Number of wives?
-
Somewhere int he Quran regarding something which was being forbidden the exception is made "except what already passed", that is what was done already. The command to nt take any more wives was made to Muhammad when he already had a a number. Was any man compelled to divorce wives he already had when the injuction was given to marry the single? I doubt it. So I do not think that and exception was made for Muhammad, except to forbid him to divorce any of his wives or exchange them for others. He was not being allowed to marry more than he already had, but no other man was forced to divorce any wife he already had. So the exception was a restriction not a privilege.
Salaam
-
The Quran specifically says he is a special case - see 3350 "as a privilege given only to you and not to the believers."
However, I don't really believe this. He just did what he wanted. He gave no meaningful teachings about polygamy
salam
please show me where it is he is privillaged.O prophet, we made lawful for you your wives to whom you have paid their due dowry, or what you already have, as granted to you by GOD. Also lawful for you in marriage are the daughters of your father's brothers, the daughters of your father's sisters, the daughters of your mother's brothers, the daughters of your mother's sisters, who have emigrated with you. Also, if a believing woman gave herself to the prophet - by forfeiting the dowry - the prophet may marry her without a dowry, if he so wishes. However, her forfeiting of the dowry applies only to the prophet, and not to the other believers. We have already decreed their rights in regard to their spouses or what they already have. This is to spare you any embarrassment. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful
if he didnt give any meaningful teachings is only because god beat him to it, its in the quran, and ppl can turn and switch the verses anyway they want, its very clear in arabic. translations are never 100% right.
-
Somewhere int he Quran regarding something which was being forbidden the exception is made "except what already passed", that is what was done already. The command to nt take any more wives was made to Muhammad when he already had a a number. Was any man compelled to divorce wives he already had when the injuction was given to marry the single? I doubt it. So I do not think that and exception was made for Muhammad, except to forbid him to divorce any of his wives or exchange them for others. He was not being allowed to marry more than he already had, but no other man was forced to divorce any wife he already had. So the exception was a restriction not a privilege.
Salaam
Yes, and we also have a similar restriction to the general public in verses 422 "And do not marry the women your fathers married except what has already passed", and 423 "and two sisters in wedlock at the same time except what has passed". No command to divorce them.
-
Assalaam Alaikum
All 'excesses' in regards to women are addressed here...
Wa-ith taqoolu lillathee anAAama Allahu AAalayhi waanAAamta AAalayhi
amsik AAalayka zawjaka waittaqi Allaha / amsik AAalayka zawjaka waittaqi Allaha = Keep your dignity with your wife/mate and have regard for Allahwa tukhfee fee nafsika / and Be aware of your soul;your inner feelings
ma Allahu mubdeehi watakhsha alnnasa waAllahu ahaqqu an takhshahuBeginning of a Verbal Sentence>>>>>
fa / conjunctive particle lamma qada zaydun minha wataran zawwaj nakaha li-kaa (for YOU) la yakoona AAala almu/mineena harajun fee azwaji adAAiya-ihim itha qadaw minhunna wataran wakana amru Allahi mafAAoolan
It is not lawful for you (to marry more) women after this / min baAAdu, NOR TO CHANGE THEM FOR (OTHER) WIVES
-
salam muslimtruthrevealed. you continue to lie making the false claim that allah has prohibited more than one wife.
you have not produced a single verse that says what you claim. therefore you persist in lying. as i predicted you flood the thread with irrelevant verses, none of which say, more than one wife is prohibited. allah has already ordained a severe punishment for people who forge lies.
allah is the judge.
-
salam muslimtruthrevealed. you continue to lie making the false claim that allah has prohibited more than one wife.
you have not produced a single verse that says what you claim. therefore you persist in lying. as i predicted you flood the thread with irrelevant verses, none of which say, more than one wife is prohibited. allah has already ordained a severe punishment for people who forge lies.
allah is the judge.
Why did they not bring four witnesses to prove it? When they have NOT brought the witnesses, such men, in the sight of Allah, (stand forth) themselves as LIARS!
-
salam
please show me where it is he is privillaged.O prophet, we made lawful for you your wives to whom you have paid their due dowry, or what you already have, as granted to you by GOD. Also lawful for you in marriage are the daughters of your father's brothers, the daughters of your father's sisters, the daughters of your mother's brothers, the daughters of your mother's sisters, who have emigrated with you. Also, if a believing woman gave herself to the prophet - by forfeiting the dowry - the prophet may marry her without a dowry, if he so wishes. However, her forfeiting of the dowry applies only to the prophet, and not to the other believers. We have already decreed their rights in regard to their spouses or what they already have. This is to spare you any embarrassment. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful
if he didnt give any meaningful teachings is only because god beat him to it, its in the quran, and ppl can turn and switch the verses anyway they want, its very clear in arabic. translations are never 100% right.
