Hot/"ramadan" Answer

Tlepsh

Peace

The following translations are taken from Progressive Muslims. Can you please compare these verses and comment? Is studying quran what is meant by Siyam?

73.20 Your Lord knows that you rise a little less than two thirds of the night, and half of it, and one third of it, as well as a group of those who are with you. And God measures the night and the day. He knows that you will not be able to keep-up, so He pardons you. So study what is made easy of the Quran. He knows that there will be sick among you, and others that venture out in the land seeking from God?s bounty, and others who are fighting in the cause of God, so study what you can of it. And hold the contact-method and contribute towards betterment and give God a loan of righteousness. And whatever you put forth yourselves, you will find it with God, for it is better and a greater reward. And seek God?s forgiveness, for God is Forgiving, Merciful.

2.187 It has been made lawful for you during the night of fasting to approach your women sexually. They are a garment for you and you are a garment for them. God knows that you used to betray your souls so He has accepted your repentance, and forgiven you; now you may approach them and seek what God has written for you. And you may eat and drink until the white thread is distinct from the black thread of dawn; then you shall complete the fast until night; and do not approach them while you are devoted in the temples. These are God?s boundaries, so do not transgress them. It is thus that God makes His revelations clear to the people that they may be righteous.

2.184 A few number of days. Whoever of you is ill or traveling, then the same number from different days; and as for those who can do so but with difficulty, they may redeem by feeding the needy. And whoever does good voluntarily, then it is better for him. And if you fast it is better for you if you knew.

farida

Salaam Ayman

You're right in the underlined part, my mistake. But still I have another understanding. Maybe it is those women who make believe they are still menustrating, but because, say, of their age, you are in doubt; or they bleed for another reason. Since we have two ways in the verse to count the 3idda, we have to exclude these women from the possibility of being pregnant.

Why would she wait until delivery? How long before she finds she was not pregnant?

As I understand, there are two groups Those who can't be pregnant (menopausal and those who believe they are not but we doubt that) and those who are pregnant (those who have their menustrations stop during pregnancy and those who continue their menustartion during pregnancy).

fftopic
hmm

Salaam farida

I am not the one wondering what colour the moon is or what size it should be or when in order to fast. I just took the other option and decided to feed the poor. Look into the mirror.

peace

ayman

Peace Truthseeker, Samia,

I think the two groups are

Waallaee ya-isna mina almaheedi min nisa-ikum ini irtabtum (those women who have despaired/given up from the menstruation, if you are doubtful). This would include all the women who have stopped menstruating because of menopause or other reasons excluding pregnancy but "you" are doubtful as to whether "they" have actually stopped menstruating due to those reasons.
Waallaee lam yahidna wa olatual ahmali (those who haven't menstruated and are pregnant). This would include all those women who were menstruating regularly but haven't menstruated since divorce due to pregnancy.
Please not that "waallaee" separates the two groups and there is no "waallaee" between "lam yahidna" and "olatual ahmali".

I agree with group 1.

On group 2, the terms "allaee" and "olatu" serve approximately the same function, the first is "those who" stopped menstruating since the divorce and the second is "those with" a load (carrying a baby). You can reverse the order and say "olatu alahmali wa allaee lam yahidna" and the meaning is the same. So those are two separate categories within group 2. Now for the category of those who are pregnant there is no issue since at the time of the divorce it is known that they are pregnant. So if they are divorced 5 minutes before they give birth, their waiting time is 5 minutes.

There is also very low risk with group 1 since they had already despaired from menstruation prior to the divorce so their waiting period is ZERO or 3 full-moons if you (not they) are in doubt. The highest risk is the other category of group 2. They are the ones who stopped menstruating since the divorce. For those, there are two possibilities

They are pregnant.
They are not pregnant.

If they are pregnant then they automatically fall into the category of "pregnant" above.

If they are not pregnant then two things will happen

They may suddenly start menstruating again at anytime. In this case, since they haven't despaired of menstruation, they would fall back into the category of menstruating women who wait for 3 menstruations.
They may not menstruate for the 9-10 months maximum gestation period. In this case, after a while they will know for sure that they are not pregnant and hence move into the category of "despaired from menstruation".

