Oral Debate between Ayman and Edip...
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Peace Farida,
Normally I would ignore your antics but the last line of your outburst was too funny.
http//i33.tinypic.com/ilzs7s.jpgD 6 6 6 VS 1 0 9 angel
Bahman, you are the resident Free-Minds expert on finding hidden codes in the post and reply numbers. What do you think? )
Peace. Ayman
You should know by now that 666
is not Satan .
Spreading wrong information knowingly is work of Satan which controls money and corruption and hope you are not one of them. )
Frida is telling the truth about your misleading the readers by redirecting topics and responding with many zig zag running like Zebra running from Lion.You do not have to be expert or holding PHD putting numbers next to each other and find if is divisible by 19.
But designing it is another thing that I have asked for a decay and no body could do it other way iwas not here ).
But your 3 specific posts in the in different topic ( needs time to find those. I should make a collection) mocking God?s Miracle number date and time have been divisible of 19 could not be coincident .
Farida In 666th post explaining same experience I and others have had with you and then you mock 666 and 19 .
and
Is this coincidence
Hr Min Sec Day Month Year
19125003102008=
19x01006579110632=
19x0052977847928
7431 )
Peace
PS I see 3 19 = 57 Q as you accepted existence of 19 in that chapter and another 2 which are n same group. I can not remeber do you ? -
Salaam nimnimak_11
(what does the 11 in your name stand for BTW? I often look at my watch and there's an eleven minutes or hour. As I started this post, it was 1100).Back to my post. The bismillah you call (a compensation to complete the count of 114) is actually completely different from the other 113 bismillahs. The 113 ones introduce God's speech, and the "compensator" introduces a human speech. So you cannot equate them and add oranges to apples.
;D bravo
Peace Sister
Seeing as you started this thread at 1100 and the number in my ID is 11 o o that must mean hmm ! ! That I must contribute plenty in this thread yay
Jokes aside, that number is just a random pick with no significance other then the fact that i use it as my ID in a couple of sites the first of which did not exept nimnimak so i had to tag it with _11 for it to be expetable.
Back to the topic,
I completely agree that the 2nd bismallah is different to all the the others used as is clear in the quran. But also clear is that chap 9 is missing a bismallah which is the oddest thing IMO in the Quran. What i equate in this case, is the frequency of the phrase bismallah and not it's context Sister.
We could say that in chap 27 the second bismallah is a coincidence but i don't think we can say that the missing bismallah in chap 9 is a coincidence.
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Peace Nimnimak,
But also clear is that chap 9 is missing a bismallah which is the oddest thing IMO in the Quran.
How do you know it is missing a "bismallah"? Do you think that the decorations on the top of the page where chapters start were inspired by the god? Do you think that the names on top of the chapters were inspired by the god?
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Bahman,
I asked you just produce one like those even defected, broken, cheap, no value . no interlock ?.. do not worry just produce one like that.
Bahman, why did you choose this particular method and not any of the methods that I presented or the many more possible methods? Please be honest. You tried other methods and only this one gave you a 19 divisible, didn't you?
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Bahman,
You missed this part )
"then I checked this site
http//www.openburhan.com/
found extra alief"in this one a short Alief after Jeem given A to it . I wonder if it makes any different in meaning showing Alie or not.
Openbrhan is wrong and it misspells many words in the great reading. There is no Alif. In fact, you have to be careful with Openburhan because it is notorious for adding Alifs when they don?t exist in the actual text. This is due to a property called Matres Lectionis, which by itself demolishes Code 19. So your Code 7 based on 635 is in fact completely wrong and this shows that your ?interlock? or whatever means nothing.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Nimnimak,
How do you know it is missing a "bismallah"? Do you think that the decorations on the top of the page where chapters start were inspired by the god? Do you think that the names on top of the chapters were inspired by the god?
Peace,
Ayman
Peace Brother Ayman
By decorations do you mean the bismallahs? If yes then i do believe that it was God's will that they are there. This is my conclusion based on the fact that every Quran i have seen or read to the best of my memory have always had it's chapters begin with bismallah including (I think) the very old versions such as the Tashkent.
I don't know about the titles because i never thought about the titles to be honest and dont know wether they are in older versions of the scriptures such as Tashkent.
