Muhammad is a White Man?

progod

MTR,

Progod...

The indigenous population of Senegal, Tooba and various other regions are NOT speaking 'Arabic'...

They speak Woloof and dialects related to Woloof NOT 'Arabic'

'Arabic' is NOT Woloof, yet its used as a 'common' language, just like english or swahili

Again, Speak what you KNOW not what you THINK

Ok, either you don't speak English well or you can't read very well.

The indigenous population of Senegal, Tooba and various other regions are NOT speaking 'Arabic'...

First of all Tooba is in Senegal, I think you know this already but this sentence belies your understanding. Secondly some Senegalese do speak Arabic. if they don't speak it natively (as most of the population doesn't) they can learn it in school instead of French (which is the official language of the country and most people learn French instead of Arabic). Secondly I said that before Colonialism, Arabic was the language of scholarship among the Muslim population of Senegal (who are the majority). Just as in Timbuktu everyone studied Arabic as well, and many still do learn and speak Arabic in Timbuktu, although French is also the official language of Mali (where they speak BAMBARA and NOT BEMDARA!) and most people learn French (instead of Arabic) in school in Mali. But there are populations of people from Mauritanian families who live in Senegal and who are native Hassaniyah Arabic speakers. But even these families learn Wolof on the street and French (or Classical Arabic or MSA if they choose) in school.

'Arabic' is NOT Woloof, yet its used as a 'common' language, just like english or swahili

I never said that Arabic is Wolof. So why are you even saying this? Actually French is the most common language in Senegal. Wolof is the National langauge because most Senegalese are of the Wolof ethnicity. But there are also the Soninke, the Fulani, Mauritanian families and other ethnicities with their own langauges who live in Senegal, hence if any of these ethnicities hasn't learned Wolof, they can use French to communicate. Before Colonialism Classical Arabic was fulfilling the role that French does now as a language of education, scholarship and trade. And since most Senegalese are Muslims and interested in the Quran and other Islamic traditions that are written in Classical Arabic they gladly accepted learning Classical Arabic and using it as a lingua franca and a langauge of education. That is, until French Colonialism came.

Again, Speak what you KNOW not what you THINK

I AM speaking what I know. Unfortunately you are speaking what you DON'T KNOW.

I think at this point I have made my points clear and exposed your ignorance. You need to let go of your pride and go open up some books on these issues.

Godbless,
Anwar

Mr_Deen

Mr. Deen,

Right now, based on the evidence I have collected, I am leaning more towards the concept that Mary was not a virgin and that Jesus was born the old fashioned way just like the rest of the prophets. But that is another topic. However if this were true than he couldn't possibly be speaking of a fatherless birth when mentioning the Son of Man. I'm quite sure that his Son of Man reference was about his lineage to Adam's blood line. Also, it may have been that his father was Gabriel in human form...hmmmm. I noticed in that link you showed me, that the word for spirit might be equated with Gabriel. If so, perhaps Gabriel was his father, but Mary would have been a black woman and of the Al Insan bloodline which would make Jesus also a Son of Man or a descendant of Adam. Also, if you look at every other reference to Angels in Quran when they interact with people, they are always in the form of Men or humans. As if, once Angels enter the physical world they must take human form. Both Lut and Abraham were fooled into thinking their angelic guests were just human. If this is the case, then it would make sense that when Gabriel visited Mary he was in Human form and perhaps he procreated with her. But Gabriel is not Iblis as Iblis is a completely different personality and came to Earth the same time Adam did and fathered children as Adam did. In other words Iblis was just a mortal man. So I don't see how you equate this with Jesus being white and a son of Iblis. Besides, do we know what color Gabriel's skin was when he came to Mary in human form? Me thinks he would have chosen to appear much like the people of the area and been black, but who knows. Interesting, but now that you have reminded me, I think I have heard of this theory of angelic copulation which lead to Jesus birth before. Have to look into it more.

Peace

cough for the sake of argument. And if Iblis has decendants, of which Jesus is not (he is of fatherless origin), who is Iblis contemporary today? Maybe a man named Charles? And why doesn't the Quran warn of this Charles?

Amin74

Mr. Deen,

Quote "cough for the sake of argument. And if Iblis has decendants, of which Jesus is not (he is of fatherless origin), who is Iblis contemporary today? Maybe a man named Charles? And why doesn't the Quran warn of this Charles?"

