Oral Debate between Ayman and Edip...

Supernaut

Lobster,

I don't think 2130 and 5147 are metaphorical because I think the easiest way to understand them is to understand them to be about the Big Bang and the expansion of the universe respectively. I think the idea that the reading has many, many metaphorical verses is off-putting and untenable.

I hope the accident you were in wasn't serious and I'm glad you have a positive attitude about it.

ayman

Peace Bahman,

That was Nun's
No interlock
No security, no divinity and simply the claim collapse . Masha Allah . Please try this one too Click to image takes you to source.
http//creatorsignature.com/thekey.JPG
Peace

Your number has 274 digits and is multiple of 19. I can add to the first chapter of the great reading some false verses and make it a far more impressive 418 (19x22) digits multiple of 19

1919191919191919191919191919191919191995153945638573845617119260401303051302008405013020081040217130
8404303052002130703040105031213020084050130200810404114030201064013041050519110120507024611012050604
0070105061815450113090200913040604001001040743902009130700105015070404007030105401000102001304010008
0062703010540630113080013010504566757312636313857386555623665551279131106034292419191919191919191919
191919191919191919

Notice that not only my code is longer than yours but my chapter starts and ends with sets of initials which "interlock" rotfl the chapter on both ends so it is more "secure" and your claim collapsed more easily than Nun's.

Peace,

Ayman

anthonywallace

What is the scorcher?

nimnimak_11

Wow!!!

really looking forward to this!!!

I'm not familiar with pal talk so i would appreciate any recordings in which i could download it. It's also a good chance to present 19 to my parents in which there are arguments for and against 19.

Good luck to both hope you both put forward the best of what you know and come closer to the truth.

God bless the event

peace

nimnimak_11

Peace Farida

I also dislike the idea of sects.

But in this case i think that it's just two people debating something in relation to the Quran. I don't really think that we can define the belief in code 19 or not believing in code 19 as sects. I think it can only be classified as a sect when the belief in 19 has it's own rules such as how we uphold salat. but it's just one issue with respect to the Quran just as salat is debated or ramadan is debated, this is another.

I think it's an incredible feature of the Quran which i believe God willed. Thus i think it has a purpose.

peace

farida

My only issue is with Chapter 9 and removing the two verses (major contradiction) along with claims of messenger and other nonsense which get into peoples heads. Imagine if everyone who discovered something new in Quran did that ? It?s only pattern same as a crystal structure. No need to freak out and proclaim oneself a messenger over observing it.

Seconded!!

Peace Farida

I also dislike the idea of sects.

But in this case i think that it's just two people debating something in relation to the Quran. I don't really think that we can define the belief in code 19 or not believing in code 19 as sects. I think it can only be classified as a sect when the belief in 19 has it's own rules such as how we uphold salat. but it's just one issue with respect to the Quran just as salat is debated or ramadan is debated, this is another.

I think it's an incredible feature of the Quran which i believe God willed. Thus i think it has a purpose.

peace

Salaam Nimnimak,

If, constantly promoting the 19credo, carrying the 19avatar, and referring to the person who discovered the 19 code as 'the Messenger', and above all campaigning to remove 2 ayat from the Quran because they don't fit the 19 pattern, making code 19 a driving force is not about being a sect ?

There is a purpose in every sign of God hail

anthonywallace

peace all,

Lets take a look at the verse that rashid claim should be removed

" towards the believers he is compassionate, merciful?" But God is the merciful, the most merciful.

9128 A messenger has come to you from yourselves, concerned over your suffering, anxious over you, towards the believers he is compassionate, merciful.

Chapter 9 is taliking about killing and attacking, not about if they turn away; then say the below. No, i believe in chapter 9 that if they turn away then you shall take them and kill them. See below

9129 If they turn away, then say ?God is enough for me, there is no god but He, in Him I put my trust and He is the Lord of the great throne.?

also, what about the missing bissmila in chapter 9. It may be a sign that the devil intefered with his wishes. God said He would do this didnt He?