Of course there's no meaningful teachings about polygamy in the Quran. It isn't mentioned once explicitly. There are a few verses where it may be considered 'implicit' - like 43 and 3350 - but these are not meaningful teachings. To paraphrase Hume, there is no abstract reasoning concerning quantity or number, and no experimental reasoning concerning matter of fact or existence on this subject. It does not explicitly mention polygamy, hence it does not teach about polygamy.
The Quran does tells us that in some matters the Prophet is an exception, and no where does it say we should copy the prophet's behaviour. So there's no use in saying because the Prophet did something it must be okay. It's just not like that.
-
salam
i have written 4 responses to your post and i have deleted each and everyone.i can write a book on those few wordds you said and i wont lie to you i wouldnt have of said very nice things because unfortunaltey people are lacking the understanding of what god and his book are all about.
i will say one thing with that response that you posted i guarantee you do not come with the understanding of religion and the idea why we are here.Peace Anna,
Well it's your understanding/opinion that I have no clue of what religion is ).
Everyone have their own understanding of what is God, religion/system, etc.I'm not willing to discuss it here in this thread because it will be offtopic.
The only thing I can say to you is that we shall unite and work together in our communities so our citizens have a good and humane life may it be males and females in all ages.
In Quran there are great examples for us to learn but as i hope you agree about is that males and females are equal and therefore we must help and support eachother always.
When people see themselves as some kind of victims then they will be victims, therefore I really want all women to not let themselves in that trap.
I think it's old thinking that women must suffer after a divorce, well both men and women suffer after splittings, and there are clear advice in Quran what to do to with children after divorces. I mean the father of the child have to pay for food etc for the child/children if they are not in his household because God wouldn't punish women for having babies because it's their nature when they are in a marriage.
Please sister don't paint up women as losers and victims then we will always exactly be that
God care for us all, if we ask for help we will get help......
Peace
sis Maria -
It is not lawful for you (to marry more) women after this / min baAAdu, NOR TO CHANGE THEM FOR (OTHER) WIVES
Assalamu alaykum
You know I've always wondered if that has meant no wives after taking maximum 4. Such as marry 1, divorce 1, marriage a second, divorce a second, marriage a 3rd, divorce a 3rd, marriage a 4th, divorce a 4th, no more marriages.
Edit
I just had a look at the free-minds website, and it seems like the article under "how many wives" was for widows (and perhaps divorced women, or maybe even orphaned females) was in favour of polygny.
http//free-minds.org/women/polygamy1.htm
Also, I'm not sure if Quran (an nisa) 4129 has been mentioned here, but it's used in the above link.
4129
Walan tastateeAAoo an taAAdiloo bayna alnnisai walaw harastum fala tameeloo kulla almayli fatatharooha kaalmuAAallaqati wain tuslihoo watattaqoo fainna Allaha kana ghafooran raheeman
And it will not be within your power to treat your wives with equal fairness, however much you may desire it; and so, do not allow yourselves to incline towards one to the exclusion of the other, leaving her in a state, as it were, of having and not having a husband. But if you put things to rights and are conscious of Him - behold, God is indeed much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace.
Perhaps we should come to a common term?
Though I see that the issue here is around "fairness" (and perhaps some sort of orientalist idea of opression). I've always thought of that being in regards of cohabiting with a wife and providing for her material needs (money, clothes, food, education, supplies, travel etc).
-
Assalamu alaykum
You know I've always wondered if that has meant no wives after taking maximum 4. Such as marry 1, divorce 1, marriage a second, divorce a second, marriage a 3rd, divorce a 3rd, marriage a 4th, divorce a 4th, no more marriages.
Edit
I just had a look at the free-minds website, and it seems like the article under "how many wives" was for widows (and perhaps divorced women, or maybe even orphaned females) was in favour of polygny.
http//free-minds.org/women/polygamy1.htmAlso, I'm not sure if Quran (an nisa) 4129 has been mentioned here, but it's used in the above link.
4129
Walan tastateeAAoo an taAAdiloo bayna alnnisai walaw harastum fala tameeloo kulla almayli fatatharooha kaalmuAAallaqati wain tuslihoo watattaqoo fainna Allaha kana ghafooran raheeman
And it will not be within your power to treat your wives with equal fairness, however much you may desire it; and so, do not allow yourselves to incline towards one to the exclusion of the other, leaving her in a state, as it were, of having and not having a husband. But if you put things to rights and are conscious of Him - behold, God is indeed much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace.