Beats me.... maybe David Rothschild or Prince Charles...or hey,...maybe Obama? The Quran warns us of Al Jinn. If there is reference to a specific person I am not aware of it. But I think its not important to focus on one personality but on the entire families or tribes so to speak.

BTW, whats your take on the fact that Quran ALWAYS mentions Angels in HUMAN form when they mingle with people and prophets??

Peace

Ahmad_Bilal

Peace Mr Deen,

cough for the sake of argument. And if Iblis has decendants, of which Jesus is not (he is of fatherless origin), who is Iblis contemporary today? Maybe a man named Charles? And why doesn't the Quran warn of this Charles?

The Quran warns of Satan/Iblis and his decendants throughout the message, but many are not aware.

Peace Amin74,

BTW, whats your take on the fact that Quran ALWAYS mentions Angels in HUMAN form when they mingle with people and prophets??

The Quran explains this as well. Everything in the spirit realm is in spirit form (i.e. without mass), and everything in the earth/physical realm is in a physical form. That's why Adam was made from "black mud" and placed on the earth, in the physical realm. When the angels come down to this planet/realm, they also get a physical form, and this is shown in many examples in the Quran, including the stories of Lot, Abraham, Mary, etc. When they come down to the earth, they are "dressed" as humans and in our form (69). When they return to GOD, they do so in a spirit form.

Peace,

Ahmad

Edip_Yuksel

Dear brother, Al Khidr

I think you are as racist as the white men you condemn. Here are a few points

Differences in colors are not major differences... It is only skin deep.
Adam being created from black clay or mud does not necessarily make him black nor mud. But, Adam, our homo sapien ancestor was most likely from Africa and had dark skin.
Muhammad was an Arab and Arabs are not black.
Arabs were cousins of Jews and they are not black either.
God sends messengers to every nation; to blacks, to whites, to yellow and brown people.
Remember that Satan disobeyed God's instruction because he bragged about its genealogy.
Beware of charlatan leaders who live like kings while some of their supporters struggle for food.
Remember 4913

Peace
Edip Yuksel

Peace,
Edip Yuksel

White or black, racism originates from ignorance and arrogance and as an Satanic ideology, it plants the seeds of hostility among the children of Adam.

Peace,
Edip
Peace,
Edip

Mr_Deen

White or black, racism originates from ignorance and arrogance and as an Satanic ideology, it plants the seeds of hostility among the children of Adam.

Exactly. And Obama is a decendant of Satan, the jinn? He is a jinn? Ok, following this logic.. Obama inherits the qualities of Satan, which would not be a far off relative, since
the earliest abrahamic scriptures we know (judaism) is atleast 10000 years old, and he was still alive at the time of Mohammed (pbuh). This will be the longest president running we have ever had!

Mr_Deen

a 10000 year reign of the son of Satan!

Amin74

Exactly. And Obama is a decendant of Satan, the jinn? He is a jinn? Ok, following this logic.. Obama inherits the qualities of Satan, which would not be a far off relative, since
the earliest abrahamic scriptures we know (judaism) is atleast 10000 years old, and he was still alive at the time of Mohammed (pbuh). This will be the longest president running we have ever had!

Mr. Deen,

I was just kidding about Obama. Anyway, Iblis is dead. He grew old and died just like Adam and all other mortal men on Earth. Iblis has descendants just like Adam did. They know their ancestry and lineage and know where they came from. I also agree about Edip's comment. Iblis was very arrogant and he passed that trait onto his following generations. I also agree that skin color doesn't matter, that's why I prefer to use the words Allah gave us in Quran to describe the two different races. Al Jinn and Al Insan, rather then split hairs over what color their skin was.

Peace

Mr_Deen

Like having Hillary Clinton as state secretary wasn't enough. I think she looks like Uzzat! rotfl rotfl rotfl (joking)

Ahmad_Bilal

Peace Amin74,

Anyway, Iblis is dead. He grew old and died just like Adam and all other mortal men on Earth. Iblis has descendants just like Adam did. They know their ancestry and lineage and know where they came from. I also agree about Edip's comment. Iblis was very arrogant and he passed that trait onto his following generations. I also agree that skin color doesn't matter, that's why I prefer to use the words Allah gave us in Quran to describe the two different races. Al Jinn and Al Insan, rather then split hairs over what color their skin was.

