Is the Black stone god Shiva?
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Salaam Brother
Can I hear some more of your thoughts on below.If any article of yours on this subject would be really helpful
Peace
Peace,
Allen, I approach these concepts a bit different. There is still much to be investigated, but i don't agree with the conevtional concepts of Hajj. Like where does it say anti-clockwise? Or even walk around it in circles? These are non-Quranic rituals. If i say, let's walk around the city, does this mean i'm circumbulating the city? No, this refers to move in the concepts around it. Also the House Abraham build refers to the System, the Deen he build. Kaaba means base/foundation if i'm not mistaken, and so translated the verse that says kaaba, would say
597 God has made the foundation, the Sacred House(The Deen), a means of support for mankind, as also the holy month, the sacrificial offerings, and consecrated cattle, so that you may understand that known to God is all that is in the heavens and the earth, and God has knowledge of everything.
Also, where is kaaba/foundation connected with bowing? Masjid means place of prostration, which can be anywhere where people bow to God's laws, this includes your mind being masjid al-haram. Qibla means focus, so these verses refer to focus on implying God's laws in the land and your mind by my view.
2115 says God is everywhere, no particulair place is needed to direct ourselves too i believe. I do agree on facing the same direction, but this is already included with 4102, where it is ordered to stand with them.
Hajj is one of the most twisted conceptions in Islam. It refers to a debate between ALL the people of the world. Hajj literaly means debate and ?determination for a noble cause?.
Dr.Shabbir on Hajj
2196 (Peace cannot defend itself. Mankind has to guard it.) Therefore, observe the Hajj or Umrah Convention for Allah. If you are stranded, send in gifts that the congregation would utilize. Do not consider that by doing so you have relieved yourself of duty. Be with them at heart until the gifts have reached their destination. If someone is sick or has other compelling burdens denying him sending any contribution, then Abstinence for a few days at convenience, or an act of charity or fulfilling someone?s need shall be in order. If a person is present at the Convention but cannot afford to contribute, he should exercise Abstinence for a total number of ten days, three days there and seven days after coming home. This is for him whose folk do not live in the vicinity of the Convention. Be mindful of Allah, remembering the noble objective. And know that Allah's Law of Requital is strict in pursuing and grasping.
2197 The Convention shall take place in the months appointed for it and made well known to all. Whoever participates in the Convention shall refrain from sexual intimacy, slipping out of discipline and argumentation throughout Hajj. And whatever you accomplish for the good of mankind, Allah will acknowledge it. So make ample provision, yet the best provision is your good conduct. Be mindful of Me, O You of understanding!
There is still much to be researched. But i thought i would share it with you....
Peace bro...
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Peace,
Please read
http//19.org/index.php?id=91,554,0,0,1,0&PHPSESSID=667941349c996099696ab2220aad68a7
and
http//www.ourbeacon.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=455
and
http//www.ourbeacon.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=705
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Something I never understood is why we have to bow and spin anti-clockwise around a cube in the desert with a black stone?
Salaam,
This is something that has been on my mind for a long time now... not the black stone so much (to me that's just weird), but the cube itself. If the cube is made of stone and we use this stone cube as a focal point, well... I just don't get it. Since God is everywhere why would He tell us to pray towards a stone fixture made by man? This confuses me a lot because we are not to pray to any "thing"... only God.
Please help in my better understanding.
Peace
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What I think is weird is what the black stone looks like with the silver around it, and then people kiss it.
It is an easy way to absorb pagan traditions. Remove the idols, change the direction of the circling and you have a new tradition. Similar to the way the early Christian church absorbed tradtion from pagans- easter eggs, evergreens in the winter, etc.
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Peace Dotty,
This is something that has been on my mind for a long time now... not the black stone so much (to me that's just weird), but the cube itself. If the cube is made of stone and we use this stone cube as a focal point, well... I just don't get it. Since God is everywhere why would He tell us to pray towards a stone fixture made by man? This confuses me a lot because we are not to pray to any "thing"... only God.
Please help in my better understanding.Please see
http//www.free-minds.org/articles/history/ayman1.htm
Peace,
Ayman
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Salaam ayman,
I did read your article and it seems to focus on many traditional rituals and the points are valid.
However, I did not find anything which directly relates to my question... Are we suppose to pray toward a stone cube, and if so, doesn't that establish praying to something other than God? People have told me it's just a focal point, but I have a difficult time believing we are suppose to pray toward something made out of stone.
Peace
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Peace Dotty,
I did read your article and it seems to focus on many traditional rituals and the points are valid.
