Got som important Questions about Adultery?
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salam siki. i searched the quran for the instances of the word haram and harraumun. i find no instance where it is used in connection with extra marital sex. knowing that the term zani wa zanit, and zina, relate to prostitution, i understand that this is what allah wishes, so it is my wish too, that prostitution is an abhorrent practice.
on the other hand, knowing that polygyny is permitted, a momin would need to be permitted contact with women he is not married to, if he is to seek out a relationship with them, this is quite reasonable. what the quran does prohibit is secret relationships, however open relationships are permitted. therefore if a momin has an open relationship with a mominah, i find no condemnation of their relationship in the quran.
having said that, we are aware that the wives of muhammad, were specifically warned in the quran, to conform their behavoir, to obey their husband, muhammad. it does not surprise me to find many women today in open rebellion to the word of allah. i believe allah is aware that women have unique needs, have great difficulty with submitting in humility, and for this reason allah has imposed on them the headovering rule, the primacy of husband rule, and provided examples of rebellious women and his caution to them.
the issue of extra marital sex appears to have originated in victorian england, and was transmitted to the colonies of england. at different times england governed parts of arabia, and attempted to impose their victorian philosophies on arabia. victorian philosophies were so ridiculous they caused mental breakdowns in people and one can argue that the practice of psychology was nurtured by the large number of people made mentall ill by victorian philosophies. to me victorian and western philosophies and opinions are completely rejected as complete paganism. i find there is a correlation between western influence, whether a person resides in a western country, or is a convert from a western religion, and their opposition to islamic concepts such as polgyny, and the primacy of the husband in marriage.
allah is the truth.
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salam AlArf,
lets leave aside polygyne, It is permitted ,
GOd does not prohibit contact between a Momin and a Momina , provided they have something righteous to discuss, or may be they wana get to know eack other better before a proposal is initiated to ensure compatability. But i think what you are proposing is checking out sexual compatibility, or may be , body chemistry ? weather it works or not? Are you saying that?
please clarify before we proceed further.
peacesiki
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Al Arf, salam
I do not agree with your understanding of Zani and Zania to be prostitutes, But i have my mind open for any new understanding, and i am afraid uptill now what ever evidence you have provided is insufficient to prove your understanding.
what do you understand of 24-33
Those who cannot afford to get married shall maintain morality until GOD provides for them from His grace. Those among your servants who wish to be freed in order to marry, you shall grant them their wish, once you realize that they are honest. And give them from GOD's money that He has bestowed upon you. You shall not force your girls to commit prostitution, seeking the materials of this world, if they wish to be chaste. If anyone forces them, then GOD, seeing that they are forced, is Forgiver, Merciful.
siki
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salam liquidharma. assuming you dont take the words of allah as a joke and a mockery, where you find compelled to insert either a picture or text mocking the serious discourse of the quran. you claim.
Araf, I think you make the mistake of assuming that God is an arab. That would be why you revere medieval arab culture and presume exploitative customs are divinely ordained.
Of course, Allah has no race and the abusive customs of primitive societies are not divinely ordained. So stop trying to rationalise medieval male promiscuity.
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salam liquiddharma. when you are deprived of your tools of mockery, pictures, what emerges is your revulsion for what is divinely ordained.
think you make the mistake of assuming that God is an arab
the belief that god could appear in human form is christian blasphemy, transubstantiation. you mouth this concept because you believe it to be possible. i, however, being muslim, utterly reject such nonsense. there is nothing wrong with being an arab.
you revere medieval arab culture
the revulsion of everything medieval is a christian attitude, indeed medieval christianity was a revolting time in christianity. however, medieval islam was no different to modern islam, there is no such difference in islam. your attempt to foist your christian prejudices on islam is projection and exposes your thoughts.
presume exploitative customs are divinely ordained
submission to the will of allah, to you, would read "allah has imposed an exploitative custom on you" i suppose having to pray, giving charity, going on pilgrimage are all divinely ordained exploitative customs.
in summation, you are polluted with medieval christian concepts of islam.
allah is the truth.