As is clear, i am mostly assuming as i did not consider this to be a serious issue to investigate to be honest. In this style of thought could we not also say that we need to investigate every word of the Quran?
The question for me is HOW?? and how do we judge?
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Peace Nimnimak,
By decorations do you mean the bismallahs? If yes then i do believe that it was God's will that they are there. This is my conclusion based on the fact that every Quran i have seen or read to the best of my memory have always had it's chapters begin with bismallah including (I think) the very old versions such as the Tashkent.
I don't know about the titles because i never thought about the titles to be honest and dont know wether they are in older versions of the scriptures such as Tashkent.
As is clear, i am mostly assuming as i did not consider this to be a serious issue to investigate to be honest. In this style of thought could we not also say that we need to investigate every word of the Quran?No the Bismallahs are not decorations. They are words that are read as part of the great reading. Decorations are just Arabesque style geometric patterns at the beginning of each chapter. So now that I clarified let me repeat my questions
- Do you believe that those geometric patterns were inspired by the god?
- Do you believe that the Chapter titles were inspired by the god?
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Bahman,
Openbrhan is wrong and it misspells many words in the great reading. There is no Alif. In fact, you have to be careful with Openburhan because it is notorious for adding Alifs when they don?t exist in the actual text. This is due to a property called Matres Lectionis, which by itself demolishes Code 19. So your Code 7 based on 635 is in fact completely wrong and this shows that your ?interlock? or whatever means nothing.
Peace,
Ayman
I see you missed this
Without Alief61502015020220070301020170200180054080150160400970400150400240010001050801001801013012008001660304011801013060401180400140010540211056306300111303053034070540703010130541803014002065050405013035301050
multiple of 7
then I checked this site http//www.openburhan.com/
found extra alief
With Alief615020150202200703010201702001800540801501604009704001504002400100010508010018010130120080016603040118010130604011804001400105402110563063001113030530340705407030101305418030140020650504050130315301050
multiple of 7then I added chapter and verse number
635615020150202200703010201702001800540801501604009704001504002400100010508010018010130120080016603040118010130604011804001400105402110563063001113030530340705407030101305418030140020650504050130315301050
multiple of 7
I consider this support for my attempt and search for code 7 in GR.
http//y19.net/q7.html
Peace. -
Brother Ayman
At this stage i purely assume so yes with respect to the titles.
Still not sure what you mean by decorations. If you mean the initials then yes i also assume them to be part of the Quran.As far as i think i know, the bismillahs and the initials were always there. The titles im not sure.
Do you have reason for me to think otherwise? ??? ???
I have to go it's 518 in the UK and i think i should sleep D
But i'll hopefully come back some time tomorow
For now,
Peace and God bless always
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Peace Bahman,
Bahman, why did you choose this particular method and not any of the methods that I presented or the many more possible methods? Please be honest. You tried other methods and only this one gave you a 19 divisible, didn't you?
Peace,
Ayman
Peace )
http//www.comm.utoronto.ca/~frank/hexagon/hex.gif )That is not my finding part of that is here and rest was published in a site i can not remebr but no matter how many trail they did we have an interlocked texula numerical protecting whole chapter.
Like that Magic hexoagon is resul of 40 yeras trail but is there and nothing can be done to destroy it. samething with chapter "The Key" )
peace -
Peace Bahman,
That is not my finding
Then I suggest that you hold your judgment until you find out who discovered this Code and ask them the same question that I asked you. If they answer that they got this on the first trial then I would recommend that you don't trust them because you and I know that they would be lying.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Nimnimak,
At this stage i purely assume so yes with respect to the titles.
Why do you assume that the titles were inspired by the god?
Still not sure what you mean by decorations. If you mean the initials then yes i also assume them to be part of the Quran.
No I am not talking about initials or words. I am talking about geometric decorations. Are you saying that you never saw the decorations in a typical printed copy of the quran? Here is scanned page where I higlighted the title of the chapter and the decorations found at the beginning of each chapter with red circles
http//i38.tinypic.com/detxsz.jpg
So again, are the parts highlighted with red circles (the decorations and the chapter title) inspired by the god?
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Bahman,
Then I suggest that you hold your judgment until you find out who discovered this Code and ask them the same question that I asked you. If they answer that they got this on the first trial then I would recommend that you don't trust them because you and I know that they would be lying.