Peace,

Ayman

belH

Peace All

Here is another Sign from your Lord

(&#1634

Allah is He Who raised the heavens without any pillars that ye can see; then He established Himself on the Throne; He has subjected the sun and the moon! Each one runs for an appointed period. He doth regulate all affairs explaining the Signs in detail, that ye may believe with certainty in the meeting with your Lord. (13-2)

The Sun and The Moon Run for an Appointed and Known Period.

The Known period of the Sun is from Sun Rise to the next Sun Rise?One day. For thousands of year since God Created the Sun, the Sun appears the same way every day. If the Sun has another Appointed Period beside Day and Night calculation, God would have appointed it in Quran or Bible or Torah (by saying that the Month has 30 days or year has 365 days)

The Known and appointed Period of the Moon is the Moon Stages (10-5, 36-39). Thus, from the beginning of the Moon Cycle to the End is the Appointed Period. Such Period is known in the Quran, the Bible, and Torah. And we calculate from the Waxing Crescent (the New Moon) to the Next Waxing Crescent (The Mark of the new next period).

Unless Ayman and his Sect provide a period that is Appointed by God in His Books, They are Misleading you.

DO NOT FOLLOW ANY ONE EXECPT ALLAH?S WORDS

Salam and may God Lead you to the Truth

afridi220

By the way Truthseeker1, I'm still waiting for you to post the weather trend in "Madena" as you did for Mecca. ;D

Salaaaaam

salam bilal

Why are you so lost; it was not Mecca, but Madena; The Madena Weather is simmilar to Jordan.
Now go and find the same information for Madena and post it if you are looking after showing the truth

It was me I posted that calendar and choose not to respond the reason....

Quran was revealed in Mecca and not in Madina. hail

peace

ayman

Peace Afridi,

Quran was revealed in Mecca and not in Madina. hail

No it wasn't

http//www.free-minds.org/articles/history/ayman1.htm

Peace,

Ayman

truthseeker11

Peace everyone,

I was thinking hard about the "shahr" issue and asking God for guidance when suddenly He drew my attention to two key signs that establish once in for all that "shahr" can only mean "full-moon" in al-quran. I don't think anyone has considered this aspect before so I want to share this with all of you.

I am really excited about this ! yay

1712 And We made the night and the day as two signs, so We erased the sign of night and We made the sign of day to see-in, that you may seek bounty from your Lord, and that you may know the number of the years and the count. And everything We have detailed completely.

This sign makes it crystal clear that a year is solar according to al-quran.

Now let's see the following sign

936 The count of the "shahr" with God is twelve "shahr" in God?s record the day He created the heavens and the Earth; four of them are restricted. This is the correct system; so do not wrong yourselves in them; and fight those who set up partners collectively as they fight you collectively. And know that God is with the righteous.

This sign makes it clear that the count of "shahr" is twelve.

Now, if "shahr" means month, and as per al-quran phases of moon can be used as timing mechanism (105, 2189), then let's see how many lunar months can be counted in a solar year (assuming a lunar month is from waxing crescent to waxing crescent, or full-moon to full-moon, both will theoretically make no difference as to the count of lunar months). A solar year can be from summer solstice to summer solstice or winter solstice to winter solstice or the current solar calendar can be used. Again this will make no difference as far as the count of "shahr" is concerned.

2006 lunar months

Jan 29 - Feb 27
Feb 28 - Mar 28
Mar 29 - April 26
April 27 - May 26
May 27 - Jun 24
Jun 25 - Jul 24
Jul 25 - Aug 22
Aug 23 - Sep 21
Sep 22 - Oct 21
Oct 22 - Nov 19
Nov 20 - Dec 19

As we can clearly see, the COUNT of the lunar months in 2006 was 11, NOT 12 as per al-quran.

