Hot/"ramadan" Answer
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Peace Farida,
I am sorry I would disagree, the God I know would not discriminate against blind or deaf person. It is the rigid thinking of people who see God in their own image.
Blind person were were best in memorizing the Qur'ana and you believe they can not experience the blessing of fasting are they less qualified to worship god?
807 And why does it concern you that he does not want to purify?
peaceThe god clearly said in 2185 that fasting is for "whoever witnesses from amongst you". So a blind person would be exempt from fasting. Now they can still fast if they wanted to but they don't have to. If you or I don't witness the "shahr" because we were locked in a room or whatever then we are exempt from fasting too. Does this mean that I am discriminating against us? But again we can fast anyway if we wanted to. It is just not compulsory.
In fact, if you didn't witness the scorching full moon last July then you are exempt from fasting. What you and others such as Belal are doing right now is instead fasting a completely random lunar month. You can do this if you want but don't claim that the god ordered you to fast what is in fact a completely random month without any authority from him.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Samia,
ma3duuda means few; 3adeeda means many. No context would change their meaning.
To those who can read Arabic (cut-and-paste from lisaanul 3arab)
. .
What I also find interesting in this quote the phrase about the ten days of Dhul Hijja1220 confirms the dictionary meaning since if "ma3doodat" meant "any number" then the passage could have simply said "Dirhams" or simply stop at saying that they "bought him cheaply". The only reason to qualify it is to show that it is a few Dirhams and not just any conjectured counted number, including 30 or 100 Billions (which would still be cheap for a son or daughter). The meaning from the context in the great reading and from dictionaries matches perfectly.
Peace,
Ayman
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Hi ayman,
The god clearly said in 2185 that fasting is for "whoever witnesses from amongst you". So a blind person would be exempt from fasting.
I think it is not "whoever witnesses" but "whoever was present" (note the verse is in past tense). Even if the English word used is 'witness', it does not necessarily mean "by sight" only. Blind, deaf and dumb are all subjected to fasting and the exception eased on the sickly, travelers and the destitute provided they complete the favor in due course.Now they can still fast if they wanted to but they don't have to.
The question begs where in the Quran is the clear command that prohibits from eating and drinking? The word 'fasting' itself is undefined. -
Peace Farida,
The god clearly said in 2185 that fasting is for "whoever witnesses from amongst you". So a blind person would be exempt from fasting. Now they can still fast if they wanted to but they don't have to. If you or I don't witness the "shahr" because we were locked in a room or whatever then we are exempt from fasting too. Does this mean that I am discriminating against us? But again we can fast anyway if we wanted to. It is just not compulsory.
In fact, if you didn't witness the scorching full moon last July then you are exempt from fasting. What you and others such as Belal are doing right now is instead fasting a completely random lunar month. You can do this if you want but don't claim that the god ordered you to fast what is in fact a completely random month without any authority from him.
Peace,
Ayman
Salaam Ayman,
So in your opinion a blind person is not allowed to give witness?
This sounds similar to the case of ?Blind Justice in The Land Of Pure? where ex-president of Pakistan Zia ul Haqq under ?hudood law? locked away a blind girl for fornication.
I can only recall from a extract of a novel ?A case of exploding mangoes? about this true case. I believe death by stoning was passed to punish this girl named Zainab who was actually raped. Since she was required to recognise all five culprits in the court, but her testimony was not acceptable as she was not able to witness the act or the person in who committed this horrible crime.peace
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Salaam Ayman,
So in your opinion a blind person is not allowed to give witness?
This sounds similar to the case of ?Blind Justice in The Land Of Pure? where ex-president of Pakistan Zia ul Haqq under ?hudood law? locked away a blind girl for fornication.
I can only recall from a extract of a novel ?A case of exploding mangoes? about this true case. I believe death by stoning was passed to punish this girl named Zainab who was actually raped. Since she was required to recognise all five culprits in the court, but her testimony was not acceptable as she was not able to witness the act or the person in who committed this horrible crime.peace
Peace Farida
Be aware of another blind person Qazi Husain Ahmed he is still mourning hadood law. (
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Peace Farida
Be aware of another blind person Qazi Husain Ahmed he is still mourning hadood law.
Salaam Afridi
I am not aware of that one, but do send a link or details, even of this case of Zainab I remembered from this novel and I am waiting to see how much rigid interpratation of Quran will result in yet more discrimination.
peace -
Peace Prissy,
I think it is not "whoever witnesses" but "whoever was present" (note the verse is in past tense).
Yes thank you for correcting me. The verb is in the past tense. So it is better translated as "whoever amongst you witnessed". However, I disagree that it simply means "was present". One can be present during an event but not witness it. Also, The passage clearly says "whoever amongst you witnessed". This means that there are some "amongst you" who would witness and others would not. Since all are present, being present is not enough.
