Oral Debate between Ayman and Edip...
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^ I don't think that is the kind of "dispute" being spoken of...
Peace;
Yes IT IS. Please read the following commendments and tell me what do you think about disputing among Submitters.
( ( ( ( ( ( (
O ye who believe! fear Allah as He should be feared, and die not except in a state of Islam. (102)
And hold fast, all together by the rope of Allah, and be not divided among yourselves; and remember with gratitude Allah's favour on you; for ye were enemies and He joined your hearts in love so that by His Grace, ye became brethren; and ye were on the brink of the pit of fire, and He saved you from it. Thus doth Allah make his signs clear to you that ye may be guided. (103)
Let there arise out of you a band of people inviting to all that is good, enjoining what is right, and forbidding what is wrong; they are the ones to attain felicity. (104)
Be not like those who are divided amongst themselves and fall into disputations after receiving Clear signs; for them is a dreadful penalty. (105)
On the Day when some faces will be white, and some faces will be black; to those whose faces will be black, (will be said) "Did ye reject faith after accepting it? Taste then the penalty for rejecting faith. (106)
But those whose faces will be whitethey will be in Allah's mercy; therein to dwell (forever). (107)
These are the Signs of Allah We rehearse them to thee in Truth and Allah means no injustice to any of His creatures. (3-10 -
Ironically, if we are in the middle of such a dispute and all parties are equally condemned, then you have just jumped into its middle and you too also are a party, in fact, a party with the greatest sword you have condemned not one group, but two groups. You are now disputing against both groups and condemning them to hell, ironically for merely debating on a controversial issue!
Peace,
Edip -
Ironically, if we are in the middle of such a dispute and all parties are equally condemned, then you have just jumped into its middle and you too also are a party, in fact, a party with the greatest sword you have condemned not one group, but two groups. You are now disputing against both groups and condemning them to hell, ironically for merely debating on a controversial issue!
Peace,
EdipPeace all;
It is not me who is condeming disputes in religions between submitters, but God is in 24-20 and 3-100 to 108 and may other verses.
When you dispute, you are underestimating God when He said that this Quran is a straight forward and easy to be understood. When belivers read God's words, they should say We Listened ad we Obey; Thus, Did you and Ayman heared that Dispute is not Good? Are you willing to Obey and stop your dispute?
You know my position in this dispute a) Code 19 is a sign of God; b) 9-128 and 9-129 are Quaraic verses.Peace
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^ I guess you share a different vision of "disputes" ... in that case, lakum deenukum.
Peace all,
Maxq, what do you vision from 24-20 and 3-100 to 108? Maybe you can correct my vision so we don't have to differ (dispute), and as a result, each would have a different deen, as you said above.
May God lead all of us to his Straight Path so we wouldn't differ.
Salam -
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What I understand by your earlier posts is that you seem to believe in everyone holding (or submitting to) the SAME opinion... If I am incorrect, then fine; I take my words back. But if I am accurate in describing your stance, then I beg to differ.
Peace all,
Do we have the right to choose our own opinion in Religion or not? Are we entitled to have our own opinion?
It is not fitting for a Believer, man or woman, when a matter has been decided by Allah and His Messenger, to have any option about their decision if anyone disobeys Allah and His Messenger he is indeed on a clearly wrong Path. (33-36)
when believer dispute in religion, they will have to use the Quran to Judge their dispute. And what ever the Quran says, they have to accept it.
Now, did God make his religion, in the Book, easy to be understood by every one, so there would be no room to differ or room for misguidence?
the answer is in 54-17, 22, 32, 40, and 44-58.What do you think, do I still have a wrong understanding (opinion)?
Peace -
Disputing is different from debating.
Here you have have two opposing views, one saying there is a mathematical code in the Quran and the other denying it.
I think what the verses you mention are saying is that if such an issue is taken, and instead of a meaningful discussion, the parties try to deface or be derogatory towards each other, or provoke towards having a fight, then yes that is what one must abstain from.
Regards
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I think what the verses you mention are saying is that if such an issue is taken, and instead of a meaningful discussion, the parties try to deface or be derogatory towards each other, or provoke towards having a fight, then yes that is what one must abstain from.
Regards
Peace all
Brother Maxq, please forgive me for asking these questions are you saying
that the debate between Shia, Suna, and True submitter (Quran followers) is Okay if they do not fight? are you saying that peacful debate that does not lead to fight is okay, even if it leads to dividing Moslems to sects?Please can you clairfy?
Salam -
Peace all, there is no argument nor is there any challenges regarding this matter; how I feel about it, if Rashad was here right now I will stomp his face in and put the knife to him my self. He has mislead mountin loads of you, except the faithful. The truth has come and falshood has perished. Falshood is always bound to perish.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597255.msg181595#msg181595 Check it out.
