Rememberance of God
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Peace be upon you,
no, God is "no-things", creation is "things"
God is that which organizes the protons, nuetrons, and eletrons into things.
Consciousness is not a faculty we have, it is WHO WE ARE. Consciousness is that which PERCIEVES creation, but Itself cannot be percieved.
God experiences the world through Its creation. Did not God say that man is created to SERVE God? Yes, we are the vehicles through which God experiences Its creation.
Your initial post resonated very well with me, but this latter stuff is very theosophical and pseudo-gnostic, which is very Un-Quranic. God is above all and created conciousness etc. Saying God experiences the world through us incorrect, we experience the world in order to understand God, who is far above this world....suggesting otherwise is blasphemous (for the lack of a better word).
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Peace be upon you Nerpsi,
Yes, that is the problem many face. There is a verse in the quran that states that most have the wrong understanding of God. We are taught as children that God is some object out in space and all kinds of foolish beliefs that we must unlearn.
Yes, you can have a conversation with God and God does talk back to you..but I dont want to get into that conversation just yet. That takes us into oracles/divination, etc such as what Zakariah used in quran and many used throughout the bible, etc.
That is an accurate analogy, the SEER SEES through your eyes and mine, it HEARS through your ears and mine.
Sit still in a chair with your hands face down on your lap. Your back is in an S shape so you can get the breath to your lower abdomen. Take slow breaths in and out evenly getting down to about 3 breaths per minute if you can, or as slow as you can get. When thoughts come to your mind dont hold on to them, just let them pass through and dont engage them.....and that will be a great lesson right there, you will see how YOU DO NOT CALL THOUGHTS they come by themselves....meaning that you have a thought processor in your spirit that just throws up thoughts. Like when you are walking down the street and start humming a song you dont like but have heard a million times. Anyway, after ignoring thoughts for a while, with practice you will come to a point when there are no thoughts and images coming through and you are only concious of being conciouness itself!!
Part of us like the SOURCE of us. Part us us like the SEED from wihich the entire tree grows. The tree is not seperate from the seed.
Here is a site online where you can read a book called "Kybalion". It will help you understand more whatr I am saying. It is a quick read, you can go right to chapters called "The ALL in ALL" or "The ALL" for starters.
http//www.kybalion.org/kybalion.asp?chapter=I
Kybalion is a new age/hermetic/theosophical/luciferian/magick Book. Many of it's teachings are anti-Quranic. It was only written in the early 1900's. I know a fair amount about this stuff and feel compelled to warn you that it is not a good place to draw ideas from. Some of what it says is true...because the best lies are those mixed with truth, so if you are going to read it, so so using the furqan (criteria) to separate it's truth from its fiction.
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Peace be upon you Follower,
Your initial post resonated very well with me, but this latter stuff is very theosophical and pseudo-gnostic, which is very Un-Quranic. God is above all and created conciousness etc.
What makes you say it is un - "quranic"? Any proclamation from the book(al kitaab) is "quranic", and I am not talking about the 114 chapter book that has been given that title. But that aside, please indicate exactly what statement is not in line with truth (quranic).
Saying God experiences the world through us incorrect, we experience the world in order to understand God, who is far above this world....suggesting otherwise is blasphemous (for the lack of a better word).
Direct experience is always the best proof, this is what Al Kitaab provides, in other words this is what life on earth provides. Al Kitaab is the life around and within us. But I am sure you are looking for references from within the 114 chapter guide, so I will present some references for you to ponder...
It was not you who killed them; GOD is the One who killed them. It was not you who threw when you threw; GOD is the One who threw. But He thus gives the believers a chance to earn a lot of credit. GOD is Hearer, Omniscient.
And countless times we read..
(603)...GOD is Seer of everything you do
The creation and resurrection of all of you is the same as that of one person. GOD is Hearer, Seer.
So I ask you is it YOU who sees and hears, or is GOD SEER and HEARER?
Did not this guide say that God is closer to "us" than the Jugular Vein?
When God says it is It who threw, not YOU, what does that say to you?
(5156) ...I have only created Jinns and men, that they may serve Me.