And a messenger came to muhammad to authenticate what was with him. While the quran is an authenticater of everthing before and after it.

However, I dont believe everything about the 19 as far as the 5 salats and ruks and all that. But it may be proof that Allah knows what is in the heavens and the earth. And 5 salats may have been the practice of muhammad. Jesus salated as long as he was alive (From early morning till late at night). But whatever you do or however many times a day you salat, do not turn away those who call on their Lord dawn and dusk seeking His presence according to Quran.

Let us ask this. If we removed those two verses, what message would the Quran be missing? Or in other words, what harm will it really do to remove those verses, ( not saying that its is for me to change it of my own accord, but to say that we should enforce awarnes of it? Would i be miscivous in only calling on my Lord alone. The merciful, the most merciful.

( Note that I am still studying this and im just openly sharing my thoughts, questions,and observations regarding this. )

And what is the scorcher? Over the scorcher is 19! So is the scorcher the Quran?

peace

ayman

Peace Anthony,

And what is the scorcher? Over the scorcher is 19! So is the scorcher the Quran?

Unfortunately, many 19ers falsely quote this "over it is 19" part in isolation to imply that "over it is 19" refers to the great reading and a bunch of other things (the golden ratio, etc...). They take advantage of naive English speakers who will not verify the information and look in the original text to see that in Arabic there is no gender neutral "it" and the passage actually has "3alayha" which literally means "over her" and the Arabic word "quran" is masculine while "saqar"/scorcherer/fire is feminine. So "over it" is actually refering to nothing but the hellfire.

Peace,

Ayman

truthseeker11

Peace everyone,

Mathematics is one of my favorite subjects and once upon a time, when I initially found out about code 19 I found it fascinating. Unfortunately, after spending countless hours and burning the midnight oil to research and verify the existence of code 19 in al-quran, I found ZERO evidence of the so called code 19 from al-quran. Believe me, I wanted to find the so called code 19 in al-quran, but I couldn't despite my positive bias in favor of code 19. On the contrary, I found evidence that it is just a fitna, and alhamdulillah, my faith has been strengthened by it being a fitna/trial for the rejecters. As far as I am concerned, the debate will make zero difference for me, but for the sake of others, I hope that truth prevails. I agree with others that some kind of audio recording of the debate should be made available to everyone. In the end, only God guides and truth will definitely prevail on the Last Day.

Bahman

I can add to the first chapter of the great reading some false verses

Ayman

Peace Ayman
I was waiting long time for such claim

I can add to the first chapter of the great reading some false verses

This is very important for me and many others searching for truth.
Please stay away from mocking and joking and show me a complete chapter with real meaning of your verses with real meaning and equal Rhymed style as GR to be approved by Edip and others know Arabic.

You do not have to add . Just produce one like it

Number of verses should be 7 or higher. This gives you a chance that your first design (number one ) followed by 1234567 would interlock automatically to code 19 at list you have one but copied.
Now remind you the pattern would be
Chapter number followed by

Number of verse followed number of letters in first verse followed by numerical text.
Number of verse followed number of letters in second verse followed by numerical text
Number of verse followed number of letters in third verse followed by numerical text
Number of verse followed number of letters in fourth verse followed by numerical text
Number of verse followed number of letters in fifth verse followed by numerical text
Number of verse followed number of letters in sixth verse followed by numerical text
Number of verse followed number of letters in seventh verse followed by numerical text
Number of verse followed number of letters in seventh verse followed by numerical text followed by number of letters used to design.
http//creatorsignature.com/7key.jpg

I think consistency in above can satisfy your expectation toward code.
If you do above it would be enough and I am not asking to find if your work has following INTERLOCKS too.
http//y19.net/7inchp1.html
http//y19.net/666197.html
I would response to second part of your post ?Interlock? in another post.
Now your reputation is INTERLOCKED into your claim. )
Peace

nimnimak_11

Peace

I don't think that to be intrigued by is not the same as worshiping.

code 19 is interesting. The 4 seasons are interesting. the ocean is interesting. Bees are interesting. But to find them interesting is not the same as worshiping.

