The true Islam
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Salaam Wakas
Often people leave this forum because of the stubbornness of some long term members, and therefore their opinion has no bearing on what is a conclusive answer. Salat performed on the day of gathering clearly shows that there is a middle prayer, which was performed in congregation once a week, unless the day of gathering was not weekly but, perhaps on the feast of Hajj. The case of Suleyman who missed the middle prayer due to his preoccupation with the horses, strongly indicates the existence of this prayer.
peacePeace
The night prayer Isha is in the middle of the day and the night.Peace
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Peace hpesc.
The prayers, are sometimes referred at different times. Sometimes, morning, midday,
The time of revelation or recitation, might also have been a time of reciting the Quran.
(Reading from the Quran, also constitutes prayer).
So, when this had happened, God reminded them to keep up the other prayers.
For instance, if one prayed, and had a session of reciting the Quran, in the morning, God would remind them to keep up the other prayers of the day, aswell. Which would then be end-of-day/sunset/midday, and evening.
Or if one prayed, and had a session of reciting the Quran, in the sunset, God would remind them to keep up the other prayers of the day, aswell. Which would then be morning and evening.
And similarly for evening.Peace
Believe it or not but I still don't understand what you mean. From all the verses that include the actual word "salat" I only see two prayers who are named Fajr and Isha.Peace
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Peace Hpesc,
This still doesn't change the fact that the directive is to keep up the SALAWAAT (more than 2 salaat observances). So, because of the word "salawaat" used in this instance, it means there are at least 3 prayers/communions per day, not two. Since the "salawaat" is separate from the "salaatu al wusta", it means that this "wusta" observance has special significance, which is in harmony with other verses calling the salaat observance during the night "extra". Whether you regard this "salaatu al wusta"/middle communion as occurring at noon or at midnight, either time would occur directly between the other 2 (i.e. morning and evening), making them both directly in the "middle".
Peace,
Ahmad
Peace
You interpretation is wrong. When it is said in the Quran "Be careful of your prayers" its not meant only to be careful of your two prayers or three prayer per day. It is meant in generally to be careful of prayers in generally every day of your life wich might mean 60000 prayers or more ore less.
Also wusta is simply Isha being between the day (nahar) and the night (layl)Peace
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Peace
Believe it or not but I still don't understand what you mean. From all the verses that include the actual word "salat" I only see two prayers who are named Fajr and Isha.Peace
Ok, but I think it's quite probable, from the poetical build of the Quran, that "praise" also about prayer. And probably "glorify" aswell.
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Peace Hpesc,
You interpretation is wrong. When it is said in the Quran "Be careful of your prayers" its not meant only to be careful of your two prayers or three prayer per day. It is meant in generally to be careful of prayers in generally every day of your life wich might mean 60000 prayers or more ore less.
So, you also believe that "salawaat" is referring to all the salaat observances done in one's life? ) I've already explained how this is completely illogical. Look throughout the Qur'an where the salaat observances throughout one's entire life are mentioned, and I GUARANTEE they don't say, "Uphold the salawaat..." Why do you think that is? hmm Throughout the scriptures, when the Qur'an refers to our general salaat (i.e. throughout our lifetime), it simply uses the general term "salaat", not "salawaat" (THREE OR MORE).
Those who believe in the unseen and they keep up the communions/SALAAT and what we provide for them they spend. (23)
And seek support through patience and the communions/SALAAT; and it is a difficult thing, but not so for the humble. (245)
And keep up the communions/SALAAT and give the zakat and what you advance to yourselves in goodness. You will find it at Allah. Allah is watching what you do. (2110)
And those who hold fast the book, and keep up the communions/SALAAT. So we do not waste the reward of the righteous. (7170)
These verses are obviously not speaking about ONE salaat observance, they are speaking about general salaat (i.e. throughout one's lifetime). The word "salaat" (singular) is used to describe our general communion throughout our lifetime, and therefore, "salawaat" (plural) is referring to our daily salaat observances. If this number was two, it would instruct us to keep up the "salaatayn"/TWO COMMUNIONS. Instead, it says "salawaat"/THREE OR MORE COMMUNIONS, meaning there are obviously more than two salaat observances per day.
Peace,
Ahmad
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Ok, but I think it's quite probable, from the poetical build of the Quran, that "praise" also about prayer. And probably "glorify" aswell.
