Hot/"ramadan" Answer
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"I will not pay any attention to constructive criticism of my posts because I have made up my mind and will not change no matter what even if my position contradicts al-quran or creates inconsistencies in it. On the other hand, you guys should pay more attention to what I am saying because I am always right. I am right because of the following logic
BECAUSE I SAY SO"
The problem here I think is that you've only read 3 lines into all of my posts. You will only see it your way then you accuse me of something that you are probably mroe guilty of than I am. If you actually read through my posts you would see the logic and the complete lack of inconsistencies. I have addressed everything that you call an inconsistency and you have done no more than nitpick at my choice of words 'compensate, substitute etc. etc.' So believe me the problem is not mine, and the logic is simple. In every case in the Quran where a fast can be compensated or subsittuted (FOR WHATEVER THE ORIGINAL REASONS FOR THIS FAST MIGHT BE) it is done on a daily basis by feeding one person per day therefore equaling the concpept of 2 shahr to 60 days. All of the responses saying that this is not a Quranic idea or that it is not Quranically consistent have ignored what I just posted above in parenthesis and in caps.
So it is not because I say so, it is because this makes sense and I know that those who have a sincere heart and mind will see this. I am not going to expose what I feel are your motives anymore because whether I am right or wrong you and others will only see them as an attack. But I say this as more of a promise to make an effort on my part. Because if you take things too far I will write what I feel is the truth about your ideas and motivations in this conversation and then I will opt out of the conversation or choose to retort what I feel is releveant and I will not take care to use language that will offend you in the least.
So here is the solution Now that i have seen your arguments I will state what I have to say to reach out to those who will listen. I have seen that you will not listen, so you can just state what you believe and what you think about my ideas (only referring to the ideas and not to me) and why they are not correct. I will do the same. This is what I have tried to do with my last post by not mentioning names and specifically saying that I have nothing personal agianst you, Ayman or siki for that matter. So to keep this from being a back and forth titt for tatt type of deal, how about we agree to this method of discussion, not mentioning or alluding to each other but rather solely the ideas and conclusions that we espouse here. Thanks and as always . . .
Godbless,
Anwar -
Peace everyone,
Quote from progod
So whereas 1/6 of an apple is still and will stays an apple (that goes for inheritance as well), 1/6 of a month is never and will never be a month
.This is called self-contradiction. I don't know whether to laugh at this or bang my head on the wall, so I will do both Tongue laugh brickwall
The fact remains that there are 12 and 1/6 Anwar months in a solar year. If not, then there are 11 Anwar months and the 12th month has 35 days, thus not an Anwar month by definition. Either way it is a glaring inconsistency.
You really in all honesty do not understand that? Roger that. I feel sorry for you man. I will end the conversation here if you are willing. Because you nailed the coffin with this one and if you can't see why then we can just let bygones be bygones. As always . . .
sun Godbless,
Anwar -
Peace everyone,
Please note that Anwar has carefully avoided answering ALL the inconsistencies and contradictions created by his Anwar months, and instead chose to focus only one one or two of them. The answers are conspicuous by their absence!
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Peace,
Didn't i warn you against this? Cease and desist the personal provocations and false accusations. Below is my post in quotes. For anyone who wants to see if I have addressed these so-called inconsistencies or not please read my previous posts quoted below. For those who actually read it with sincerity thank you.
