Rememberance of God
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peace )
hmm, interesting, i still find it a bit puzzling, you say creation is 'things', God is 'no things'... i guess i'd have to ask a very hard question then, WHAT is God?
i understand we all have a different image of Him, maybe that's wrong, maybe it's impossible what i'm trying to do, to grasp the ungraspable, but i would assume that God would tell us about Himself in the quran (or any other book) that would give us an idea of what He is, what He is like, who He is, you kniow.God is the core of your being. God is THAT which percieves but itself cannot be percieved. Right? God is the Seer, Hearer, etc. Correct? That is Conciousness!
are you saying here that God is conciousness?
Consciousness is not a faculty we have, it is WHO WE ARE.
because here i think you imply that we are conciousness.
are we... God? -
Peace,
God is "no-things", creation is "things"
I think that what is meant by this sentence is that the god is not any THING, because a thing has to have boundaries, shape...
The god IS; in truth, only the god is ?existing?.
The god is the highest potential. To allow ?things? to exist, to allow ?movement?, to allow ?time? to exist, a point lesser in potential has to be created. This point is what we consider as ?Point Zero?, ?the void? or ?no-thingness?. And then, energy from the higher potential can flow to the lowest potential making time, space and thus allowing the transitory existence of some ?things?. This is why it is said that we are created through ?no-thing?.
The void cannot withstand ?existence?; the most impossible task for anyone is to find a ?void? or to make ?emptiness?; thus we understand the omnipotence and omnipresence of the god the living the one who ?IS?.--
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Peace be upon you Nerpsi,
hmm, interesting, i still find it a bit puzzling, you say creation is 'things', God is 'no things'... i guess i'd have to ask a very hard question then, WHAT is God?
God is the only being that is. In the oldest recorded tradition, God is expressed as Consciousness/Will on one side and Energy/Matter on the other...and MAn, be created in God's "image" is also broken down that way. God is the no-thing, meaning a state where energy is at rest therefore matter is not formed (all formed creation vibrates/moves). Without any formation there is no "space", and therefore no time. And conciousness has nothing to be conscious of because there are no things. This is the highest level of meditation that can be achieved and MUST be achieved for direct experience of God.
i understand we all have a different image of Him, maybe that's wrong
There is no "Him" to have an image of, there is only behavior to emulate.
maybe it's impossible what i'm trying to do, to grasp the ungraspable
Try only to understand that there is a Grasper, the same IT that is in all of us.
, but i would assume that God would tell us about Himself in the quran (or any other book) that would give us an idea of what He is, what He is like, who He is, you kniow.
Indeed God has been spoken about in many spiritual teachings, only many of the teachings are in metaphors.
are you saying here that God is conciousness?
God is THAT bodiless Intelligence that created the THINGS from Its no- thing. It is THAT which WILLS the energy/matter at rest to MOVE with the WORD/SOUND. BE..and it becomes. It is THAT which sees, hears, feels through the faculties of Its creation.
because here i think you imply that we are conciousness.
are we... God?If God is OMNIPRESENT, then where are "you"? If there is a place where there is only "you", then you are saying that God is not present at that point of space, thus NOT OMNIPRESENT, understand? God is the core of existence. God blew into us of Its essence...so indeed that conciousness we experience is not a faculty, it is our Identity!
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peace )
There is no "Him" to have an image of, there is only behavior to emulate.
well i meant like different people have different opinions what God is. i'm still trying to understand. but basically my wondering is about is God an entity or a being that i can talk to and that talks back to me?
some people give a different impression, like this 'God=conciousness' thing, now when i hear that i start to think of an analogy like us being the drops of water and we fall in an ocean which is God, something like that, if i'm misunderstanding you, i'm sorryThis is the highest level of meditation that can be achieved and MUST be achieved for direct experience of God.
can you tell us more about that meditation, like how it's done, how is it achieved?
Try only to understand that there is a Grasper, the same IT that is in all of us.
i'm trying. kinda focused on this 'IN all of us', 'in' how? as in part of us like emotions or "devil" is a part of us or just knows us inside out (but still remaining seperate from us)?
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Peace,
respectfully.To brother God Within
If prayer (programming) is sitting or lying on the bed and sielntly breathing and thinking of nothing, then how do ablution and 17110 come into this?
GW, can you please explain this indetail, what does 17110 mean, how do you perform it and also the ablution? I mean, if this programming is just sitting and meditating, then how do you implement 17110 into it and what is the difference between ablution with water and dry ablution?
Provide proofs from The Quran.
Thanks.