Serve HOW? The same way "our" bodies SERVE "us" , as vehicles to operate within for experience.
Why else pust we purify our minds and bodies? So God can have a sure place to operate from.
Yes, there is one conciousness that manifests through a multitude of vehicles...is there any of you that has had a direct experience greater than that? If so please provide it.
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peace
intersting.
but this 817 would seem as if they didn't have free will.
hmm, still thinking about what/how God is. if He is ONE conciousness seperated into pieces... maybe it would seem mysterious why He would tell us to now worship anything else other then Him seeing that... He, in a way, is us... or why would we do evil in the world? -
Sit still in a chair with your hands face down on your lap. Your back is in an S shape so you can get the breath to your lower abdomen. Take slow breaths in and out evenly getting down to about 3 breaths per minute if you can, or as slow as you can get. When thoughts come to your mind dont hold on to them, just let them pass through and dont engage them.....and that will be a great lesson right there, you will see how YOU DO NOT CALL THOUGHTS they come by themselves....meaning that you have a thought processor in your spirit that just throws up thoughts. Like when you are walking down the street and start humming a song you dont like but have heard a million times. Anyway, after ignoring thoughts for a while, with practice you will come to a point when there are no thoughts and images coming through and you are only concious of being conciouness itself!!
I used to be very skeptical of your posts and I still am but you've described the process of ego-loss which I've become familiar with just this year (not meditation induced ). You hit the peak when you're looking at your body and have no idea what it is or what to do with it. Even that state is lower than ego death where you literally feel, percieve, know, absolutely nothing. All your mental faculties are offline and all you can percieve is consciousness, without even the ability to identify whether it belongs to you or not. An enjoyable experience but it can drive you insane if you're not prepared for it. It's like being back in the womb for a while. I think that state of mind is as high as we can go but I'll be pleasantly surprised if there's anything more.
It's not even like being in deep sleep, that takes thinking. The hypnagogic state of consciousness is also really interesting and enjoyable. Thoughs rich with meaning flying into your head, vivid mental imagery - when you realise you're seeing it, it disappears and the afterimage is left on the inside of your eyelids, a new found source of happiness from within. It's a shame that state is so hard to sustain because noticing you're in it will throw you straight out. In that state it's like your "thought processor" is on overdrive.
At the same time I don't believe in your idea of collective consciousness acting as "God". Consistentency and reproducibility are crucial to finding out the truth. I've met people who have had spiritual experiences with "Jesus" and the "Trinity", others who have had all sorts of experiences with their "Gods". All conjured up by their subconscious. It's true that consciousness more or less acts as a base or foundation for all our thoughts and so on and that's where I see consistency but the fact that people experience what they want to experience stands in the way. Someone experiencing "Jesus" takes away all significance in my eyes even if it's the most powerful emotionally-involved experience of their lives.
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Peace be upon you OPF,
At the same time I don't believe in your idea of collective consciousness acting as "God". Consistentency and reproducibility are crucial to finding out the truth. I've met people who have had spiritual experiences with "Jesus" and the "Trinity", others who have had all sorts of experiences with their "Gods". All conjured up by their subconscious. It's true that consciousness more or less acts as a base or foundation for all our thoughts and so on and that's where I see consistency but the fact that people experience what they want to experience stands in the way. Someone experiencing "Jesus" takes away all significance in my eyes even if it's the most powerful emotionally-involved experience of their lives.
Conciousness, is THAT which percieves all things....meaning it is THAT which sees, hears, feels, etc through the vehicle of the physical body. WHo is the SEER, the Hearer, etc? None other that God. Conciousness is who and what we are, it is not a faculty we have , it is our identity, the very core of existence.
Thoughts of Jesus, Buddha, or whoever are THINGS, conciousness is NO-THING. Let me say again more directly, THOUGHTS are things, they are matter, conciousness is "anti-matter", it is the realm where there is no form, nor , space, nor time. SO when people talk of spiritual experiences with THINGS, that is not equal to the experience of total "no-thing-ness". God is THAT which manifests the THINGS.
I hope that resolves the disagreement you have with my position. If not I would like to discuss it more.
