The true Islam
-
Peace Wakas,
I appreciate your guidance on this issue, but I've also thoroughly researched this issue, and I've seen the many arguments regarding Salaat on this forum. All of them fail to accurately acknowledge the study of the Quran/prayer/connection/salaat at NIGHT, which is described in 11114.
You shall observe the Salaat at both ends of the day, and during the night. The righteous works wipe out the evil works. This is a reminder for those who would take heed. (11114)
Now, even though this can be retranslated (or mistranslated) to refer to the morning and evening Salaat only, 1779 is clearly talking about a different one during the night. Since this mentions "extra credit/endeavor" (also translated as "beyond the call of duty" Salaat, this is possibly the "middle"/best Salaat mentioned in 2238. Most of the people who agree with the 2 Salaat theory have not thoroughly investigated it; some have considered it, but others only choose to agree with the majority, and this is improper.
If you obey the majority of people on earth, they will divert you from the path of God. They follow only conjecture; they only guess. (6116)
Peace,
Ahmad
Peace
There are only two prayers per day (yaom). See my earlier posts in this thread for my answers.Peace
-
If there was two, which days are you supposed to pray say, morning, sunset. And which, morning, evening, or sunset, evening? These are the times referred, when only 2 prayers are mentioned. A theory could be that these times were referred, because one of the times had just occured, at the time of revelation. Or some similar reason. In any case the logics of two prayers, is extremely weak.
Peace
I don't understand what you mean.Peace
-
Peace hpesc.
The prayers, are sometimes referred at different times. Sometimes, morning, midday,
The time of revelation or recitation, might also have been a time of reciting the Quran.
(Reading from the Quran, also constitutes prayer).
So, when this had happened, God reminded them to keep up the other prayers.
For instance, if one prayed, and had a session of reciting the Quran, in the morning, God would remind them to keep up the other prayers of the day, aswell. Which would then be end-of-day/sunset/midday, and evening.
Or if one prayed, and had a session of reciting the Quran, in the sunset, God would remind them to keep up the other prayers of the day, aswell. Which would then be morning and evening.
And similarly for evening. -
Peace Hpesc,
This verse 2238 is a good verse and the meaning of it you maybe think that its a third prayer but its not. The meaning of this verse is to be careful with the prayers and then it refers to an already existing prayer wich is located between the day (nahar) and night(layl) wich is Isha. In the Quran 1 yaom contain nahar and layl and the layl is the covering of the nahar and in the middle of the yaom is Isha wich is wasat.
This still doesn't change the fact that the directive is to keep up the SALAWAAT (more than 2 salaat observances). So, because of the word "salawaat" used in this instance, it means there are at least 3 prayers/communions per day, not two. Since the "salawaat" is separate from the "salaatu al wusta", it means that this "wusta" observance has special significance, which is in harmony with other verses calling the salaat observance during the night "extra". Whether you regard this "salaatu al wusta"/middle communion as occurring at noon or at midnight, either time would occur directly between the other 2 (i.e. morning and evening), making them both directly in the "middle".
Peace,
Ahmad
-
Peace Wakas,
No, actually, I've already taken into account the literal translation of 11114 (i.e. zulufann min al-layl). However, "during the night" is the most basic translation of it. And considering how the night Salaat is already explained in other verses, "during the night" would also probably be the most appropriate. The literal would probably be closer to the "near parts of the night". Still, if there were only two prayers, the verse would say, "You shall observe the Salaat at the ends of the day." However, it doesn't; it makes mention of another one.
Peace,
Ahmad
Peace
The meaning of sura 11 verse 114 is not to explain the nr of prayers but it is to explain when to prayer wich according to this verse will be sun up, sun down and first part of the night wich is connected to sun down and together they make the night prayer wich is called Isha in the Quran.Peace
-
-
Peace Wakas,
In literally translating, by just saying, "And keep up the salaat at the edges of the day...", it's already providing a time range. The edges (or ends) of the daytime are (1) morning and (2) evening. These are two clear time frames to keep up the salaat. By placing, "...and parts of the night" afterwards, it's obviously talking about a time period separate from the other two.