2007 lunar months

Jan 19 - Feb 16
Feb 17 - Mar 18
Mar 19 - Apr 17
Apr 17 - May 15
May 16 - Jun 14
Jun 15 - Jul 13
Jul 14 - Aug 11
Aug 12 - Sep 10
Sep 11 - Oct 10
Oct 11 - Nov 8
Nov 9 - Dec 8

As we can clearly see again, the COUNT of the lunar months in 2007 was 11, NOT 12 as per al-quran.

In fact, the count of lunar months in a solar year will be 11 for 2 years in a row and then 12 in the third year. But according to al-quran the count of "shahr" is always 12.

Therefore "shahr" CANNOT MEAN LUNAR MONTH in al-quran.

On the other hand, if we count the full-moons in a solar year, WE WILL ALWAYS BE ABLE TO COUNT 12 FULL-MOONS EVERY YEAR and every 3rd year the 13th full-moon will not be counted.

This proves beyond any shadow of doubt that "shahr" CAN ONLY MEAN FULL-MOON in al-quran.

Indeed, God has detailed everything completely relevant to our guidance as per 1712. The answer was always staring in the face; it is us who don't understand sometimes! May God guide us all to the truth.

afridi220

Peace everyone,

I was thinking hard about the "shahr" issue and asking God for guidance when suddenly He drew my attention to two key signs that establish once in for all that "shahr" can only mean "full-moon" in al-quran. I don't think anyone has considered this aspect before so I want to share this with all of you.

I am really excited about this ! yay

1712 And We made the night and the day as two signs, so We erased the sign of night and We made the sign of day to see-in, that you may seek bounty from your Lord, and that you may know the number of the years and the count. And everything We have detailed completely.

This sign makes it crystal clear that a year is solar according to al-quran.

Now let's see the following sign

936 The count of the "shahr" with God is twelve "shahr" in God?s record the day He created the heavens and the Earth; four of them are restricted. This is the correct system; so do not wrong yourselves in them; and fight those who set up partners collectively as they fight you collectively. And know that God is with the righteous.

This sign makes it clear that the count of "shahr" is twelve.

Now, if "shahr" means month, and as per al-quran phases of moon can be used as timing mechanism (105, 2189), then let's see how many lunar months can be counted in a solar year (assuming a lunar month is from waxing crescent to waxing crescent, or full-moon to full-moon, both will theoretically make no difference as to the count of lunar months). A solar year can be from summer solstice to summer solstice or winter solstice to winter solstice or the current solar calendar can be used. Again this will make no difference as far as the count of "shahr" is concerned.

2006 lunar months

Jan 29 - Feb 27
Feb 28 - Mar 28
Mar 29 - April 26
April 27 - May 26
May 27 - Jun 24
Jun 25 - Jul 24
Jul 25 - Aug 22
Aug 23 - Sep 21
Sep 22 - Oct 21
Oct 22 - Nov 19
Nov 20 - Dec 19

As we can clearly see, the COUNT of the lunar months in 2006 was 11, NOT 12 as per al-quran.

2007 lunar months

Jan 19 - Feb 16
Feb 17 - Mar 18
Mar 19 - Apr 17
Apr 17 - May 15
May 16 - Jun 14
Jun 15 - Jul 13
Jul 14 - Aug 11
Aug 12 - Sep 10
Sep 11 - Oct 10
Oct 11 - Nov 8
Nov 9 - Dec 8

As we can clearly see again, the COUNT of the lunar months in 2007 was 11, NOT 12 as per al-quran.

In fact, the count of lunar months in a solar year will be 11 for 2 years in a row and then 12 in the third year. But according to al-quran the count of "shahr" is always 12.

Therefore "shahr" CANNOT MEAN LUNAR MONTH in al-quran.

On the other hand, if we count the full-moons in a solar year, WE WILL ALWAYS BE ABLE TO COUNT 12 FULL-MOONS EVERY YEAR and every 3rd year the 13th full-moon will not be counted.

This proves beyond any shadow of doubt that "shahr" CAN ONLY MEAN FULL-MOON in al-quran.

Indeed, God has detailed everything completely relevant to our guidance as per 1712. The answer was always staring in the face; it is us who don't understand sometimes! May God guide us all to the truth.