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peace
hmm, ok from reading quran (or other scriptures) i can see God being talked about as if He is seperate from us... not part of us... even though somehow it says He put in us of His energy, which is still somewhat unclear a bit, but ok.
rest of the scripture talks about how we should behave like, and it criticizes us humans a bit... so it may be hard (maybe just for me) to understand God being us or our identity because in that case i would see no point in sending revelations... because we should already know it -
salaam
perhaps this maybe of some assistance in your ponderment, or meditation;
surah 3
- Alif-lam-meem
- Allahu la ilaha illa huwa alhayyu alqayyoomu
the translation available at free-minds.org is
31 A.L.M.
32 God, there is no god but He, the Living, the Sustainer.but i sense the key phrase is 'alhayyu alqayyoom'.
what could you make if the two verses read like this?
- Feel!
- God is no god unless He is the 'Infinite Energy'?
the spirit of God is within.
perhaps the enlightened can feel it.but idiots like me are still grappling!
peace
mohammed noh
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Peace be upon you,
hmm, ok from reading quran (or other scriptures) i can see God being talked about as if He is seperate from us... not part of us... even though somehow it says He put in us of His energy, which is still somewhat unclear a bit, but ok.
rest of the scripture talks about how we should behave like, and it criticizes us humans a bit... so it may be hard (maybe just for me) to understand God being us or our identity because in that case i would see no point in sending revelations... because we should already know itGod is omnipresent, therefore you cannot look at anyperson and say, God is not right there, if you could, how could God be omnipresent. Things must be seperated and put in metaphors and stories so we can learn. One must break down the whole of the human body into respiratory system, circulatory system, etc so that we can understand how the WHOLE operates.
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peace
well sure i understand God being everywhere, omnipresent, what's curious to me is that in what connection is He with us.
like if we take that ocean analogy, ok lets make it cloud, and rain falls from it, and sure we see raindrops as seperate, there's millions individual rain drops yes just a few minutes ago they were 1 (forming a cloud).
so if we understand God as that cloud and us as raindrops... what does that mean? like, that we have a piece of God in us? like it says He breathed in us of His energy, what is that, like we are a... part God?
in that case, why is it wrong for humans to claim we're Gods, or God? (like pharaoh did)now ok that would kinda contradict 'none is like Him' in one of the last vesrses of quran (1124). plus it still doesn't answer 'how come we comit evil' or 'why send us revelations (if we are a piece of Him)'
ok i have to ask this how many parts are we made from?
is it soul+bad side, that suggests evil(shaytan...)+good side, that suggests good(God's breath/energy...)?
or is it soul(which IS God's energy)+bad side? -
Peace be upon you Nerspi,
well sure i understand God being everywhere, omnipresent, what's curious to me is that in what connection is He with us.
like if we take that ocean analogy, ok lets make it cloud, and rain falls from it, and sure we see raindrops as seperate, there's millions individual rain drops yes just a few minutes ago they were 1 (forming a cloud).
so if we understand God as that cloud and us as raindrops... what does that mean?It means you have to do what God said and "change your qiblah". You are looking outward, where things appear seperate. In your question you immediately seperated God and Man when you said "God as cloud, us as raindrops", but arent we both that watery substance that changes manifestations? If we look DEEPER into the matter (pun intended) we notice that both the rain, and the cloud are made from protons, nuetrons, and electrons, in fact, all material is comprised of these same ingredients.
like, that we have a piece of God in us? like it says He breathed in us of His energy, what is that, like we are a... part God?
in that case, why is it wrong for humans to claim we're Gods, or God? (like pharaoh did)God is the one conciousness that experiences through all of our vehicles. While God encompasses all of "us" , "we" cannot encompass God. The difference between the ocean and a rain drop is that a raindrop cannot nourish the millions of forms of fish in the world.
now ok that would kinda contradict 'none is like Him' in one of the last vesrses of quran (1124).
