Do you believe hijab is mandatory?
-
luthador_sucks,
Let's look at what the Quran says regarding what a woman should wear
726 O Children of Adam, We have sent down for you garments to cover your bodies, as well as ornaments; and the garment of awareness is the best. That is from God's signs, perhaps they will remember.
731 O Children of Adam, dress nicely at every temple, and eat and drink and do not indulge or waste; He does not like the indulgers and the prodigals.
3359 O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the wives of those who acknowledge that they should lengthen upon themselves their outer garments. That is better so that they would be recognized and not harmed. God is Forgiver, Compassionate.
The above verse applies to Muslim women living in a land where the men harass women. God tells us that It will not abide such men living in the same land as believers, and so unless such men stop harassing women, they may be evicted from the land, or even killed if they go so far as to rape a woman (3360-61). I don't think 3559 applies to women where rape is rare.
2431 Tell the acknowledging women to lower their gaze and guard their private parts, and that they should not show off their attraction except what is apparent, and let them cast their clothes over their cleavage. Let them not show off their attraction except to their husbands, or their fathers, or fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or the sons of their brothers, or the sons of their sisters, or their children that come after them, or those who are still their dependants, or the male servants who are without need, or the child who has not yet understood the nakedness of women. Let them not strike with their feet in a manner that reveals what they are keeping hidden of their attraction. Repent to God, all of you acknowledgers, so that you may succeed.
So you see, none of these verses tell women to wear the hijab. Women may wear the hijab if they want to, but they shouldn't think of wearing one as a commandment from God.
-
luthador_sucks,
Let's look at what the Quran says regarding what a woman should wear
726 O Children of Adam, We have sent down for you garments to cover your bodies, as well as ornaments; and the garment of awareness is the best. That is from God's signs, perhaps they will remember.
731 O Children of Adam, dress nicely at every temple, and eat and drink and do not indulge or waste; He does not like the indulgers and the prodigals.
3359 O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the wives of those who acknowledge that they should lengthen upon themselves their outer garments. That is better so that they would be recognized and not harmed. God is Forgiver, Compassionate.
The above verse applies to Muslim women living in a land where the men harass women. God tells us that It will not abide such men living in the same land as believers, and so unless such men stop harassing women, they may be evicted from the land, or even killed if they go so far as to rape a woman (3360-61). I don't think 3559 applies to women where rape is rare.
2431 Tell the acknowledging women to lower their gaze and guard their private parts, and that they should not show off their attraction except what is apparent, and let them cast their clothes over their cleavage. Let them not show off their attraction except to their husbands, or their fathers, or fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or the sons of their brothers, or the sons of their sisters, or their children that come after them, or those who are still their dependants, or the male servants who are without need, or the child who has not yet understood the nakedness of women. Let them not strike with their feet in a manner that reveals what they are keeping hidden of their attraction. Repent to God, all of you acknowledgers, so that you may succeed.
So you see, none of these verses tell women to wear the hijab. Women may wear the hijab if they want to, but they shouldn't think of wearing one as a commandment from God.
What a great view you have, well then why do people, like al afran/araf support it?
-
Thank you
I suppose you shoul ask Al Araf.
nah i dun wana get in arguement, i'd rather stick to free minded ways
-
Intelligent answer luthador.
Peace
Well, thanks, sun
All praises are for Allah/God -
ls,
Do not mistake being "free minded" with being "right". The two do not always go together.
"hijab" does not even mean "headscarf" in The Quran. In fact, it doesn't even mean an item of clothing. You can read every verse using this word here 746, 1745, 1917, 3353, 3832, 415, 4251
The above is just clarifying the word usage. To rule out "headcover" you'd have to do further research.
-
ls,
Do not mistake being "free minded" with being "right". The two do not always go together.
