Number of wives?
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So now polygamy is being put along side the oppression of women! There are unmarried and widowed women out there, women without family and children, who wouldn't mind being even fifth, sixth or seventh wife of a man. Monogamists deprive women of their needs. THAT'S oppression! THAT'S injustice! Selfish people!
Assalaam Alaikum @Fahad
Yes, Fahad If you or any other man suggests to a woman that he can 'possess' her as an additional wife EVEN though YOU KNOW that Allah,swt has NOT given you that right....
Yes..YOU are oppressing that Female and Allah does NOT take that lightly
Fahad, Allah,swt did NOT say 'Go Forth and Multiply', thats Bible....
Allah,swt states in the Quran...
O mankind! reverence your Guardian-Lord, who created you from a single soul/ , created of like nature, its mate, and from that soul created countless men and women;- reverence / Allah, through whom you demand your mutual (rights), AND REVERENCE THE WOMBS (AL-Arhama)/ .
for Allah ever watches over you. /Fahad, Allah is indicating in the above ayah, that Women are a 'special creation' from Allah. Thus Allah is instructing the Males to have regard for Allah 'AND' the 'wombs' (AL-Arhama)/ .
We recognize as Muslims ONE entity worthy of worship that is Allah, the same regard and recognition we have for Allah is the same regard and recognition Allah is commanding us to have as it relates to Women, ONE lifetime commitment to ONE Woman, period.
Arhama (noun, plural) wombs;Rahim merciful;Rahima his mercy and love
Dictionary of the Holy Quran page 206 (rahima) -
Peace,
I know I have read somewhere in Quran that the MEN/HUSBANDS are the head of the family. But even that statements from Quran, I think also the women have their responsibility to help and support her husband and work out of home.
In cases of widows, well there is the society who bear the responsibility to help the needy.
I think we women must declare us stronger and not only lean on the men and feel that a marriage is the only solutions for us.
In my opinion I would rather be single and fight for my children's wellbeings than to be a second or third wife.
Maria
salam
i have written 4 responses to your post and i have deleted each and everyone.i can write a book on those few wordds you said and i wont lie to you i wouldnt have of said very nice things because unfortunaltey people are lacking the understanding of what god and his book are all about.
i will say one thing with that response that you posted i guarantee you do not come with the understanding of religion and the idea why we are here. -
'MA taaba la kum MIN an nisa' means 'WHO(MA) seem good to you FROM(MIN) the women'.
The verse is saying And if you fear that you shall not be deal justly with the yatama, so ankihu who seem good to you from the women, twos, threes and fours...
Do you even try to fit your understanding with the rest of the verse? Do you even read what the rest of the verse is says?
Assalaam Alaikum @Fahad...
Wrong! Address the ayah properly as I have taken the time to do....
Wain khiftum alla tuqsitoo fee alyatama fa VERBAL SENTENCE >>> inkihoo ADVERBAL MODIFIERS >>> MA TABA lakum minna <<< GENITIVE >>> alnnisai ADJECTIVES >>> mathna wathulatha warubaAAa <<< fain khiftum alla taAAdiloo fa ADJECTIVE Subject (Al Nisa) >>>> wahidatan <<< aw ma malakat aymanukum thalika adna alla taAAooloo
Ma is a negation Fahad...
Ma Negative particle when placed BEFORE a perfect verb (taba) or BEFORE a pronoun or BEFORE a demonstrative noun. Also used as a negative particle BEFORE a perfect tense among verbal forms.
Dictionary of the Holy Quran page 523-524 (ma)The TWO conditions have been met, the 'Ma' is BEFORE a perfect verb (taba) and BEFORE a perfect tense among a verbal form or sentence (inkihoo denotes the verbal sentence, 'Ma' is the FIRST adverbial modifier of the verbal form or sentence)
I await your 'cogent' response, that addresses the above grammatical references and context.
