Oral Debate between Ayman and Edip...
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Peace Ayman,
Yes the effect of the test can be to purify but the effect doesn't change the meaning from "test" to "purify". The basic meaning is still to test.
To test for example a purity of somethign through a certain method, so the concept still counts.
The burden of proof is on those who want to prove a positive, the presence of a code. So amateur claims trying to prove a negative are irrelevant anyway. I told Code 19 hunters how they can easily prove the existence of the code. They simply have to document all their trials and share both the successful and failed trials and then we can see the ratio. This is all. It is not rocket science. All it requires is intellectual honesty. Unfortunately, NONE of them came forward.
Agreed, the burden of the proof is always on the claimants. And i am also very dissapointed in the way they handle critism and adopting scientific methods in their research. I hope this improves in the future.
Exactly. I couldn't have put it any better. So now knowing this, you should know what the test is about. 7431 is about the people not about the great reading.
I agree this is one of the meanings of the verse, but I am not convinced this is the exclusive meaning of the verse.
On the other hand, I would not mind you being in the middle of the debate. Perhaps, you could be the moderator for the debate if this is something that you would be interested in.
I had thought of this also when Edip first posted the announcement of the debate, I will see if I can join or moderate it. But if i cannot, it is still important to have a moderator.
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The 'religion' has been corrupted due to wrong approaches, not by the text itself. As for certain outcomes of 19 that could be reliable, the debate must be between scientists to review a logical and rational result wherein all results and ideas are reflected. I think WE, you and me shouldn't do anything. These matters should be for specialists, not for people who aren't qualified for this.
It is like a cow, the farmer is only interested in getting the best milk, meat and leather out of the animal. Only a scientist is interested in the DNA, and is the only one qualified to research it because of his/her training. Because we know the DNA of the cow, doesn't make the cow more or less cow, it remains as it is. I believe the same counts for the Qur'an. Sadly we had to many mad scientists with Wikipedia knowledge screwing around.
Peace Arnold.
That is not new, in older time and even now in Mohammedans territories are not allowed to interpret and understand GR without a Middle man called scholar, clergy, sheikh, imam, and highest position Ayatollah as Specialist. )
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=15142.msg142845#msg142845
Then
Who are does scientist?
Who proves their qualification?
Why you are encouraging such path for people to understand messages by specialist when you agreeSadly we had to many mad scientists with Wikipedia knowledge screwing around
And the God clearly authored these messages
The Most Gracious.
Teacher of the Quran
551-2
We made the Quran easy to learn. Does any of you wish to learn?
5412-22-32-40
Do not move your tongue to hasten it. It is we who will collect it into Quran. Once we recite it, you shall follow such a Quran Then it is we who will explain it.
7516-19
Peace. -
For those who would like to see the hadith-sunna-based distortions made on verses of chapter 74 in opposition to 20114, please see my exposition titled Which one do you see Hell or Miracle? at
http//www.19.org/index.php?id=14,175,0,0,1,0
No wonder Ayman cannot witness Quran's great signs His eyes and mind are clouded with the smoke of Hellfiire, "Nothing but Hellfire!"
Peace,
EdipI see Hell fire in 7430
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9596963.msg180496#msg180496
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I see Hell fire in 7430
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9596963.msg180496#msg180496
Good for you.
Peace,
Edip -
Good for you.
Peace,
EdipYep, sure is good for me. All praises to God, the worlds Lord.
peace
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salam all,
easy easy dear people, 7431 talks about the guardians of the fire(hell) not 7430 it just say -Upon it is nineteen.
But when reading further the verse(7431) says that this number of the guardian(19) is make known to be a test for the rejecters and that the believers should have no doubt and be increased in faith. So well if that is a miracle or not I will left unsaid but sure there is something special about this number.Maria
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salam all,
easy easy dear people, 7431 talks about the guardians of the fire(hell) not 7430 it just say -Upon it is nineteen.