I disagree with this, to an extent. Knowing the skin colors of the people can give us insight into their lineage, and this enables us to differentiate between Adam's offspring and Iblis' offspring. Contrary to some people's opinions, if something is molded from BLACK mud or clay, that makes the object BLACK, plain and simple. If Adam was molded from RED mud, it would make his skin RED, and in turn, all his decendants would also have red skin. If Adam's wife was molded from Adam, then this would also make her skin "hamaa"/black, and also their children. These are facts of reproduction. Children take on the physical characteristics of their parents, and this is based on genetic distribution and featural dominance. Since both Adam and Eve were black, they could not have physically produced red, yellow, white, or blue children. It's not physically possible. The only exception to this is through the spread of albinism, and if the people were living in hot weather conditions during that time period (i.e. Africa), children living with albinism would've developed skin cancer. Regardless, though, this is unlikely since, if Adam and Eve were the first humans, they had no recessive genes and therefore couldn't have produced albino children. So, that means the genealogy of people who weren't "hamaa"/black during that time period must've come from ancestors other than the first pair of humans.

On the contrary, if Adam, who was "hamaa"/black, reproduced with a person of a different race/color (i.e. white, red, blue, etc.), it is possible that the offspring could've been exhibiting a different skin texture and color, and this is likewise the case for Eve. Now, according to the Jewish legend, Satan/Iblis was banished to the earth, where, in Adam's absence, he reproduced with Eve, breeding Cain. So, since Satan/Iblis was NOT molded from this black mud, his skin would not be black, and in reproducing with Eve, his decendants would also not have black skin. Also, Cain is said to have been cursed with leprosy, and therefore his offspring may have been more succeptible to recessive genes (i.e. lighter skin, lighter eyes, etc.). Considering the fact that Adam and Eve didn't have any recessive genes, this is the most likely root of the biological makeup of the separate races and genetic characteristics that separate humanity today... I'm not saying all blacks are decendants of Adam and all whites are decendants of Satan, and I'm don't believe in the racist ideologies of some of the world's modern-day pseudo-Muslims. However, it's foolish to say that color and race mean nothing in terms of genealogy. In the process of separating "al-jinn" from "al-insan", skin color could very well play a huge part in telling the difference between the two...

Peace,

Ahmad

Mr_Deen

I lost track of the discussion.

Don't go around calling white people, the family of satan.
And there are several referances to what a jinn is in the Quran.

There are no halfsatans by genetics. My apologies, fm-readers, for the poor humour.

rsw

I can't believe some of what was written here is actually seriously believed by people. White people descendants of Iblis? Black mud being a reference to skin color? Give me a break, does everything have to be about race? I've never really thought about it like this before but after reading the website linked to in the very beginning of this thread I've come to the conclusion that people who like to characterise entire masses of people based on superficialities like skin color only do so because they are insecure concerning something about themselves. That webpage screams "inferiority complex," I'm not saying the author is "inferior" (whatever that is supposed to mean) in any way, but that he or she is exaggerating and fabricating differences between different skin colors because of some personal insecurities. This is the same kind of angst that fuels white supremacist and nazi groups (Hitler being a perfect example now that I think about it)

progod

Edip,

I agree with you in general but you said two wrong things.

Muhammad was an Arab and Arabs are not black.
Arabs were cousins of Jews and they are not black either.

There are black Arabs, and some of them are Native to Saudi Arabia. The Mahra are an example of this
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeJFoK9jWLs

http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsXVRmahwko

http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHz7CbOxTV8

http//www.andaman.org/BOOK/chapter47/text47.htm

As for Jews being black there are also black Jews.

http//www.blackjews.org/

http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HDHR3Ck3BE

http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmcEPv9F_Ao

http//www.mindspring.com/~jaypsand/index.htm

And if Moses' (God bless him) hand turned white, he could not have been white.

