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  4. Who is one of - Al-kitaab?

Who is one of - Al-kitaab?

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  • M Offline
    M Offline
    Muslimtruthrevealed
    wrote on last edited by
    #31

    Assalaam Alaikum @Samia

    You have NOT shown or illustrated any mistakes in what I have conveyed thus far. In fact I was in error regarding this statement

    "Tafseela / Tafseelan is a Verbal Noun / Masdar, period and is the OBJECT in the Accusative Case in Sura 17.12 'fassalanahu tafseelan' & Sura 1037 'tafseela al-kitabi'"

    Actually, 'tafseela al-kitabi' in Sura 1037 is in the Genitive NOT the Accusative. 'Al Kitabi' is a Definite Noun, thus the verbal noun 'Tafseel' becomes a definite noun.

    Assalaam Alaikum @Samia

    Your statement Samia..."These are other mistakes from one of your "copy and paste" posts yesterday"

    and you asserted that the following were in error

    Inna sanulqee AAalayka qawlan thaqeelan

    qawlan (tanwin-fatha, plural, feminine)

    @Samia the ayah

    Samia as you can see has a tanwiin fatha, which makes the word indefinite, plural and feminine.

    But Samia, for some reason in the Free Minds "Translation of the Glorious Qur`an" in the Arabic of Sura 73 Muzammil ayah / verse 5 http//free-minds.org/quran/PM/73/5 the tanwiin fatha's are MISSING!

    In fact the tanwiin fatha's are missing on BOTH "qawlan thaqeelan" in the Arabic!

    Confirmation Reference Grammatical Analysis of the Holy Quran (Arabic) by Grand Mufti of Egypt, Prof. Dr. Muhammed Sayed Tantawi Reviewed by Mohammed Fahim Abou 'Oubayya (page 773 Surah Al Muzzamil ayah 5)


    @Samia again you made another assertion that the word 'muzammil' is NOT a Verb Form VII. You gave no illustration or reference as to why you made that observation.

    'Muzzammil (Active Participle, masculine, singular, Verb Form = VIII reflexive, declarant'

    I will illustrate the morphology by showing you how to decompose the word from its root 'Zamala' to Verb Form VIII 'Iz'milu / Uz'milu' (other derivatives) and the Active Participle 'Muzzamil'

    To derive the Verb Form VIII to the root word 'Zamala' (to bear something) you have to understand the grammatical process of 'Assimilation'.

    The Verb Form VII 'infixes' a 'Ta' as the second radical / letter of the verb, but the 'Za' is a consonant that 'assimilates' the infixed 'Ta' and thus 'Zamala' decomposed to its FINAL verb form EIGHT would be 'Iz'milu / Uz'milu' and various other Verb Form VIII derivatives. (prefixed by alif-hamza with / without 'sukoon over the 'Za', dammah, kesra, fatha, shaddah, etc.)

    Confirming References 'Language of the Holy Quran' by Nadwi page 253 - 254 (Assimilation Process / Rules of Assimilation)
    Lanes Lexicon Part 3 page 1252 - 1253 (Verb Form VIII derivatives)

    *Deriving the active particle 'Muzzammil' is rather simple process


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    • S Offline
      S Offline
      Samia
      wrote on last edited by
      #32

      Salaam MTR

      Although the grammaticl function of a word has no effect on its meaning, and there was no need for you to make a grammatical analysis, but I am sorry I can not allow an error to be posted if I know it is an error and that I can correct it. I am sorry this will take us off topic.
      First of all, the meaning of "tafseelan" in "fassalnahu tafseelan", does not change by the way it is used in verse 1037 (wa tafseela alkitaab), but their grammatical analysis is completely different, and you got both of them wrong
      fassalnahu tafseela tafseela is an absolute accusative used for emphasis. It's in the accusative, evidently!! (mansoob).
      tafseela alkitaab (I wonder how you say it is in the genetive and write it in the accusative!) predicate of the verb (kaana, in the beginning of the verse), in the accusative.

      In this sentence, the only plural is the first pronoun (inna) and the verb conjugated to the plural, first person. And nothing is feminine.

      In fact the tanwiin fatha's are missing on BOTH "qawlan thaqeelan" in the Arabic!

      They are not missing. The two "alifs" show they are there!

      'Muzzammil (Active Participle, masculine, singular, Verb Form = VIII reflexive, declarant'

      This is form V. Please study your verb forms here

      http//en.wiktionary.org/wiki/AppendixArabic_verb_forms

      And please, no grammatical analysis if they do not serve anything!

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      • M Offline
        M Offline
        Muslimtruthrevealed
        wrote on last edited by
        #33

        Assalaam Alaikum @Samia....

        Obviously there is a disconnect here...your concurring (agreement) with (some of) the same points I have stated in the beginning of this thread!

        In regards to the missing tanwiins in the Free Minds Arabic....lets try this again...

        Help me out here Samia Do you see any tanwiin? Do you know what a tanwiin looks like?

        http//free-minds.org/quran/PM/73/5

        Now look at Arabic from this site http//www.islamicity.com/QuranSearch/

        What do you see different?

        In addition there are a number of vowels MISSING from the Free Minds Arabic!!!

