The true Islam
-
Assalaam Alaikum @Ahmad
May I suggest you get a cursory understanding of Nominative and Genitive Case construct as it relates to Sura 2.238
Then lets talk.
-
Peace MTR,
May I suggest you get a cursory understanding of Nominative and Genitive Case construct as it relates to Sura 2.238
Then lets talk.
rotfl Okay, guy... )
Peace,
Ahmad
-
Peace Hpesc,
It doesn't say "salawaat" in general... Let's look at the passage in the Qur'an
You shall consistently observe the prayers ("salawaat", the middle prayer ("alsalaat alwusta", and devote yourselves to Allah. (223
Now, this emphasis on "salawaat" can't be general because if that was the case, then "salaat al-wusta" would be redundant. This shows a clear distinction between "salawaat" and "salaat al-wusta". When placing them side by side, even in translation, it is grammatically incorrect to say, "Observe the prayers throughout your life, especially the middle prayer..." unless both of them are general plurals or unless both of them are singular. Therefore, since the term "alsalaat alwusta" is referring to a distinct salaat observance in ONE DAY, then the term "salawaat" must also be referring to ONE DAY. Since "alsalaat alwusta" is expected to be observed DAILY, we must also observe the "salawaat" DAILY. This is basic grammar in all languages, including Arabic.
Peace,
Ahmad
Ahmad let me assist you, because you dont know what your talking about...
in the Genitive, meaning Salaawati / , plural noun, meaning "Places, Timings & Actions of Salat' 'governs' Al-Salati Al-Wusta / , plural noun meaning 'After Noon, Midday Salah", again in the Genitive
This is so simple, Salaawati / is the 'box' referencing ALL the Prayers with there respective timings, movements and places. Al-Salati Al-Wusta / is in the 'box' with the other Salah.
In addition, there is more than ONE 'After Noon' Salah, Asr, Maghrib & Isha are scheduled 'After Noon'!
Again, In those parts of the world where its daylight for 24 hours for 6 months, the 'plurality' of Al-Salati Al-Wusta / , would continue to sustain their scheduled Salah timings for Asr, Maghrib & Isha.
-
Peace MTR,
in the Genitive, meaning Salaawati / , plural noun, meaning "Places, Timings & Actions of Salat' 'governs' Al-Salati Al-Wusta / , plural noun meaning 'After Noon, Midday Salah", again in the Genitive
This is so simple, Salaawati / is the 'box' referencing ALL the Prayers with there respective timings, movements and places. Al-Salati Al-Wusta / is in the 'box' with the other Salah.
In addition, there is more than ONE 'After Noon' Salah, Asr, Maghrib & Isha are scheduled 'After Noon'!
Again, In those parts of the world where its daylight for 24 hours for 6 months, the 'plurality' of Al-Salati Al-Wusta / , would continue to sustain their scheduled Salah timings for Asr, Maghrib & Isha.
hmm Again, I see that it is you who don't know what you're talking about, brother. Your theory would make a lot of sense if "wusta" actually meant midday, afternoon, or anything like that. Unfortuately for you, though, IT DOESN'T. The Arabic word "wusta" means "middle". So, "alsalaat alwusta" literally means MIDDLE PRAYER, not afternoon prayer, midday prayer, or anything like that. It ("wusta" means MIDDLE. In order for there to be a "middle" salaat, there must be at THREE SALAAT OBSERVANCES (based on an odd number). Plus, it would make sense if the "asr" or "maghrib" salaat observances were mentioned in the Qur'an as being in the "middle"; but unfortunately for you, THEY'RE NOT... Also, the word "salawaat" is the plural form of "salaat"; your statement that it means "Places, Timings & Actions of Salat" is completely false. You need to get rid of that Arabic dictionary, brother, seriously. It's misguiding you...
