What is the difference between "Nissa, Amraat and Azwaj"
-
Last point Rajul / Rijal is an ACTIVE PARTICIPLE, it has no gender! Please clearify this statement. Are you implying here that , is a participle and is seperate, so what is it?
We are discussing the Quran NOT linguistic use of words but Quranic understanding and relevance of a Quranic term NOT linguistic terms based upon dialects and usage.. Please clearify this what do you mean. Are you implying that one does not need to understand the language i.e., lexical concepts and grammar to understand Quran? Thanks.
You have still not expounded the query of Medda on Alif in Nissa used meaning woman verse Nissa used in 41 without Medda. Thanks.
BADAR
-
Last point Rajul / Rijal is an ACTIVE PARTICIPLE, it has no gender! Please clearify this statement. Are you implying here that , is a participle and is seperate, so what is it?
We are discussing the Quran NOT linguistic use of words but Quranic understanding and relevance of a Quranic term NOT linguistic terms based upon dialects and usage.. Please clearify this what do you mean. Are you implying that one does not need to understand the language i.e., lexical concepts and grammar to understand Quran? Thanks.
You have still not expounded the query of Medda on Alif in Nissa used meaning woman verse Nissa used in 41 without Medda. Thanks.
BADAR
Assalaam Alaikum Badar
Im sorry, but you are all over the place.
Rajul / Rijal is NOT in Sura 4.1 its
One is an active participle the other a 'broken plural' noun, in essence one a verb the other a noun
Two different words, same root, different words, one a verb other a noun
Badar, I dont have a clue as to what your referring to, there is no alif madda with
Alif madda, , is used when a sustained 'a' sound occurs at the BEGINNING of a word
Sura 4.1 Nisa'a / has an extended alif / at the END of the word NOT beginning.
Again we discussing the Quran NOT Lexical linguistic usage.
-
Please take the time and energy to research the 'context' through the language of the Quran. The Quran will confirm the context.
Then lets talk.
When your ready, just post your understanding.
Again as you know by now, I dont argue english translations or interpretations.
Yes I know, you are too proud to admit a mistake. Nothing to argue, you posted a clear contradiction; azwajukum in context of 412 cannot be spouses both males and females; e.g.
A woman dies leaving a husband, no children ? what do we give him, ? or ??
an-Nisa' (Women) 412
Walakum nisfu ma taraka azwajukum in lam yakun lahunna waladun fa-in kana lahunna waladun falakumu alrrubuAAu mimma tarakna min baAAdi wasiyyatin yooseena biha aw daynin walahunna alrrubuAAu mimma taraktum in lam yakun lakum waladun fa-in kana lakum waladun falahunna alththumunu mimma taraktum min baAAdi wasiyyatin toosoona biha aw daynin wa-in kana rajulun yoorathu kalalatan awi imraatun walahu akhun aw okhtun falikulli wahidin minhuma alssudusu fa-in kanoo akthara min thalika fahum shurakao fee alththuluthi min baAAdi wasiyyatin yoosa biha aw daynin ghayra mudarrin wasiyyatan mina Allahi waAllahu AAaleemun haleemunAs stated earlier, the best meaning is derived within context of verses and triangulated/cross referenced within the entire Quran which cannot contradict itself ? another example where spouses contradicts...
3722-23 Gather those who were unjust/oppressive and their spouses (waazwajahum), and what they were worshipping from other than God, so guide them to the hell's way.
A better definition of azwajahum above is ?their cohorts/partners? in oppression not ?spouses? which implies quilt by marriage and of course contradicts rest of Quran....
6611 And God gave an example to those who believe, Pharaoh's woman (wife) when she said "My Lord build for me at You a home in the Paradise and save/rescue me from Pharaoh and his deed, and save/rescue me from the nation the unjust/oppressive."
Below is my understanding of the inheritance verses which I did take the time and energy to research in ?context? and anyone is welcome to find one contradiction case...
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=16179.msg177780#msg177780
482 So do they not consider The Qur?an, and if (it) were from at other than God, they would have found in it many contradictions.
This will unfortunately be my last post on free-minds for a while. It?s been wonderful knowing everyone these past two years and would have liked to meet in person/share a smile ? perhaps one day...
In the blessed and ease treed paradises
On sofas facing each other
Being circled around on them with a cup to drink wine from goodness
White delight to the drinking
Intoxication not in it, nor they be exhausted from it
And at them the eye's confining big beautiful eyes...Peace
-
azwajakum / azwajahum again means mates, its plural. Kum / Hum are masculine plural pronouns, when attached to a noun or verb they refer to BOTH males and Females.
-
This will unfortunately be my last post on free-minds for a while. It?s been wonderful knowing everyone these past two years and would have liked to meet in person/share a smile ? perhaps one day...
Salam,
Sorry to here that Nun de plume. You will be missed.
Salam,
Arnab -
412 In what your wives (Azwajukum) leave, your share is a half, if they leave no child; but if they leave a child, ye get a fourth; after payment of legacies and debts. In what ye leave, their share is a fourth, if ye leave no child; but if ye leave a child, they get an eighth; after payment of legacies and debts. ....
So, it means that zoaj/azwaj are only wife/wives. The term does not convey spouse/spouses.
siki
Any comments from anybody against this understanding (other than MTR)
siki
-
This will unfortunately be my last post on free-minds for a while. It?s been wonderful knowing everyone these past two years and would have liked to meet in person/share a smile ? perhaps one day...
What happened? are you moving to some remote village?
siki -
Any comments from anybody against this understanding (other than MTR)
siki
Allah, subhana wata ala is 'against' any 'understanding' that perverts and corrupts Allah's kalam.
-
Allah, subhana wata ala is 'against' any 'understanding' that perverts and corrupts Allah's kalam.
hmm hmm where to begin....
