Oral Debate between Ayman and Edip...
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Peace Maria
7431 says that this number of the guardian (19) is only a test for the rejecters. Eveything else, "the believers should have no doubt and be increased in faith", etc. is a result of the whole underlined part, not a result of the number. Here is the Free-Minds translation
7431
FREE-MINDS And We have made the guardians of the Fire to be angels; and We did not make their number except as a trial for those who have rejected, so that those who were given the Scripture would understand, and those who have faith would be increased in faith, and so that those who have been given the Scripture and the believers do not have doubt, and so that those who have a sickness in their hearts and the rejecters would say ?What did God mean with an example such as this?? It is such that God misguides whom He wishes, and He guides whom He wishes. And none know your Lord?s soldiers except Him; and it is but a reminder for human beings.Cause is underlined and effect is in bold.
Peace,
Ayman
Peace.
Is this in this life or after we leave this one?
"those who have faith would be increased in faith" In the hell?
How you can icrease you faith hence you have not seen those 19 angels unless you go to HELL.
Are you in the hell now counting the angels increasing your faith ?
Peace. -
Nice peace
peace
Glory be to our God.
peace
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Peace Bahman
Is this in this life or after we leave this one? )
In this life.
"those who have faith would be increased in faith" In the hell? )
In this life.
Are you in the hell now counting the angels increasing your faith ? )
No.
How you can icrease you faith hence you have not seen those 19 angels unless you go to HELL. )
7431 is not about seeing any "angels". It is about the count of 19 being a trial/temptation for the unappreciative/disbelievers.
Can't you see that every single person who is attracted to the count of 19 is obsessed with such counting and they don't appreciate the great reading without it?
Can't you see that every person who is attracted to counting 19 disbelieves in 7431 and the clear statement in it that this count is ONLY a trial/temptation for the disbelievers? How can it be any clearer?
Can't you see those attracted to the count of 19 ignore not only the great reading but also their god-given logic and common sense and hang on to the straw of a "miracle" due to their lack of real belief in the great reading?
Are the words of the god not enough for you to believe? Why do you need a "miracle" code?
Can't you see that 7430-31 could have only come from the god since only he can possibly have such an amazing knoweldge of your innermost psyche? No computer or someone with a PhD can do that.
Without Code 19, aren't you a disbeliever in the great reading?
When you meet the god, what will you tell him? Will you tell him that you doubted and didn't believe in his words without doing some calculations first to make sure that he is not a phony? Or will you tell him that you believed in his words and as soon as you heard them you cried and your skin trembled?
We don't have much time. So what it is going to be Bahman? Are you taking the sure and straight way or the doubtful and useless way?
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace.
Is this in this life or after we leave this one? )
"those who have faith would be increased in faith" In the hell? )
How you can icrease you faith hence you have not seen those 19 angels unless you go to HELL. )
Are you in the hell now counting the angels increasing your faith ? )
Peace.The Quran said that you would ask these questions. Do you deny the ninteen angels made to guard Hell? Do you know what will happen to those who do?
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Can't you see that every single person who is attracted to the count of 19 is obsessed with such counting and they don't appreciate the great reading without it?
Just read it loud and look at the mirror Ayman. Your hundreds of posts here and there about 19 demonstrate your negative obsession with 19. You are tormented and tried by it, as it is prophecized by 7431.
Can't you see that every person who is attracted to counting 19 disbelieves in 7431 and the clear statement in it that this count is ONLY a trial/temptation for the disbelievers? How can it be any clearer?
I had in the past exposed your ONLY refuge and it seems that you have forgotten about it. God willing we will discuss it this Sunday morning, again.
Are the words of the god not enough for you to believe? Why do you need a "miracle" code?
Math is God's language in creating the universe and communicates with His intelligent and sincere servants through both words and numbers.
Can't you see that 7430-31 could have only come from the god since only he can possibly have such an amazing knoweldge of your innermost psyche? No computer or someone with a PhD can do that.
Beautiful. You indeed see occasionally.
"The lightning almost snatches away their eyesight. When it lights for them, they move forward, and when it turns dark, they stand still. If GOD wills, He* can take away their hearing and their eyesight. GOD is Omnipotent." (217)
Peace,
EDip -
Peace Bahman
In this life.
In this life.
No.
Peace Ayman
That was yesterday to day you are a beleiver. Welcome. I recommend you chose different topic now because no body accept you claim your work as DESIGN and God's work COINCIDENCE.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=16958.msg180950#msg180950
Peace. -
7431 is not about seeing any "angels". It is about the count of 19 being a trial/temptation for the unappreciative/disbelievers.