God bless you.
Peace. -
Peace be upon you Nerpsi,
well i meant like different people have different opinions what God is. i'm still trying to understand.
Yes, that is the problem many face. There is a verse in the quran that states that most have the wrong understanding of God. We are taught as children that God is some object out in space and all kinds of foolish beliefs that we must unlearn.
but basically my wondering is about is God an entity or a being that i can talk to and that talks back to me?
Yes, you can have a conversation with God and God does talk back to you..but I dont want to get into that conversation just yet. That takes us into oracles/divination, etc such as what Zakariah used in quran and many used throughout the bible, etc.
some people give a different impression, like this 'God=conciousness' thing, now when i hear that i start to think of an analogy like us being the drops of water and we fall in an ocean which is God, something like that, if i'm misunderstanding you, i'm sorry
That is an accurate analogy, the SEER SEES through your eyes and mine, it HEARS through your ears and mine.
Quote from God Within on July 18, 2008, 122641 PM
This is the highest level of meditation that can be achieved and MUST be achieved for direct experience of God.can you tell us more about that meditation, like how it's done, how is it achieved?
Sit still in a chair with your hands face down on your lap. Your back is in an S shape so you can get the breath to your lower abdomen. Take slow breaths in and out evenly getting down to about 3 breaths per minute if you can, or as slow as you can get. When thoughts come to your mind dont hold on to them, just let them pass through and dont engage them.....and that will be a great lesson right there, you will see how YOU DO NOT CALL THOUGHTS they come by themselves....meaning that you have a thought processor in your spirit that just throws up thoughts. Like when you are walking down the street and start humming a song you dont like but have heard a million times. Anyway, after ignoring thoughts for a while, with practice you will come to a point when there are no thoughts and images coming through and you are only concious of being conciouness itself!!
Quote from God Within on July 18, 2008, 122641 PM
Try only to understand that there is a Grasper, the same IT that is in all of us.i'm trying. kinda focused on this 'IN all of us', 'in' how? as in part of us like emotions or "devil" is a part of us or just knows us inside out (but still remaining seperate from us)?
Part of us like the SOURCE of us. Part us us like the SEED from wihich the entire tree grows. The tree is not seperate from the seed.
Here is a site online where you can read a book called "Kybalion". It will help you understand more whatr I am saying. It is a quick read, you can go right to chapters called "The ALL in ALL" or "The ALL" for starters.
http//www.kybalion.org/kybalion.asp?chapter=I
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Peace be upon you Alen,
If prayer (programming) is sitting or lying on the bed and sielntly breathing and thinking of nothing, then how do ablution and 17110 come into this?
"Thinking of Nothing" is a preperatory exercise to understand that you are not your thoughts/images, etc. Once you understand that, then Programming involves using your thoughts and images to create scenarios to change your behavior (responses).
17110 tells us not to publicise or hide our programming...meaning dont go build some big temple in the middle of the city and make a big productio, but dont hide it so no one can see what needs to be done, be moderate with it. The verse does not talk about SOUND LEVEL.
GW, can you please explain this indetail, what does 17110 mean, how do you perform it and also the ablution? I mean, if this programming is just sitting and meditating, then how do you implement 17110 into it and what is the difference between ablution with water and dry ablution?
Theres no "details" to 17110 just dont publicize of hide it. Ablution is just mental preperation for what you are about to do. Wet and dry are just metaphors.
Provide proofs from The Quran.
Proof is in Al Kitaab, not quran
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peace)
hmm, i don't know about this tree analogy, i mean a tree grows from the seed, right, so do we grow... from God?
about the ocean analogy, that would seem like that we, humanity as a whole, are God? but how could it be like us being drops and God being the ocean... how does that go with 1124 ?And there is none who are His equal.?
but in those two analogies it would seem like we are equal (or similar at least), unless i'm missing something.a, i've haerd of that meditation, didn't know it can be done for experiencing God. but how do you experience God through that form of meditation? you talk to Him and hear Him talk back, like a direct conversation?
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Peace be upon you Nerspi,
hmm, i don't know about this tree analogy, i mean a tree grows from the seed, right, so do we grow... from God?
Absolutely, what else is there at the core of Being? "We are God's and to God we are returning"
about the ocean analogy, that would seem like that we, humanity as a whole, are God?
