Got som important Questions about Adultery?
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Al Araf, yes, submission to God leaves no room for disputing the will of God. Luckily, God has never told me to do anything unjust, so I don't have to worry about there being a conflict between God's will and natural justice, the way ancient philosophers did. However, human beings do many unjust things, and when they do, it goes against the principles of Islam, regardless of whether or not they try and justify it by the Quran, or Hadiths, or any other source.
Regarding the 'inheritance of women' - of course the Quran does not 'establish' this - it was already established by Ancient Arab societies, they loved slavery and treating women as slaves. The Quran merely talks in their language, and in 419 it forbids the practice of taking people (specifically women) against their will.
So in fact, by ignoring the meaning of the verse and pretending that the Quran 'establishes' the 'inheritance of women' - when it does the opposite, you are going 180 degrees against the Quran. You are completely defying everything the Prophet recited and taught. That is the innovation Islam condemns, twisting the righteousness and justice of the Quran to support evil.
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Al Arf , salam.
Sincerely defending polygyne (in another thread), confused but advocating F...ing arouund with other than the legal/contracted mates ???
hmm Gives impression of someone who wants to keep both hands and mouth full, eat and yet wanna avail plenty out there in the bush too. ;D come on brother dont be that greedy >D
peace
siki -
salam liquidharma. assuming you dont take the words of allah as a joke and a mockery, where you find compelled to insert either a picture or text mocking the serious discourse of the quran. you claim.
The Quran merely talks in their language, and in 419 it forbids the practice of taking people (specifically women) against their will.
419 states
the term tartuwa comes from the root warat, which means inherit. which means the prohibition is on "inheriting women" against her will. not "taking people (specifically) women against their will, as you falsely claim" the word for prohibited in arabic is harramun, and it does not exist in that verse. therefore your claim "it forbids" is false.
i suspect arabic is not your mother tongue, and that english is your mother tongue. apparently you rely on alleged translations to draw your conclusions. compounding the problem is you lack the critical intellectual skills neccesary to evaluate the meaning of a verse. this is obvious from the fact your conclusions are not consistent with the actual language of the verse.
an example of your shortcomings in intellectual capacity is similar to the following if someone tells you. the grass on the ground is green, your weak intellect has you concluding the ground is green, instead of the correct conclusion which is the grass is green. i have seen this issue with your posts in other threads as well. please come to the debate with an adequate intellect.
allah is the truth.
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salam siki. this post of yours is disrespectful and childish, unworthy of you.
Sincerely defending polygyne (in another thread), but advocating F...ing arouund with other than the legal/contracted mates Gives impression of someone who wants to keep both hands and mouth full, and yet wanna avail plenty out there in the bush too. come on brother dont be that greedy
i defend what allah has established, polygyny, and do not add to the quran. if you want to add to the quran by creating your rules, then you answer to allah on the day of judgment for your actions. i will not lie or mislead people by making false claims.
what impression you or others get from the rules established by allah, is really not my concern. if you wish to insult or demean the rules of allah by calling them greedy, you can answer to allah for your actions there too. you personal opinions of the rules established by allah, have no place in a discussion of the quran.
if your problem is, that you cannot find a verse that prohibits extra marital sex in certain instances, i suggest you change your views to become more quranic, rather than make rude remarks.
allah is the lawgiver.
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AlArf salam
There is absolutely no doubt regarding polygyne in the book, It is permitted , and i have the same opinion as what you have.