And if you take it from the Bible, Arabs are mixed with Black Egyptians. Remember Hagar? And there are a whole other slew of children of Mizraim that mixed with the children of Mizraim and I believe aslo Kush. And Moses married an Ethiopian and I'm sure they intermarried with the black Egyptians during their stay in Egypt. So despite this issue of cousins of Shem and Ham and etc, if we take the children of Ham as black (and assume that the other brothers were not black) then if your read through the Bible you will see that the children of Ham intermixed heavily with the children of Ham. Even Nimrod, who founded Ur, was a Hamite

Godbless,
Anwar

Amin74

Salaam Ahmad,

I agree. Knowing the skin color helps us understand who is who. What I meant was in the long run it doesn't matter anymore what skin color you have because most of us are all mixed up. You cant rely on skin color alone to know who the Jinn are anymore though it can help. It is best now to trace genetics to find origins of ancestry.

Anyway I believe you are mistaken about the Black race not being able to reproduce a recessive gene. I learned this in High School biology. The black race contains genetic information for both dominant and recessive genes. In fact there is a 7 to 9% chance that two black couples and give birth to a child that displays recessive qualities in one generation. The chances are slim but it is possible. Therefor, the black race could have fathered different skin tones in the long run. This is scientific fact my brother.

However, the white race does not contain the elements of a dominant gene. It is impossible for two white people or two people with recessive traits to give birth to a child containing dominant genes. That is two white people can never have a dark skinned child. This makes it even more difficult to tell who is who nowadays.

I have also heard the theory of Eve procreating with Iblis and it could be true especially if we consider all the stories of Adams eviction center around shame and sexual overtones. An interesting topic.

Anyway, thanks for the comments. This topic really can get people fired up. That is talking about Insan and Jinn and races etc. I like it. Take care.

Peace

Mr_Deen

Salaam Ahmad,

I agree. Knowing the skin color helps us understand who is who. What I meant was in the long run it doesn't matter anymore what skin color you have because most of us are all mixed up. You cant rely on skin color alone to know who the Jinn are anymore though it can help. It is best now to trace genetics to find origins of ancestry.

Anyway I believe you are mistaken about the Black race not being able to reproduce a recessive gene. I learned this in High School biology. The black race contains genetic information for both dominant and recessive genes. In fact there is a 7 to 9% chance that two black couples and give birth to a child that displays recessive qualities in one generation. The chances are slim but it is possible. Therefor, the black race could have fathered different skin tones in the long run. This is scientific fact my brother.

However, the white race does not contain the elements of a dominant gene. It is impossible for two white people or two people with recessive traits to give birth to a child containing dominant genes. That is two white
Peace

Wow, you just disregarded all religious logic, and kept following your faulty mindset. As Edip said, Satans sows the seeds of enemity (biblically inspired phrase). (And here he has explained himself away, lost in an ever-diffusing genepool.. confused )

We created you and then formed you and then We said to the angels, ?Prostrate before Adam,? and they prostrated?except for Iblis. He was not among those who prostrated. He (Allah) said, ?What prevented you from prostrating when I commanded you to?? He (Iblis) replied, ?I am better than him. You created me from fire and You created him from clay.?

He (Allah) said, ?Descend from Heaven. It is not for you to be arrogant in it. So get out! You are one of the abased.? (Surat al-A?raf 11-13)

He said, ?Grant me a reprieve until the day they are raised up.?

He (Allah) said, ?You are one of the reprieved.?

He said, ?By Your misguidance of me, I will lie in ambush for them on Your straight path. Then I will come at them, from in front of them and behind them, from their right and from their left. You will not find most of them thankful.?

He (Allah) said, ?Get out of it, reviled and driven out. As for those of them who follow you, I will fill up Hell with every one of you.? (Surat al-A?raf 14-18 )

A good example of a man following satan here, shows indeed, the spirit of satan. (amin74, claiming white men are the decendants of Satan, and simultaniously explaining away Satan..)

Amin74

You are kind of funny mister deen. Are you white? Oh oh maybe you are the spawn of the devil...! Quit worrying about races and focus on the facts. Iblis was the father of a white race meaning they had a white skin tone but the race is identified by a God given name, Al Jinn. Insan is for Adams bloodlines. Quit thinking in black and white, this is what breeds racism, just think in terms of two different Fathers of two different families or tribes. The devil is Iblis who was a mortal. I have not explained him away but actually explained him into existence since the mumbo jumbo of spooky jinns and the fiery side of man jinns do the job of explaining away the devil perfectly.