No raindrop is like the ocean of electrons, protons, and nuetrons, but all is made of that same substance.
plus it still doesn't answer 'how come we comit evil' or 'why send us revelations (if we are a piece of Him)'
Because mankind is created "weak", just like a baby that must be grown into adulthood, you must grow into your Godliness.
ok i have to ask this how many parts are we made from?
is it soul+bad side, that suggests evil(shaytan...)+good side, that suggests good(God's breath/energy...)?
or is it soul(which IS God's energy)+bad side?Many cultures break the cosmology of being into many different arrangements...two, three, four, seven, nine, eleven, etc. All are valid for what they are trying to explain. Sometimes in this reading(quran) we are told to focus on the ONE, others on the TWO such as when we are told all things are created in pairs.....or FOUR such as the example to Ibrahim on how God gives life to the earth thats dead, etc
The particular understanding I have found to be most helpful is man is made of 11 faculties. If you want to learn more about that you can get the book "Maat The 11 Laws of God" by Ra Un Nefer Amen. For now though I would meditate on the ONE understanding, it will help you with the above questions that I hope I answered satisfactorilly
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peace God Within
yeah i'm understanding it better now.
but you'd agree that not all of God is seperated, right? there's still more of... "the cloud".i've also heard some say like, God is love, or, God is life... but, how do you talk to love or life? does it answer back? i kinda don't get that part for now.
i'm more curious now about talking to Him.
if you don't mind me asking, do you do astral projection?
or have you had such experience, or maybe a near-death experience?in a way, i think God can be reached better there, in that spirit world. now i know He's already here, all the time, close to us, but somehow i still think we may be too distracted by this world to actually hear Him. it does say in the quran about 3 ways we He talks to us (sending a messenger, inspiration or behind a barrier), so i'd assume going behind this barrier is like having an obe, which also may be one of the possibilities how messengers got the revelations.
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You are made in the "image" of God and told that you have command over the submitting malaika -controlling forces of this ONE ENERGY of Creation. Get to teaching them
May Peace, salaam, shalom, nirvana, wu ji, etc be upon you.
You were fine in the letter until you got to this point what do you mean "image" of God
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Peace be upon you,
peace God Within
yeah i'm understanding it better now.
but you'd agree that not all of God is seperated, right? there's still more of... "the cloud".Yes, Being is a duality, just like you and I, there is a part of us that percieves but itself cannot be percieved. The part of you that sees through the eyes, hears through the ears, etc cannot ITSELF be seen or heard. We are created in the image of God. The part that cannt be percieved is that rest of "the cloud"
i've also heard some say like, God is love, or, God is life... but, how do you talk to love or life? does it answer back? i kinda don't get that part for now.
I dont agree with those associations so I cannot comment.
i'm more curious now about talking to Him.
if you don't mind me asking, do you do astral projection?
or have you had such experience, or maybe a near-death experience?I cannot say I have astral projected at this point but I have made some major changes in my life very recently that I think will help my spirituality greatly, finaly trancended some bad habits, so hopefully I will be able to try to VERIFY such experiences.
in a way, i think God can be reached better there, in that spirit world. now i know He's already here, all the time, close to us, but somehow i still think we may be too distracted by this world to actually hear Him. it does say in the quran about 3 ways we He talks to us (sending a messenger, inspiration or behind a barrier), so i'd assume going behind this barrier is like having an obe, which also may be one of the possibilities how messengers got the revelations.
Ohhhh, yes, absolutely. Going into the Trance state is where we need to go, in fact we go into trance states all the time unknowingly (and can be scientifically proven by testing brain wave patterns. Meditation is one of the best means of getting into that state. I cannot speak too much about that at this time either. I go into trance often but I have not had the experiences that I have WITNESSED others have just yet, I am working hard at it now though so hopefully soon. God also speaks through symbols in your dreams, which along with trance is probably that barrier. Still much more to be learned/intuited.
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Peace be upon you Real Truth,
You were fine in the letter until you got to this point what do you mean "image" of God
I mean that we have the same qualities as God, just not the same Quantity. That is what we are here to grow and develop, our God like qualities. I do not mean that God is a white man with a beard, two arms and legs and we all "look" like him, no, by "image" I mean qualities. Just like this reading(quran) states that we were created on God's pattern. )