Also, please remember that the passage clearly said "whoever witnessed" not "whoever was told by someone who witnessed".
Even if the English word used is 'witness', it does not necessarily mean "by sight" only.
I agree. How one witnesses is dependent on what is witnessed. There is nothing to witness about a "month". For example, there is nothing to witness about December. It is simply the arbitrary period that some people agreed upon would be called December. Similarly, there is nothing to witness about Shaaban. It is simply the arbitrary period that some people agreed upon to be called Shaaban. On the other hand, one can witness cosmic phenomenon with his or her eyes or witness a musical recitation with his or her ears.
Blind, deaf and dumb are all subjected to fasting and the exception eased on the sickly, travelers and the destitute provided they complete the favor in due course.
No, even 100% healthy people are not obligated to fast if they can't witness. Thus, people amongst us here who don't even know what "shahr ramadan" means let alone how to witness it, would be exempted from fasting.
The question begs where in the Quran is the clear command that prohibits from eating and drinking? The word 'fasting' itself is undefined.
The Arabic word "swm" simply means "abstaining from something". However, 2187 specifcally tells us that we can have sexual activity and eat and drink only during the night of the fast.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Farida,
So in your opinion a blind person is not allowed to give witness?
No. It depends on what they are witnessing. If they are witnessing that they heard a certain sound then of course they can witness. This would be the same situation if you or I were blind folded by a thief while we were asleep and he or she robbed us. We can't witness that we saw him or her but if he spoke then we can witness that we heard his voice. See my response above to Prissy for more info.
This sounds similar to the case of ?Blind Justice in The Land Of Pure? where ex-president of Pakistan Zia ul Haqq under ?hudood law? locked away a blind girl for fornication. I can only recall from a extract of a novel ?A case of exploding mangoes? about this true case. I believe death by stoning was passed to punish this girl named Zainab who was actually raped. Since she was required to recognise all five culprits in the court, but her testimony was not acceptable as she was not able to witness the act or the person in who committed this horrible crime.
I don't know the details of this case but certainly even if she was not raped and fornicated on purpose, she shouldn't be punished in any way. Unlike "zina" (pornography), fornication is a private matter.
It doesn't matter if a blind girl was raped by five men or a blind man was raped by five girls. Either way if he or she can't identify the attackers then she is not a witness because what if he or she identify the wrong people. In this case some other witness must be used such as a chemist who can analyse DNA samples. So again, it depends on what is being witnessed as I mentioned above to Prissy. Back to 2185, witnessing is not just by sight but the person THEMSELVES must witness and not be told by someone who was told by some other guy, etc. This is why the passage says "whoever amongst you witnessed". Implied in this is that some amongst you would not witness this cosmic phenomenon but fasting is only obligated on those who did.
Peace,
Ayman
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Salaam Ayman, all
Does the verse say (only during the night)?
If we drink and eat during the night, it means that we will have to sleep during the day. Doesn't this contradict the definiton of night and day in the qur'aan vis-vis living and sleeping (7811 and other verses)?Question 2 What is meant in the verse (2184) by "and for those who can afford it to feed a poor"?
Question 3 2185 "...and whoever is ill or travelling, then a count of other days. God intends for you ease and He dos not want to make things difficult for you, and to complete the count..." Which count to complete?
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Peace Farida,
No. It depends on what they are witnessing. If they are witnessing that they heard a certain sound then of course they can witness. This would be the same situation if you or I were blind folded by a thief while we were asleep and he or she robbed us. We can't witness that we saw him or her but if he spoke then we can witness that we heard his voice. See my response above to Prissy for more info.
I don't know the details of this case but certainly even if she was not raped and fornicated on purpose, she shouldn't be punished in any way. Unlike "zina" (pornography), fornication is a private matter.
It doesn't matter if a blind girl was raped by five men or a blind man was raped by five girls. Either way if he or she can't identify the attackers then she is not a witness because what if he or she identify the wrong people. In this case some other witness must be used such as a chemist who can analyse DNA samples. So again, it depends on what is being witnessed as I mentioned above to Prissy. Back to 2185, witnessing is not just by sight but the person THEMSELVES must witness and not be told by someone who was told by some other guy, etc. This is why the passage says "whoever amongst you witnessed". Implied in this is that some amongst you would not witness this cosmic phenomenon but fasting is only obligated on those who did.