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salam muslimthreadrevealed. you persist in misleading people. do you even realize your posts are utterly wrong
you make the false claim that
complete utter nonsense. there is no divorce in islam. there is talaq in islam. the word talaq is not present in 43. therefore, you are misleading people and lying.allah is the truth.
Allah,swt is telling you in the ayah NOT to marry 2,3 & 4 times...what is Allah,swt telling you NOT to do?
Al Araf, let me give you an ayah to ponder, since you keep running from thread to thread calling me and others liars and accusing me of misleading people...
This is what Allah,swt wishes you to understand....
Those who brought forward the lie are a body among yourselves. think it not to be an evil to you; On the contrary it is good for you. to every man among them (will come the punishment) of the sin that he earned, and to him who took on himself the lead among them, will be a penalty grievous.
Al Araf the punishment for lying is on YOU! Your lying upon my character and effort is a blessing for me!
Why did not the believers - men and women - when you heard of the affair,- put the best construction on it in their own minds and say, "This (charge) is an obvious lie" ?
Al Araf, Do you see others following you and taking your position? name calling and character assassinations
Why did they not bring four witnesses to prove it? When they have NOT brought the witnesses, such men, in the sight of Allah, (stand forth) themselves as LIARS!
Al Araf I have invited several times to bring proof that I am lying and misleading....
Im still waiting...
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im not asking you to agree with anything this is my view, but explain to me why mohamad had so many wives and dont tell me hes a special case,id he is a prophet dont you tink he should have been the first no to have mulitple wives. or is there a different translation for that too. and by the way i really would like to know where thses translations are coming from because they are ver off of what quran is.
as for animals i beleive they do have mulitple mates or am i wrong in that, sorry im not very good with scienceThe Quran specifically says he is a special case - see 3350 "as a privilege given only to you and not to the believers."
However, I don't really believe this. He just did what he wanted. He gave no meaningful teachings about polygamy so this is something we should reason for ourselves. As my link pointed out - some animals are promiscuous and some are monogamous - you can tell by the chemistry in their brains. Human beings have the brain chemistry of a monogamous mammal, we form a neuro-chemical bond with a specific sex partner - we fall in love. So only monogamy is natural.
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Somewhere int he Quran regarding something which was being forbidden the exception is made "except what already passed", that is what was done already. The command to nt take any more wives was made to Muhammad when he already had a a number. Was any man compelled to divorce wives he already had when the injuction was given to marry the single? I doubt it. So I do not think that and exception was made for Muhammad, except to forbid him to divorce any of his wives or exchange them for others. He was not being allowed to marry more than he already had, but no other man was forced to divorce any wife he already had. So the exception was a restriction not a privilege.
Salaam
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The Quran specifically says he is a special case - see 3350 "as a privilege given only to you and not to the believers."
However, I don't really believe this. He just did what he wanted. He gave no meaningful teachings about polygamy
salam
please show me where it is he is privillaged.O prophet, we made lawful for you your wives to whom you have paid their due dowry, or what you already have, as granted to you by GOD. Also lawful for you in marriage are the daughters of your father's brothers, the daughters of your father's sisters, the daughters of your mother's brothers, the daughters of your mother's sisters, who have emigrated with you. Also, if a believing woman gave herself to the prophet - by forfeiting the dowry - the prophet may marry her without a dowry, if he so wishes. However, her forfeiting of the dowry applies only to the prophet, and not to the other believers. We have already decreed their rights in regard to their spouses or what they already have. This is to spare you any embarrassment. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful
if he didnt give any meaningful teachings is only because god beat him to it, its in the quran, and ppl can turn and switch the verses anyway they want, its very clear in arabic. translations are never 100% right.
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Somewhere int he Quran regarding something which was being forbidden the exception is made "except what already passed", that is what was done already. The command to nt take any more wives was made to Muhammad when he already had a a number. Was any man compelled to divorce wives he already had when the injuction was given to marry the single? I doubt it. So I do not think that and exception was made for Muhammad, except to forbid him to divorce any of his wives or exchange them for others. He was not being allowed to marry more than he already had, but no other man was forced to divorce any wife he already had. So the exception was a restriction not a privilege.