Lets wait and see what Bilal and his folower Farida says about that, till that keep smilling )

afridi220

Peace Afridi,

No it wasn't

http//www.free-minds.org/articles/history/ayman1.htm

Peace,

Ayman

Salam ayman
The so called archaeological evidences about Islam and Quran are all written by Christians and not trust worthy.
For example see this link

http//isaalmasih.net/archaeology-isa/quran-archaeology.html &

peace

siki

The Sun and The Moon Run for an Appointed and Known Period.

The Known period of the Sun is from Sun Rise to the next Sun RiseOne day. For thousands of year since God Created the Sun, the Sun appears the same way every day. If the Sun has another Appointed Period beside Day and Night calculation, God would have appointed it in Quran or Bible or Torah (by saying that the Month has 30 days or year has 365 days)

The Known and appointed Period of the Moon is the Moon Stages (10-5, 36-39). Thus, from the beginning of the Moon Cycle to the End is the Appointed Period. Such Period is known in the Quran, the Bible, and Torah. And we calculate from the Waxing Crescent (the New Moon) to the Next Waxing Crescent (The Mark of the new next period).

Salam and may God Lead you to the Truth

Brother Belal, Salam. handshake

! lets assume for a while that >D "Aliens abduct you, and take you to planet X ;D . There you lose all track of earth time. One day they decide to dump you back. You splash down, manage to swim out to a small deserted island with no one around.

You wanted to keep track of time , and most probably this is how you ended up doing.

You remembered God's words in his book for keeping time, and hence started to count days with the help of sun rise and set. You counted 30 days but then your month started from the day you arrived back on the planet. The only way to synchronise it with the rest of the mankind was, to take refernce of the moon. So you reset your count and started counting months with the help of moon. To begin with, for a strange reason you chose the waxing cresent which followed the sun and was barely visible in the refracting light of the setting sun (By the way the wanning cresent is much more distinct, because it is at dawn, and is opposite to the rising sun) You counted "12" as per God's commandment, for a year and then restarted , but then your year was not synchronised with the rest of the world. This method started your year when you arrived back on the planet.

Over a period of a few years you noticed, that in your count of 12, once there was a full Moon, which was so distinct in colour that you couldn't miss it, and hence you reset your year count with the help of this Orange full moon.

As you started to count the year from this bright marker , your month count automatically began to start with Full Moon, and so was every month from then on. Over a period of time it dawned on you that it was easy to keep track of this bright full moon, and what a fool you were when you kept the count with waxing cresent.

(because in certain months you missed it and ended up having a count of 29 or sometimes 30-31 days, and every other month you had overcast and hence had no idea weather to start recounting or not whereas the bright full moon could still be noticed even in cloudy days when it started to rise soon afer sun set)

I sincerly hope that you realize the difference.

peace

siki

Umm_Tariq

Peace everyone,

I am also convinced, based on the god's verses, that prophet Muhammad was not from some place called Mecca, nor was the first bayt built there since the god says

396 Verily the first bayt put/placed for the people is verily the one at Bakka, blessed and a guidance for all the worlds.

I remember early on being sunni and I was amazed at this verse and asked about it and the only answer I got was, 'oh, that was the old name for Makkah.' No evidence for such a claim was ever presented. I remember reading the name Bakka in the Bible as well and I was amazed that it mentioned the same place but back then, didn't think too much more of it.

However, I mainly wanted to share another point about this, some food for thought for all if anyone has noticed this or not, these two verses

1173 They said are you amazed from the command of the god? The mercy of the god and His blessings upon you all family/ people/ citizens (etc.) of the bayt (ahlul bayt)...

3333 ...the god only wants to remove from you all the rijs family/ people/ citizens of the bayt (ahlul bayt) and purifying you all completely.

When I realized the arabic for the first time I was shocked, this same phrase addressing Ibrahim and his family and addressing prophet Muhammad and those with him. The beginning of verse 3333 starts out addressing just the wives of the prophet Muhammad and this was the first time I noticed the change in the pronouns used at the end of the verse, going from 'kunna' referring to you (plural) female to 'kum' you all including male and female. I then noticed how my copy of translation of the meaning of the reading from Saheeh International, sunni, translates these two verses

1173 "They said, "Are you amazed at the decree of Allah? May the mercy of Allah and His blessings be upon you, people of the house..."