I will comment on the 12 and 1/6 comments using a similar example. A decade is 10 years as we all know. If I ask someone how many decades are in 55 years what would the answer be? Simply 5. There are only 5 decades in 55 years. Now if we want to be exact in describing 55 years (and not dealing with the question of how many decades are in 55 years) we can say that 55 years = 5 decades and a half of a decade (and in short-hand or short-tounge if you will you say 5 1/2 decades). But in all essence and truth, half of a decade IS NOT a decade, nor is 50 years a century even if we can describe it as half of a century. I think that is tricky for some because it is an issue of idioms having meaning but not representing reality yet this is very simple. You may go your whole life calling 5 years 'half a decade' but when the question is posed how many decades is 5 years, the answer is none, because 5 yeras is not a decade even if it is half of one. In that same truth 1/6 of a month is not a month. So If there are 12 months and 5 days in a year and someone asks you how many months are in a year you simply say 12, period. 12 1/6 months is an expression to describe 365 days but 1/6 of a month has never been and never will be a month. That is the truth of the matter. If that is too complicated for some or even if no one wants to admit it, it is the truth. It has nothing to do with whether God knows fractions or not. In the case of fraction use in the Quran I have seen that it used in the case of goods. So whereas 1/6 of an apple is still and will stays an apple (that goes for inheritance as well), 1/6 of a month is never and will never be a month.
Peace,
This post is not directed to or a response to anyone in particular.
First I wanna say to each his own. I see that we are all gonna have to make our decisions personally, because there will be no consensus here. Secondly in defense of people who use the term ''new moon" they mean waxing crescent. In reality a new moon is not visible and is after the waning crescent disapears and before the waxing crescent appears again. But I think those who use new moon mean to say waxing crescent and that should be understood and corrected with comprehension when someone uses the wrong term, not manipulated, twisted and spit back as a counter argument.
Second I wanna say that a year can be counted in different ways. There is the solstice year (whch I have a hunch is connected more to the term sanah (being seasonal years) or just from one season until the repetition of that same season), there is a year where the same day comes back around or the beginning of the same season (that in my hunch is more connected to hawl as the revolution of a certain day or season), then there are years based on fixed calendars, hence we have Jewish, Buddhist, hindu, Chinese, Islamic etc. new years which are based on different fixed calendar systems (I think this concept of a year is more connected to the term 3aam, based on the Quran's usage of this word in a possesive way in relation to the Arabs of the Quran's time.) With that said I'm sure there have been years where 12 lunar cycles have fit within a solstice based year. All we have to do is follow any particlar Islamic month backwards until it occurs directly after the solstice, or project forward to such an event.
Third I wanted to say that 2183 brings up the topic of fasting, 2184 lays down exceptions to fast and that a ransom/compensation/substitute for a fast is feeding a needy person 2185 mentions how a shahr of Ramadan is a time for fasting 2186 clarifies our relationship with God 2187 tells us that a fast is a daily event done during daylight hours and lets us know that whereas eating may be fine in a place of worship at the end of the fast sex is not.
With that clear I would like to repeat that every daily fast that can be compensated/ransomed for in the Quran is compensated by feeding one needy person. 584 lets us know using the previous passages that 2 months = 60 daily fasts i.e. 60 days.
Hence the equation is 1 needy person = 1 daily fast = 1 day. And knowing that 2 shahr = 60 needy persons = 60 daily fasts = 60 days. Knowing that, I don't think it is difficult to know that 1 shahr = 30 days.
Again I will repeat the key idea here Every daily fast that can be compensated/subsituted/ransomed for in the Quran is compensated by feeding one needy person
If fasting is the last option then it cannot be compensated/ransomed/substituted for and previous options before fasting cannot be seen as compensations, ransoms or subsitutes for fasting because fasting in such contexts has NO compensation. Hence these occurence cannot be included in these equations because they are incompensatable and unsubstitutable fasts. Some such contexts for reference are 492, 2196, 589.
So with that said I think it is quite obvious that the Quran concept of shahr = 30 days. I've shown how as it concerns the dictionaries defintions 29 sunset to sunset days translates into 30 sunrise to sunrise days.
In addition to that and in closing. The concept of ramadan in the dictionaries has nothing to do with the color red, orange or yellow. It has only to do with the senation of intense heat, be that from weather, from friction or from occular irritation. So assuming that ramadan has something to do with the color red is an assumption NOT found in the dictionaries and with no evidence pointing to any possiblity that the Quran means the color red when it uses any form of the root word ramada.