Peace,
Ayman
Peace
No matter how many fails has been there . I do not care if this was found the firt trail or the millionth one. It is succeed and only succeed show such interlocking system in whole chapter no body can touch it.
I posted magic hexagon and it is self explained. 40 years of trail say 10 per dayx365x40 but resulted such interlock . Now should I deny it because took 40 years and so many trail.
That totally wrong to deny Fact because discovered by many trail. Any succeed needs trail. If we knew secret of such design and its formula then we did not have to make trail and easily solve . But it is Miracle and if solve then is not. Now you see deeply how those letter are Interlocked to their value guarded by verse number and number of letters by code 19?
Are you seeing that now. More powerful than 57Q . There is chance for manipulation but here is totally locked and sealed.
GW what has happened during 1400 years we have received copy of original and embedded such secret code for this era you as a well educated person which using 7th verse in one of your article as introduction to examine , check it out and by using your cad complaining why not your way?What bothers you if I am going in same direction you but with proof. Do you have any other kind of proof for this era small gods human. You want all your life to discuss and persuade people one by one to explain your deep understanding of messages and pudding that they can not taste due to language or Just claim that book is authored by God before open it just by 16 cases only numbers and then discuss inside.
God forgives everything unless to idolization. Code is just a tool for proof of book and existence of creator by its sign. Prior to convert believer I was thinking that those stories of Miracles happened in the past belongs to Christian as I had seen some movies.
I was laughing and saying I was not there to see , then later I found almost those miracles are authored in GR too.
Now I could deny it when I see the book is proofed, As a believer that think GR is for this era to the end.
God wants to remind us and show us the Miracle are revealed according to knowledge and understanding of human , when one is old then new one is revealed.
Moses and Magic
Jesus and Medication
Mohammed and Book
Rashad and computer
Next may we find her or him in future science recorded in GR .
Where in book I do not know but should be there.
Still nobody has come with my question?
Tired and need sleep Good night
Peace. -
Peace Bahman,
No matter how many fails has been there . I do not care if this was found the firt trail or the millionth one.
But you should care. First of all if he tells you that he found it on the first trial when he obviously used an arbitrary method then you and I know that he would be a liar. Why would you trust a liar?
If he found it after the expected number of trials of finding 19 divisibles in a random sample (19 trials) then this so-called code is in fact a natural random occurence.
If he found it after a million trials as you say then there is absolutely no Code 19 in the great reading.
You have to start without preconceptions. The question is IS THERE A CODE OR NOT. The question is not HOW CAN I FIND A CODE.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Bahman,
What bothers you if I am going in same direction you but with proof. Do you have any other kind of proof for this era small gods human.
Yes I do. I have real proof.
We should all go in the direction of the truth not in the direction of delusional numerology of hiding failures and sharing successes.
Peace and good night my friend,
Ayman
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in this one a short Alief after Jeem given A to it . I wonder if it makes any different in meaning showing Alie or not.
Salaam Bahman
Is the "numerical value" of the short alif the same as that of a clear alif? Is the numerical value of a "dhamma, kasra, fat7a or any other short vowel" the same as that of the corresponding letter? Do you count two letters for a shadda (which it realy is)?
As for the meaning, it's the same; but I do not think you are concerend with the meaning together with the topography; otherwise you would not count 114 bismillahs (see my post above to Nimnimak).
Peace
You missed this part )
"then I checked this site
http//www.openburhan.com/
found extra alief"If this is the reference you use for your calculations, then please check 2247 and 769 for the word (basTa ample increase) and you will see that it is written with a "Seen" in both verses. This will change the numbers of Seens and Saads in all the calculations.
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Peace Ayman and others rejecting all numerology in Quran,
I'm a person who believes in the Quran and I believe some of the numerology is actually very impressive. I would like to provide the most fascinating example that I know and question your reasons for rejecting it.
What do you think about the calculations under the heading "Mathematical Design of the Basmalah" over here http//www.submission.org/beyond.html. Can you be objective, think honestly and then decide?