3333 "And abide in your houses and do not display yourselves as the display of the former times of ignorance. And establish prayer and give zakah and obey Allah and His messenger. Allah intends only to remove from you the impurity , O people of the household, and to purify you with purification."

What happened???! This simple phrase 'ahlul bayt' is the same in both verses yet here, all of these additions, one must ask why? They don't even let you know that the 'O' is an addition nor can you tell the gender of all of the 'yous' used in English. In this verse they use 'household' (more personal). I automatically asked, what are you trying to hide by this? I realized, with these two verses, with this phrase, is this showing that Ibrahim, as well as Muhammad were in the same vicinity, near the same house, not in Mecca?

Again, food for thought, let me know how others have seen this verse translated. For me, additions like these, let's me know automatically that something is amiss and it's not the god's perfect verses.

Umm Tariq

ayman

Peace Afridi,

The so called archaeological evidences about Islam and Quran are all written by Christians and not trust worthy.

I don't think that non trust worthy Christian archeologists built the present pagan theme park in Mecca and told sectarians to idolize a stone cube, the Black Stone, "holy" Zamzam water, etc... .

Peace,

Ayman

belH

1712 And We made the night and the day as two signs, so We erased the sign of night and We made the sign of day to see-in, that you may seek bounty from your Lord, and that you may know the number of the years and the count. And everything We have detailed completely.

This sign makes it crystal clear that a year is solar according to al-quran.

I would like to draw your and Ayman's attention to a very important Rule when trying to understand Quran verses; This Rule is verse 3-7 Rule.
In such a rule, we have to know the Well-established verses and the non-well-established verses. Otherwise you will end up canceling out many verses in Quran because of following a non-well-established verse.
If you succeed in knowing the well-established verses, you will not need to cancel any verse.

Example, is Our case of Lunar year Vs Solar

Verse 17-12 says
And We made the night and the day as two signs, so We erased the sign of night and We made the sign of day to see-in, that you may seek bounty from your Lord, and that you may know the number of the years and the count. And everything We have detailed completely.

Verse 13-2
Allah is He Who raised the heavens without any pillars that ye can see; then He established Himself on the Throne; He has subjected the sun and the moon! Each one runs for an appointed period. He doth regulate all affairs explaining the Signs in detail, that ye may believe with certainty in the meeting with your Lord.

Verse 39-5
He has created the heavens and the earth with truth. He makes the night to go in the day and makes the day to go in the night. And He has subjected the sun and the moon. Each running for an appointed period. Verily, He is the All-Mighty, the Oft-Forgiving.

Verse 6-96
He Cleaver of the daybreak. He has appointed the night for resting, and the sun and the moon for Counting. Such is the measuring of the All?Mighty, the All?Knowing.

Verse 10-5
It is He Who made the sun a shining thing and the moon as a light and measured out for it stages, that you might know the number of years and the reckoning. All?h did not create this but in truth. He explains the Ay?t (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) in detail for people who have knowledge.

Verse 55-5
The sun and the moon for calculation

Verse 2-189
They ask you about the crescents. Say These are signs to mark fixed periods of time for mankind and for the pilgrimage. It is not Al-Birr that you enter the houses from the back but Al-Birr who fears All?h. So enter houses through their proper doors, and fear All?h that you may be successful.

Now find the Well established Verses, from above, that if you follow you do not need to Cancel out any of the other verses.

As you Know you are following the first verse 17-12 and canceling out all the other verses; thus you are breaking the Rule of 3-7

He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book in it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book others are not of well-established meaning. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is not of well-established meaning. Seeking discord, and searching for its interpretation, but no one knows its true meanings except Allah, and those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say "We believe in it; the whole of it is from our Lord"; and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.