Salaam
Yes, and we also have a similar restriction to the general public in verses 422 "And do not marry the women your fathers married except what has already passed", and 423 "and two sisters in wedlock at the same time except what has passed". No command to divorce them.
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Assalaam Alaikum
All 'excesses' in regards to women are addressed here...
Wa-ith taqoolu lillathee anAAama Allahu AAalayhi waanAAamta AAalayhi
amsik AAalayka zawjaka waittaqi Allaha / amsik AAalayka zawjaka waittaqi Allaha = Keep your dignity with your wife/mate and have regard for Allahwa tukhfee fee nafsika / and Be aware of your soul;your inner feelings
ma Allahu mubdeehi watakhsha alnnasa waAllahu ahaqqu an takhshahuBeginning of a Verbal Sentence>>>>>
fa / conjunctive particle lamma qada zaydun minha wataran zawwaj nakaha li-kaa (for YOU) la yakoona AAala almu/mineena harajun fee azwaji adAAiya-ihim itha qadaw minhunna wataran wakana amru Allahi mafAAoolan
It is not lawful for you (to marry more) women after this / min baAAdu, NOR TO CHANGE THEM FOR (OTHER) WIVES
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salam muslimtruthrevealed. you continue to lie making the false claim that allah has prohibited more than one wife.
you have not produced a single verse that says what you claim. therefore you persist in lying. as i predicted you flood the thread with irrelevant verses, none of which say, more than one wife is prohibited. allah has already ordained a severe punishment for people who forge lies.
allah is the judge.
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salam muslimtruthrevealed. you continue to lie making the false claim that allah has prohibited more than one wife.
you have not produced a single verse that says what you claim. therefore you persist in lying. as i predicted you flood the thread with irrelevant verses, none of which say, more than one wife is prohibited. allah has already ordained a severe punishment for people who forge lies.
allah is the judge.
Why did they not bring four witnesses to prove it? When they have NOT brought the witnesses, such men, in the sight of Allah, (stand forth) themselves as LIARS!
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salam
please show me where it is he is privillaged.O prophet, we made lawful for you your wives to whom you have paid their due dowry, or what you already have, as granted to you by GOD. Also lawful for you in marriage are the daughters of your father's brothers, the daughters of your father's sisters, the daughters of your mother's brothers, the daughters of your mother's sisters, who have emigrated with you. Also, if a believing woman gave herself to the prophet - by forfeiting the dowry - the prophet may marry her without a dowry, if he so wishes. However, her forfeiting of the dowry applies only to the prophet, and not to the other believers. We have already decreed their rights in regard to their spouses or what they already have. This is to spare you any embarrassment. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful
if he didnt give any meaningful teachings is only because god beat him to it, its in the quran, and ppl can turn and switch the verses anyway they want, its very clear in arabic. translations are never 100% right.
Of course there's no meaningful teachings about polygamy in the Quran. It isn't mentioned once explicitly. There are a few verses where it may be considered 'implicit' - like 43 and 3350 - but these are not meaningful teachings. To paraphrase Hume, there is no abstract reasoning concerning quantity or number, and no experimental reasoning concerning matter of fact or existence on this subject. It does not explicitly mention polygamy, hence it does not teach about polygamy.
The Quran does tells us that in some matters the Prophet is an exception, and no where does it say we should copy the prophet's behaviour. So there's no use in saying because the Prophet did something it must be okay. It's just not like that.
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salam
i have written 4 responses to your post and i have deleted each and everyone.i can write a book on those few wordds you said and i wont lie to you i wouldnt have of said very nice things because unfortunaltey people are lacking the understanding of what god and his book are all about.
i will say one thing with that response that you posted i guarantee you do not come with the understanding of religion and the idea why we are here.Peace Anna,
Well it's your understanding/opinion that I have no clue of what religion is ).