But when reading further the verse(7431) says that this number of the guardian(19) is make known to be a test for the rejecters and that the believers should have no doubt and be increased in faith. So well if that is a miracle or not I will left unsaid but sure there is something special about this number.Maria
Peace,
Either way it is from God isnt it? test or miricle. either way it would be divinly inspired right?Peace
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salam all,
easy easy dear people, 7431 talks about the guardians of the fire(hell) not 7430 it just say -Upon it is nineteen.
But when reading further the verse(7431) says that this number of the guardian(19) is make known to be a test for the rejecters and that the believers should have no doubt and be increased in faith. So well if that is a miracle or not I will left unsaid but sure there is something special about this number.Maria
Salaam sister
How is going?
Finally you are interested in code .
?believers should have no doubt and be increased in faith.?
Should believers go hell to count 19 angels to remove their doubt and increase in faith or before we leave this life.?
What you think. ?
I am exhausted and slowing down but your presence keep me here for while.
Peace. -
Peace Maria
easy easy dear people, 7431 talks about the guardians of the fire(hell) not 7430 it just say -Upon it is nineteen.
But when reading further the verse(7431) says that this number of the guardian(19) is make known to be a test for the rejecters and that the believers should have no doubt and be increased in faith. So well if that is a miracle or not I will left unsaid but sure there is something special about this number.7431 says that this number of the guardian (19) is only a test for the rejecters. Eveything else, "the believers should have no doubt and be increased in faith", etc. is a result of the whole underlined part, not a result of the number. Here is the Free-Minds translation
7431
FREE-MINDS And We have made the guardians of the Fire to be angels; and We did not make their number except as a trial for those who have rejected, so that those who were given the Scripture would understand, and those who have faith would be increased in faith, and so that those who have been given the Scripture and the believers do not have doubt, and so that those who have a sickness in their hearts and the rejecters would say ?What did God mean with an example such as this?? It is such that God misguides whom He wishes, and He guides whom He wishes. And none know your Lord?s soldiers except Him; and it is but a reminder for human beings.Cause is underlined and effect is in bold.
Peace,
Ayman
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Should believers go hell to count 19 angels to remove their doubt and increase in faith or before we leave this life.?
What you think. ?No, but the believers should not doubt that there are 19 angels who guard Hell. And whoever does, they are in denyal of the Hearafter. Code 19 has prevented you from understanding something more significant than the worldly example of 19 being over the Quran- the future of the Hearafter.
He thought and analized. Then he said " verse 9128-129 are nothin but the words of a human. Can it be that there are 19 angels guarding Hell?" Thus they do not fear the Hearafter. Untill ceratinty comes to them.
So concluding, there is no doubt with the believers that there are 19 angels who guard the Fire and it only increases the faith of the believers in God to protect His Book and so on, and since the rejecters dont believe in the Hearafter they caint understand that what is ment by the example of the angels, the fire, and their number; is only to inform you and warn you, so they will ask what is ment by the example. And they will ask about it untill they invent a lie about God.
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No, but the believers should not doubt that there are 19 angels who guard Hell. And whoever does, they are in denyal of the Hearafter. Code 19 has prevented you from understanding something more significant than the worldly example of 19 being over the Quran- the future of the Hearafter.
He thought and analized. Then he said " verse 9128-129 are nothin but the words of a human. Can it be that there are 19 angels guarding Hell?" Thus they do not fear the Hearafter. Untill ceratinty comes to them.
So concluding, there is no doubt with the believers that there are 19 angels who guard the Fire and it only increases the faith of the believers in God to protect His Book and so on, and since the rejecters dont believe in the Hearafter they caint understand that what is ment by the example of the angels, the fire, and their number; is only to inform you and warn you, so they will ask what is ment by the example. And they will ask about it untill they invent a lie about God.
And no doubt is in this particular Book.
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Peace Maria
7431 says that this number of the guardian (19) is only a test for the rejecters. Eveything else, "the believers should have no doubt and be increased in faith", etc. is a result of the whole underlined part, not a result of the number. Here is the Free-Minds translation
7431
FREE-MINDS And We have made the guardians of the Fire to be angels; and We did not make their number except as a trial for those who have rejected, so that those who were given the Scripture would understand, and those who have faith would be increased in faith, and so that those who have been given the Scripture and the believers do not have doubt, and so that those who have a sickness in their hearts and the rejecters would say ?What did God mean with an example such as this?? It is such that God misguides whom He wishes, and He guides whom He wishes. And none know your Lord?s soldiers except Him; and it is but a reminder for human beings.Cause is underlined and effect is in bold.