Peace,
Ayman
Salaam Ayman
I myself have no details of Zainab's case but I think she knew the attackers and, as you know a blind person is compensated by having other senses to a higher standard than a normal person. The issue was not that she did not know the attackers but that, because she was blind, her evidence was not acceptable so even DNA testing would not be acceptable to those who apply a rigid interpretation of the Qur'an, just as you do not accept an online sighting of the moon.
peace
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Peace Samia,
Thank you for your questions.
Does the verse say (only during the night)?
If we drink and eat during the night, it means that we will have to sleep during the day. Doesn't this contradict the definiton of night and day in the qur'aan vis-vis living and sleeping (7811 and other verses)?Whether at day or night if one is hungry and thirsty then not eating and drinking contradicts one's instincts. The same goes for not speaking to anyone for days since we are communicative by nature. So whatever abstinance mentioned in the great reading it is certainly an exception that goes against what one would normally do.
2187 says to eat and drink until dawn and then to complete the fast until the night. Had it said to eat and drink until night and then to complete the fast until the dawn then we would be fasting at night.
If fasting is not about sexual contact and eating and drinking then what is the point of mentioning those things in 2187?
Question 2 What is meant in the verse (2184) by "and for those who can afford it to feed a poor"?
But 2184 doesn't say "those who can afford it". It says "those who can do it with difficulty". So even if you can abstain from food and drink but with difficulty, you are OK to feed the poor instead.
Question 3 2185 "...and whoever is ill or travelling, then a count of other days. God intends for you ease and He dos not want to make things difficult for you, and to complete the count..." Which count to complete?
The count to complete is the count of a few days talked about immediately before in 2184. A few is 3-10 so completion of a few is reaching the maximum of 10.
I am of course open to better interpretations, if you would like to share them.
Peace,
Ayman
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Brother ayman, in order for Muhammad to address what was revealed to him, people must have gathered/present to witness his call. The question of the blind, deaf and dumb to not (or cannot) "witness" does not arise (perhaps the word witness as translated seems either incorrect or misunderstood). The leverage of fasting set upon the sickly, travelers and the destitite is pretty much conditioned as per the Quran.
Samia makes a good first point in her previous post. Perhaps verse 2187 is grossly misunderstood. Doesn't the worse state that ".....until the white thread is distinct from the black thread, then complete the fast until 'fajar' (dawn)"? It then further goes on to state that "....do not approach your wives at night whilst (or IF) one decides/retreats to worship in mosques"? What's the point of eating and drinking all night long and not during daytime? Besides, was the quran revealed/addressed at night or during the day?
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Peace Farida,
I myself have no details of Zainab's case but I think she knew the attackers and, as you know a blind person is compensated by having other senses to a higher standard than a normal person. The issue was not that she did not know the attackers but that, because she was blind, her evidence was not acceptable so even DNA testing would not be acceptable to those who apply a rigid interpretation of the Qur'an, just as you do not accept an online sighting of the moon.
peaceDNA is acceptable as evidence as witnessed by an expert on DNA. The blind girl didn't witness the DNA of the attackers so your analogy is irrelevant. If she knew her attackers and can identify them based on sound then this is another matter and her testimony based on sound can be accepted although any defense attorney would probably cast doubt on it.
As for an online sighting of the scorching full moon, look at my avatar on the left side of your screen.
If you are talking about the image that Belal posted and claimed to be the sighting of the new moon, he was lying and it was actually a doctored image.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Farida,
DNA is acceptable as evidence as witnessed by an expert on DNA. The blind girl didn't witness the DNA of the attackers so your analogy is irrelevant. If she knew her attackers and can identify them based on sound then this is another matter and her testimony based on sound can be accepted although any defense attorney would probably cast doubt on it.
As for an online sighting of the scorching full moon, look at my avatar on the left side of your screen.
Peace,
Ayman
Salaam Ayman,
I am talking about those who apply the verses of the Qur'an rigidly, (in the case of Ramadan you do it), and for them DNA does not matter nor that the girl could identify the culprits. This case made international headlines and left a terrible impression of Islam on the wider world so I am by no means trying to outdo you, but I am discussing what we read and what we should see as the essence of the message which you do on many occasions.
If you are talking about the image that Belal posted and claimed to be the sighting of the new moon, he was lying and it was actually a doctored image.
No I am talking about the moonsighting site I followedhttp//www.moonsighting.com/
peace
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Peace Prissy,
Brother ayman, in order for Muhammad to address what was revealed to him, people must have gathered/present to witness his call. The question of the blind, deaf and dumb to not (or cannot) "witness" does not arise (perhaps the word witness as translated seems either incorrect or misunderstood). The leverage of fasting set upon the sickly, travelers and the destitite is pretty much conditioned as per the Quran.