I think the issue of 19 has been taken too seriously by some. Those who fault it and those who follow it alike.

peace

Peace everyone,

It is called the Fibonacci pattern or the Golden Ratio

http//www.world-mysteries.com/sci_17.htm

http//britton.disted.camosun.bc.ca/fibslide/jbfibslide.htm

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibonacci_number#Fibonacci_numbers_in_nature

http//www.mathsisfun.com/numbers/nature-golden-ratio-fibonacci.html

http//www.math.uiuc.edu/~gfrancis/math306/math306web/GoldenRatioPeteWintermute.htm

Because we are asked to ponder on God's creation in al-quran, and we are told that God's signs are present in the horizons and within us, we should also make the "Fibonacci Numbers" and "Golden Ratio" our new gods and start worshipping them too in addition to 19. hail

truthseeker11

Peace nimnimak,

My comment was directed towards those who do worship it and make it a partner with God and abrogate God's verses with it.

4142 No falsehood could enter it, presently or afterwards; a revelation from a Most Wise, Praiseworthy.

159 Indeed it is We who have sent down the Reminder, and indeed it is We who will preserve it.

nimnimak_11

Peace nimnimak,

My comment was directed towards those who do worship it and make it a partner with God and abrogate God's verses with it.

4142 No falsehood could enter it, presently or afterwards; a revelation from a Most Wise, Praiseworthy.

159 Indeed it is We who have sent down the Reminder, and indeed it is We who will preserve it.

Peace Truthseeker

I apologise to you for assuming that you directed your comment at anyone who accepts 19 as a pattern in the Quran.

I am not 100% sure but at this stage i do think that the last two verses of chapter 9 were additions or were not meant to be there. i think that the meaning of God preserving the scripture varies with the method of how God preserves the scripture. One of those ways that God has preserved the scripture I believe at the moment is via 19.

The way i currently see it

The missing basmallah in chap9 could imply that something about it is different. Just as the 2 basmallahs in chap 27 imply something about it is slightly different or significant.

so i think 2 bismallahs have been deliberately used in 27 to compensate for the missing one in 9 so that the 114 count remains correct. The new question which arises is why would the 114 count be kept??

after taking into account code 19 the first question about why the 114 count is kept is answered.

another question that occures to me is why this should be done when each chapter could have been given a bismallah each just like the others.

BUT 19 does not answer the second question unless we CONCLUDE or DECIDE or maybe ASSUME after looking at it's effects that the taking out of the last 2 verses of chap9 COULD be the answer to the second question

But i find the effects very interesting such as the frequency of the word Allah and other things fitting with 19 to the extent that i would call it not a coincidence. This thus also answers why chap9 has a missing bismalla.

Bear in mind that these are not random surahs in chapter 9. They are the LAST TWO which make such a difference.

We could all be totally wrong though -) but I would always like to be closer to the truth and at the moment this appears to be it.

Bahman

I found ZERO evidence of the so called code 19 from al-quran. Believe me, I wanted to find the so called code 19 in al-quran,

rotfl

truthseeker11

Peace everyone,

The above remark by Bahman shows ignorance of what code 19 implies. By zero evidence I mean evidence showing occurrence of code 19 more than the random statistical probability of 119 using a constant methodology. Ayman is right that the 19'ers hide their failed attempts which would bring the occurrence of code 19 to the 119 implied by statistical probability.

As far as last 2 verses of chapter 9 are concerned, if they were an addition to al-quran then 4142 is falsified and al-quran cannot be the word of God

4142 No falsehood could enter it, presently or afterwards; a revelation from a Most Wise, Praiseworthy.

I have faith in al-quran and I don't take code 19 as God's partner, so I have 100 % faith that no one was able to inject false verses in it despite their attempts.

phoenix1

Lobster,

I don't think 2130 and 5147 are metaphorical because I think the easiest way to understand them is to understand them to be about the Big Bang and the expansion of the universe respectively. I think the idea that the reading has many, many metaphorical verses is off-putting and untenable.