Peace,
Ahmad
-
Ahmad, stop 'frontin', your not that tight....I dont know what community your from in the States, but Im out on the Westside, we dont 'front', we are serious about ours, dont get it twisted, I can stretch you out, where you wont have any get back....I already asked you a basic question in another thread, you started scratchin your head and pullin at the back of your trousers....
alwusta midmost, middle most;occupy the middle position, AFTERNOON
Hans Wehr Arabic English Dictionary 4th Edition page 1250Now write the publisher of Hans Wehr and tell them that you dont want 'wusta' to mean 'Afternoon'.
If you are successful I will take my Sarf lessons from you.
-
Peace MTR,
I dont know what community your from in the States, but Im out on the Westside, we dont 'front', we are serious about ours, dont get it twisted, I can stretch you out, where you wont have any get back....I already asked you a basic question in another thread, you started scratchin your head and pullin at the back of your trousers....
alwusta midmost, middle most;occupy the middle position, AFTERNOON
Hans Wehr Arabic English Dictionary 4th Edition page 1250Now write the publisher of Hans Wehr and tell them that you dont want 'wusta' to mean 'Afternoon'.
If you are successful I will take my Sarf lessons from you.
Wow... You've gotta be kidding me, joe. Throwing threats out while hiding behind a computer screen...? I guess the westside's really tough. You're probably from Idaho or Oregon, or somewhere like that... ) Anyway, nobody needs to look up Hans Wehr to know what the Arabic word "wusta" means; just ask anybody who speaks the Arabic language. In general greetings, "afternoon" is "masaa". In literal daily translation, "afternoon" is "asr". Trust me, dude, there's a big difference between "al-asr" and "al-wusta". One means "the afternoon", and the other means "the middle". Can you tell which one is which? I challenge you to look in any unbiased Arabic dictionary, and show me where "wusta" means "afternoon". In fact, ask any of the other Arabic speakers on this website, and ask them the meaning of "wusta". And like I said, you need to get rid of that false English/Arabic dictionary; it is seriously misleading you...
By the way, 2Pac is dead, and the Outlawz suck... rotfl
Peace,
Ahmad
-
Peace Hpesc,
I know Arabic pretty well, and I don't have to be an Arab to understand the language. The concept of general plural nouns is not based on Arabic language at all; it's a system used in ALL languages. Just as you pointed out, the proper statement would be "intibi minal darbat". Specifically saying "two beatings" would be unnecessary, since "darbat" is both a singular and a general plural noun. This is the case in all languages. A plural noun is not used as a general plural; in almost all case, a general plural noun is SINGULAR. This is why I said this
This is not just the case with the Qur'an; it's the case in basic language. If "salaat" is singular and "salawaat" is plural, then the general plural is also singular (i.e. "salaat". Maybe your being an Arab makes you more ignorant of this fact, since you obviously feel you have all the answers... I challenge you to do some research on what the Qur'an means by these passages
We revealed to Musa and his brother, "Settle your people in houses in Egypt and make your houses places of worship and perform prayer (Salaat) and give good news to the believers." (1087)
They said, "Shu'ayb, do your prayers (Salaat) instruct you that we should abandon what our fathers worshipped or stop doing whatever we want to with our wealth? You are clearly the forbearing, the rightly-guided!" (1187)
Are these referring to observing ONE (SINGULAR) SALAAT? Or is this speaking about the general pluralized salaat, meaning throughout their lifetime? It even says of Jesus
"He made me blessed wherever I go, and enjoined me to observe the prayers (Salaat) and give the alms for as long as I live." (1931)
In this passage, Jesus actually says that Jesus upheld the SALAAT (singular) for AS LONG AS HE LIVES, or throughout his lifetime. Clearly, this isn't speaking about one specific salaat observance; it's talking about regular, daily salaat observances throughout his life. This proves that salaat, in this case, is definately plural, not singular. Or am I wrong in interpreting this? Since you're a native Arabic speaker, you should know best...