The physical vessels you bump into in this world are vehicles of the ONE CONSCIOUSNESS that is God.
but how could it be like us being drops and God being the ocean... how does that go with 1124 ?And there is none who are His equal.?
but in those two analogies it would seem like we are equal (or similar at least), unless i'm missing something.well let me ask you, if I took you to the beach and compared a drop to the vast ocean, would you say they are equal?
a, i've haerd of that meditation, didn't know it can be done for experiencing God. but how do you experience God through that form of meditation? you talk to Him and hear Him talk back, like a direct conversation?
The INsperience occurs when you cease all thoughts and images and therefore there is nothing to be percieved and you become aware that you are the perciever.
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Peace be upon you,
no, God is "no-things", creation is "things"
God is that which organizes the protons, nuetrons, and eletrons into things.
Consciousness is not a faculty we have, it is WHO WE ARE. Consciousness is that which PERCIEVES creation, but Itself cannot be percieved.
God experiences the world through Its creation. Did not God say that man is created to SERVE God? Yes, we are the vehicles through which God experiences Its creation.
Your initial post resonated very well with me, but this latter stuff is very theosophical and pseudo-gnostic, which is very Un-Quranic. God is above all and created conciousness etc. Saying God experiences the world through us incorrect, we experience the world in order to understand God, who is far above this world....suggesting otherwise is blasphemous (for the lack of a better word).
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Peace be upon you Nerpsi,
Yes, that is the problem many face. There is a verse in the quran that states that most have the wrong understanding of God. We are taught as children that God is some object out in space and all kinds of foolish beliefs that we must unlearn.
Yes, you can have a conversation with God and God does talk back to you..but I dont want to get into that conversation just yet. That takes us into oracles/divination, etc such as what Zakariah used in quran and many used throughout the bible, etc.
That is an accurate analogy, the SEER SEES through your eyes and mine, it HEARS through your ears and mine.
Sit still in a chair with your hands face down on your lap. Your back is in an S shape so you can get the breath to your lower abdomen. Take slow breaths in and out evenly getting down to about 3 breaths per minute if you can, or as slow as you can get. When thoughts come to your mind dont hold on to them, just let them pass through and dont engage them.....and that will be a great lesson right there, you will see how YOU DO NOT CALL THOUGHTS they come by themselves....meaning that you have a thought processor in your spirit that just throws up thoughts. Like when you are walking down the street and start humming a song you dont like but have heard a million times. Anyway, after ignoring thoughts for a while, with practice you will come to a point when there are no thoughts and images coming through and you are only concious of being conciouness itself!!
Part of us like the SOURCE of us. Part us us like the SEED from wihich the entire tree grows. The tree is not seperate from the seed.
Here is a site online where you can read a book called "Kybalion". It will help you understand more whatr I am saying. It is a quick read, you can go right to chapters called "The ALL in ALL" or "The ALL" for starters.
http//www.kybalion.org/kybalion.asp?chapter=I
Kybalion is a new age/hermetic/theosophical/luciferian/magick Book. Many of it's teachings are anti-Quranic. It was only written in the early 1900's. I know a fair amount about this stuff and feel compelled to warn you that it is not a good place to draw ideas from. Some of what it says is true...because the best lies are those mixed with truth, so if you are going to read it, so so using the furqan (criteria) to separate it's truth from its fiction.
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Peace be upon you Follower,
Your initial post resonated very well with me, but this latter stuff is very theosophical and pseudo-gnostic, which is very Un-Quranic. God is above all and created conciousness etc.
What makes you say it is un - "quranic"? Any proclamation from the book(al kitaab) is "quranic", and I am not talking about the 114 chapter book that has been given that title. But that aside, please indicate exactly what statement is not in line with truth (quranic).
Saying God experiences the world through us incorrect, we experience the world in order to understand God, who is far above this world....suggesting otherwise is blasphemous (for the lack of a better word).
Direct experience is always the best proof, this is what Al Kitaab provides, in other words this is what life on earth provides. Al Kitaab is the life around and within us. But I am sure you are looking for references from within the 114 chapter guide, so I will present some references for you to ponder...
It was not you who killed them; GOD is the One who killed them. It was not you who threw when you threw; GOD is the One who threw. But He thus gives the believers a chance to earn a lot of credit. GOD is Hearer, Omniscient.
And countless times we read..
(603)...GOD is Seer of everything you do
The creation and resurrection of all of you is the same as that of one person. GOD is Hearer, Seer.
So I ask you is it YOU who sees and hears, or is GOD SEER and HEARER?
Did not this guide say that God is closer to "us" than the Jugular Vein?
When God says it is It who threw, not YOU, what does that say to you?
(5156) ...I have only created Jinns and men, that they may serve Me.
Serve HOW? The same way "our" bodies SERVE "us" , as vehicles to operate within for experience.