Do you want to be from wicked with a sick Heart?

belH

Peace everyone,

I am also convinced, based on the god's verses, that prophet Muhammad was not from some place called Mecca, nor was the first bayt built there since the god says

396 Verily the first bayt put/placed for the people is verily the one at Bakka, blessed and a guidance for all the worlds.

Peace;
Now, try to find the weather Trend for The area you are talking about (Jordan and Baka).
And when you do, you will find that 9-81 is the Ultimate proof that Fighting was in Summer time after the 4 Restricted Months; thus Rammadan can not fall in summer time as Ayman says.
Peace

anthonywallace

Im just go be paitent. I have to analize this who forum. May God grant me the paitience. But for all I know is that i havent seen Aymen ordering righteousness nor forbiding to much evil. I fear more the warnings of belehamad than what ayman is presenting. Who is Ayman? And im not go keep sittin back while I see one striving in the cause of God and reciting His verses to them and ordering ritiousness and giving warning of the Fire, so im with belahamd. Here we have someone warning the people of Hell Fire and also bringing proofs and not speaking too much of his own accord.

The time for fasting has been made known, there should be no confusion about it. So stand to God traditionally or your own uncomman way, and then reflect. There is no madness in your friend he is only a warner to you in the face of a sever torture.

Or should we continue to reject traditinal fast and the warnings and wait for ayman?

ayman

Peace Anthony,

Or should we continue to reject traditinal fast and the warnings and wait for ayman?

What are you waiting for me on?

You can fast during the traditional arbitrary time if you want. Millions of sectarians do it anyway. They also take the four restricted full-moons as arbitrary "months" that are not consecutive despite knowing very well that passages such as 95 make it clear that they are consecutive. But of course they can't read 95 and the only thing they can do is use it in mindless argumentation as we see here. They also count 12.37 of their "months" in a year instead of 12 "shahr". They are unable to read "sun and moon" and only read "moon" and want to abrogate 1712. They mindlessly quote 2189 but they hypocritically start their pilgrimage on the 8th of Dhul-Hijjah and not with the waxing crescent and end it on the 10th of Dhul-Hijjah, not with the waxing or the waning crescents. So for them the crescents don't time anything about their pilgrimage and they are just lying. What they are really doing is blindly following in their forefathers misguided ways which are entirely based on Hadiths.

Again, you can time the fast based on Hadiths and lies and as I said millions of people do anyway. I give you credit though because unlike people here who hypocritically claim to follow the great reading/"quran" when they clearly aren't, you are at least honest enough to admit that for now you are merely following the traditional way.

Peace,

Ayman

belH

Peace Anthony,

They also count 12.37 of their "months" in a year instead of 12 "shahr".

No I do not; one year is 12 Moon Cycles.

They are unable to read "sun and moon" and only read "moon" and want to abrogate 1712.

I do not cancel out any of thoes verses
Verse 17-12 says
And We made the night and the day as two signs, so We erased the sign of night and We made the sign of day to see-in, that you may seek bounty from your Lord, and that you may know the number of the years and the count. And everything We have detailed completely.

Verse 13-2
Allah is He Who raised the heavens without any pillars that ye can see; then He established Himself on the Throne; He has subjected the sun and the moon! Each one runs for an appointed period. He doth regulate all affairs explaining the Signs in detail, that ye may believe with certainty in the meeting with your Lord.

Verse 39-5
He has created the heavens and the earth with truth. He makes the night to go in the day and makes the day to go in the night. And He has subjected the sun and the moon. Each running for an appointed period. Verily, He is the All-Mighty, the Oft-Forgiving.

Verse 6-96
He Cleaver of the daybreak. He has appointed the night for resting, and the sun and the moon for Counting. Such is the measuring of the All?Mighty, the All?Knowing.

Verse 10-5
It is He Who made the sun a shining thing and the moon as a light and measured out for it stages, that you might know the number of years and the reckoning. All?h did not create this but in truth. He explains the Ay?t (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) in detail for people who have knowledge.

Verse 55-5
The sun and the moon for calculation

Verse 2-189
They ask you about the crescents. Say These are signs to mark fixed periods of time for mankind and for the pilgrimage. It is not Al-Birr that you enter the houses from the back but Al-Birr who fears All?h. So enter houses through their proper doors, and fear All?h that you may be successful.