However, I did not find anything which directly relates to my question... Are we suppose to pray toward a stone cube, and if so, doesn't that establish praying to something other than God? People have told me it's just a focal point, but I have a difficult time believing we are suppose to pray toward something made out of stone.The answer to your question is of course that no one should pray towards a stone cube or any other object. There is nothing in the great reading that even remotely suggests such a foolish thing. Your intuition that this establishes praying to something other than the god is absolutely correct. It is not a focal point. Our only focal point wherever we are should be the truth from our lord, the inviolable institution of obedience, not some pagan stone shrine.
Peace,
Ayman
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Assalamualaikum brothers and sisters.
Dear global village,
According to the question has been imprinted in the head of non Muslims stated that ?they are not different because they are as Buddhist worshiping the Buddha image as idol which is made from stone while Muslims go round the Bitullah also made from stone which called Tawaf ? As Muslim worshiping Allah not Bitullah would like to clarify this point as followings Allah has made the Bitullah, the Sacred House, an asylum of security and Hajj and Umrah (pilgrimage) for mankind that you may know that Allah has knowledge of all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth, and that Allah is the All Knower of each and everything. That means all Muslim brothers and Sister went making Haj because of the commandment of Allah to perform accordingly. Bitullah or the house of Allah is not the habitation of Allah, but it is the place for those who are circumambulating it, or staying , or bowing or prostrating themselves (there, in prayer). When the Prophet entered Mecca on the day of the Conquest, there were 360 idols around the Ka'ba. The Prophet started striking them with a stick he had in his hand and was saying, "Truth has come and Falsehood will neither start nor will it reappear?. However, in comparison Bitullah with idol is different because of all Muslim nations go there just follow the maxims of ritual Haj not worship Bitullah. We warship Allah alone, there is no God but Allah. Allah is unseen - naked eye cannot see him. He is cannot be imagined with anything in the universe.Regards.
Wassalam
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I was told that Abraham built the stone cube.
I don't think so..
And there are no hard evidence of such...The Arabs (Desert People) built the stone cube..
As a sanctuary to house their idols...
From the "design" of the stone cube... it's clearly apparent that "the cubical structure" was not designed as sanctuary for human beings...Salam / Peace
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002.125
YUSUFALI Remember We made the House a place of assembly for men and a place of safety; and take ye the station of Abraham as a place of prayer; and We covenanted with Abraham and Isma'il, that they should sanctify My House for those who compass it round, or use it as a retreat, or bow, or prostrate themselves (therein in prayer).
PICKTHAL And when We made the House (at Makka) a resort for mankind and sanctuary, (saying) Take as your place of worship the place where Abraham stood (to pray). And We imposed a duty upon Abraham and Ishmael, (saying) Purify My house for those who go around and those who meditate therein and those who bow down and prostrate themselves (in worship).
SHAKIR And when We made the House a pilgrimage for men and a (place of) security, and Appoint for yourselves a place of prayer on the standing-place of Ibrahim. And We enjoined Ibrahim and Ismail saying Purify My House for those who visit (it) and those who abide (in it) for devotion and those who bow down (and) those who prostrate themselves.002.126
YUSUFALI And remember Abraham said "My Lord, make this a City of Peace, and feed its people with fruits,-such of them as believe in Allah and the Last Day." He said "(Yea), and such as reject Faith,-for a while will I grant them their pleasure, but will soon drive them to the torment of Fire,- an evil destination (indeed)!"
PICKTHAL And when Abraham prayed My Lord! Make this a region of security and bestow upon its people fruits, such of them as believe in Allah and the Last Day, He answered As for him who disbelieveth, I shall leave him in contentment for a while, then I shall compel him to the doom of Fire - a hapless journey's end!
SHAKIR And when Ibrahim said My Lord, make it a secure town and provide its people with fruits, such of them as believe in Allah and the last day. He said And whoever disbelieves, I will grant him enjoyment for a short while, then I will drive him to the chastisement of the fire; and it is an evil destination.002.127
YUSUFALI And remember Abraham and Isma'il raised the foundations of the House (With this prayer) "Our Lord! Accept (this service) from us For Thou art the All-Hearing, the All-knowing.
PICKTHAL And when Abraham and Ishmael were raising the foundations of the House, (Abraham prayed) Our Lord! Accept from us (this duty). Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Hearer, the Knower.
SHAKIR And when Ibrahim and Ismail raised the foundations of the House Our Lord! accept from us; surely Thou art the Hearing, the Knowing -
Peace PVB,
002.125
YUSUFALI Remember We made the House a place of assembly for men and a place of safety; and take ye the station of Abraham as a place of prayer; and We covenanted with Abraham and Isma'il, that they should sanctify My House for those who compass it round, or use it as a retreat, or bow, or prostrate themselves (therein in prayer).