Also I don't see 936 as a command in any fashion. But a statement that there have been 12 shahr in how God decreed things to be since he made the heavens in the earth. This gives me the impression that even before mankind was involved in this whole figuring out and counting a shahr deal that there were always just 12 of them in a year (the yearly context is clarified in 937 with the use of the term an-nasee' And as it concerns 3adad and 3iddah. the meaning of these terms can overlap. Literally adad is what is counted, and 3iddah is a count. But if we assume that a day has 24 hours, both the hours counted and the count of hours is 24, and hence the meaning becomes the same. So i find arguments based on the difference between these two words about the meaning of shahr or how many shahr are in a year and whether we are to leave out the 13th full moon if we take shahr as full moon becomes too semantical and word playish. It's the difference between saying the count of months and the number of months, and frankly although there is a difference, emphasizing it to prove a point is word play. In the end the count is God's (Inna 3iddata ash-shuhoori 3ANDA ALLAHI) and not ours and I think it is fair to expect that his count would be representative of what really is.
This is how I see it. There is no need for a barrage of attacks or repeats of previous counter arguments. I just wanted those interested to read my conclusions, observations and logic of the whole issue instead of thinking I have any personal interest in attacking Ayman or truthseeker's (proponents of the Red solstice moon theory for shahru ramadaana) or those who still believe that shahr should be Quranically seen as a lunar cycle begining and ending with the waxing crescent which I disagree with as well based on the obvious issue a 12 month lunar year poses for representing accurate and stable dates.
Godbless,
AnwarAs always . . .
sun Godbless,
Anwar -
peace everyone,
Since my points have gone unanswered, I will repost them too
Now let us discuss "Anwar month", which by his definition (in his imaginary wonderland) consists of exactly 30 days.
If shahr already means "month of 30 days" (Anwar month) in 2185, then saying "complete the count" would be redundant. But, I forgot that God's book is full of redundancies.
If shahr means "month of 30 days" (Anwar month), then "falyasumhu"/fast it would mean fasting for 30 days straight without any break, which would be impossible. But, I forgot that God asks us to do impossible super human feats in his book.
If shahr means "month of 30 days" (Anwar month), then the count of such Anwar months in a solar year would be 12 and 1/6. God has used words for fractions in al-quran and 1/6 in Arabic is "sudus". If shahr meant "Anwar months" then God should have said "the count of shuhoor is ithna 'ashara wa sudus". But, I forgot that God does not know how to count in fractions!
If shahr means "Anwar month" then 12 such months would be 360 days and that will leave 5 days in a solar year. If we skip those five days to start the next "Anwar month", then the last month will have 35 days, not 30, and "Anwar month's" definition will automatically be contradicted. No matter how you count it, there will be only 11 Anwar months in a solar year. The 12th month will not be an Anwar month because it will have 35 days.
If shahr means "Anwar month", then al-quran was descended in an "Anwar month" according to one verse (2185), but descended in one night according to two other verses (443, 971). But, I forgot that God's book is full of contradictions.
If shahr means "Anwar month", then how can we witness such an Anwar month as per 2185?
What is so special about those 30 magical days that we can witness them?
Even if those 30 days are special and different from other days in Anwar's wonderland, witnessing the shahr would require witnessing all 30 days BEFORE we start fasting. We can start fasting only AFTER we have witnessed the 30 days, to make sure we have witnessed the Anwar month. We cannot fast during those 30 magical days, because then we have not witnessed the Anwar month yet; but then how long do we fast?
We are asked to witness the shahr first and then fast it in 2185. In order to witness an Anwar month, we will have to witness all the 30 magical days BEFORE we start fasting. How can we start fasting in the magical Anwar month before witnessing it completely first?
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Peace everyone,
I wasn?t going to reply to hardhead anymore although this may benefit others.
If this is not consistent then God is not consistent when He asks menstruating women to wait for 3 menstruations.
IF divorce is day before a menstruation wait 54 days = 3 menstruations
IF divorce is day after a menstruation wait 27 + 54 days
IF divorce is 10 days after a menstruation wait 17 + 54 daysWhat menstruations are you talking about?