The Quran said that you would ask these questions. Do you deny the ninteen angels made to guard Hell? Do you know what will happen to those who do?
Well said.
Peace,
Ayman
Peace Ayman
Make your mind Ayaman is there any angel or no ? -
peace
Glory be to our God.
peace
That was yesterday and Ayman needed a fake messenger like you tp support his mistake.
Now he has confessed that all those code 19 pattern are culuated and DESINED is NOt COINCIDENCE.
Brother Edip was going t open asection for Fake Messengers I hope this forum to create one and keep you poeple from spreading all these nonesense claims and junks over this forum. Then the poeple like to see you come to your section.
Dear Layth such condition is causng many members to be discouraged and leave your forum you have to find a solution for these internet youtube fake messengers
I am not here more but let others have discussion with poeple that have not lost it.
I was banned because I asked why you do not add Quran Alone to your forum and this fake messenger screams to my brother Ahmed Bidal SHUT UP and no boy of these moderators saw it or ignore it. Wonder?
Freedom has alimit too and when is abused then has to be policed . ( -
The Quran said that you would ask these questions. Do you deny the ninteen angels made to guard Hell? Do you know what will happen to those who do?
Oh I need another Glass rotfl there is aIGNORE button in left side. thank you Layth I push it now likw may others and say bye laugh
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Nice peace
Peace Dear Sister
That is your idea but this man with his claim as messenger with no proof is damaging image of GR Quran. You as moderator should be more careful taking side of afake messenger. He can not tell more than Quran and FN translation. please be careful and do not let you be branded as supporter and encourage such corruption.
Best thing is push ignore button -
ok, so is this debate happening then?
well i just tried to register at palltalk and it told me my country was invalid. anyone have similar problems? i guess i have to rely on someone to record it. has some kind being got this under control?here's the link to the room if you dont mind me posting it here http//express.paltalk.com/index.html?gid=1180111535
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Peace everyone,
I would like to thank everyone who attended the live debate earlier today. I think that both Edip and I would be interested in hearing your feedback in terms of the following
- How we can improve the process and the set up the next time around.
- If anyone changed their mind or leaning as a result of the debate.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace everyone,
I would like to thank everyone who attended the live debate earlier today. I think that both Edip and I would be interested in hearing your feedback in terms of the following
- How we can improve the process and the set up the next time around.
- If anyone changed their mind or leaning as a result of the debate.
Peace,
Ayman
Peace Ayman
I do not how many like m were interested to listen to chat but the room could not be found. May paltalk moderating rooms and takes while to be in directory.
How ever hope you or Edip has recorded and uploaded in you tube for everybody.
Peace. -
Peace everyone,
I would like to thank everyone who attended the live debate earlier today. I think that both Edip and I would be interested in hearing your feedback in terms of the following
- How we can improve the process and the set up the next time around.
- If anyone changed their mind or leaning as a result of the debate.
Peace,
Ayman
Very nice to listen to both of you sharing your thoughts... too bad I could not ask my questions, and in fact had to cut short my attendence however the discussionwas insightful from both parties.
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That is your idea but this man with his claim as messenger with no proof is damaging image of GR Quran. You as moderator should be more careful taking side of afake messenger. He can not tell more than Quran and FN translation. please be careful and do not let you be branded as supporter and encourage such corruption.
Best thing is push ignore buttonRashid is your god. He failed the math test for the rejecting mathmitician when he disregarded Gods words ( 9128-129) in order to justify his claim and to show his proof as messenger ( but God stopped sending the signs and it isnt for any messenger to bring proof except by Gods leave). Him and his followers will be cast into Hell. God gave him plenty. But he got greedy wanting that God give him more ( messengership). He had the power of the uneverse at hand, and even with this knowledge he had and wisdom, he pursued selfish ends. The number of angels gaurding the Fire is for him and his soldiers. 19 is the mark of Rashid Kalfa. The number of the angels was made so that he can take a math test. Whenever Gods messenger wants to abuse his authority, he may. And that is what he did. Just because he brought the 19 "miracle," doesent mean that you know he was Gods soldier or messenger. Only God knows who His solders or messengers are.
He was faced with a choice If we keep these verses, then my theory fails and the Quran is not protected. And if we dismiss these verses then my theory is correct. He took it upon himself to protect the Quran as if he is God. And he took it upon himself to change it of his own accord. And we believe in the math in the Quran, but he oversteped in his system other than the truth when he followed his desire.
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I would like to thank Ayman for his participation and expressing the views of a skeptic with a cool temper. Inshallah, we will meet at the same room Islamic Reform at Paltalk again. If we have enough volunteers then we can keep it open most of the time.
Peace,
Edip