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salam siki. we are in agreement that polygyny is lawful in islam.
or may be they wana get to know eack other better before a proposal is initiated to ensure compatability. But i think what you are proposing is checking out sexual compatibility, or may be , body chemistry ? weather it works or not? Are you saying that?
brother, i have looked for an answer to this question myself. i must report to you the truth, the truth is allah has not given an answer to your question in the quran.
if i leave you here, you will think maybe he knows something that he is not saying, and you would be correct. allah has given us the torah, injeel, and the quran. in these books, allah has stated the laws for mankind. if allahs leaves something out of his laws, allah is the most wise, then allah does not wish it to be regulated. because allah has not included in his laws, any restriction on "checking out sexual compatibility" or "body chemistry" or "whether it works or not" then it is the wish of allah not to regulate such things, and we who are on the path of allah, should do the same and not seek to regulate these things. i hope this answers your question. may allah protect me from error.
allah is the lawgiver.
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salam siki. i believe this is a far more broad prohibition. for example a parent is prohibited on forcing their child to marry someone they find obnoxious. the category is very broad. not as narrow as you suggest.
allah is the truth
salam .al arf
I think, that you speek/understand arabic very well, and seem like an intelligent man.
kindly ponder over this ayah very throughly. ... Because this does not covey what you have qouted above , this specifically conveys Prostitution and if you still have the same opionion, tell me how? and we can sort it out.
So if this is how Allaha conveys prostitution, then why are you mixing it up with Zina ?
siki
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if i leave you here, you will think maybe he knows something that he is not saying, and you would be correct. allah has given us the torah, injeel, and the quran. in these books, allah has stated the laws for mankind. if allahs leaves something out of his laws, allah is the most wise, then allah does not wish it to be regulated. because allah has not included in his laws, any restriction on "checking out sexual compatibility" or "body chemistry" or "whether it works or not" then it is the wish of allah not to regulate such things, and we who are on the path of allah, should do the same and not seek to regulate these things. i hope this answers your question. may allah protect me from error.
allah is the lawgiver.
There are quite a few issues where there is no direct command of prohibition, and that you have to deduce Allaha's will in an indirct way.
To start with what do you understand by the term Azwaj, and what do you make out of 70-29.30 ,
And they protect their private parts , except from their Azwaj, and Ma Malakat Amnakum
siki
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salam siki. you ask me.
So if this is how Allaha conveys prostitution, then why are you mixing it up with Zina ?
albagha, obnoxious things, are a supercategory. there are many things that are obnoxious, backbiting, slander, drunkenness, and prostitution. they all fall in this supercategory. zina, prostitution, is a subcategory. there is only one thing that is prostitution, only this falls in this subcategory. backbiting, slander, and drunkenness are not zina.
you can say zina is baghees, you cannot say all baghees are zina. there are times allah wishes to talk about a broad supercategory of issues. there are times when allah wishes to talk about a narrow subcategory of issues. therefore, this is not mixing it up, this is understanding the categories.
allah is the truth.
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salam siki. you ask me.
albagha, obnoxious things, are a supercategory. there are many things that are obnoxious, backbiting, slander, drunkenness, and prostitution. they all fall in this supercategory. zina, prostitution, is a subcategory. there is only one thing that is prostitution, only this falls in this subcategory. backbiting, slander, and drunkenness are not zina.
Al Arf salam
I have absolutely no problem in agreeing with your understanding of the above Quote.
salam siki. you ask me.
you can say zina is baghees, you cannot say all baghees are zina. there are times allah wishes to talk about a broad supercategory of issues. there are times when allah wishes to talk about a narrow subcategory of issues. therefore, this is not mixing it up, this is understanding the categories.
allah is the truth.
I understand what you are saying, But i am talking about precision, absolute precision here.
As you seem to know, how arabic works , so, you shall be able to make out if you ponder over the last three sentences of this aya.
siki
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salam siki. you mention the last three verses of this aya. and did not identify the verses of the aya.
english chapter = arabic sura, english verses = arabic aya or ayaat.
how can there be three verses of an aya. this makes no sense, explain yourself. you are saying there are three aya of an aya.
allah is the truth.
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As you seem to know, how arabic works , so, you shall be able to make out if you ponder over the last three sentences of this aya.
siki
Those who cannot afford to get married shall maintain morality until GOD provides for them from His grace. Those among your servants who wish to be freed in order to marry, you shall grant them their wish, once you realize that they are honest. And give them from GOD's money that He has bestowed upon you. You shall not force your girls to commit prostitution, seeking the materials of this world, if they wish to be chaste. If anyone forces them, then GOD, seeing that they are forced, is Forgiver, Merciful.
siki
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salam liquiddharma. when you are deprived of your tools of mockery, pictures, what emerges is your revulsion for what is divinely ordained.