Perhaps we should come to a common term?
Though I see that the issue here is around "fairness" (and perhaps some sort of orientalist idea of opression). I've always thought of that being in regards of cohabiting with a wife and providing for her material needs (money, clothes, food, education, supplies, travel etc).
Peace,
Don't count me in among those divorced one who favour polygny.
We are humans not animals......
maria
-
why dont you wake up from your dream world and wake up to reality, all those broken homes or those phycological problems. they are casue becuase of what faith they do not have, you think god does not know what hes talking about .you know how many women divorce becasue there husbands cheat on them do you know how many broken homes and lost children because the men no longer are in love with there wives. thats reality. but if men were allowed to marry again even in the western society, life would be much simpler then what it is today, but then im dreaming because in order to ahve that people would have to have a great deal of faith and that unfortunatley we dont have, yes i am a female and even though i am divorced now, i was married once and i was hoping my ex husband would marry my friend for reasons or other. by the wway whats the count on men and women int his world wasnit it something like 7 to 1 or am i mistaken.
Peace Anna
I don't mean to belittle your analogy but you really need to hear the stories of women who have been through polygyny to really understand the psychological damage polygyny has on women and children. It truly is quite sad. Perhaps you would have a change of heart after you read them. There are many stories out there but the majority tend to show how polygyny breaks families rather than control the lustfulness of both males and females who only think of themselves rather than all those involved, ie. the first wife and the children.
http//www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/429490
http//ourrewardsawaitus.blogspot.com/
http//vena-thoughtsof.blogspot.com/I agree completely with Maria (SwedenMaijidah). We women do need to be strong and put our faith in the One God. He is our protector, to Him do we seek guidance and to Him do we ask for help. No man can ever fill the void in our lives like God does.
-
Peace the silverlining,
I have read the links you posted and they speak their message out clearly that polygny is not good and make more problems.
Scary was that the imam asked the men who marry more than one to be silent and not tell the first wife >(.Maria
-
Assalamu alaykum
You know I've always wondered if that has meant no wives after taking maximum 4. Such as marry 1, divorce 1, marriage a second, divorce a second, marriage a 3rd, divorce a 3rd, marriage a 4th, divorce a 4th, no more marriages.
Edit
I just had a look at the free-minds website, and it seems like the article under "how many wives" was for widows (and perhaps divorced women, or maybe even orphaned females) was in favour of polygny.
http//free-minds.org/women/polygamy1.htm
Also, I'm not sure if Quran (an nisa) 4129 has been mentioned here, but it's used in the above link.
4129
Walan tastateeAAoo an taAAdiloo bayna alnnisai walaw harastum fala tameeloo kulla almayli fatatharooha kaalmuAAallaqati wain tuslihoo watattaqoo fainna Allaha kana ghafooran raheeman
And it will not be within your power to treat your wives with equal fairness, however much you may desire it; and so, do not allow yourselves to incline towards one to the exclusion of the other, leaving her in a state, as it were, of having and not having a husband. But if you put things to rights and are conscious of Him - behold, God is indeed much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace.
Perhaps we should come to a common term?
Though I see that the issue here is around "fairness" (and perhaps some sort of orientalist idea of opression). I've always thought of that being in regards of cohabiting with a wife and providing for her material needs (money, clothes, food, education, supplies, travel etc).
Assalaam Aalaikum
@Far the translation you posted for 4129 is incorrect, it should NOT say 'wives'. The Arabic says 'An-Nisai'
Its already been proven that Sura Nisa 43 is NOT referring to polygamy / polygyny, but actually divorce.
Just review this page in the thread http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597268.15
-
Assalaam Aalaikum
@Far the translation you posted for 4129 is incorrect, it should NOT say 'wives'. The Arabic says 'An-Nisai'
Its already been proven that Sura Nisa 43 is NOT referring to polygamy / polygyny, but actually divorce.
Just review this page in the thread http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597268.15
You make reference on that page that "yateem" does not equate with "alyatama".
But isn't "alyatama" plural for "yateem".
Also, I skipped what you wrote as what you wrote was all over the place.
By the way, which qualification do you have regarding classical/quranic arabic?
4129 And it will not be within your power to treat your women with equal fairness, however much you may desire it; and so, do not allow yourselves to incline towards one to the exclusion of the other, leaving her in a state, as it were, of having and not having a husband. But if you put things to rights and are conscious of Him - behold, God is indeed much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace.
How does the above translation relate to you?
P.S. Do not say "NOT", that is shouting.