Everyone have their own understanding of what is God, religion/system, etc.I'm not willing to discuss it here in this thread because it will be offtopic.
The only thing I can say to you is that we shall unite and work together in our communities so our citizens have a good and humane life may it be males and females in all ages.
In Quran there are great examples for us to learn but as i hope you agree about is that males and females are equal and therefore we must help and support eachother always.
When people see themselves as some kind of victims then they will be victims, therefore I really want all women to not let themselves in that trap.
I think it's old thinking that women must suffer after a divorce, well both men and women suffer after splittings, and there are clear advice in Quran what to do to with children after divorces. I mean the father of the child have to pay for food etc for the child/children if they are not in his household because God wouldn't punish women for having babies because it's their nature when they are in a marriage.
Please sister don't paint up women as losers and victims then we will always exactly be that
God care for us all, if we ask for help we will get help......
Peace
sis Maria -
It is not lawful for you (to marry more) women after this / min baAAdu, NOR TO CHANGE THEM FOR (OTHER) WIVES
Assalamu alaykum
You know I've always wondered if that has meant no wives after taking maximum 4. Such as marry 1, divorce 1, marriage a second, divorce a second, marriage a 3rd, divorce a 3rd, marriage a 4th, divorce a 4th, no more marriages.
Edit
I just had a look at the free-minds website, and it seems like the article under "how many wives" was for widows (and perhaps divorced women, or maybe even orphaned females) was in favour of polygny.
http//free-minds.org/women/polygamy1.htm
Also, I'm not sure if Quran (an nisa) 4129 has been mentioned here, but it's used in the above link.
4129
Walan tastateeAAoo an taAAdiloo bayna alnnisai walaw harastum fala tameeloo kulla almayli fatatharooha kaalmuAAallaqati wain tuslihoo watattaqoo fainna Allaha kana ghafooran raheeman
And it will not be within your power to treat your wives with equal fairness, however much you may desire it; and so, do not allow yourselves to incline towards one to the exclusion of the other, leaving her in a state, as it were, of having and not having a husband. But if you put things to rights and are conscious of Him - behold, God is indeed much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace.
Perhaps we should come to a common term?
Though I see that the issue here is around "fairness" (and perhaps some sort of orientalist idea of opression). I've always thought of that being in regards of cohabiting with a wife and providing for her material needs (money, clothes, food, education, supplies, travel etc).
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Assalamu alaykum
You know I've always wondered if that has meant no wives after taking maximum 4. Such as marry 1, divorce 1, marriage a second, divorce a second, marriage a 3rd, divorce a 3rd, marriage a 4th, divorce a 4th, no more marriages.
Edit
I just had a look at the free-minds website, and it seems like the article under "how many wives" was for widows (and perhaps divorced women, or maybe even orphaned females) was in favour of polygny.
http//free-minds.org/women/polygamy1.htmAlso, I'm not sure if Quran (an nisa) 4129 has been mentioned here, but it's used in the above link.
4129
Walan tastateeAAoo an taAAdiloo bayna alnnisai walaw harastum fala tameeloo kulla almayli fatatharooha kaalmuAAallaqati wain tuslihoo watattaqoo fainna Allaha kana ghafooran raheeman
And it will not be within your power to treat your wives with equal fairness, however much you may desire it; and so, do not allow yourselves to incline towards one to the exclusion of the other, leaving her in a state, as it were, of having and not having a husband. But if you put things to rights and are conscious of Him - behold, God is indeed much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace.
Perhaps we should come to a common term?
Though I see that the issue here is around "fairness" (and perhaps some sort of orientalist idea of opression). I've always thought of that being in regards of cohabiting with a wife and providing for her material needs (money, clothes, food, education, supplies, travel etc).
Peace,
Don't count me in among those divorced one who favour polygny.