Peace
No. Praise God you can do whenever and not washed but prayer is only appointed times when you must be washed before it.Peace
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Peace Hpesc,
Praise God you can do whenever and not washed but prayer is only appointed times when you must be washed before it.
Do you have any evidence to support your TWO-SALAAT THEORY?
Peace,
Ahmad
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Peace Hpesc,
So, you also believe that "salawaat" is referring to all the salaat observances done in one's life? ) I've already explained how this is completely illogical. Look throughout the Qur'an where the salaat observances throughout one's entire life are mentioned, and I GUARANTEE they don't say, "Uphold the salawaat..." Why do you think that is? hmm Throughout the scriptures, when the Qur'an refers to our general salaat (i.e. throughout our lifetime), it simply uses the general term "salaat", not "salawaat" (THREE OR MORE).
Those who believe in the unseen and they keep up the communions/SALAAT and what we provide for them they spend. (23)
And seek support through patience and the communions/SALAAT; and it is a difficult thing, but not so for the humble. (245)
And keep up the communions/SALAAT and give the zakat and what you advance to yourselves in goodness. You will find it at Allah. Allah is watching what you do. (2110)
And those who hold fast the book, and keep up the communions/SALAAT. So we do not waste the reward of the righteous. (7170)
These verses are obviously not speaking about ONE salaat observance, they are speaking about general salaat (i.e. throughout one's lifetime). The word "salaat" (singular) is used to describe our general communion throughout our lifetime, and therefore, "salawaat" (plural) is referring to our daily salaat observances. If this number was two, it would instruct us to keep up the "salaatayn"/TWO COMMUNIONS. Instead, it says "salawaat"/THREE OR MORE COMMUNIONS, meaning there are obviously more than two salaat observances per day.
Peace,
Ahmad
Peace
You are wrong. If you look att sura 23 verse 8-9;8 Those who faithfully observe their trusts and their covenants;
9 And who guard their prayers;-you will see that prayers is also here written in plural meaning in generally (could be one prayer since you could die after you first prayer or for example 60000 prayers).
According to your theory trusts wich also is written in plural wich you can see in the verse before must be more than two per day wich makes no sence and is completely wrong.Peace
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Peace Hpesc,
You are wrong. If you look att sura 23 verse 8-9;
8 Those who faithfully observe their trusts and their covenants;
9 And who guard their prayers;-you will see that prayers is also here written in plural meaning in generally (could be one prayer since you could die after you first prayer or for example 60000 prayers).
This is wrong. The fact that it is written in the plural form shows that it's NOT general, and it emphasizes a specific number (THREE OR MORE). There are only 5 instances where this is emphasized throughout the entire Qur'an (one is possessive and doesn't say "salawaat". However, there are plenty of passages that speak of salaat in general. I quoted these verses
Those who believe in the unseen and they keep up the communions/SALAAT and what we provide for them they spend. (23)
And seek support through patience and the communions/SALAAT; and it is a difficult thing, but not so for the humble. (245)
And keep up the communions/SALAAT and give the zakat and what you advance to yourselves in goodness. You will find it at Allah. Allah is watching what you do. (2110)
And those who hold fast the book, and keep up the communions/SALAAT. So we do not waste the reward of the righteous. (7170)
Do you believe these passages to be referring to ONE salaat observance (i.e. 'Keep up the ONE salaat'? That would be illogical. You can even look them up yourself; the term "salaat" is used to refer to general salaat observance (i.e. during one's lifetime) throughout the entire Qur'an. They are clearly speaking about salaat in general, not in one specific salaat observance... Therefore, if these verses and others use the word "salaat" to refer to general communion/prayer, then the pluralized form ("salawaat" must be referring to a specific number during a specific period of time (i.e. per day, per week, per month, etc.); it's not referring to general salaat upkeepings. If you were correct in the Qur'an referring to TWO daily salaat observances, it would use the term "salaatayn"/two prayers, instead of saying "salawaat"/three of more prayers.
According to your theory trusts wich also is written in plural wich you can see in the verse before must be more than two per day wich makes no sence and is completely wrong.
You've gotta be kidding me... ) There's no pluralized general term for "trusts/securities"; this is just the basic plural form of it, which could be all of one's trusts in one day, one week, one month, one year, or one lifetime. These two terms aren't even comparable.