It depends on what is being witnessed. If your talking to a blind person then they can witness. If you are talking to a deaf person then they can witness by reading your lips. If your or my eyes are covered and our ears are plugged then you and I cannot witness. So in this case both the blind and deaf persons can witness while you and I can't (although we are present). As I asked you and you didn't answer, what is the point of saying "whoever amongst you"? Since in the context of time everyone is always "present" anyway then why not just command to abstain and that is it?
Samia makes a good first point in her previous post. Perhaps verse 2187 is grossly misunderstood. Doesn't the worse state that ".....until the white thread is distinct from the black thread, then complete the fast until 'fajar' (dawn)"? It then further goes on to state that "....do not approach your wives at night whilst (or IF) one decides/retreats to worship in mosques"? What's the point of eating and drinking all night long and not during daytime? Besides, was the quran revealed/addressed at night or during the day?
No it doesn't say ".....until the white thread is distinct from the black thread, then complete the fast until 'fajar' (dawn)". It says ".....until the white thread is distinct from the black thread of 'fajar' (dawn), then complete the fast until 'layl' (night)". So you objection is not valid.
Peace,
Ayman
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If you are talking about the image that Belal posted and claimed to be the sighting of the new moon, he was lying and it was actually a doctored image.
http//www.birding.in/images/Birds/golden_eagle.jpg
http//aa.usno.navy.mil/idltemp/current_moon.php
Instead of answering my Questions, you are making more new lies.
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Peace Farida,
I am talking about those who apply the verses of the Qur'an rigidly, (in the case of Ramadan you do it), and for them DNA does not matter nor that the girl could identify the culprits. This case made international headlines and left a terrible impression of Islam on the wider world so I am by no means trying to outdo you, but I am discussing what we read and what we should see as the essence of the message which you do on many occasions.
Farida, do you have faith in the great reading? If so, do you really think that those who commit such terrible injustices are applying the great reading rigidly?
I would say quite the opposite. They are not applying the truth from our lord in the great reading rigidly. They don't even understand what the word "islam" means and they take it as a meaningless label that we are born with or achieved by mechanically uttering some words. You are not helping them and in fact you are contributing to the very problems that you are criticizing by not translating the language-independent universal concept of "islam" which was known even before Arabic was invented. If you want change, then let's start with ourselves first.
No I am talking about the moonsighting site I followedhttp//www.moonsighting.com/
I am afraid you are following another doctored image
We, at Moonsighting.com, calculate where the crescent moon sighting is possible for every lunar month. Visibility of the New Crescent Moon is calculated using the criteria, developed after decades of research by Khalid Shaukat, of Moonsighting Committee Worldwide (MCW).
Hmm... I don't remember 2185 saying anything about witnessing a doctored image, a committee, or even an image doctored by a committee.
Come on everyone, help Farida out. How hard can this be? We are in the digital age where everyone and their 4 year old son or daughter has a digital camera or a camera phone and yet no one of the billion so-called Muslims can witness the new moon and post a real image????????????!
How sad. But this is what the god does to even a billion people who ignore his clear command in 2185.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Prissy,
what is the point of saying "whoever amongst you"? Since in the context of time everyone is always "present" anyway then why not just command to abstain and that is it?
Ayman
Salaam Ayman
Sorry the question was directed at Prissy, but maybe it meant those who live in places near the North and South pole where, during a summer month, the sun never sets, so dawn does not happen and thus do not experience day and night as the rest of the world. Often its been debated in those parts of the world how they are supposed to fast in the absence of a clear division of day and night.
Even in countries like the Uk and Sweden duirng summer months there is just twilight (no real darkness) and then the sun rises. I will be so happy if I am exempted from fasting in those months as days are really long and, in a few years Ramadan will fall in mid summer. wowpeace
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Peace Farida,
Farida, do you have faith in the great reading? If so, do you really think that those who commit such terrible injustices are applying the great reading rigidly?
Peace,
Ayman
Of course they are not following the Quran but if we insist on literal meanings of the Arabic than according to some a deaf person would not be able to divorce his wife as he can not utter world talaq.
I am afraid you are following another doctored image
I was not following any image just the calculation of moon cycle by new techonology/websites.
Hmm... I don't remember 2185 saying anything about witnessing a doctored image, a committee, or even an image doctored by a committee.
Come on everyone, help Farida out. How hard can this be? We are in the digital age where everyone and their 4 year old son or daughter has a digital camera or a camera phone and yet no one of the billion so-called Muslims can witness the new moon and post a real image????????????!
How sad. But this is what the god does to even a billion people who ignore his clear command in 2185.
Does the great reading mention an image by the digital camera or do we have a tug of war here who wins the arguments??????
I have posted above my understanding of those "who witness/whoever amongst you" in an earlier post and would welcome your comments.
peace