Stop banging your head and pay attention!
http//www.mckinley.uiuc.edu/Handouts/irregular_menses/irregular_menses.html
654 And those who became infertile/despaired from the menstruation from your women, if you became suspicious, so their term (is) three months, and those who did not menstruate...
- Women who DO NOT menstruate!
- They can be pregnant at 54 days and NOT know it!
- If they marry, the father will NOT be the new husband
You are disobeying God!
Verse says for them to wait 3 months to ensure they are NOT pregnant when the baby is this large...
http//www.babycenter.com/slideshow-baby-size
http//assets.babycenter.com/ims/2007/10oct/20071004/12-lime.jpg?width=424&height=302&pad=true
It is very logical. Fasting for 2 consecutive full-moons means you start your daily fast when you see a full-moon and keep fasting every day from daytime to night until you see the second full-moon and then stop.
That is only 29 days ? verse says to fast 2 months and you are again disobeying God.
What is illogical is fasting for 2 consecutive months. How can someone fast non-stop for 2 months without a break? I forgot again; God asks us to perform impossible super human feats in His book.
Super human feats? Are you right in the head?
You seem to scribble the first thoughts which pop in your head without thinking.
A billion people including elderly and children fast a month each year.
Once a person gets into the mode they can easily fast another month.
It's not like you can't eat/drink after sunset; every day is new day and a fresh start.
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Peace Nun,
I wasn?t going to reply to hardhead anymore although this may benefit others.
What menstruations are you talking about?
Stop banging your head and pay attention!
http//www.mckinley.uiuc.edu/Handouts/irregular_menses/irregular_menses.html
654 And those who became infertile/despaired from the menstruation from your women, if you became suspicious, so their term (is) three months, and those who did not menstruate...- Women who DO NOT menstruate!
- They can be pregnant at 54 days and NOT know it!
- If they marry, the father will NOT be the new husband
You are disobeying God!
They can also be pregnant at 90 days and not know it. You are still unable to read and quote the whole verse. The waiting for three full-moons is ONLY for those who despaired from menstruations and only if you (not they) became suspicious. So the waiting is actually ZERO if you are not suspicious. So she can marry 1 second after the divorce not even 54 days or three months or whatever!
As for those who did not menstruate since the divorce (but haven't despaired from menstruation), they and those who are pregnant have to wait the gestation period.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace,
Mr. Truthseeker11. I find your repost of that issue to be quite disrespectful. To call them 30 day months and to deal with the issue as such is fine. But to call them Anwar months and to repost the wonderland comment is utterly disrespectful. Please take that Anwar month stuff out of there. It is a personal provocation towards me and I do not appreciate it. And contradictions you have can be solved through seriously considering what you consider contradictions. I took the liberty in responding to the points below of taking out the disrespectful commentary.
As it concerns the isssues at hand I will post comments after the comments that were posted for clarification, then I think I'm gonna leave this alone for a while as I have made my position clear and only jumped back in to offer my position to those who may not have read it not to engage in derrogatory back and forths
If shahr already means "month of 30 days" in 2185, then saying "complete the count" would be redundant. But, I forgot that God's book is full of redundancies.
This is not redundant God wants us to complete the month in fasting. It is an ecouragement to fast. Although God's book does repeat and clarify I don't find the book very redundant. But Classical Arabic does have seeminly redundant style but this is used for clarification of details as well.
If shahr means "month of 30 days" , then "falyasumhu"/fast it would mean fasting for 30 days straight without any break, which would be impossible. But, I forgot that God asks us to do impossible super human feats in his book.
Again this is not true. How many times have people, including Muslims said they were fasting the month of Ramadan? But are they fasting the nights as well? No. So are they lying? Are we lying when we say sunrise and sunset? So it is an expression that doesn't specifically have to mean to fast even the nights. Quranically, the Quran first says to fast the month and then clarifies on how to fast duriing it. Does to touch a person mean to touch their whole body? Same issue. Whatever confusion that would have been caused by this statement is cleared up in 2187.