Why else pust we purify our minds and bodies? So God can have a sure place to operate from.
Yes, there is one conciousness that manifests through a multitude of vehicles...is there any of you that has had a direct experience greater than that? If so please provide it.
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peace
intersting.
but this 817 would seem as if they didn't have free will.
hmm, still thinking about what/how God is. if He is ONE conciousness seperated into pieces... maybe it would seem mysterious why He would tell us to now worship anything else other then Him seeing that... He, in a way, is us... or why would we do evil in the world? -
Sit still in a chair with your hands face down on your lap. Your back is in an S shape so you can get the breath to your lower abdomen. Take slow breaths in and out evenly getting down to about 3 breaths per minute if you can, or as slow as you can get. When thoughts come to your mind dont hold on to them, just let them pass through and dont engage them.....and that will be a great lesson right there, you will see how YOU DO NOT CALL THOUGHTS they come by themselves....meaning that you have a thought processor in your spirit that just throws up thoughts. Like when you are walking down the street and start humming a song you dont like but have heard a million times. Anyway, after ignoring thoughts for a while, with practice you will come to a point when there are no thoughts and images coming through and you are only concious of being conciouness itself!!
I used to be very skeptical of your posts and I still am but you've described the process of ego-loss which I've become familiar with just this year (not meditation induced ). You hit the peak when you're looking at your body and have no idea what it is or what to do with it. Even that state is lower than ego death where you literally feel, percieve, know, absolutely nothing. All your mental faculties are offline and all you can percieve is consciousness, without even the ability to identify whether it belongs to you or not. An enjoyable experience but it can drive you insane if you're not prepared for it. It's like being back in the womb for a while. I think that state of mind is as high as we can go but I'll be pleasantly surprised if there's anything more.
It's not even like being in deep sleep, that takes thinking. The hypnagogic state of consciousness is also really interesting and enjoyable. Thoughs rich with meaning flying into your head, vivid mental imagery - when you realise you're seeing it, it disappears and the afterimage is left on the inside of your eyelids, a new found source of happiness from within. It's a shame that state is so hard to sustain because noticing you're in it will throw you straight out. In that state it's like your "thought processor" is on overdrive.
At the same time I don't believe in your idea of collective consciousness acting as "God". Consistentency and reproducibility are crucial to finding out the truth. I've met people who have had spiritual experiences with "Jesus" and the "Trinity", others who have had all sorts of experiences with their "Gods". All conjured up by their subconscious. It's true that consciousness more or less acts as a base or foundation for all our thoughts and so on and that's where I see consistency but the fact that people experience what they want to experience stands in the way. Someone experiencing "Jesus" takes away all significance in my eyes even if it's the most powerful emotionally-involved experience of their lives.
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Peace be upon you OPF,
At the same time I don't believe in your idea of collective consciousness acting as "God". Consistentency and reproducibility are crucial to finding out the truth. I've met people who have had spiritual experiences with "Jesus" and the "Trinity", others who have had all sorts of experiences with their "Gods". All conjured up by their subconscious. It's true that consciousness more or less acts as a base or foundation for all our thoughts and so on and that's where I see consistency but the fact that people experience what they want to experience stands in the way. Someone experiencing "Jesus" takes away all significance in my eyes even if it's the most powerful emotionally-involved experience of their lives.
Conciousness, is THAT which percieves all things....meaning it is THAT which sees, hears, feels, etc through the vehicle of the physical body. WHo is the SEER, the Hearer, etc? None other that God. Conciousness is who and what we are, it is not a faculty we have , it is our identity, the very core of existence.
Thoughts of Jesus, Buddha, or whoever are THINGS, conciousness is NO-THING. Let me say again more directly, THOUGHTS are things, they are matter, conciousness is "anti-matter", it is the realm where there is no form, nor , space, nor time. SO when people talk of spiritual experiences with THINGS, that is not equal to the experience of total "no-thing-ness". God is THAT which manifests the THINGS.
I hope that resolves the disagreement you have with my position. If not I would like to discuss it more.
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peace
hmm, ok from reading quran (or other scriptures) i can see God being talked about as if He is seperate from us... not part of us... even though somehow it says He put in us of His energy, which is still somewhat unclear a bit, but ok.
rest of the scripture talks about how we should behave like, and it criticizes us humans a bit... so it may be hard (maybe just for me) to understand God being us or our identity because in that case i would see no point in sending revelations... because we should already know it -
salaam
perhaps this maybe of some assistance in your ponderment, or meditation;
surah 3
- Alif-lam-meem
- Allahu la ilaha illa huwa alhayyu alqayyoomu
the translation available at free-minds.org is
31 A.L.M.
32 God, there is no god but He, the Living, the Sustainer.but i sense the key phrase is 'alhayyu alqayyoom'.
what could you make if the two verses read like this?