But you do abrogate all of them except 17-12.

You know why, because you have a sick heart as God told us in 3-7

He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book in it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book others are not of well-established meaning. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is not of well-established meaning. Seeking discord, and searching for its interpretation, but no one knows its true meanings except Allah, and those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say "We believe in it; the whole of it is from our Lord"; and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding (3-7)

They mindlessly quote 2189 but they hypocritically start their pilgrimage on the 8th of Dhul-Hijjah and not with the waxing crescent and end it on the 10th of Dhul-Hijjah, not with the waxing or the waning crescents. So for them the crescents don't time anything about their pilgrimage and they are just lying. What they are really doing is blindly following in their forefathers misguided ways which are entirely based on Hadiths.

Please read 2-197, and you will know when is Hajj for the Believers and not the Sectrians.

Ayman, we are not Sactrian (Suni or Shia or Ayman's Scet or any other) but we are the Sect of Allah. We strive to follow His words that are written in his Book; we reject all other Books, including your dictionary, when we are looking for the Truth. We know that the Truth is only in His Books.
And May God Lead us to his Truth, and make it our only Light in the darkeness of Lies.

If you want to End this in the Truth, Let us Use God's Book (Quran, Bible, and Torah) as a Judge between us and not any other book. And in this case our dispute is a) Lunar Year Vs Solar, b) is Rammadan happens only in Summer or not? c) is Fasting for all Moslems all over the world a Common Month or different Months? d) Is the Night of Kader one Night or many nights? e) do Blinds people have to Fast or not? f) Does Shaer Means Month or Full Moon. g) is Fasting for the Complete Moon Cycel or 10 days? h) are Moslems forbiden from Starting a war in the 4 Ristricted Month or not? i) is Land Hunting Forbiden during Hajj time or during the entire 4 ristricted Months?

Your Key to end this is the BOOK of God, because we are the Sect of God.

anthonywallace

Peace Anthony,

What are you waiting for me on?

You can fast during the traditional arbitrary time if you want. Millions of sectarians do it anyway. They also take the four restricted full-moons as arbitrary "months" that are not consecutive despite knowing very well that passages such as 95 make it clear that they are consecutive. But of course they can't read 95 and the only thing they can do is use it in mindless argumentation as we see here. They also count 12.37 of their "months" in a year instead of 12 "shahr". They are unable to read "sun and moon" and only read "moon" and want to abrogate 1712. They mindlessly quote 2189 but they hypocritically start their pilgrimage on the 8th of Dhul-Hijjah and not with the waxing crescent and end it on the 10th of Dhul-Hijjah, not with the waxing or the waning crescents. So for them the crescents don't time anything about their pilgrimage and they are just lying. What they are really doing is blindly following in their forefathers misguided ways which are entirely based on Hadiths.

Again, you can time the fast based on Hadiths and lies and as I said millions of people do anyway. I give you credit though because unlike people here who hypocritically claim to follow the great reading/"quran" when they clearly aren't, you are at least honest enough to admit that for now you are merely following the traditional way.

Peace,

Ayman

All Im sayin is that I believe that everyone deserves a hearing. And no idea is too small or too crazy for consideration. So Im trying to be paitient. And investigate carfully. I dont want to harm nobody wrongfully is what I thought. But then on the other hand I see one striving against you merly warning you with the quran,and they call you a misleader, sect, ect... And then I thought of the dog, how you are being scolded with the Fire, and if you scold him or not he still pants....

The way I see it is everyone fast at the same time ( the hyporcrits, the believers, the sects, ect...) the times for fast is made known. Do you know that you are causing a division?

I would like you to answer belahamad qusestions. And he said he dont count 12.37 of their months in a year instead of 12 " shahr"

And he dont cancel out any of them verses, ect...