"hijab" does not even mean "headscarf" in The Quran. In fact, it doesn't even mean an item of clothing. You can read every verse using this word here 746, 1745, 1917, 3353, 3832, 415, 4251
The above is just clarifying the word usage. To rule out "headcover" you'd have to do further research.
well these disputes wiil just keep on going on for ever. Endless only Allah knows best (
-
Do not mistake being "free minded" with being "right". The two do not always go together.
This is correct. When I made the comment of luthador giving an intelligent answer, my meaning was that we should all have a "free" mind and not be enslaved by generations before us... just because they followed a certain way. We must verify and not follow blindly.
Peace
-
This is correct. When I made the comment of luthador giving an intelligent answer, my meaning was that we should all have a "free" mind and not be enslaved by generations before us... just because they followed a certain way. We must verify and not follow blindly.
Peace
so what excatly is wrong with me? I am trying to be righteous, free minded and not extracavenge.
-
so what excatly is wrong with me? I am trying to be righteous, free minded and not extracavenge.
I never said anything was wrong with you. I was simply agreeing with you. Sorry for the confusion.
Btw, I voted the hijab is optional, assuming you mean the traditional headscarf. Not just optional, but IMO, it has nothing to do with Islam.
Peace
-
I never said anything was wrong with you. I was simply agreeing with you. Sorry for the confusion.
Peace
no problem but wakas wasnt
-
luthador_sucks,
Let's look at what the Quran says regarding what a woman should wear
726 O Children of Adam, We have sent down for you garments to cover your bodies, as well as ornaments; and the garment of awareness is the best. That is from God's signs, perhaps they will remember.
731 O Children of Adam, dress nicely at every temple, and eat and drink and do not indulge or waste; He does not like the indulgers and the prodigals.
3359 O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the wives of those who acknowledge that they should lengthen upon themselves their outer garments. That is better so that they would be recognized and not harmed. God is Forgiver, Compassionate.
The above verse applies to Muslim women living in a land where the men harass women. God tells us that It will not abide such men living in the same land as believers, and so unless such men stop harassing women, they may be evicted from the land, or even killed if they go so far as to rape a woman (3360-61). I don't think 3559 applies to women where rape is rare.
2431 Tell the acknowledging women to lower their gaze and guard their private parts, and that they should not show off their attraction except what is apparent, and let them cast their clothes over their cleavage. Let them not show off their attraction except to their husbands, or their fathers, or fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or the sons of their brothers, or the sons of their sisters, or their children that come after them, or those who are still their dependants, or the male servants who are without need, or the child who has not yet understood the nakedness of women. Let them not strike with their feet in a manner that reveals what they are keeping hidden of their attraction. Repent to God, all of you acknowledgers, so that you may succeed.
So you see, none of these verses tell women to wear the hijab. Women may wear the hijab if they want to, but they shouldn't think of wearing one as a commandment from God.
Outstanding.
Excellent.
Awesome.
Exactly what i would say. -
Supernaut's the man.
I want to point out that in traditional Islam, rape would, apparently, partially (or completely depending on how stupid you are) be the woman's fault simply if she didn't wear the hijab. Such is the misleading by Satan and such will be in the fire. "Nuff said.
Anyway, I originally came here to point out the stupid logic of the hijab in the first place. Sunni islam claims that the hijab is a must when the female has attained puberty. Anyone notice a fallacy here? What difference does it make when the female reaches puberty? The hair was there the whole time, and the boys/men have been looking at the hair for many years of that girl's life. It's not like reaching puberty makes the hair talk to men enticing them to screw the female the hair is on. Seriously.
Someone please answer the following question. When the Quran says lower the gaze...well...I'm pretty sure it means not to look at them (the women), not meaning abstain from looking at that which the woman is commanded to cover (i.e. breasts, private part and unnecessary body parts). So, I guess I'm not allowed to stare at a girl's face...-[ (.
The second to last thing I'm going to show here are two people's interpretation of what's "necessary" in the verse regarding the dress code for women. One is Submission.org's and the other is Islam Q&A's (honestly, I think these sites are two different religions. One is the most hardcore Quran-only site I've seen (that being a good thing, of course) and the other is the most hardcore Sunni Islam site on the net (guided partly or mostly by Satan).