I think that's a very very deliberate pattern. You take those different numbers that represent the same words, put them between the sequence numbers, and the concatenated long number becomes divisible by 19. This is very much beyond 1/19. It's not just a combination of some events having a very low probability (which would be easy to reject), it's a combination of very highly coupled events happening at the same time. It's a deliberate pattern being satisfied over and over. It's also exhaustive to a degree. Do you think this is just a coincidence? Now you may say, some facts towards the end seem arbitrary. If this makes you deny the deliberate pattern through facts 2-9, do you think you are being honest? Is this not a consistent rule being applied over and over, generating the same pattern? Does it matter how many trials it took for the person who discovered this?
You made a point against numerology in Quran by pointing out the messengership claim of RK. If there was a deliberate pattern in Quran, (hypothetically) one that you accepted, would it matter who found it? Would it matter that the person that initiated this not only said that he was a messenger, but actually did all kinds of terrible acts? Would the identity of the person who discovered something that you (hypothetically) accepted be any reason to reject it? Would it be any different than a homophobe not using computers because Alan Turing was gay?
Similarly, would your attitude against numerology in Quran be any different if acknowledging some of it might lead to rejecting two verses? I believe a lot of people look at RK's identity, and rejection of two verses, and then decide that they won't see any pattern, rather than looking at the pattern objectively and then decide.
Also, are some bad examples of numerology making you discard other good ones? Do you need to reject everything numerological in Quran because you need to reject the bad ones?
Would gematrical values not being used at the time of Quran's revelation change anything? Would gematrical value system being derived from Hebrew letters change anything? Is God not able to create a system back then that uses something that happens in the future? Does the information have to be available at that time on earth, for God to be able to use it? Does God not have full control over what happens on earth?
If we stretch this question, does the Quran we are supposed to be using have to be exactly the same as the one that first got scribed? Is God not powerful enough to control how it changes? Is God not capable of authenticating the one we end up receiving with some code?
Re Lobster
Would aliens be able to control the temporal properties of the discovery? (1974, 19x74=1406)Sorry for the long post, I hope you don't get stuck on some points and ignore others that I made.
Regards.
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Salaam Bahman
Is the "numerical value" of the short alif the same as that of a clear alif? Is the numerical value of a "dhamma, kasra, fat7a or any other short vowel" the same as that of the corresponding letter? Do you count two letters for a shadda (which it realy is)?
Salam Samia
I am not expert in this srea and let it with you and other friends. I have asked for help here and appreciate anybody can assist.As for the meaning, it's the same; but I do not think you are concerend with the meaning together with the topography; otherwise you would not count 114 bismillahs (see my post above to Nimnimak).
If the meaning is same then i think code 19 tool assit us to fix it in he way that code accept to remove any change in case is happened.
If this is the reference you use for your calculations, then please check 2247 and 769 for the word (basTa ample increase) and you will see that it is written with a "Seen" in both verses. This will change the numbers of Seens and Saads in all the calculations.
submission'org is using Seen too and should be seen this word is very common in farsi with same meaninig and we use Seen. I remeber this word had been pondered many times.
Peace. -
But you should care. First of all if he tells you that he found it on the first trial when he obviously used an arbitrary method then you and I know that he would be a liar. Why would you trust a liar?
If he found it after the expected number of trials of finding 19 divisibles in a random sample (19 trials) then this so-called code is in fact a natural random occurence.
If he found it after a million trials as you say then there is absolutely no Code 19 in the great reading.
You have to start without preconceptions. The question is IS THERE A CODE OR NOT. The question is not HOW CAN I FIND A CODE.
Peace,
Ayman
But you should care. First of all if he tells you that he found it on the first trial when he obviously used an arbitrary method then you and I know that he would be a liar. Why would you trust a liar?
Peace
Who is he. Rashad wrote that in his translation footnote and did not mentioned how he found it first or last trail. What makes different when you drive your who and how many times trail for each portion of it has preformed. Should we refuse car because is done by many trails?
I respect all prophet and messengers but doe it make difference if GR was scribed by Mohammed or any body else. Does it change the fact and truth and context of GR. Are you believing in it because name of Mohammed is as scriber.
For months after my conversion I did not know who discovered it and even I did not know that Rashad was assassinated.
Should I measure my belief in presence of any fact according to times of trail to discover it ?Rashad is dead, he never wrote how many time he tried but Hati is alive and if reading this please tell us how many time you tried to find whole chapter reverses is multiple of 19.