And the hyporcrites are neither for or from you, they are swaying inbetween neither belonging to either side... is what i thought...too.............................................. peace

ayman

Peace Anthony,

All Im sayin is that I believe that everyone deserves a hearing. And no idea is too small or too crazy for consideration. So Im trying to be paitient. And investigate carfully. I dont want to harm nobody wrongfully is what I thought. But then on the other hand I see one striving against you merly warning you with the quran,and they call you a misleader, sect, ect... And then I thought of the dog, how you are being scolded with the Fire, and if you scold him or not he still pants....

You should have read 7175-176 before bungling up the example. The example in 7175-176 is about those who are given the god's signs but they instead continue to follow whatever it is they were following before they were given the god's signs. So the god's signs don't matter to them and whatever they do doesn't change as a result of the god's signs. Now who here on this thread hasn't changed their inherited timing of the fast based on the god's signs? Who has been using the great reading not to find out the timing but to work backwards to justify a preconceived timing? Answer this and you will see who is exactly like the dog example described in 7175-176, you give them the god's signs or not, they keep doing the same thing. This is why it is better to ignore them as I have been doing.

Anyone can mindlessly copy and paste passages from the great reading. So notice that they throw at you 2189 and 2197 but they don't tell you how their pilgrimage on the 8th of Dhu Al-Hijja is based on those passages. This is because of the fact is that their timing for the pilgrimage and for fast is entirely based on Hadiths and not on anything in the great reading.

The way I see it is everyone fast at the same time ( the hyporcrits, the believers, the sects, ect...) the times for fast is made known. Do you know that you are causing a division?

The believers are ALWAYS divided from the hypocrites and the sectarians. If letting go of all preconceptions and following the god's clear signs causes division away from the hypocrites and the sectarians then we must be doing something right.

I would like you to answer belahamad qusestions. And he said he dont count 12.37 of their months in a year instead of 12 " shahr"

He doesn't ask any sincere questions. If he doesn't ignore all the passages that he quotes which clearly say BOTH THE SUN AND THE MOON are used to count the years and if he doesn't ignore 1712 then he will answer his own questions.

And he dont cancel out any of them verses, ect...

This is not reality. He just admitted above to cancelling out 1712. He also cancelled the word "sun" out of all the passages that he quoted.

And the hyporcrites are neither for or from you, they are swaying inbetween neither belonging to either side... is what i thought...too.............................................. peace

The hypocrites know who they are. They are claiming to follow the great reading while all they are really doing is defending their inherited preconceptions. Hence they mindlessly copy and paste passages from the great reading without following those passages. I think that it is clear on this thread who they are.

Peace,

Ayman

Umm_Tariq

Peace all,

May the god reward you for your patience Ayman in replying. I had to also come to the conclusion to just ignore certain posts. My being new to this forum seems to expose them more as well. What, did I, after 14 grueling years as a sunni salafi just decide I will come to the forum and just follow some names on posts as opposed to others!!! ??? Since I don't know anyone personally, that's really what it is. I know better now to VERIFY everything I read. My Lord in His mercy didn't let me die on that shirk of sunnism, so am I now going to act foolish and absurd to just come and follow anyone CLAIMING to be following the god's book alone for judgment when most certainly shaytaan will be on this path more so? Just because some make MORE NOISE than others and throw names around and slander?

Being the internet, it makes it even easier for hypocrites, whoever they are, since their faces are hidden but the god didn't even tell the Prophet that he would know them by their marks, He could have made it possible, but by their 'lahnil qawl', 'the tone of their speech'. I also realize that sometimes we may have to reply just to let other innocent bystanders see the other side and they can decide for themselves. The Prophet had to beware of this as well and he was the recipient of the revelation

2204 And of mankind there is he whose speech may please you in this worldly life and he calls the god to witness as to that which is in his heart, yet he is the most quarrelsome of the opponents.

They can sound very convincing if one lacks proper understanding. For me, it has become too much like dealing with sunnis with the name calling, getting personal, accusing of disbelief without evidence and throwing around the god's threat as if they alone possess it. Been there done that and I can do without it. I came here for mature discussion with respect sincerely trying to increase in knowledge and understanding and I ask the god to expose for me the liars.

Umm Tariq