Also, "edges of the day" and "adjacent parts of the night" would fit together in one mold, and this would make perfect sense, if "zulfa" meant "adjacent". But it doesn't mean "adjacent", it means "near" or "part of" something. Therefore, if the verse said the "zulfa" of the night, it would literally be speaking about a part of the night, most applied to the near/beginning/onsetting part of it. This would also apply to "zulufan", which is a plural actually designating THREE OR MORE. The "adjacent" parts of the night would fit with the edges of the day if both were forming one designated time period, namely 2 frames (i.e. morning and evening). However, since "zulufan" is speaking about THREE OR MORE, there's no way it can apply to the same two times unless these are only part of it's time frame (i.e. morning, evening, and part of the night). So, either way, "zulufann min al-layl" has to be speaking of a THIRD time frame to keep up the salaat.
Peace,
Ahmad
Peace
It explains to make 2 prayer at three times where two of these times are connected and together make the night prayer Isha.Peace
-
Salaam Wakas
Often people leave this forum because of the stubbornness of some long term members, and therefore their opinion has no bearing on what is a conclusive answer. Salat performed on the day of gathering clearly shows that there is a middle prayer, which was performed in congregation once a week, unless the day of gathering was not weekly but, perhaps on the feast of Hajj. The case of Suleyman who missed the middle prayer due to his preoccupation with the horses, strongly indicates the existence of this prayer.
peacePeace
The night prayer Isha is in the middle of the day and the night.Peace
-
Peace hpesc.
The prayers, are sometimes referred at different times. Sometimes, morning, midday,
The time of revelation or recitation, might also have been a time of reciting the Quran.
(Reading from the Quran, also constitutes prayer).
So, when this had happened, God reminded them to keep up the other prayers.
For instance, if one prayed, and had a session of reciting the Quran, in the morning, God would remind them to keep up the other prayers of the day, aswell. Which would then be end-of-day/sunset/midday, and evening.
Or if one prayed, and had a session of reciting the Quran, in the sunset, God would remind them to keep up the other prayers of the day, aswell. Which would then be morning and evening.
And similarly for evening.Peace
Believe it or not but I still don't understand what you mean. From all the verses that include the actual word "salat" I only see two prayers who are named Fajr and Isha.Peace
-
Peace Hpesc,
This still doesn't change the fact that the directive is to keep up the SALAWAAT (more than 2 salaat observances). So, because of the word "salawaat" used in this instance, it means there are at least 3 prayers/communions per day, not two. Since the "salawaat" is separate from the "salaatu al wusta", it means that this "wusta" observance has special significance, which is in harmony with other verses calling the salaat observance during the night "extra". Whether you regard this "salaatu al wusta"/middle communion as occurring at noon or at midnight, either time would occur directly between the other 2 (i.e. morning and evening), making them both directly in the "middle".
Peace,
Ahmad
Peace
You interpretation is wrong. When it is said in the Quran "Be careful of your prayers" its not meant only to be careful of your two prayers or three prayer per day. It is meant in generally to be careful of prayers in generally every day of your life wich might mean 60000 prayers or more ore less.
Also wusta is simply Isha being between the day (nahar) and the night (layl)Peace
-
Peace
Believe it or not but I still don't understand what you mean. From all the verses that include the actual word "salat" I only see two prayers who are named Fajr and Isha.Peace
Ok, but I think it's quite probable, from the poetical build of the Quran, that "praise" also about prayer. And probably "glorify" aswell.
-
Peace Hpesc,
You interpretation is wrong. When it is said in the Quran "Be careful of your prayers" its not meant only to be careful of your two prayers or three prayer per day. It is meant in generally to be careful of prayers in generally every day of your life wich might mean 60000 prayers or more ore less.
So, you also believe that "salawaat" is referring to all the salaat observances done in one's life? ) I've already explained how this is completely illogical. Look throughout the Qur'an where the salaat observances throughout one's entire life are mentioned, and I GUARANTEE they don't say, "Uphold the salawaat..." Why do you think that is? hmm Throughout the scriptures, when the Qur'an refers to our general salaat (i.e. throughout our lifetime), it simply uses the general term "salaat", not "salawaat" (THREE OR MORE).