Peace,
Ahmad
Peace
Darbat is not singular. Darba or Darb is singular, darbatani is dual and darbat or in real arabic darabat is plural. And both plural and singular can be used in generally just like in the Quran. Salawat in the Quran is meaning in generally.Peace
-
alwusta midmost, middle most;occupy the middle position, AFTERNOON
Hans Wehr Arabic English Dictionary 4th Edition page 1250Hello,
The Hans Wehr Arabic English Dictionary is a dictionnary of modern written Arabic.
So, you can not deem it a reliable material for studying the Quran.Peace
-
Peace Hpesc,
It doesn't say "salawaat" in general... Let's look at the passage in the Qur'an
You shall consistently observe the prayers ("salawaat", the middle prayer ("alsalaat alwusta", and devote yourselves to Allah. (223
Now, this emphasis on "salawaat" can't be general because if that was the case, then "salaat al-wusta" would be redundant. This shows a clear distinction between "salawaat" and "salaat al-wusta". When placing them side by side, even in translation, it is grammatically incorrect to say, "Observe the prayers throughout your life, especially the middle prayer..." unless both of them are general plurals or unless both of them are singular. Therefore, since the term "alsalaat alwusta" is referring to a distinct salaat observance in ONE DAY, then the term "salawaat" must also be referring to ONE DAY. Since "alsalaat alwusta" is expected to be observed DAILY, we must also observe the "salawaat" DAILY. This is basic grammar in all languages, including Arabic.
Peace,
Ahmad
Peace
I didnt say it says Salawat in generally. I said it says salawat and means in generally. It was you who said that it saying salawat per day.
In arabic you can say beware of dogs (kilab) and especially the black dog (kalb) without both of them have to be general plurals nor both of them singular just like in the Quran. Both salat and salawat can be used as in generally just like in the Quran.Peace
-
Ahmad let me assist you, because you dont know what your talking about...
in the Genitive, meaning Salaawati / , plural noun, meaning "Places, Timings & Actions of Salat' 'governs' Al-Salati Al-Wusta / , plural noun meaning 'After Noon, Midday Salah", again in the Genitive
This is so simple, Salaawati / is the 'box' referencing ALL the Prayers with there respective timings, movements and places. Al-Salati Al-Wusta / is in the 'box' with the other Salah.
In addition, there is more than ONE 'After Noon' Salah, Asr, Maghrib & Isha are scheduled 'After Noon'!
Again, In those parts of the world where its daylight for 24 hours for 6 months, the 'plurality' of Al-Salati Al-Wusta / , would continue to sustain their scheduled Salah timings for Asr, Maghrib & Isha.
Peace
There are only two prayers per day.Peace
-
Peace MTR,
hmm Again, I see that it is you who don't know what you're talking about, brother. Your theory would make a lot of sense if "wusta" actually meant midday, afternoon, or anything like that. Unfortuately for you, though, IT DOESN'T. The Arabic word "wusta" means "middle". So, "alsalaat alwusta" literally means MIDDLE PRAYER, not afternoon prayer, midday prayer, or anything like that. It ("wusta" means MIDDLE. In order for there to be a "middle" salaat, there must be at THREE SALAAT OBSERVANCES (based on an odd number). Plus, it would make sense if the "asr" or "maghrib" salaat observances were mentioned in the Qur'an as being in the "middle"; but unfortunately for you, THEY'RE NOT... Also, the word "salawaat" is the plural form of "salaat"; your statement that it means "Places, Timings & Actions of Salat" is completely false. You need to get rid of that Arabic dictionary, brother, seriously. It's misguiding you...
Peace,
Ahmad
Peace
Middle means in the middle of day (yaom) between the day (nahar) and night (layl) wich is the night prayer (isha).Peace
-
Ahmad, stop 'frontin', your not that tight....I dont know what community your from in the States, but Im out on the Westside, we dont 'front', we are serious about ours, dont get it twisted, I can stretch you out, where you wont have any get back....I already asked you a basic question in another thread, you started scratchin your head and pullin at the back of your trousers....
alwusta midmost, middle most;occupy the middle position, AFTERNOON
Hans Wehr Arabic English Dictionary 4th Edition page 1250Now write the publisher of Hans Wehr and tell them that you dont want 'wusta' to mean 'Afternoon'.