-
This will unfortunately be my last post on free-minds for a while. It?s been wonderful knowing everyone these past two years and would have liked to meet in person/share a smile ? perhaps one day...
In the blessed and ease treed paradises
On sofas facing each other
Being circled around on them with a cup to drink wine from goodness
White delight to the drinking
Intoxication not in it, nor they be exhausted from it
And at them the eye's confining big beautiful eyes...Peace
Salaam Nun,
I am sure you have valid reason to take a leave from this forum for a while but it is making me sad. It is making me sad as you know how much I have valued your contributions and frequently called for your help, especially when the subject involved complicated mathemitical calulations or deep research.
My brother I pray that God answer all your prayers and, though it is unlikely, that I may meet you in person as we live in different corners of the world, but then there is also the beyond, so I hope to meet you one day in the best of surroundings.
You are such a genuine person and its doesn't take much to reccognise a fellow believer, so it would be nice to hear from you on PM.Best of my regards to you and your family.
Farida
-
Im sorry, but you are all over the place. No I am trying to piece it together.
One is an active participle the other a 'broken plural' noun, in essence one a verb the other a noun
Are you implying that Rajul is a verb and Rijal a broken plural of a noun. If it is so, please explain the meanings of Rajul as a verb and give singular of broken plural noun Rijal.
As regards Alif with Medda in Nissa. It is the last Alif in nissa and not in begining. Please see the rule for making/changing gender of a noun to feminine. Alif with Medda and Ayn in the end is needed. Please see below Wright's Grammar most respected in English. Actual page of book is Vol 1 pp179. Scaned PDF page 97/166 so please scroll down to 97/166.
http//www.ghazali.org/arabic/WrightArabicGrammarVol1.pdf
Your are just using most likely Arabic online as referance, below, hence not comprehending what I am saying.http//arabic.tripod.com/Nouns1d.htm#Feminine%20Markers
Please look at both then comment. Thanks.
Badar
-
Badar, Again, your NOT accepting the grammatical reference. I gave you the arabic grammatical term for BOTH 'extended alif' / and 'broken plural' /
Badar, again, Alif madda, , is used when a sustained 'a' sound occurs at the BEGINNING of a word
the 'extended alif' / is at the END of the word
Again, Rijal is an ACTIVE PARTICIPLE, denotes an action associated with a verb, which indicates you need a doer & subject/object of the action or activity
Once again, Rijalan / is a 'broken plural' / NOUN not a verb. without the feminine marker its masculine and means 'Men', period.
There is NO Arabic feminine word using the root construct of Rijal or Rajul its NOT in the Quran, its NOT used in Modern Standard Arabic, it MAY exist in certain Arabic dialects.
Again, it's NOT grammatically referenced in the Quran.
-
Thanks brother for your reply. However, it seems you did not bother to look at referance from Wright. With your knowledge of grammar in view I did not think that I needed to explain the difference between and alif with Medda. But may be you have accepted "Arabic on line and Dr. Abdullah Abbas Nadwi initial publication of "Learn The Language of The Holy Quran" as ultimate authority.
Finally in this part of verse 41 , which is the verb or action that denotes to? Thanks.
Badar
-
Thanks brother for your reply. However, it seems you did not bother to look at referance from Wright. With your knowledge of grammar in view I did not think that I needed to explain the difference between and alif with Medda. But may be you have accepted "Arabic on line and Dr. Abdullah Abbas Nadwi initial publication of "Learn The Language of The Holy Quran" as ultimate authority.
Finally in this part of verse 41 , which is the verb or action that denotes to? Thanks.
Badar
the Active Participle is NOT in Sura 4.1.
the Noun is in Sura 4.1, is nunation using tanwiinu alfatahati / , which makes the word indefinite.
Again, is a 'broken plural' with tanwiinu alfatahati / which indicates that the word is fully declinable, thus the gender of the noun in this case will match the gender of its singular Rajulun, meaning 'Man'.
Thus grammatically speaking, the Noun, in its fully declinable state, can not mean women or female.
Research 'Declension'
-
Thanks brother you have added something more to the mix about[ , let me do my research about it before responding.
While I do that, the rule about Alif WHEN it is properly considered female, states it be written as Alif with Madda on it followed by Ayan . In this case it becomes substansive and it is not called a letter, i.e., one does not prefix to it a word [. Based on this rule what do you make out of in 41. Thanks.
Badar
-
Thanks brother you have added something more to the mix about[ , let me do my research about it before responding.
While I do that, the rule about Alif WHEN it is properly considered female, states it be written as Alif with Madda on it followed by Ayan . In this case it becomes substansive and it is not called a letter, i.e., one does not prefix to it a word [. Based on this rule what do you make out of in 41. Thanks.
Badar
Badar, we have been through this several times Bro. does NOT Have alif-medda.
-
Yes I know, it has not. Since it has no female marker and hence, can not be considered feminine by form. Therefore, does not stand for female/females.
Badar
confused Badar, is the FEMININE MARKER attached to thus it emphatically means 'Women'
-
confused Badar, is the FEMININE MARKER attached to thus it emphatically means 'Women'
This rule applies to the singular, not the plural.
How about, for example (scientists/people of knowledge; names; directors)?
Thus grammatically speaking, the Noun, in its fully declinable state, can not mean women or female.
What does grammar have to do in deciding the meaning of a word? confused
What about what we have discussed earlier regarding this word? Why are you still insisting that it cannot be speaking of females?Yes I know, it has not. Since it has no female marker and hence, can not be considered feminine by form. Therefore, does not stand for female/females.
This is not correct a deduction. A word with a feminine marker ( ) does not necessarily have a feminine meaning ( ). Example
Aantara name of a mythical male warrier; exams/test (plural of imti7an , a masculine singular)