Here dear Edip is criticizing my opinion when I said these numerical pattern in GR is like Jig saw puzzle when there is no formula. Many pieces and only way is trail and error.
Some people can put pieces together faster and better than others regardless their academic knowledge.
How easily you van accuse others liars when they never claimed they discovered their finding with first trail.
I search for founder and here claims it is Rashad?s
http//www.message-of-god.com/Eng%20Miracle_002.htm
Chapter number (1), total number of Verses (7), Verse number (1), number of letters (19), gematrical value of every letter 2 F 60 w 40? 1 C 30 ? 30 ? 30 ? 5 C 1 ? 30p 200 d 8 ? 400 500 10 30 200 8 10 40 ..2.. 17. 1 30 8 40 4 30 30 5 200 2 1 30 70 30 40 10 50 ..3.. 12.. 1 30 200 8 40 50 1 30 200 8 10 40 ..4.. 11.. 40 30 20 10 6 40 1 30 4 10 50 ..5.. 19. 1 20 1 20 50 70 2 4 6 1 10 1 20 50 60 400 70 10 50 ...6... 18.. 1 5 4 50 1 1 30 90 200 9 1 30 40 60 400 100 10 40 ...7.. 43.. 90 200 9 1 30 700 10 50 1 50 70 40 400 70 30 10 5 40 1000 10 200 1 30 40 1000 800 6 2 7 30 10 5 40 6 30 1 1 30 800 1 30 10 50 19
Dr. Khalifa used to publish a news letter named "Submitters Perspective" at his Moque in Tucson Arizona. In one of the issues he printed this awesome mathematical miracle and he called it "Earth Shattering" mathematical miracle. Two hours after he mailed the news letters to subscribers, the resent famous earth quake of San Francisco occurred ! If you refer to news media at that time, you will notice that most of the numbers refered to this incidents were divisible by number 19.
I found a mistake in my presentation . 139 which is number of letters has been added by mistake at the end.If he found it after the expected number of trials of finding 19 divisibles in a random sample (19 trials) then this so-called code is in fact a natural random occurence.
Peace,
You with your knowledge and tools available find out probability for such pattern. Can you do with computer or like Jg saw puzzle there is no way to find probability.
How a 19 cycle can work with a locked, sealed,interlocked, engaged solidly, only position ?
Any change in any part of pattern would destroy the linked, interconnected, interlocked, sealed, secured, protected, letters of messages .
Can you understand?
It is like Magic Hexagon . there is no 19 cycle, it is random numbers, each number has its own location which can not be replaced, relocate, change, add, deduct, erase,????same with those numbers which are GV if each letter.
Can You understand?You have to start without preconceptions. The question is IS THERE A CODE OR NOT. The question is not HOW CAN I FIND A CODE.
Peace,Ayman
I never said and I do not know and I said I DO NOT CARE . But did you understand above then find out for such case how many trail can be done.
Took me 5 minutes to find how many trail can be done with this case.
Chapter number can have only 2 position. Start and end of whole chapter 2 trails
Number of verses in chapter can have only 2 position. Start and end of whole chapter 2 trails
Verse numbers can have 2 position start or end 2 trails
Number of letters in each verse can have 2 positions start or end 2 trails
Total of 8 trails and personally to put Chapter number at end ( if function is questionable) so seven trails.
Can you understand?
You have to start without preconceptions. The question is IS THERE A CODE OR NOT. The question is not HOW CAN I FIND A CODE.
You are known well and specially for your claim for your scorching moon which took me to your article for Mecca.
You may be interested how your opinion was discussed 7 years ago Yahoo Islam forums. You would see familiar names like Layth and others with different id. Mine is ?beccanotmecca? ?exathiest?
This forum not moderated for long time and as usual ?..
http//groups.yahoo.com/group/beccanotmecca/message/1
but back to your question code 19 now is all over life aspect and every day we find more and more.
I recommend you read Dr.Plichta?s book God?s Secret Formula and find how many he talks abou existence of code 19 in different field of science.
This one is an example as you like moon;
http//y19.net/meton%20year.htm
If these discussion be shorter then I can add some more information here
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9596951.msg175312#msg175312
Peace.