Those who believe in the unseen and they keep up the communions/SALAAT and what we provide for them they spend. (23)
And seek support through patience and the communions/SALAAT; and it is a difficult thing, but not so for the humble. (245)
And keep up the communions/SALAAT and give the zakat and what you advance to yourselves in goodness. You will find it at Allah. Allah is watching what you do. (2110)
And those who hold fast the book, and keep up the communions/SALAAT. So we do not waste the reward of the righteous. (7170)
These verses are obviously not speaking about ONE salaat observance, they are speaking about general salaat (i.e. throughout one's lifetime). The word "salaat" (singular) is used to describe our general communion throughout our lifetime, and therefore, "salawaat" (plural) is referring to our daily salaat observances. If this number was two, it would instruct us to keep up the "salaatayn"/TWO COMMUNIONS. Instead, it says "salawaat"/THREE OR MORE COMMUNIONS, meaning there are obviously more than two salaat observances per day.
Peace,
Ahmad
-
Ok, but I think it's quite probable, from the poetical build of the Quran, that "praise" also about prayer. And probably "glorify" aswell.
Peace
No. Praise God you can do whenever and not washed but prayer is only appointed times when you must be washed before it.Peace
-
Peace Hpesc,
Praise God you can do whenever and not washed but prayer is only appointed times when you must be washed before it.
Do you have any evidence to support your TWO-SALAAT THEORY?
Peace,
Ahmad
-
Peace Hpesc,
So, you also believe that "salawaat" is referring to all the salaat observances done in one's life? ) I've already explained how this is completely illogical. Look throughout the Qur'an where the salaat observances throughout one's entire life are mentioned, and I GUARANTEE they don't say, "Uphold the salawaat..." Why do you think that is? hmm Throughout the scriptures, when the Qur'an refers to our general salaat (i.e. throughout our lifetime), it simply uses the general term "salaat", not "salawaat" (THREE OR MORE).
Those who believe in the unseen and they keep up the communions/SALAAT and what we provide for them they spend. (23)
And seek support through patience and the communions/SALAAT; and it is a difficult thing, but not so for the humble. (245)
And keep up the communions/SALAAT and give the zakat and what you advance to yourselves in goodness. You will find it at Allah. Allah is watching what you do. (2110)
And those who hold fast the book, and keep up the communions/SALAAT. So we do not waste the reward of the righteous. (7170)
These verses are obviously not speaking about ONE salaat observance, they are speaking about general salaat (i.e. throughout one's lifetime). The word "salaat" (singular) is used to describe our general communion throughout our lifetime, and therefore, "salawaat" (plural) is referring to our daily salaat observances. If this number was two, it would instruct us to keep up the "salaatayn"/TWO COMMUNIONS. Instead, it says "salawaat"/THREE OR MORE COMMUNIONS, meaning there are obviously more than two salaat observances per day.
Peace,
Ahmad
Peace
You are wrong. If you look att sura 23 verse 8-9;8 Those who faithfully observe their trusts and their covenants;
9 And who guard their prayers;-you will see that prayers is also here written in plural meaning in generally (could be one prayer since you could die after you first prayer or for example 60000 prayers).
According to your theory trusts wich also is written in plural wich you can see in the verse before must be more than two per day wich makes no sence and is completely wrong.Peace
-
Peace Hpesc,
You are wrong. If you look att sura 23 verse 8-9;
8 Those who faithfully observe their trusts and their covenants;
9 And who guard their prayers;-you will see that prayers is also here written in plural meaning in generally (could be one prayer since you could die after you first prayer or for example 60000 prayers).
This is wrong. The fact that it is written in the plural form shows that it's NOT general, and it emphasizes a specific number (THREE OR MORE). There are only 5 instances where this is emphasized throughout the entire Qur'an (one is possessive and doesn't say "salawaat". However, there are plenty of passages that speak of salaat in general. I quoted these verses
Those who believe in the unseen and they keep up the communions/SALAAT and what we provide for them they spend. (23)
And seek support through patience and the communions/SALAAT; and it is a difficult thing, but not so for the humble. (245)
And keep up the communions/SALAAT and give the zakat and what you advance to yourselves in goodness. You will find it at Allah. Allah is watching what you do. (2110)
And those who hold fast the book, and keep up the communions/SALAAT. So we do not waste the reward of the righteous. (7170)
Do you believe these passages to be referring to ONE salaat observance (i.e. 'Keep up the ONE salaat'? That would be illogical. You can even look them up yourself; the term "salaat" is used to refer to general salaat observance (i.e. during one's lifetime) throughout the entire Qur'an. They are clearly speaking about salaat in general, not in one specific salaat observance... Therefore, if these verses and others use the word "salaat" to refer to general communion/prayer, then the pluralized form ("salawaat" must be referring to a specific number during a specific period of time (i.e. per day, per week, per month, etc.); it's not referring to general salaat upkeepings. If you were correct in the Qur'an referring to TWO daily salaat observances, it would use the term "salaatayn"/two prayers, instead of saying "salawaat"/three of more prayers.