But permitting extra marital sex, Are you serious?Ok no more jokes, lets tackle it seriously. How did you draw that conclusion?
siki
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salam siki. i searched the quran for the instances of the word haram and harraumun. i find no instance where it is used in connection with extra marital sex. knowing that the term zani wa zanit, and zina, relate to prostitution, i understand that this is what allah wishes, so it is my wish too, that prostitution is an abhorrent practice.
on the other hand, knowing that polygyny is permitted, a momin would need to be permitted contact with women he is not married to, if he is to seek out a relationship with them, this is quite reasonable. what the quran does prohibit is secret relationships, however open relationships are permitted. therefore if a momin has an open relationship with a mominah, i find no condemnation of their relationship in the quran.
having said that, we are aware that the wives of muhammad, were specifically warned in the quran, to conform their behavoir, to obey their husband, muhammad. it does not surprise me to find many women today in open rebellion to the word of allah. i believe allah is aware that women have unique needs, have great difficulty with submitting in humility, and for this reason allah has imposed on them the headovering rule, the primacy of husband rule, and provided examples of rebellious women and his caution to them.
the issue of extra marital sex appears to have originated in victorian england, and was transmitted to the colonies of england. at different times england governed parts of arabia, and attempted to impose their victorian philosophies on arabia. victorian philosophies were so ridiculous they caused mental breakdowns in people and one can argue that the practice of psychology was nurtured by the large number of people made mentall ill by victorian philosophies. to me victorian and western philosophies and opinions are completely rejected as complete paganism. i find there is a correlation between western influence, whether a person resides in a western country, or is a convert from a western religion, and their opposition to islamic concepts such as polgyny, and the primacy of the husband in marriage.
allah is the truth.
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salam AlArf,
lets leave aside polygyne, It is permitted ,
GOd does not prohibit contact between a Momin and a Momina , provided they have something righteous to discuss, or may be they wana get to know eack other better before a proposal is initiated to ensure compatability. But i think what you are proposing is checking out sexual compatibility, or may be , body chemistry ? weather it works or not? Are you saying that?
please clarify before we proceed further.
peacesiki
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Al Arf, salam
I do not agree with your understanding of Zani and Zania to be prostitutes, But i have my mind open for any new understanding, and i am afraid uptill now what ever evidence you have provided is insufficient to prove your understanding.
what do you understand of 24-33
Those who cannot afford to get married shall maintain morality until GOD provides for them from His grace. Those among your servants who wish to be freed in order to marry, you shall grant them their wish, once you realize that they are honest. And give them from GOD's money that He has bestowed upon you. You shall not force your girls to commit prostitution, seeking the materials of this world, if they wish to be chaste. If anyone forces them, then GOD, seeing that they are forced, is Forgiver, Merciful.
siki
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salam liquidharma. assuming you dont take the words of allah as a joke and a mockery, where you find compelled to insert either a picture or text mocking the serious discourse of the quran. you claim.
Araf, I think you make the mistake of assuming that God is an arab. That would be why you revere medieval arab culture and presume exploitative customs are divinely ordained.
Of course, Allah has no race and the abusive customs of primitive societies are not divinely ordained. So stop trying to rationalise medieval male promiscuity.
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salam liquiddharma. when you are deprived of your tools of mockery, pictures, what emerges is your revulsion for what is divinely ordained.
think you make the mistake of assuming that God is an arab
the belief that god could appear in human form is christian blasphemy, transubstantiation. you mouth this concept because you believe it to be possible. i, however, being muslim, utterly reject such nonsense. there is nothing wrong with being an arab.
you revere medieval arab culture
the revulsion of everything medieval is a christian attitude, indeed medieval christianity was a revolting time in christianity. however, medieval islam was no different to modern islam, there is no such difference in islam. your attempt to foist your christian prejudices on islam is projection and exposes your thoughts.
presume exploitative customs are divinely ordained
submission to the will of allah, to you, would read "allah has imposed an exploitative custom on you" i suppose having to pray, giving charity, going on pilgrimage are all divinely ordained exploitative customs.
in summation, you are polluted with medieval christian concepts of islam.
allah is the truth.