If shahr means "month of 30 days" , then the count of such Anwar months in a solar year would be 12 and 1/6. God has used words for fractions in al-quran and 1/6 in Arabic is "sudus". If shahr meant "Anwar months" then God should have said "the count of shuhoor is ithna 'ashara wa sudus". But, I forgot that God does not know how to count in fractions!
This question has been answered. Please refer to my previous posts. I will be glad to pm them to anyone interested or to post them again as quotes for those truly concerned.
If shahr means " 30 day month" then 12 such months would be 360 days and that will leave 5 days in a solar year. If we skip those five days to start the next "Anwar month", then the last month will have 35 days, not 30, and "Anwar month's" definition will automatically be contradicted. No matter how you count it, there will be only 11 Anwar months in a solar year. The 12th month will not be a 30 day month because it will have 35 days
.If a month is 30 days then it cannot be 35 days. Hence the extra five days are not apart of any month. They are 5 days leading towards the end of the year. By coincidence this happened to be the old egyptian system. These days were not considered apart of any month. There are 12 months that are counted in the year and these last 5 days are just that, 5 days that conclude the year. The argument is mute because no one is saying that there will be a perfect 12 month system not even the Quran says that a year will be 12 months exactly. But whereas you have to in my opinion unquranically ignore the natural 13th moon in counting the full moons to calculate a year these 5 days are counted as what they are, 5 extra days, a transitionary period if you will. There is no unquranic 13th month here that has to be ignored and there are naturally just 12 months in the year.
If shahr means "30-day month", then al-quran was descended in an "30-day month" according to one verse (2185), but descended in one night according to two other verses (443, 971). But, I forgot that God's book is full of contradictions.
The Quran talks about the book being given to the last prophet all at once, and whereas most Muslims say it was over time I believe that verse is saying that it was revealed to him all at once, so 443 adn 971 pose a problem to traditional Islamic beliefs but not to mine. 876 and 7518 might be the clue to why a month is mentioned in 2185 as when the book was revealed. Any other verses i come accross that support this I will be sure to pass along. To me it would seem that the book was revealed to him the first night and repeated to him thoughout the 29 days afterwards.
If shahr means "30 day month", then how can we witness such an 30-day month as per 2185?
The discussion on the meaning of shahida was fruitless to me. The word can be used to mean to vouch for, to experience, to witness, to see etc. etc. We are all witnessing September right now and we are going to witness October tomorrow. What does that mean in the context of 2185? If you are going to be alive and able for 30 days during your summer to fast, then fast those 30 days. There is no need to try to make shahida witness in a way that we only witness a day when we complete it. That is just not good sense. You witness the day as it begins. You can vouch for it as well if you know of it beforehand, and you can witness to its passing and your having lived through it afterwards. But to make shahida a witnessing that is something magical, special or something that can only be done after the minute, hour or day has passed is an incorrect limitation of the word.
What is so special about those 30 magical days that we can witness them?
I really don't see why they are magical? But if we are around for them then nash-hiduhum. We witness them. Not a big deal. In reality if we know about september of 2009 and when it will fall we nash-hiduhu (witness/vouch for it) also.
Even if those 30 days are special and different from other days, witnessing the shahr would require witnessing all 30 days BEFORE we start fasting. We can start fasting only AFTER we have witnessed the 30 days, to make sure we have witnessed the 30-day month. We cannot fast during those 30 days, because then we have not witnessed the 30-day month yet; but then how long do we fast?
I find this argument somewhat silly knowing what shahida means. I don't really feel like this comment was made in order to recieve the obvious answer.
As always . . .
sun Godbless,
Anwar -
Peace Anwar,
I really don't see why they are magical? But if we are around for them then nash-hiduhum. We witness them. Not a big deal. In reality if we know about september of 2009 and when it will fall we nash-hiduhu (witness/vouch for it) also.
