Ramadan.
By fasting we commemorate the event of Ramadan and the revelation of the Quran in Leylat Al Qadr so this should be a universal event.
1712 We have made the NIGHT and the Day as two (of Our) Signs the Sign of the NIGHT have We obscured, while the Sign of the Day We have made to enlighten you; that ye may seek bounty from your Lord, and that ye may know the number and count of the years all things have We explained in detail.What I understand from the verse above is that, for the number and count of years, we need to take into account both signs, the night and the day which would mean a luni-solar cycle.
The revelation of the Quran ?the first universal event? took place when it was hot weather in Arabia, as the word "Ramadhan" itself refers to intense/extreme heat, but as we count our year by the lunar cycle the event will be remembered as the one when it was hot then. The month of fasting has moved on and the same events are repeated every 29/30 years when the moon and the sun are in a similar position.Countries in the Southern and the Northern hemisphere unite to fast at the same time around the globe but, by the lunar month, its only when, in their respective countries, its hot and its month of fasting, that they can commemorate the original event the revelation of the Qur?an in Arabia the parts of the world had different wheather and that is how every country should reflect what was it like in other countries when the Qur'an decended in the Summer in Arabia, to guide us all and vice versa.
So say for instance it was hot in Arabia but cold in Australia, how do we make sure that everyone shares the moment while we all unite in fasting together keeping in mind the purpose. We unite, we celebrate and we all fast together and share the experience of fasting around the globe so that we may attain salvation.2242 It is such that God clarifies to you His revelations that you may comprehend.
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In the name of God, the Merciful, the Most Merciful
21 A.L.M.
22 No doubt is in this particular Book; it is guidance to the fearing and obeying.
23 Those who believe in the unseen and they keep the prayers and they spend from what We provided for them.
24 And those who believe in what was sent down to you, and what was sent down to those before you,and they are certain regarding the end.
25 These are on a guidance from their Lord and these are the winners.
26 Those who disbelieve, it is the same to them. Had you warned them, or you did not warn them, they do not believe.
27 God stomps on their hearts and on their hearing and on their eysight is a cover, and for them is a great torture.
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1034 Say ?Are there any from those whom you have set up as partners who can initiate the creation and then return it?? Say ?God initiates the creation and then returns it.? How are you deluded!
1035 Say ?Are there any of those whom you set up as partners who can guide to the truth?? Say ?God guides to the truth. Is He who guides to the truth more worthy of being followed, or the one who does not guide except after he is guided? What is wrong with you, how do you judge??
1036 Most of them only follow conjecture. While conjecture does not avail against the truth in anything. God is aware of what they do.