Peace,
Ahmad
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Peace Hpesc,
This is wrong. The fact that it is written in the plural form shows that it's NOT general, and it emphasizes a specific number (THREE OR MORE). There are only 5 instances where this is emphasized throughout the entire Qur'an (one is possessive and doesn't say "salawaat". However, there are plenty of passages that speak of salaat in general. I quoted these verses
Do you believe these passages to be referring to ONE salaat observance (i.e. 'Keep up the ONE salaat'? That would be illogical. You can even look them up yourself; the term "salaat" is used to refer to general salaat observance (i.e. during one's lifetime) throughout the entire Qur'an. They are clearly speaking about salaat in general, not in one specific salaat observance... Therefore, if these verses and others use the word "salaat" to refer to general communion/prayer, then the pluralized form ("salawaat" must be referring to a specific number during a specific period of time (i.e. per day, per week, per month, etc.); it's not referring to general salaat upkeepings. If you were correct in the Qur'an referring to TWO daily salaat observances, it would use the term "salaatayn"/two prayers, instead of saying "salawaat"/three of more prayers.
You've gotta be kidding me... There's no pluralized general term for "trusts/securities"; this is just the basic plural form of it, which could be all of one's trusts in one day, one week, one month, one year, or one lifetime. These two terms aren't even comparable.
Peace,
Ahmad
Peace
In arabic there is trust and plural of it wich is trusts. In this sentence when its plural and don't mean a specified nr then of course you are talking about trusts in general. Its not hard to understand. For example if I in arabic say; be careful with dogs you say be careful minal kil?bi. Wich also means in general wich means not specifically 1, 2 ore three and so on. The trusts example is a perfect example. Even when said salat in many places it also means in general. You can say both singular or plurar and mean in general (=generally speaking) and the trusts example proves it. This is totally clear. I don't understand how you can see it otherwise.
Let me ask you, is your origin north africa?Peace
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Peace Hpesc,
In arabic there is trust and plural of it wich is trusts. In this sentence when its plural and don't mean a specified nr then of course you are talking about trusts in general. Its not hard to understand. For example if I in arabic say; be careful with dogs you say be careful minal kil?bi. Wich also means in general wich means not specifically 1, 2 ore three and so on. The trusts example is a perfect example. Even when said salat in many places it also means in general. You can say both singular or plurar and mean in general (=generally speaking) and the trusts example proves it. This is totally clear. I don't understand how you can see it otherwise.
Okay... How, then, do you say "two trusts" in Arabic? ) Exactly. The word "trust" is a common subject, and "trusts" is the plural form. However, it can't be called a general pluralized form because THERE'S NO SPECIFIC PLURALIZED FORM. So, like I said, this could refer to the trusts of one day, one week, one month, one year, or one lifetime. This is completely different from "salaat", which can be a singular and a general plural noun.
Let me ask you, is your origin north africa?
I don't understand the question. All of humanity has an origin from northern Africa, most likely between Kemet/Egypt, Nubia/Sudan, or Morocco. I'm no different. So, I guess this means that, yes, I do have an origin/ancestry from North Africa... If you're asking if I was born or raised in North Africa, no, I wasn't born or raised there.
Peace,
Ahmad
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Peace Hpesc,
Okay... How, then, do you say "two trusts" in Arabic? Exactly. The word "trust" is a common subject, and "trusts" is the plural form. However, it can't be called a general pluralized form because THERE'S NO SPECIFIC PLURALIZED FORM. So, like I said, this could refer to the trusts of one day, one week, one month, one year, or one lifetime. This is completely different from "salaat", which can be a singular and a general plural noun.
I don't understand the question. All of humanity has an origin from northern Africa, most likely between Kemet/Egypt, Nubia/Sudan, or Morocco. I'm no different. So, I guess this means that, yes, I do have an origin/ancestry from North Africa... If you're asking if I was born or raised in North Africa, no, I wasn't born or raised there.
Peace,
Ahmad
Peace
Trust = imana two trusts = imanatan trusts = imanat. Its not completely different from salat and if perfectly comparable. I give you another example;Sura 63 verse 9;
9 O ye who believe! Let not your riches or your children divert you from the remembrance of Allah. If any act thus, the loss is their own.
Look at the word children wich is written in plural can still mean that I have only two children even thoug there is walad, waldani, aulad. Its because its also talking in general. Very very simple. Do you want even more examples to understand?