Anwar, as I said and you admitted, you are following the Ancient Egyptian calendar, which is fine but then you have to acknoweldge its obvious flaws. Also, it is really no different than taking the five days and add them randomly to some of your 30 day months to make some of them 31 like the Gregorian calendar. You would end up basically with something that resembles very much the present Gregorian calendar and that has very little to do with the great reading. This is why you are comparing it to the Gregorian Calendar and saying witnessing September 2009. What you ignore is that September 2009 is completely arbitrary. It depends on when the new year was made to start, the order of the months, and on how the "5 missing" days were distributed. Had the Romans decided to name January as September and vice versa then you would now be talking about January 2009. Also, had the Julian calendar still been in use then you would be more than 10 days over.
Your problem is that your entire calendar is based on an over and over again discredited idea of how fasting and feeding the poor relate. But even if it was not completely discredited as you imagine, then still it is only ONE factor and you completely ignore all the other factors. I think that what Truthseeker means to say is how do you witness those 30 days since they are completely arbitrary and disconnected from the moon cycle. From what point do you start counting those 30 days and which 5 days out of the year are going to be redundant and you are going to ignore them and do they have to be consecutive and why. These are some of the major problems with your calendar that you have never answered. They are also the same exact problems that make the Gregorian calendar months arbitrary. Also, you ignore that you would need a leap year exactly like the Gregorian calendar but in your case with 6 redundant days instead of 5 every four years. So what you are presenting is basically a poor rehash of the Gregorian calendar (it too was originally adapted from the Egyptian calendar).
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace
This is a response to Ayman's post.
Anwar, as I said and you admitted, you are following the Ancient Egyptian calendar, which is fine but then you have to acknoweldge its obvious
I did not admit I was following the egyptian calender. Go back to my post and read carefully. I said
By coincidence this happened to be the old egyptian system.
So if you are insinuating that my main motive here is to adopt the Egyptian calendar, as I think you are, this is incorrect. As i stated, this is COINCIDENCE.Also, it is really no different than taking the five days and add them randomly to some of your 30 day months to make some of them 31 like the Gregorian calendar.
Again, that would be the case if I were trying to invent a calendar system. But I am not trying to invent anything. I am just following the Quranic clues. I have made i clear that the Quran promotes a 30 day shahr. So adding days to these thirty days and calling it a shahr would be unquranic and contradictory to the Quran. These 5 days at the end of teh 12th shahr are not included in any shahr and are naturally there. I am not adding or subtracting anything, they are just there, and that is not a problem. This has nothing to do with a Gregorian calendar but everything to do iwth a year. Solar years can be based on a full revolution of either of the two solstices (winter to winter or summer to summer) or the equinoxes (fall to fall or spring to spring). Or it can be the sum of those day 365.25 starting from any point in the year. Don't try to tack Gregorian onto me and make it seem like I'm just copying. That is a negtive and an incorrect assumption.
You would end up basically with something that resembles very much the present Gregorian calendar and that has very little to do with the great reading. This is why you are comparing it to the Gregorian Calendar and saying witnessing September 2009.
Alright hold the wild assumptions about my motives back. They seem to only smear me in the eyes of others. My conclusions have nothing to do with the Gregorian calendar, please get that out of the conversation. The fact that I mentioned September was only to say that whatever calendar is being used once you have some predictability you can witness future months, days, events, etc. Please do not try to associate me and my motives somehow with imitating the Gregorian calendear.
What you ignore is that September 2009 is completely arbitrary. It depends on when the new year was made to start, the order of the months, and on how the "5 missing" days were distributed.
I have not ignored this, nor do I fail to understand that. You read way too deeply into what I meant by September. Again, it was only to prove that once a calendar is predictable you can be a witness to future months, events, days etc. Hence there is no need to let a month, day or event pass in order to be a witness to it. As for the 5 days being distributed throughout the months in the Gregorian version of the Solar calender I disagree with this from a Quranic standpoint, obviously because a month is 30 days as the Quran implies it. So what they did was a manipulation to fit their own purposes. So lahum deenuhum, good on them, but it is not Quranic and it was not necessary.
Had the Romans decided to name January as September and vice versa then you would now be talking about January 2009. Also, had the Julian calendar still been in use then you would be more than 10 days over.