According to your theory trusts wich also is written in plural wich you can see in the verse before must be more than two per day wich makes no sence and is completely wrong.
You've gotta be kidding me... ) There's no pluralized general term for "trusts/securities"; this is just the basic plural form of it, which could be all of one's trusts in one day, one week, one month, one year, or one lifetime. These two terms aren't even comparable.
Peace,
Ahmad
-
Peace Hpesc,
This is wrong. The fact that it is written in the plural form shows that it's NOT general, and it emphasizes a specific number (THREE OR MORE). There are only 5 instances where this is emphasized throughout the entire Qur'an (one is possessive and doesn't say "salawaat". However, there are plenty of passages that speak of salaat in general. I quoted these verses
Do you believe these passages to be referring to ONE salaat observance (i.e. 'Keep up the ONE salaat'? That would be illogical. You can even look them up yourself; the term "salaat" is used to refer to general salaat observance (i.e. during one's lifetime) throughout the entire Qur'an. They are clearly speaking about salaat in general, not in one specific salaat observance... Therefore, if these verses and others use the word "salaat" to refer to general communion/prayer, then the pluralized form ("salawaat" must be referring to a specific number during a specific period of time (i.e. per day, per week, per month, etc.); it's not referring to general salaat upkeepings. If you were correct in the Qur'an referring to TWO daily salaat observances, it would use the term "salaatayn"/two prayers, instead of saying "salawaat"/three of more prayers.
You've gotta be kidding me... There's no pluralized general term for "trusts/securities"; this is just the basic plural form of it, which could be all of one's trusts in one day, one week, one month, one year, or one lifetime. These two terms aren't even comparable.
Peace,
Ahmad
Peace
In arabic there is trust and plural of it wich is trusts. In this sentence when its plural and don't mean a specified nr then of course you are talking about trusts in general. Its not hard to understand. For example if I in arabic say; be careful with dogs you say be careful minal kil?bi. Wich also means in general wich means not specifically 1, 2 ore three and so on. The trusts example is a perfect example. Even when said salat in many places it also means in general. You can say both singular or plurar and mean in general (=generally speaking) and the trusts example proves it. This is totally clear. I don't understand how you can see it otherwise.
Let me ask you, is your origin north africa?Peace
-
Peace Hpesc,
In arabic there is trust and plural of it wich is trusts. In this sentence when its plural and don't mean a specified nr then of course you are talking about trusts in general. Its not hard to understand. For example if I in arabic say; be careful with dogs you say be careful minal kil?bi. Wich also means in general wich means not specifically 1, 2 ore three and so on. The trusts example is a perfect example. Even when said salat in many places it also means in general. You can say both singular or plurar and mean in general (=generally speaking) and the trusts example proves it. This is totally clear. I don't understand how you can see it otherwise.
Okay... How, then, do you say "two trusts" in Arabic? ) Exactly. The word "trust" is a common subject, and "trusts" is the plural form. However, it can't be called a general pluralized form because THERE'S NO SPECIFIC PLURALIZED FORM. So, like I said, this could refer to the trusts of one day, one week, one month, one year, or one lifetime. This is completely different from "salaat", which can be a singular and a general plural noun.
Let me ask you, is your origin north africa?
I don't understand the question. All of humanity has an origin from northern Africa, most likely between Kemet/Egypt, Nubia/Sudan, or Morocco. I'm no different. So, I guess this means that, yes, I do have an origin/ancestry from North Africa... If you're asking if I was born or raised in North Africa, no, I wasn't born or raised there.
Peace,
Ahmad