The verse is 2431, telling the women to lower their gaze and guard their private parts, to cover their breasts and show only that which is necessary.
Sub's interpretation of necessary That which you wash/wipe during ablution (anyone agree with this one, because this one makes PERFECT sense to me.)
QA's Everything but the eyes, so the woman can see. Okay, so it's not ok for her to smell (with the nose) or hear well (with the ears) or touch things (with her hands). Thanks, @*$*ol3, but I'll use the brain I was gifted with.
Which interpretation would you take?
The very last thing I want to ask is the part mentioning what a woman can show to her husband, her father, the father of her husband etc.
...what are the conditions of this? I mean, I think she can be naked in front of her husband, but what about her father/husband's father/etc.? Can she be naked in front of them too?
Edit The way the second poll option was written made me laugh. p
-
Peace Meteora,
What really ticks me off is when people GROSSLY mistranslate the god's words and then base their entire reasoning and understanding on the GROSS mistranslation, thereby misguiding themselves and others.
The second to last thing I'm going to show here are two people's interpretation of what's "necessary" in the verse regarding the dress code for women. One is Submission.org's and the other is Islam Q&A's (honestly, I think these sites are two different religions. One is the most hardcore Quran-only site I've seen (that being a good thing, of course) and the other is the most hardcore Sunni Islam site on the net (guided partly or mostly by Satan).
The verse is 2431, telling the women to lower their gaze and guard their private parts, to cover their breasts and show only that which is necessary.
Sub's interpretation of necessary That which you wash/wipe during ablution (anyone agree with this one, because this one makes PERFECT sense to me.)
QA's Everything but the eyes, so the woman can see. Okay, so it's not ok for her to smell (with the nose) or hear well (with the ears) or touch things (with her hands). Thanks, @*$*ol3, but I'll use the brain I was gifted with.
Which interpretation would you take?
WHERE DOES IT SAY "NECESSARY"?
Courtesy of submission.org, another person misguided.
The Arabic words are "ma zahara minha" which mean "what is APPARENT".
THIS COMPLETELY CHANGES THE UNDERSTANDING.
What is apparent in a woman's body that comes under "zeenat"/beauty and cannot be hidden because it is apparent?
IN MY UNDERSTANDING, that could be the outline/silhouette of large breasts, and no matter how she tries to cover them with "khimaar" the outline/silhouette is still apparent. It could also include the outline/silhouette of large hips/buttock, which is still apparent no matter how she tries to cover them with a "jilbaab"/loose dress, etc. etc. It could also include adornments/jewelry which are worn on hands, face, feet etc.
There is no commandment to cover the face, head, hands and feet so those parts can thus be exposed not because they fall under "ma zahara minha" but because there is no commandment to cover them.
The very last thing I want to ask is the part mentioning what a woman can show to her husband, her father, the father of her husband etc.
...what are the conditions of this? I mean, I think she can be naked in front of her husband, but what about her father/husband's father/etc.? Can she be naked in front of them too?
The "furooj"/private parts do not come under "zeenat" and are to be covered in front of everyone except the husband.
The "zeenat" that falls under "ma zahara minha" can be revealed to anyone.
All other "zeenat" that does not fall under "ma zahara minha" can be revealed to the mentioned categories. What is this "zeenat other than ma zahara minha"?
I think this will include arms, legs, belly etc. I think it will also include her breasts. It cannot be private parts because they are to be covered in front of everyone except the husband as per 235-6.
Another point is that just because a woman is allowed to reveal those parts to the mentioned categories does not mean she has to reveal them to the mentioned categories, but it is left up to her. For example, if she has a baby which is of breast feeding age, and it is time to breast feed her baby, she can do that in front of the above mentioned categories IF SHE WANTS TO. It is her choice.
-
The Arabic words are "ma zahara minha" which mean "what is APPARENT".
Agree with this, it makes sense.