- Feel!
- God is no god unless He is the 'Infinite Energy'?
the spirit of God is within.
perhaps the enlightened can feel it.but idiots like me are still grappling!
peace
mohammed noh
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Peace be upon you,
hmm, ok from reading quran (or other scriptures) i can see God being talked about as if He is seperate from us... not part of us... even though somehow it says He put in us of His energy, which is still somewhat unclear a bit, but ok.
rest of the scripture talks about how we should behave like, and it criticizes us humans a bit... so it may be hard (maybe just for me) to understand God being us or our identity because in that case i would see no point in sending revelations... because we should already know itGod is omnipresent, therefore you cannot look at anyperson and say, God is not right there, if you could, how could God be omnipresent. Things must be seperated and put in metaphors and stories so we can learn. One must break down the whole of the human body into respiratory system, circulatory system, etc so that we can understand how the WHOLE operates.
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peace
well sure i understand God being everywhere, omnipresent, what's curious to me is that in what connection is He with us.
like if we take that ocean analogy, ok lets make it cloud, and rain falls from it, and sure we see raindrops as seperate, there's millions individual rain drops yes just a few minutes ago they were 1 (forming a cloud).
so if we understand God as that cloud and us as raindrops... what does that mean? like, that we have a piece of God in us? like it says He breathed in us of His energy, what is that, like we are a... part God?
in that case, why is it wrong for humans to claim we're Gods, or God? (like pharaoh did)now ok that would kinda contradict 'none is like Him' in one of the last vesrses of quran (1124). plus it still doesn't answer 'how come we comit evil' or 'why send us revelations (if we are a piece of Him)'
ok i have to ask this how many parts are we made from?
is it soul+bad side, that suggests evil(shaytan...)+good side, that suggests good(God's breath/energy...)?
or is it soul(which IS God's energy)+bad side? -
Peace be upon you Nerspi,
well sure i understand God being everywhere, omnipresent, what's curious to me is that in what connection is He with us.
like if we take that ocean analogy, ok lets make it cloud, and rain falls from it, and sure we see raindrops as seperate, there's millions individual rain drops yes just a few minutes ago they were 1 (forming a cloud).
so if we understand God as that cloud and us as raindrops... what does that mean?It means you have to do what God said and "change your qiblah". You are looking outward, where things appear seperate. In your question you immediately seperated God and Man when you said "God as cloud, us as raindrops", but arent we both that watery substance that changes manifestations? If we look DEEPER into the matter (pun intended) we notice that both the rain, and the cloud are made from protons, nuetrons, and electrons, in fact, all material is comprised of these same ingredients.
like, that we have a piece of God in us? like it says He breathed in us of His energy, what is that, like we are a... part God?
in that case, why is it wrong for humans to claim we're Gods, or God? (like pharaoh did)God is the one conciousness that experiences through all of our vehicles. While God encompasses all of "us" , "we" cannot encompass God. The difference between the ocean and a rain drop is that a raindrop cannot nourish the millions of forms of fish in the world.
now ok that would kinda contradict 'none is like Him' in one of the last vesrses of quran (1124).
No raindrop is like the ocean of electrons, protons, and nuetrons, but all is made of that same substance.
plus it still doesn't answer 'how come we comit evil' or 'why send us revelations (if we are a piece of Him)'
Because mankind is created "weak", just like a baby that must be grown into adulthood, you must grow into your Godliness.
ok i have to ask this how many parts are we made from?
is it soul+bad side, that suggests evil(shaytan...)+good side, that suggests good(God's breath/energy...)?
or is it soul(which IS God's energy)+bad side?Many cultures break the cosmology of being into many different arrangements...two, three, four, seven, nine, eleven, etc. All are valid for what they are trying to explain. Sometimes in this reading(quran) we are told to focus on the ONE, others on the TWO such as when we are told all things are created in pairs.....or FOUR such as the example to Ibrahim on how God gives life to the earth thats dead, etc
The particular understanding I have found to be most helpful is man is made of 11 faculties. If you want to learn more about that you can get the book "Maat The 11 Laws of God" by Ra Un Nefer Amen. For now though I would meditate on the ONE understanding, it will help you with the above questions that I hope I answered satisfactorilly