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        • S Offline
          S Offline
          Samia
          wrote on last edited by
          #34

          Salaam MTR

          The ACCUSATIVE tanween is not just the two short lines that look like two fat7as but ALSO the alif that carries them. It's the only tashkeel that's evident even when the whole text does not carry any tashkeel. And because of this alif which is not an original part of the word but serves as a seat for this accusative tanween, we cannot say the tanween is not there. This is different from the genetive and nominative tanween.

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          • M Offline
            M Offline
            Muslimtruthrevealed
            wrote on last edited by
            #35

            Salaam MTR

            The ACCUSATIVE tanween is not just the two short lines that look lie two fat7as but ALSO the alif that carries them. It's the only tashkeel that's evident even when the whole text does not carry any tashkeel. And because of this alif which is not an original part of the word but serves as a seat for this accusative tanween, we cannot say the tanween is not there. This is different from the genetive and nominative tanween.

            What?

            Excuse me, whoever or where ever you found that answer, It doesnt make any sense. You cant determine Accusative Case without determining subject & object (one fatha other dammah generally).

            The tanwiin influences those determinatives in Sura Muzzamil 735.

            Besides (As VERBS) qawla and thaqeela have to be 3rd person singular in an accusative case. With tanwiin, they are NOT 3rd person singular they are VERBAL Nouns.

            The ONLY way that can be done with Sura 735 is to MODIFY the Arabic, and erase the tanwiin!

            Inna sanulqee AAalayka qawlan thaqeelan

            sanulqee AAalayka

            Sanulqee is in 1st person, plural, Verb Form IV meaning 'we send or bestow' now, present tense
            AAalayka 2nd person, singular meaning upon YOU, now, present tense

            qawlan is a verbal noun (meaning Command, Word) Samia and the tanwiin completes the accusative case by the verbal noun 'qawlan'.

            The preceding verb(s) 'sanulqee alayka' govern the 'subject' of the accusative case which is the noun...qawlan


            Samia If we follow YOUR Arabic translation in modern arabic, we find that the ayah loses its relevance and context.

            Thus without the tanwiin, qawlan and thaqeelan become qawla and thaqeela as verbs in the accusative and are '3rd person, masculine, singular'. Neither qawla nor thaqeela WITHOUT the tanwiin are verbal nouns!

            Thus you lose the accusative case in the ayah and the nominative case between qawlan and thaqeelan (thaqeel becomes active participle)


            Allah does NOT bestow a message in past tense during the PRESENT

            Unbelievable.....

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            • M Offline
              M Offline
              mmkhan
              wrote on last edited by
              #36

              Salaaman all,

              Please check if it is of any help to anyone to understand more?

              http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=10045.0

              Regards,
              mmKhan

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              • M Offline
                M Offline
                Muslimtruthrevealed
                wrote on last edited by
                #37

                Salaaman all,

                Please check if it is of any help to anyone to understand more?

                http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=10045.0

                Regards,
                mmKhan

                Assalaam Alaikum @mmkhan

                Thank You, The issue of Al Kitab has been addressed and its relevance, attributes and influence seems to be open for debate and 'modification' too.

                I would certainly welcome another 'set' of eyes on the topic.

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                • M Offline
                  M Offline
                  Muslimtruthrevealed
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #38

                  Assalaam Alaikum Samia

                  Sura 73 Muzzamil Ayah 5

                  By the way its a verbal sentence, the ayah begins with a verb. A Verbal Sentence requires a Subject and Object. If you erase the tanwiins, you have no objects of the verb, the Verbal Nouns qawlan & thaqeelan.

                  Oh and of course you lose your Nominative Case construct which requires BOTH nouns of equal number and gender.

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                  • S Offline
                    S Offline
                    Samia
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #39

                    Salaam MTR

                    When one reads the above sentence, one would immediately know it is in the accusative tanween, thanks to the alifs . However, if it were

                    Then you would not know whether it is or but will never wonder if it were

                    This is the last time I discuss this issue with you. Others are free to trust your grammtical analysis.

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                    • M Offline
                      M Offline
                      Muslimtruthrevealed
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #40

                      Sura Al Araf 7162

                      Sura Al Baqarah 259

                      Sura Al Kahf 1893

                      Sura Ta Ha 2089

                      Sura Ta Ha 2044

                      Is it Qila, Qula or Qawlan?


                      The point, is you cant 'translate' the Quran in 'Standard Modern Arabic' and suggest that the context and relevance of the Quran remains. Its no different from translating the Quran in any other language, you lose case, constructs, verbal forms, tense, number, gender, etc.

                      I trust in Allah,swt.

                      Kind words and the covering of faults are better than charity / sadaqatin followed by injury. Allah is free of all wants, and He is Most-Forbearing.

                      Sadaqa meaning sincerity, truthfulness, hold others as trustworthy, one who confirms the truth

                      O you who believe! cancel not your charity by reminders of your generosity or by injury,- like those who spend their substance to be seen of men, but believe neither in Allah nor in the Last Day. They are in parable like a hard, barren rock, on which is a little soil. on it falls heavy rain, which leaves it (Just) a bare stone. They will be able to do nothing with aught they have earned. And Allah guideth not those who reject faith.

                      And the likeness of those who spend their substance, seeking to please Allah and to strengthen their souls, is as a garden, high and fertile. heavy rain falls on it but makes it yield a double increase of harvest, and if it receives not Heavy rain, light moisture sufficeth it. Allah seeth well whatever you do.

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