I hope the accident you were in wasn't serious and I'm glad you have a positive attitude about it.

Peace Supernaut,
I don't think it is off-putting at all. I guess we're two different people, then.
I just think that the knowledge of the big bang doesn't help us in anyway in our daily life. But it could very well be talking about it. If it is, then we have to assume that this was common knowledge for the people back then. Not God trying to prove that he exists.

And my accident wasn't serious. My car got totalled but I was fine, except for some serious carpet burn on my right arm from the airbag/seatbelt.

nimnimak_11

Salaam Nimnimak,

If, constantly promoting the 19credo, carrying the 19avatar, and referring to the person who discovered the 19 code as 'the Messenger', and above all campaigning to remove 2 ayat from the Quran because they don't fit the 19 pattern, making code 19 a driving force is not about being a sect ?

There is a purpose in every sign of God hail

Peace Sister Farida and God bless you

To be honest there have been times where i thought Bro Edip has been taking 19 too far specially after hearing the date of the debate 19th of OCT.

Upon reading the date i smiled thinking that's so predictable of Bro Edip. But upon reading about his reasons in which one stood out for me in this thread i realised in this case my assumtion was clearly wrong and it even lead me to think that this arranged date is POSSIBLY God's intervention or will with respect to how one of Edip's reasons unfolded. I'm not saying i believe that this is 100% God's intervention but i'm just viewing it as a possiblity.

As for his avatar i don't think that to have a 19 based avatar is an implication of follwing a sort of 19er sect. I think that in this case both bros Ayman and Edip have made their avatars something that they have great interest in. This though in my mind does not make it a sect Sister Farida.

If Bro Edip in his daily life was someone who thought for example

(Edip looks at his watch and thinks)
The time is now 1919 thus something special must happen. Then i would agree with you completely Sister for he has no solid reason to have such a style of thinking and that this style is wrong with respect to the reasoning and intellect given to him by his creator. Thus possibly it can be classified as shirk.

To be honest i gave that story because something similar happened to me ;D it was as if i was being tested. I looked at my watch at night and it was 1919 and i though that this means that something good is going to happen. laugh

But i realised i was wrong and that I was thinking contrary to the style of thinking or reasoning that my creator had blessed me with.

peace peace

Samia

so i think 2 bismallahs have been deliberately used in 27 to compensate for the missing one in 9 so that the 114 count remains correct. The new question which arises is why would the 114 count be kept??

Salaam nimnimak_11
(what does the 11 in your name stand for BTW? I often look at my watch and there's an eleven minutes or hour. As I started this post, it was 1100).

Back to my post. The bismillah you call (a compensation to complete the count of 114) is actually completely different from the other 113 bismillahs. The 113 ones introduce God's speech, and the "compensator" introduces a human speech. So you cannot equate them and add oranges to apples.

ayman

Peace Bahman,

Please stay away from mocking and joking and show me a complete chapter with real meaning of your verses with real meaning and equal Rhymed style as GR to be approved by Edip and others know Arabic.

Edip and you claim that the initials don't have real meaning and they are just added to complete the code. So if according to you, the god can add meaningless gibberish to complete the code then why can't I do the same and make a more impressive code than yours?

Peace,

Ayman

anthonywallace

Peace Anthony,

Unfortunately, many 19ers falsely quote this "over it is 19" part in isolation to imply that "over it is 19" refers to the great reading and a bunch of other things (the golden ratio, etc...). They take advantage of naive English speakers who will not verify the information and look in the original text to see that in Arabic there is no gender neutral "it" and the passage actually has "3alayha" which literally means "over her" and the Arabic word "quran" is masculine while "saqar"/scorcherer/fire is feminine. So "over it" is actually refering to nothing but the hellfire.

Peace,

Ayman

Yea, thats what I thought. And thanks for pointen out the other info. I do not find were quran says over the quran is 19. But, to my understanding is over the scorcher is 19.

peace