I am turing to my Lord, I do not like that which disapper.
I invite you to God in full disclousre me and whoever follows me. And glory be to God. And I am not of those who set up partners.
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the debate between Shia, Suna, and True submitter (Quran followers) is Okay if they do not fight? are you saying that peacful debate that does not lead to fight is okay, even if it leads to dividing Moslems to sects?
YES IT IS OK FROM WHAT I HAVE COME TO UNDERSTAND ... Wa Alaikum Salam.
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Salam Edip, all
I could not resist commenting on this linguistic error that lead to a translation error
This is what I read in the link
7435 This (NUMBER) is one of the GREATEST (KUBRA).
7436 A WARNING (NAZEER) for the PEOPLE (BASHAR).
the translation is verily (to those who like to translate inna) It is one of the kubar (plural of the feminine adjective kubra biggest).
"It" is feminine. It clearly points back to "sagar hell", already mentioned in verse 26, and then again in verse 42. The other "biggest" are the different hells (and are all feminine nouns). I cannot find another word for "number" that is feminine. Moreover, the theme is not the (ninteen that are over saqar) but saqar itself.
salam, as you i cannot resist as well,
7435 is not talking about the number it is talking about the miracle that is hidden,and in arabic the mo3jiza(miracle )is feminine, thats why it says INNAHA in other words its one of the bigger miracles.
7430 says 3ALAYHA tis3ata 3ashar
so in other words we can say INNAHA LI2A7DA LKUBAR 3ALAYHA TIS3ATA 3ASHAR, these are 2 verses in different spots of the chapter but go together.so i beleive that "the miracle" is the code 19 that is imbedded in the quran
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Peace Anna,
7435 is not talking about the number it is talking about the miracle that is hidden,and in arabic the mo3jiza(miracle )is feminine, thats why it says INNAHA in other words its one of the bigger miracles.
There is a slight problem. The word "mo3jiza" doesn't occur in Chapter 74. In fact, it NEVER occurs in the entire great reading.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace all, there is no argument nor is there any challenges regarding this matter; how I feel about it, if Rashad was here right now I will stomp his face in and put the knife to him my self. He has mislead mountin loads of you, except the faithful.
Peace all,
Anthony, Believers Obey God's Laws; one very important Law isThose who invoke not, with Allah, any other god, nor slay such life as Allah has made sacred, except by the Truth (by the True Laws of God), not commit fornication and any that does this (not only) meets punishment (25-6
And the true laws of Killing are
1- Self Defense
2-Eye for an EyeThus, you have no Quranic right to Kill any human soul except by these two laws. Therefore, please let us not make Saten make us say and do things aginest God's Laws if we truly Submitters.
YES IT IS OK FROM WHAT I HAVE COME TO UNDERSTAND ... Wa Alaikum Salam.
Maxq; according to God's Words, if we become Sects, we are Moshrikeen. And the Sin of Shirk is the oly Sin that God promised that He will not forgive. Thus, it is not OK to dispute and become Sects, according to God.
Turn ye back in repentance to Him, and fear Him establish regular prayers and be not ye among those who are Moshrikeen, (31) Those who split up their Religion, and become Sects each party rejoicing in that which is with itself! (30-32)
Can you note that in any dispute in Religion, each party is rejoicing in thier opinion.
Peace
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Peace Anna,
There is a slight problem. The word "mo3jiza" doesn't occur in Chapter 74. In fact, it NEVER occurs in the entire great reading.
Peace,
Ayman
salam
i never said it did, please read the post again.7435 This (MIRACLE) is one of the GREATEST (KUBAR).
this is the proper translation7430 (On it) nineteen this is the literal translation from arabic to english of that aya, but in quran it doesnt mean literally over it or on it, that aya is saying "3alayha" in other words the stamp of that miracle in 7435, which is the code 19.
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salam
i never said it did, please read the post again.7435 This (MIRACLE) is one of the GREATEST (KUBAR).
this is the proper translation7430 (On it) nineteen this is the literal translation from arabic to english of that aya, but in quran it doesnt mean literally over it or on it, that aya is saying "3alayha" in other words the stamp of that miracle in 7435, which is the code 19.
You did not say that, but you are even claiming that it is (this mu3jiza)one of the "greatest kubar". Says who?
So, what's the relation between "the miracle" and "ninteen"? What's the meaning then of "3alaiha tis3ata 3ashar"? It must be "3alal mu3jiza tis3ata 3ashar On the miracle are ninteen". Genius! How did the other supporters of the code did not come up with such an interpretation? Not even Dr. R.K himself!! -
You did not say that, but you are even claiming that it is (this mu3jiza)one of the "greatest kubar". Says who?