the belief that god could appear in human form is christian blasphemy, transubstantiation. you mouth this concept because you believe it to be possible. i, however, being muslim, utterly reject such nonsense. there is nothing wrong with being an arab.
the revulsion of everything medieval is a christian attitude, indeed medieval christianity was a revolting time in christianity. however, medieval islam was no different to modern islam, there is no such difference in islam. your attempt to foist your christian prejudices on islam is projection and exposes your thoughts.
submission to the will of allah, to you, would read "allah has imposed an exploitative custom on you" i suppose having to pray, giving charity, going on pilgrimage are all divinely ordained exploitative customs.No, only slavery - be it based upon race or sex. And that's why your ideas are so ugly. There's nothing wrong with being arab, but there is something wrong with believing only one language/culture has all the ideas that every have value in all of time. Especially when they lead you to think male promiscuity is divinely ordained. Because, the fact is, that without sexual self-discipline, religion has very little value. So when you try and frame arguments based on the quran to undermine male sexual morality, your screwing up completely. Entirely. Absolutely. I can't help making jokes about it when your ideas are a joke.
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salam liquiddharma. again, your medieval christian reasoning rears its ignorant head.
No, only slavery - be it based upon race or sex
it is christians who have enslaved people based on race and sex. to this day christians cannot let go of their race and gender based slavery notions.
when they lead you to think male promiscuity is divinely ordained
given the number of christian single mothers, christian children without fathers, and christian men who abandon their children, it appears that christians believe promoscuity is divinely ordained.
when you try and frame arguments based on the quran to undermine male sexual morality
more christian jibberish. if you were better educated you would know morality is created by men, and subjective. morality is a pagan law. the quran rejects all pagan laws.
I can't help making jokes about it when your ideas are a joke
you cant help making jokes, because that is your avocation, a clown.
allah is the truth.
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salam siki. i am going to guess as to what you are asking me. the best guess i have is you want to know what this means.
You shall not force your girls to commit prostitution, seeking the materials of this world, if they wish to be chaste. If anyone forces them, then GOD, seeing that they are forced, is Forgiver, Merciful
2433 in part ...
do not browbeat your young to the obnoxious, when they wish to be good, if they were browbeaten and altered with wordly goods, allah is after such dissaproval forgiving merciful.
these last three sentences are clear dissaproval of allah of browbeating the young into the obnoxious with wealth. both the browbeater and the young who were altered are both dissaproved, however allah may forgive what happened before, this is clear warning not to do this after being told not to do so in this verse. i believe forgiving and mercy in this verse is for those who did not know of this verse before, now that they know it, the forgiveness and mercy may not apply to them if they violate the command not to browbeat with promises of wealth.
there are households in which parents force their children into marraiges with promises of wealth and ease, and in some cases the parents benefit with gifts as well. i believe allah prohibits this practice and calls it obnoxious.
allah is the lawgiver.
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'Christians' and 'Muslims' are not homogeneous collective entities capable of enslaving anyone. It is individual people who happen to be Christian or Muslims who commit crimes including slavery. It just so happens that western countries abolished slavery long, long before the arab world, and the belief held by many Muslims that the Quran allows slavery is partly responsible for this, and your belief that men and women are not equal is pretty close to it.
I live in a Christian society, but I haven't personally never met a Christian who thinks promiscuity is divinely ordained. So I think you're going to have to keep that specialness to yourself.
Morality isn't a 'pagan law' - try learning the English Language.
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salam liquiddharma. yes, you should not be allowed to have slaves, we on the other hand may have slaves, we know how to treat another human being.
christian and western societies implemented race and gender based slavery. muslim societies never had this kind of nonsense. christian and western societies brutalized their slaves selling off their children, raping them, torturing them. muslims never behaved in this savage manner with their slaves, on the contrary most slaves were considered respectable members of the family as those the right hand possess.
your myopic world view living in a western christian country which fills your ears with your supposed superiority, is condemned by the fact that you cannot act decently to another human being, as a result of which you had to outlaw slavery. muslim countries dont abuse slaves as a result of which no draconian laws are needed to regulate slavery.
little does your small minded world view inform you that the guardians of the prophets mosque and the haram sharif are descendants of the slave, belal, who was chosen by muhammad to lead the first call to prayer. in our world slaves are honorable decent human beings, unlike your pathetic excuse for the maltreatment you call your enlightenment.
spare me your arrogance. go bang your drum somewhere else. i for one am not impressed.
allah is the way and the light.