As for your origin its a simple question. I live now in Sweden and if someone ask me my origin or where Im from I simply say Syria, Halab (arab). Maybe you don't want to tell me where your from but in that case just say so.
Also you said that "all of humanity has an origin from northern Africa". Where did you get this from? God divided us in different colors and language. Our origin is Noah and firstly Adam. We don't know where they lived except that Adam firstly lived in Paradise and then on earth.Peace
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Peace Hpesc,
Trust = imana two trusts = imanatan trusts = imanat. Its not completely different from salat and if perfectly comparable. I give you another example;
Sura 63 verse 9;
9 O ye who believe! Let not your riches or your children divert you from the remembrance of Allah. If any act thus, the loss is their own.
Look at the word children wich is written in plural can still mean that I have only two children even thoug there is walad, waldani, aulad. Its because its also talking in general. Very very simple. Do you want even more examples to understand?
This is exactly what I was talking about. Regarding the word "trust", it would singularly be "imaana", and the plural form is "imaanat". To refer to "two trusts", you would have to have "imaanat" with a combination of "itnayn"/two; if you wanted to say "three trusts", you'd have to have a combination of the word "talaata", and so on... The example of children is different because "children" is a general pluralized form of the word "child". For example, if you make the statement "my children", it is implied that you're referring to all of your children, or at least all your children that are present. That's completely different from salaat. If the Qur'an wants you to keep the salaat, it says, "Keep the SALAAT," plain and simple. However, if it's speaking about a specific number of salaat observances within a given period of time, it would use the pluralized form (i.e. "salaatayn", "salawaat", "salaat". That itself shows that the singular form (i.e. "salaat" can also be used as the general plural form, and it's used this way throughout the Qur'an.
As for your origin its a simple question. I live now in Sweden and if someone ask me my origin or where Im from I simply say Syria, Halab (arab). Maybe you don't want to tell me where your from but in that case just say so.
Also you said that "all of humanity has an origin from northern Africa". Where did you get this from? God divided us in different colors and language. Our origin is Noah and firstly Adam. We don't know where they lived except that Adam firstly lived in Paradise and then on earth.I wasn't trying to convey my origin as a secret or anything. I'm from the United States, born, raised, and living presently... In the case of humanity, it has been scientifically acknowledged that humanity itself was initiated in northern Africa, most likely in the region of modern-day Sudan; and from there, everyone spaced out and populated the rest of the world. So, in this case, my origin and ancestry is from northern Africa, as is the rest of humanity.
Peace,
Ahmad
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Assalaam Alaikum
Im not sure where this individual gets the interpretation that 'Salat' is 'singular' in in the Quran.
In the references given, 2.3, 2.45, 2.110 & 7.170 Salata is plural.
Salata
Is a Irregular Plural Noun, the root pattern Sad-Lam-Waw has been 'broken' with the tarmubutah
Salata is grammatically Singular but semantically Plural
The following are SINGULAR references to Salah
So he did not verify it / saddaqa and did not SALLA / PRAY.
salla (Singular, Verbal Form II, Perfect) someone prayed
salli ( Singular, Verbal Form II, Perfect) You pray
yusalli (Singular, Verbal Form II, Imperfect) He is prayingPLURAL reference to Salah
They are those on whom (Descend) blessings from Allah, and Mercy, and they are the ones that receive guidance.
Al-Baqarah 2.238] Be preserver over the SALAWAT / PRAYERS
salawatun / salawati(Plural Noun, Used in Nominative & Genitive Case) Prayers, Blessings
salaatayn?, I dont believe thats even a word.
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Peace MTR,
C'mon, brother... ) I don't understand why you're putting these out there. These have absolutely nothing to do with what we're talking about. The words "salaat" and "salaata" are singular, no matter what dialect you place them in. The only time this is not the case is when an unspecific absolute is mentioned, and in these cases, "salaat" can be used as a generalized plural. The mentions of "sallaa", "salli", and "yusalli" have no significance to this at all because they are SINGULAR VERBS. When we mention the concept of prayer and communion, we're talking about "salaat", a SINGULAR NOUN that can also be used as a GENERALIZED PLURAL NOUN.
PLURAL reference to Salah
They are those on whom (Descend) blessings from Allah, and Mercy, and they are the ones that receive guidance.