Again, for the reasons I mentioned the month September, any month could fit. I could used january, march, april, neesaan, huzairaan, or even months from the Jewish calendar. None of that matters. I have explained above twice already why I mentioned september. I hope you understand now and won't use it against me.
Your problem is that your entire calendar is based on an over and over again discredited idea of how fasting and feeding the poor relate. But even if it was not completely discredited as you imagine, then still it is only ONE factor and you completely ignore all the other factors.
I don't want to go in a back and forth where I say it wasn't discredited and you say it was and you say I'm in denial and then I say you're in denial. That's futile. I have ignored no factors, but you will put that into doubt. I only ask that those who are sincere read my posts and decide for themselves. I would also ask you to study what i've said more carefully. But you don't have to respond to that petition. It is your personal decision.
I think that what Truthseeker means to say is how do you witness those 30 days since they are completely arbitrary and disconnected from the moon cycle.
There is no need to mention a moon cycle here. Just like the word in English used to mean moon cycle and now means number of days that approximate a lunar cycle, using the dictionaries, the Quran and logic it is easy to see that shahr can also mean 29 or 30 days, and that the Quran promotes the shahr of 30 days in its context.
From what point do you start counting those 30 days and which 5 days out of the year are going to be redundant and you are going to ignore them and do they have to be consecutive and why.
Now you see I have never said we should ignore these days. Never. I don't believe in saying 'oh no, don't count that.' as with the 13th full moon issue. I am saying that whereas we must observe them and acknowledge them they do not constitute a month. That is not ignorng them. That is stating a fact. 1/6 of a month is just not a month, just like a half a century is not a century. So even with those 5 extra days if we ask the question how many months are there, we still only have 12 months in a year despite those last 5 days. I'm saying include them, count them in. Naturally and obviously they are apart of the year but recognize that 5 days is not a month and therefore 5 extra days does not add or take away form the 12 month count in the year.
These are some of the major problems with your calendar that you have never answered. They are also the same exact problems that make the Gregorian calendar months arbitrary. Also, you ignore that you would need a leap year exactly like the Gregorian calendar but in your case with 6 redundant days instead of 5 every four years. So what you are presenting is basically a poor rehash of the Gregorian calendar (it too was originally adapted from the Egyptian calendar).
I have indeed answered all your questions. Furthermore there is no need for a calculated addition of a leap year because if it takes an extra day to reach the solstice or equinox then that day will naturally add itself as we wait for the solstice or the equinox. After all this is a purely solar calendar. I used 365 as a general count for a year as is generally done. Do not take that literally. If from solstice to solstice it takes 366 days then there will be 6 days left over. There is no problem, the count of the months still remains 12 and the solstices and the equinoxes are the guide.
I looked on wiki and here is the reason the gregorian is like it is
The Gregorian calendar was designed to keep the vernal equinox on or close to March 21, so that the date of Easter (celebrated on the Sunday after the 14th day of the Moon (i.e. a full moon) that falls on or after March 21) remains correct with respect to the vernal equinox.[3I can assure you that the Quran and the true recording of time are my only concerns here, not Easter.
Here are the diffrent natural solar years taken from http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropical_year
vernal equinox 365.242 374 04 + 0.000 000 103 38?a days
northern solstice 365.241 626 03 + 0.000 000 006 50?a days
autumn equinox 365.242 017 67 0.000 000 231 50?a days
southern solstice 365.242 740 49 0.000 000 124 46?a daysIf one of these years drifts a day over a period of hundreds or thousands of years, then we just wait an extra 6 days (instead of a more common 5) until the completion of one of the above events and problem solved, we still just have 12 months in the year. There is no motive here other than having a correct and Quranic way of assessing the solar years. That year is 12 shahr of 30 days with 5 or possibly 6 transitional days that tag the end of the 12th month and that naturally do not make up a month.
As always . .
sun Godbless,
Anwar -
"Blessed is the night when we revealed Quran".