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salam siki. we are in agreement that polygyny is lawful in islam.
or may be they wana get to know eack other better before a proposal is initiated to ensure compatability. But i think what you are proposing is checking out sexual compatibility, or may be , body chemistry ? weather it works or not? Are you saying that?
brother, i have looked for an answer to this question myself. i must report to you the truth, the truth is allah has not given an answer to your question in the quran.
if i leave you here, you will think maybe he knows something that he is not saying, and you would be correct. allah has given us the torah, injeel, and the quran. in these books, allah has stated the laws for mankind. if allahs leaves something out of his laws, allah is the most wise, then allah does not wish it to be regulated. because allah has not included in his laws, any restriction on "checking out sexual compatibility" or "body chemistry" or "whether it works or not" then it is the wish of allah not to regulate such things, and we who are on the path of allah, should do the same and not seek to regulate these things. i hope this answers your question. may allah protect me from error.
allah is the lawgiver.
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salam siki. i believe this is a far more broad prohibition. for example a parent is prohibited on forcing their child to marry someone they find obnoxious. the category is very broad. not as narrow as you suggest.
allah is the truth
salam .al arf
I think, that you speek/understand arabic very well, and seem like an intelligent man.
kindly ponder over this ayah very throughly. ... Because this does not covey what you have qouted above , this specifically conveys Prostitution and if you still have the same opionion, tell me how? and we can sort it out.
So if this is how Allaha conveys prostitution, then why are you mixing it up with Zina ?
siki
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if i leave you here, you will think maybe he knows something that he is not saying, and you would be correct. allah has given us the torah, injeel, and the quran. in these books, allah has stated the laws for mankind. if allahs leaves something out of his laws, allah is the most wise, then allah does not wish it to be regulated. because allah has not included in his laws, any restriction on "checking out sexual compatibility" or "body chemistry" or "whether it works or not" then it is the wish of allah not to regulate such things, and we who are on the path of allah, should do the same and not seek to regulate these things. i hope this answers your question. may allah protect me from error.
allah is the lawgiver.
There are quite a few issues where there is no direct command of prohibition, and that you have to deduce Allaha's will in an indirct way.
To start with what do you understand by the term Azwaj, and what do you make out of 70-29.30 ,
And they protect their private parts , except from their Azwaj, and Ma Malakat Amnakum
siki
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salam siki. you ask me.
So if this is how Allaha conveys prostitution, then why are you mixing it up with Zina ?
albagha, obnoxious things, are a supercategory. there are many things that are obnoxious, backbiting, slander, drunkenness, and prostitution. they all fall in this supercategory. zina, prostitution, is a subcategory. there is only one thing that is prostitution, only this falls in this subcategory. backbiting, slander, and drunkenness are not zina.
you can say zina is baghees, you cannot say all baghees are zina. there are times allah wishes to talk about a broad supercategory of issues. there are times when allah wishes to talk about a narrow subcategory of issues. therefore, this is not mixing it up, this is understanding the categories.
allah is the truth.
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salam siki. you ask me.
albagha, obnoxious things, are a supercategory. there are many things that are obnoxious, backbiting, slander, drunkenness, and prostitution. they all fall in this supercategory. zina, prostitution, is a subcategory. there is only one thing that is prostitution, only this falls in this subcategory. backbiting, slander, and drunkenness are not zina.
Al Arf salam
I have absolutely no problem in agreeing with your understanding of the above Quote.
salam siki. you ask me.
you can say zina is baghees, you cannot say all baghees are zina. there are times allah wishes to talk about a broad supercategory of issues. there are times when allah wishes to talk about a narrow subcategory of issues. therefore, this is not mixing it up, this is understanding the categories.
allah is the truth.
I understand what you are saying, But i am talking about precision, absolute precision here.
As you seem to know, how arabic works , so, you shall be able to make out if you ponder over the last three sentences of this aya.
siki
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salam siki. you mention the last three verses of this aya. and did not identify the verses of the aya.
english chapter = arabic sura, english verses = arabic aya or ayaat.
how can there be three verses of an aya. this makes no sense, explain yourself. you are saying there are three aya of an aya.
allah is the truth.