-
Assalaam Alaikum @Far
Please do not 'personalize' the thread, its NOT 'personal'. Capitalization is denoting affirmation and imperative, relax, its fine.
Actually If you take the time to read my responses in http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597268.15
I was quite logical, cogent and succinct.
Al Yatama is a definite noun, singular has nothing to do with orphans. Again I defined the distinction between Al Yatama and yateem clearly and succinctly.
If you like we can discuss.
-
Assalaam Alaikum @Far
Please do not 'personalize' the thread, its NOT 'personal'. Capitalization is denoting affirmation and imperative, relax, its fine.
Actually If you take the time to read my responses in http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597268.15
I was quite logical, cogent and succinct.
Al Yatama is a definite noun, singular has nothing to do with orphans. Again I defined the distinction between Al Yatama and yateem clearly and succinctly.
If you like we can discuss.
Well I'm asking for a personal explanation of your study.
Your proposition is something that would not be easy on the eyes/ears, your capitalization does not improve your position.
Perhaps you should write up an essay or thesis?
-
Peace Anna
I don't mean to belittle your analogy but you really need to hear the stories of women who have been through polygyny to really understand the psychological damage polygyny has on women and children. It truly is quite sad. Perhaps you would have a change of heart after you read them. There are many stories out there but the majority tend to show how polygyny breaks families rather than control the lustfulness of both males and females who only think of themselves rather than all those involved, ie. the first wife and the children.
http//www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/429490
http//ourrewardsawaitus.blogspot.com/
http//vena-thoughtsof.blogspot.com/I agree completely with Maria (SwedenMaijidah). We women do need to be strong and put our faith in the One God. He is our protector, to Him do we seek guidance and to Him do we ask for help. No man can ever fill the void in our lives like God does.
salam,
im sorry but i dont agree,and it seems we are talking about 2 different things, quran, and society, if we talk about the quran then yes its ok to marry up to 4 wives and dont forget when god talk about rules its usually for those who are beleivers and obey. but if you are talking about society today , well thats a whole different story, today everything is abused not just marriage. so you cannot mix the 2 together , what islam is, and what is practiced..........well. -
Peace Anna,
Well it's your understanding/opinion that I have no clue of what religion is .
Everyone have their own understanding of what is God, religion/system, etc.I'm not willing to discuss it here in this thread because it will be fftopic.
The only thing I can say to you is that we shall unite and work together in our communities so our citizens have a good and humane life may it be males and females in all ages.
In Quran there are great examples for us to learn but as i hope you agree about is that males and females are equal and therefore we must help and support eachother always.
When people see themselves as some kind of victims then they will be victims, therefore I really want all women to not let themselves in that trap.
I think it's old thinking that women must suffer after a divorce, well both men and women suffer after splittings, and there are clear advice in Quran what to do to with children after divorces. I mean the father of the child have to pay for food etc for the child/children if they are not in his household because God wouldn't punish women for having babies because it's their nature when they are in a marriage.
Please sister don't paint up women as losers and victims then we will always exactly be that (
God care for us all, if we ask for help we will get help......
Peace
sis Mariasalam
actually and to be honest with you this remark you made really pissed me off
"""In cases of widows, well there is the society who bear the responsibility to help the needy.''''you speak of them as if they were born poor or somthing dont forget that the women who became widowed was becasue therehusbands gave there lives to islam, and i saw plenty of it in the last war in lebanon, many women who lost there husbands.....
and as far as women go, im not painting anything, women are not weak and victims, we are very strong and in light of reality we really dont need men, i am a perfect example last year alone in 9 months i worked the equavilent of 2 years in other words 64 hours a week and for 3 months straight i worked 84 a week, so we can work and support ourselves but again are you speaking of what society wants of us or what god wants of us. god does not bring rules into the world out of play and if we follow those rules then no, i dont think there would problems as stated on this thread with multiple marriages, the fault goes to those who are in them and how they deal with it. -
salam
ummmmm yes i understand what you are trying to say, butttttttttt if a man with 4 wives gets them all pregnant......and then you have a female with 4 men and she gets pregnant, you following me here.yes
i personnally beelive that a man is allowed 4 wives and please dont take tht right from us as females. first our salat is taken away now are men. it is our right to pray to god through salat (as a ritual) and it is out right as woman to marry men who are already married, the only problem is men dont want.
tell me when wars happened in the olden days and women were left with no men, are they to be denied companionship for the rest of there lives, are they simply ignored and thrown to the side becuase are husbands died for the cause of god but now we pay the price but living alone till death.i wish more men stood up like real men and married those who have no husbands. men are those who make or break this world, and so far im sorry to say, men have done a great job of breaking.Salam
I agree )