Peace,
Ayman
Peace.
Is this in this life or after we leave this one?
"those who have faith would be increased in faith" In the hell?
How you can icrease you faith hence you have not seen those 19 angels unless you go to HELL.
Are you in the hell now counting the angels increasing your faith ?
Peace. -
Nice peace
peace
Glory be to our God.
peace
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Peace Bahman
Is this in this life or after we leave this one? )
In this life.
"those who have faith would be increased in faith" In the hell? )
In this life.
Are you in the hell now counting the angels increasing your faith ? )
No.
How you can icrease you faith hence you have not seen those 19 angels unless you go to HELL. )
7431 is not about seeing any "angels". It is about the count of 19 being a trial/temptation for the unappreciative/disbelievers.
Can't you see that every single person who is attracted to the count of 19 is obsessed with such counting and they don't appreciate the great reading without it?
Can't you see that every person who is attracted to counting 19 disbelieves in 7431 and the clear statement in it that this count is ONLY a trial/temptation for the disbelievers? How can it be any clearer?
Can't you see those attracted to the count of 19 ignore not only the great reading but also their god-given logic and common sense and hang on to the straw of a "miracle" due to their lack of real belief in the great reading?
Are the words of the god not enough for you to believe? Why do you need a "miracle" code?
Can't you see that 7430-31 could have only come from the god since only he can possibly have such an amazing knoweldge of your innermost psyche? No computer or someone with a PhD can do that.
Without Code 19, aren't you a disbeliever in the great reading?
When you meet the god, what will you tell him? Will you tell him that you doubted and didn't believe in his words without doing some calculations first to make sure that he is not a phony? Or will you tell him that you believed in his words and as soon as you heard them you cried and your skin trembled?
We don't have much time. So what it is going to be Bahman? Are you taking the sure and straight way or the doubtful and useless way?
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace.
Is this in this life or after we leave this one? )
"those who have faith would be increased in faith" In the hell? )
How you can icrease you faith hence you have not seen those 19 angels unless you go to HELL. )
Are you in the hell now counting the angels increasing your faith ? )
Peace.The Quran said that you would ask these questions. Do you deny the ninteen angels made to guard Hell? Do you know what will happen to those who do?
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Can't you see that every single person who is attracted to the count of 19 is obsessed with such counting and they don't appreciate the great reading without it?
Just read it loud and look at the mirror Ayman. Your hundreds of posts here and there about 19 demonstrate your negative obsession with 19. You are tormented and tried by it, as it is prophecized by 7431.
Can't you see that every person who is attracted to counting 19 disbelieves in 7431 and the clear statement in it that this count is ONLY a trial/temptation for the disbelievers? How can it be any clearer?
I had in the past exposed your ONLY refuge and it seems that you have forgotten about it. God willing we will discuss it this Sunday morning, again.
Are the words of the god not enough for you to believe? Why do you need a "miracle" code?
Math is God's language in creating the universe and communicates with His intelligent and sincere servants through both words and numbers.
Can't you see that 7430-31 could have only come from the god since only he can possibly have such an amazing knoweldge of your innermost psyche? No computer or someone with a PhD can do that.
Beautiful. You indeed see occasionally.
"The lightning almost snatches away their eyesight. When it lights for them, they move forward, and when it turns dark, they stand still. If GOD wills, He* can take away their hearing and their eyesight. GOD is Omnipotent." (217)
Peace,
EDip -
Peace Bahman
In this life.
In this life.
No.
Peace Ayman
That was yesterday to day you are a beleiver. Welcome. I recommend you chose different topic now because no body accept you claim your work as DESIGN and God's work COINCIDENCE.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=16958.msg180950#msg180950
Peace.