This literally says
Upon them are "salawaat"/prayers from their Lord, and a kindness, and they are the guided ones. (The use of this reference to "salawaat" is often interpreted as blessings.)
This is completely different from
Those who believe in the unseen and they keep up the SALAAT and what we provide for them they spend. (23)
In this case, "salaat" is clearly a generalized plural noun, referring to general salaat, not one specific salaat. Even in the example you mentioned (223, it says for us to keep up "alsalawaat alsalaat alwusta". So, in this case, as specified, the word "salaat" in this case is referring to ONE SPECIFIC SALAAT OBSERVANCE. So, yes, the basic word "salaat" is singular, not plural. And since "alsalaat alwusta" is referring to one specific salaat observance in one day, it is only logical that the reference to "salawaat" (plural) is also referring to a number of salaat observances within the same day as "alsalaat alwusta".
salaatayn?, I dont believe thats even a word.
Yes, "salaatayn" refers to TWO salaat observances. The breakdown of the word "salaat" in number is
- salaat = one, generalized plural (i.e. "keep the prayers"
- salaatayn = two
- salawaat = three or more
The word "salaatayn" is not mentioned in the Qur'an because the scriptures admonish us to observe more than two salaat observances per day. Instead, the word "salawaat" is used because we are told to observe three or more salaat per day.
Peace,
Ahmad
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Assalaam Alaikum
@Ahmad, With all due respect, you dont have a clue as to what your talking about. You seem to go from thread to thread 'posing' as If you actually know Sarf relating to the Arabic of Quran.
The 'ta' or tarmubutah in Salaat or Salata makes the words 'broken plural', irregular plural nouns.
The 'ta' or tarmubutah is NOT part of the root pattern, Sad-Lam-Waw NOT sad-lam-ta
Be preserver over the SALAWAT / PRAYERS and (be preserver of) the alwusta / afternoon, midmost, middle SALAH/PRAYER and you stand for Allah obediently.
= Genitive Case "You protect all the prayers AND the after noon prayers"
Salati is a irregular plural noun wusta is in the Accusative Case.
is NOT referring ONE single Salah, its referring to ALL forms of Salah that are performed 'After Noon', Asr, Maghrib, Isha, Tahajjuud, Fajr, Zuhr.
In some parts of the world during certain times of the year it is daylight for 6 months and night for 6 months.
This ayah addresses continous daylight and nightime in those parts of the world
So you be patient over what they say and glorify with the praises of your Lord before the rising of the sun / tulooAAi ash-shamsi (night time, Maghrib, Esha, Fajr) and before its setting (day time, Zuhar, Asar) and from the parts of the night, (continuous night time, Fajr, Zuhar, Asar, Maghrib, Esha) and so glorify at the extremities of the day / Atrafa (continuous day time Fajr, Zuhar, Asar, Maghrib, Esha) so that you will be pleased.
tulooAAi verbal noun means rising
Atrafa means TIMES. AT DAYBREAK and at SUNSET or at NOON and at ASR@Ahmad, Not to be disrespectful, but speak what you know, not what you think.
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Peace MTR,
rotfl Wow... It's a waste of my time (and yours too) for me to go into detail about all the ways you are COMPLETELY WRONG, and if I did take the time to do so, you wouldn't pay attention anyway. You'd just blow it off, acting as if you know everything there is to know about the Arabic language because you've studied it in a textbook... ) Your ignorance on this matter, mixed with your profession of knowledge about everything in the Qur'an (even though most of the things you "clarify" on here are way off), is seriously hilarious, brother, and it's kind of sad too... But whatever, guy. I won't waste my time with you discussing this basic issue that you clearly don't have a clue about. You stick to what you know, and I'll stick to what I know...
Peace,
Ahmad
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ok..thats fair...Allah will be the judge....
Keep in mind your opinion and negative sentiment have no value in a intellectual discussion....
Do you not see that Allah has subjected to your (use) all things in the heavens and on earth, and has made his bounties flow to you in exceeding measure, (both) seen and unseen? Yet there are among men those who dispute about Allah, without knowledge and without guidance, and without a Book to enlighten them!
When they are told to follow the (Revelation) that Allah has sent down, they say. "No, we shall follow the ways that we found our fathers (following). "What! even if it is Satan beckoning them to the Penalty of the (Blazing) Fire?