Was it sent down in a month, or all at once placed in mohammad'(pbuh) heart? I think the verse clearly tells us that it came down in a night, and which was it ? Most probably The night of Full Red moon.
Isn't it plain and simple?
But we keep searching Kadar, during the odd nights in the last ashra of an imaginary month Ramadhan.
peace
siki
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If we start counting month from shahrr, as per God's instructions, whenever we witness a full moon we would say
Oh" a month has gone by (every new full moon would ring the bell of a month in our brains)
Over a reasonable period of time the primary meaning (full moon) would be relegated to secondary and we would start to identify shahrr with a month.
Most likely this is how the primary meanings got corrupted.
peace siki
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If God tells us "that he revealed Quran in the night of shahrr" ( Full moon) and that particular Shahrr (1 out 12) was the Ramadhan one (Red moon) , so fast for days who so ever witnesses it,,,
we will start calling that particular shahrr, as the Ramadhan one
Over a period of time, we will name that particular month as "Ramadhan" and its original meaning would be lost, And all what would come down to us would be a "month of Ramadhan". Which , when started rotating, completely lost its Marker(Red moon) and hence its original meaning bite dust.
peace
siki -
Peace All,
Is FULL MOON called badr or shahr in Arabic? Can somebody explain the difference please?
Moon has different stages. The cresent stages , and the Badr stages, when it is like a cresent (6-8 days) wanning or waxing, it could be called Ahillat(cresent) then we have a roundish figure for about 6-8 days in total (The badar stages) Out of these Badars, One is Full moon known as Shahrr, which could serve as marker for month count.(GOd's choice)
A very logical choice indeed, we cant miss it , it is available for Maximum possible time , and is The brightest.
And now, go find The cresent moon , specially the one which is running after the sun and vanishes almost along the sun ???
Like every year, last night, there has been a mess up here in pakistan for locating this so called cresent moon, The Met had declared, "As the moon is on zero deggree, so there is absouletly no chance of its sighting"
The Four comitties consisting of dozens of Mulllahs sitting on top of towers with telescopes , declared officially at 8 PM that no moon sighting, fast tomorrow ,hence people went for salat ul Taraweeh, came back and slept.
At 2315 hrs we were woken up by the news that the moon has been sighted by some one , hence the Govt has declared Eid tomorrow, The Govt, probably did it under pressure from the Fact , "That how can there be a difference of two days between Saudi Eid and pakistani Eid?
I picked up my sleeping kids, threw them in the car, and left for my family home (in another town) at 1 AM, and reached at dawn.
The sleeping shopkeepers rushed to their shops and opened them for this so called "Chand Raat"(Moon night) where as this "Chand Raat" should be the Full bright moon night. Not the NO Chand Raat
What a total nonsense this is. If we don't have the ability to decipher GOd's words with logic and reason , sure we will be messed up.
peacesiki
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Anti Ayman camp! I wish you peace and tranquality.
How do you witness a man made arbitrary month? Do you think God used this word (witness), "Just casually" I think you guys have stayed in the forum long enough to witness , "That His choice of words is absoutely precise and Delibrate".
The wisdom behind each usage, "sometimes we know, and some times we find" ! But is NEVER, NEVER CASUAL, and when we dont find (wisdom) "please keep striving to find" , because his words are balanced to perfection.
Evidences are just too many, "Come on friends, If you still stick with the traditonal fast, I think your logic circuit is either shut down or due for a major Overhaul.
siki
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Dear Ayman
The more I dig this subject, the more proofs pop out in fovour of your thinking line . But remember , i am not with you , I am with the truth, and looking for a chance to hop over to otherside the moment I get an undisputable proof OTHERWISE.
If you recall , all these years , I never approved , nor opposed your Red moon thinking, because it deserved a fair chance for verification. On the other hand, when , like all/any of us mortals, you fell , and illogically defended your logic on differnt subjects, I pounded you.
But so for , I think , you pulled this one Right, and hence deserve pat on your back for the hard work and perseverence.
Two thumbs up for Dr Ayman handshake
siki