The verses you posted are great. They show what character traits dominate the psyche of the Jinn that are manipulating our world today. Did you know that George bush is a blood line descendant of Count Vlad Dracul or Vlad the Impaler of Romania? Who was indeed a fair skinned man from the same areas that a white race was believed to originate from. Kind of interesting. Bush very well may have strong Jinn genetics running through his blue blood. This is also true for the royal family.

You know you could have Iblis blood running through your veins but so what?! You found God, what have you to worry about?

Peace, don't let thoughts of white Jinn make you lose sleep.

Mr_Deen

You are kind of funny mister deen. Are you white? Oh oh maybe you are the spawn of the devil...! Quit worrying about races and focus on the facts. Iblis was the father of a white race meaning they had a white skin tone but the race is identified by a God given name, Al Jinn. Insan is for Adams bloodlines. Quit thinking in black and white, this is what breeds racism, just think in terms of two different Fathers of two different families or tribes. The devil is Iblis who was a mortal. I have not explained him away but actually explained him into existence since the mumbo jumbo of spooky jinns and the fiery side of man jinns do the job of explaining away the devil perfectly.

The verses you posted are great. They show what character traits dominate the psyche of the Jinn that are manipulating our world today. Did you know that George bush is a blood line descendant of Count Vlad Dracul or Vlad the Impaler of Romania? Who was indeed a fair skinned man from the same areas that a white race was believed to originate from. Kind of interesting. Bush very well may have strong Jinn genetics running through his blue blood. This is also true for the royal family.

You know you could have Iblis blood running through your veins but so what?! You found God, what have you to worry about?

Peace, don't let thoughts of white Jinn make you lose sleep.

This just keeps getting better. George Bush is a vampire. What's next, Obama is Satan himself. Oh yeah you already said that.

Amin74

George Bush is not a vampire...come one man don't be ridiculous. And quit building straw men out of my claims. Be logical please. And Vlad Dracul wasn't a vampire. His life just inspired the fairy tale. Anyway, I forgot to tell you that I found an article that states Obama is a distant cousin of both Dick Cheney AND George Bush. So claims Lynee Cheney, Dicks wife. So maybe Obama IS the spawn of the devil! Who knew??? Link is below

http//www.nypost.com/seven/10172007/news/regionalnews/dissing_cousins__obama__cheney.htm

Its a mad world brother.

Mr_Deen

George Bush is not a vampire...come one man don't be ridiculous. And quit building straw men out of my claims. Be logical please. And Vlad Dracul wasn't a vampire. His life just inspired the fairy tale. Anyway, I forgot to tell you that I found an article that states Obama is a distant cousin of both Dick Cheney AND George Bush. So claims Lynee Cheney, Dicks wife. So maybe Obama IS the spawn of the devil! Who knew??? Link is below

http//www.nypost.com/seven/10172007/news/regionalnews/dissing_cousins__obama__cheney.htm

Its a mad world brother.

Amin.. there are no strawmen here, it is you, who claim some kind of moral perfection of black men, and that white men are the ones, who whisper evil into their minds.
Spawn of satan was your own words. Satan does not reproduce, it is a spirit. Else one would have "children of satan". Where do you find this concept in the Quran?

And if you were to put black men, unmixed, pure race, they would not commit evil, since the presence of satan is not there?

Amin74

Amin.. there are no strawmen here, it is you, who claim some kind of moral perfection of black men, and that white men are the ones, who whisper evil into their minds.
Spawn of satan was your own words. Satan does not reproduce, it is a spirit. Else one would have "children of satan". Where do you find this concept in the Quran?

And if you were to put black men, unmixed, pure race, they would not commit evil, since the presence of satan is not there?

No...YOU build the straw men. You claimed Bush was a vampire not me. You started the spawn of Satan in regards to Obama. I simply followed up sarcastically but now I've had enough of your straw men. Now you have finally made a claim to suggest your own opinion. How long did that take Mr Straw Man? So show me your evidence that Satan is a spirit... I'll wait. Then I will show you the evidence from Quran that Iblis or Satan was a man on Earth, not a spook. What do you follow the silly hadith that say Jinn are invisible spooks who eat feces and live in your toilet?

It's late on this side of the planet so I will try to respond tonight. If not I will soon.

Peace...
....We're off to see the wizard, the wonderful wizard of........