PICKTHAL And when We made the House (at Makka) a resort for mankind and sanctuary, (saying) Take as your place of worship the place where Abraham stood (to pray). And We imposed a duty upon Abraham and Ishmael, (saying) Purify My house for those who go around and those who meditate therein and those who bow down and prostrate themselves (in worship).
SHAKIR And when We made the House a pilgrimage for men and a (place of) security, and Appoint for yourselves a place of prayer on the standing-place of Ibrahim. And We enjoined Ibrahim and Ismail saying Purify My House for those who visit (it) and those who abide (in it) for devotion and those who bow down (and) those who prostrate themselves.002.126
YUSUFALI And remember Abraham said "My Lord, make this a City of Peace, and feed its people with fruits,-such of them as believe in Allah and the Last Day." He said "(Yea), and such as reject Faith,-for a while will I grant them their pleasure, but will soon drive them to the torment of Fire,- an evil destination (indeed)!"
PICKTHAL And when Abraham prayed My Lord! Make this a region of security and bestow upon its people fruits, such of them as believe in Allah and the Last Day, He answered As for him who disbelieveth, I shall leave him in contentment for a while, then I shall compel him to the doom of Fire - a hapless journey's end!
SHAKIR And when Ibrahim said My Lord, make it a secure town and provide its people with fruits, such of them as believe in Allah and the last day. He said And whoever disbelieves, I will grant him enjoyment for a short while, then I will drive him to the chastisement of the fire; and it is an evil destination.How many people can you assemble inside a stone cube? How is it safe inside a stone cube or even outside? People get crushed to death all the time while fighting to kiss or touch the cube or the Black Stone. Also, try to proclaim anything that we are saying here in Mecca and if you are lucky you will be arrested and tortured before you get stoned to death by an angry mob. How is this safety?
How many people can place their feet in the footprint that sectarians call Maqam Ibrahim?
002.127
YUSUFALI And remember Abraham and Isma'il raised the foundations of the House (With this prayer) "Our Lord! Accept (this service) from us For Thou art the All-Hearing, the All-knowing.
PICKTHAL And when Abraham and Ishmael were raising the foundations of the House, (Abraham prayed) Our Lord! Accept from us (this duty). Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Hearer, the Knower.
SHAKIR And when Ibrahim and Ismail raised the foundations of the House Our Lord! accept from us; surely Thou art the Hearing, the KnowingThey raised the foundations FROM the house. Please read the original Arabic.
Peace,
Ayman
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LOL!! That is muslim with a small m, but I was told it does not mean peace but submitter. As Islam means submission.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam
Islam (Arabic ; al-'islm (help?info); pronounced ) is a monotheistic Abrahamic religion originating with the teachings of the Prophet of Islam Muhammad, a 7th century Arab religious and political figure. The word Islam means "submission", or the total surrender of oneself to God (Arabic , Allh). An adherent of Islam is known as a Muslim, meaning "one who submits "
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Peace PVB,
LOL!! That is muslim with a small m, but I was told it does not mean peace but submitter. As Islam means submission.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam
Islam (Arabic ; al-'islm (help?info); pronounced ) is a monotheistic Abrahamic religion originating with the teachings of the Prophet of Islam Muhammad, a 7th century Arab religious and political figure. The word Islam means "submission", or the total surrender of oneself to God (Arabic , Allh). An adherent of Islam is known as a Muslim, meaning "one who submits "So when you say "salamu alaikum", this means "submission be upon you"!
The forms SaLAM (Fa3AL), ISLAM (IF3AL), and MuSLiM (MuF3iL) are fairly common in the Arabic language and the relationship between those forms is crystal clear. You can find hundreds of examples of such forms in Arabic and figure out the relation between them and see that ""muslim" means peacemaker. Also, if the concept originated from the teachings of Abraham, then none of the people of the book ever heard of this "submission". In fact, the noun "submission" is never mentioned in the Bible. On the other hand, peace/peacemaker are mentioned no less than 450 times in the Bible.
Peace (not submission) be upon you,
Ayman
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Salaaman Arnold,
Allen, I approach these concepts a bit different. There is still much to be investigated, but i don't agree with the conevtional concepts of Hajj. Like where does it say anti-clockwise? Or even walk around it in circles? These are non-Quranic rituals. If i say, let's walk around the city, does this mean i'm circumbulating the city? No, this refers to move in the concepts around it. Also the House Abraham build refers to the System, the Deen he build. Kaaba means base/foundation if i'm not mistaken, and so translated the verse that says kaaba, would say
Yes, you are mistaken brother, I think.
Kaaba is singular and Kaabayin is Dual used in 56
Regards,
mmKhan