So, what's the relation between "the miracle" and "ninteen"? What's the meaning then of "3alaiha tis3ata 3ashar"? It must be "3alal mu3jiza tis3ata 3ashar On the miracle are ninteen". Genius! How did the other supporters of the code did not come up with such an interpretation? Not even Dr. R.K himself!!says who?..................god says it its an aya in the quran
the relation between the miracle and 19...........that the miracle itself is the code of 19 imbedded in the quran, this is what is hidden, if you read the beginning of that chapter
verses 1-7 talks about "the hidden"
8-10 talks about what will happen to those who do not beleive in "the hidden"
11-28 talks about mankind and the pride and ego, god gave us everything, always wanting more, yet we still dont beleive.
29 -again talks about the miracle
30 - talks about the code 19 that is embedded
31 talks about the confusion in the non believers understanding of that miracle,and the strengthening of beleif for those who beleive.
32-34 these verses are interesting because god swears by the moon and the night and the day that
35 - IT IS (miracle) one of the greatest
36 - a warner to mankind( here he speaks of bashar( the people, he hasn't specified any group but to all mankind )
then the rest of the chapter speaks of those who will believe and those who dont and the consequences(1)....and as we see today IT IS (MIRACLE) one of the greatest.
(2)....through this MIRACLE it has been proven that the quran IS gods word,
(3)......IT(THE MIRACLE)did clean the quran from these so called verses 9-128-129 as god says to "the hidden" 744-5 clean your garmnet and get rid of the bad, and thats exactley what the code did, not rashad khalifa but the code itself, that was put in the quran by god,rashad khalifa was the middle man, the code wasnt about sprout out of the quran by itself, nor was god going to come down and do it himself, so he assigned a messenger to show bring it to our attention.
(4).......IT (MIRACLE) has FINALLY brought us the true meaning after 1400 years being a mystery and called a miracle themselves, the alphbatical letters of the quran, beginning of the chapters.
(5) and this is the most important thing the miracle has done wether people want to beleive it or not, it has finally divided the world between believers and non beleivers, the line HAS BEEN DRAWN. we are finally as god says ta2ifatayn( 2 groups) those who beleive, those who dont
and samia with all due respect i am not a genius, but i am a true quran alone believer i do not use translations i do not use any books, i simply read quran alone.whatever god teachs me i learn and what he keeps from me now, he will teach it to me when he sees fit.
as for the other submitters well maybe they will see it now,everyone learns on there own pace. nooone picked up the quran and learned it all in one day. -
as for the other submitters well maybe they will see it now,everyone learns on there own pace. nooone picked up the quran and learned it all in one day.
Peace all,
I do not reject Code 19, but I reject deleting 9-128 & 129.
Do you agree with deleting 9-128 & 129?
Salam -
Peace all,
I do not reject Code 19, but I reject deleting 9-128 & 129.
Do you agree with deleting 9-128 & 129?
Salamsalam,
yes i do agree that they are not a part of the quran, but there was nothing deleted from gods word
the so called verse have blasphemy in it, god loves his messengers yes but he would never give them a title that belongs to him strictly even mohamad, verse 128 says mohamad is most compassionate most merciful, that is a title ONLY belonging to god, does not anyone ever wonder why, there was no bismillah in that chapter.
again thats why its important to beleive in the code and thats why god put it there so we do find the "rijis" added to quran, and thats exactley what rashad khalifa did. -
salam,
yes i do agree that they are not a part of the quran, but there was nothing deleted from gods word
the so called verse have blasphemy in it, god loves his messengers yes but he would never give them a title that belongs to him strictly even mohamad, verse 128 says mohamad is most compassionate most merciful, that is a title ONLY belonging to god, does not anyone ever wonder why, there was no bismillah in that chapter.
again thats why its important to beleive in the code and thats why god put it there so we do find the "rijis" added to quran, and thats exactley what rashad khalifa did.Salam all,
No body can delete or add verses to God's Book; When God promises us that He (not angels nor prophets) will gaured the Quran, we should believe that He will keep his promis. otherwise a) we will believe in the stoning verse as a Quranic verse (become Moshrkeen); b) and we will disblieve in 9-128 & 129 (Become Koffaar).My advise to you is DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE GOD's PROMISE; otherwise, in the Judgment Day, no one will back you up in your disblieveing of the two verses; But the ones who choose to not delete them (or add the stonning verse) they are protacted and backed up by
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We have, without doubt sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption). (9)
for further information, please read the following thread (there are asweres to all your questions, including answeres for this one"god loves his messengers yes but he would never give them a title that belongs to him strictly even mohamad)
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9596697.105
Salam