We are humans not animals......
maria
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why dont you wake up from your dream world and wake up to reality, all those broken homes or those phycological problems. they are casue becuase of what faith they do not have, you think god does not know what hes talking about .you know how many women divorce becasue there husbands cheat on them do you know how many broken homes and lost children because the men no longer are in love with there wives. thats reality. but if men were allowed to marry again even in the western society, life would be much simpler then what it is today, but then im dreaming because in order to ahve that people would have to have a great deal of faith and that unfortunatley we dont have, yes i am a female and even though i am divorced now, i was married once and i was hoping my ex husband would marry my friend for reasons or other. by the wway whats the count on men and women int his world wasnit it something like 7 to 1 or am i mistaken.
Peace Anna
I don't mean to belittle your analogy but you really need to hear the stories of women who have been through polygyny to really understand the psychological damage polygyny has on women and children. It truly is quite sad. Perhaps you would have a change of heart after you read them. There are many stories out there but the majority tend to show how polygyny breaks families rather than control the lustfulness of both males and females who only think of themselves rather than all those involved, ie. the first wife and the children.
http//www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/429490
http//ourrewardsawaitus.blogspot.com/
http//vena-thoughtsof.blogspot.com/I agree completely with Maria (SwedenMaijidah). We women do need to be strong and put our faith in the One God. He is our protector, to Him do we seek guidance and to Him do we ask for help. No man can ever fill the void in our lives like God does.
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Peace the silverlining,
I have read the links you posted and they speak their message out clearly that polygny is not good and make more problems.
Scary was that the imam asked the men who marry more than one to be silent and not tell the first wife >(.Maria
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Assalamu alaykum
You know I've always wondered if that has meant no wives after taking maximum 4. Such as marry 1, divorce 1, marriage a second, divorce a second, marriage a 3rd, divorce a 3rd, marriage a 4th, divorce a 4th, no more marriages.
Edit
I just had a look at the free-minds website, and it seems like the article under "how many wives" was for widows (and perhaps divorced women, or maybe even orphaned females) was in favour of polygny.
http//free-minds.org/women/polygamy1.htm
Also, I'm not sure if Quran (an nisa) 4129 has been mentioned here, but it's used in the above link.
4129
Walan tastateeAAoo an taAAdiloo bayna alnnisai walaw harastum fala tameeloo kulla almayli fatatharooha kaalmuAAallaqati wain tuslihoo watattaqoo fainna Allaha kana ghafooran raheeman
And it will not be within your power to treat your wives with equal fairness, however much you may desire it; and so, do not allow yourselves to incline towards one to the exclusion of the other, leaving her in a state, as it were, of having and not having a husband. But if you put things to rights and are conscious of Him - behold, God is indeed much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace.
Perhaps we should come to a common term?
Though I see that the issue here is around "fairness" (and perhaps some sort of orientalist idea of opression). I've always thought of that being in regards of cohabiting with a wife and providing for her material needs (money, clothes, food, education, supplies, travel etc).
Assalaam Aalaikum
@Far the translation you posted for 4129 is incorrect, it should NOT say 'wives'. The Arabic says 'An-Nisai'
Its already been proven that Sura Nisa 43 is NOT referring to polygamy / polygyny, but actually divorce.
Just review this page in the thread http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597268.15
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Assalaam Aalaikum
@Far the translation you posted for 4129 is incorrect, it should NOT say 'wives'. The Arabic says 'An-Nisai'
Its already been proven that Sura Nisa 43 is NOT referring to polygamy / polygyny, but actually divorce.
Just review this page in the thread http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597268.15
You make reference on that page that "yateem" does not equate with "alyatama".
But isn't "alyatama" plural for "yateem".
Also, I skipped what you wrote as what you wrote was all over the place.
By the way, which qualification do you have regarding classical/quranic arabic?
4129 And it will not be within your power to treat your women with equal fairness, however much you may desire it; and so, do not allow yourselves to incline towards one to the exclusion of the other, leaving her in a state, as it were, of having and not having a husband. But if you put things to rights and are conscious of Him - behold, God is indeed much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace.
How does the above translation relate to you?
P.S. Do not say "NOT", that is shouting.