If you are successful I will take my Sarf lessons from you.
Peace
Actually wusta means middle. Asr means afternoon.Peace
-
The meaning of wusta has already been discussed in numerous topics.
For example http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7727.0Please use the seach function of the forum.
Peace
-
Assalaam Alaikum
@Ahmad, your so myopic you cant tell the difference between a metaphor and a rhetorical statement...sitdown, take a break
@JM...I dont believe you about Hans Wehr, so now what?
Lastly, you folks are so stuck from the Free Minds Arabic 'translation' which lacks the Harakat, that you cant derive correct, gender, tense and number.
Wusta is an ADJECTIVE describing the 'plurality' of the Midday, After Noon Salah....
Just in case you forgot Midday starts at Noon and continues throughout the AFTERNOON.
Again its part of the case construct....
Salawat is PLURAL As-Salati is PLURAL the adjective is Al-Wusta, that defines Salati, When? Midday How Long? Thru the Afternoon How many? Asr, Maghrib, Isha
thats simple grammar in ANY language
-
Peace,
I didnt say it says Salawat in generally. I said it says salawat and means in generally. It was you who said that it saying salawat per day.
In arabic you can say beware of dogs (kilab) and especially the black dog (kalb) without both of them have to be general plurals nor both of them singular just like in the Quran. Both salat and salawat can be used as in generally just like in the Quran.This may very well be the case. However, IN THIS INSTANCE, it's not correct. Since "alsalaat alwusta" is referring to one particular salaat observances in a ONE DAY PERIOD, the "alsalawaat" must be talking about a group of salaat observances during the same ONE DAY PERIOD. It's not necessarily about general plural and singular nouns; it's about how the word is used in this instance... I've never seen where "salawaat" is used as a general plural noun, especially since it's already a plural noun. Now, can it be used generally in a plural sense (i.e. "Uphold the salawaat"? Yes, of course. But in this case, it's not used this way, and I haven't seen anywhere else in the Qur'an where it's used this way either. The generalized plural form is always the singular usage (i.e. "Uphold the salaat". That's why this can be measured in the setting of one day. If I said this, it would imply the same grammatical message
Remember to take out the dogs, especially the black dog, and feed them when they come inside the house.
If you're referring to the dogs being taken in a general sense, then this would be grammatically incorrect, since no time period is relayed for the black dog. However, if you're speaking about taking out the black dog TODAY, this implies that all the other dogs must also be taken out the TODAY. It's the same way in the case of 'salaat al wusta'; since the passage is referring to observing the 'salaat al wusta'/middle prayer EVERYDAY, it's implying that you must also observe the 'salawaat'/three or more prayers EVERYDAY.
Peace,
Ahmad
-
The Hans Wehr Arabic English Dictionary is a dictionnary of modern written Arabic.
So, you can not deem it a reliable material for studying the Quran.@JM...I dont believe you about Hans Wehr, so now what?
You just have to look at the first words of the first page of it.
http//www.ghazali.org/books/wehr-cowan-76.pdfPeace
-
Peace MTR,
@Ahmad, your so myopic you cant tell the difference between a metaphor and a rhetorical statement...sitdown, take a break
Wow, calm down, buddy. I was just joking, and I made that pretty clear when I made the statement about 2Pac... You need to take a seat, and let your blood pressure go down a little...
Wusta is an ADJECTIVE describing the 'plurality' of the Midday, After Noon Salah....
Just in case you forgot Midday starts at Noon and continues throughout the AFTERNOON.
This is wrong, brother, WRONG. The Arabic word "wusta" doesn't have anything to do with time periods and midday segments. The word "wusta"/middle can be applied to anything. It doesn't mean noon, midday, or anything like that. It simply means "MIDDLE". It can also be translated as "best" or "balanced", but that doesn't apply in this context. So, if the scriptural passage says "salaat al WUSTA", it simply means the salaat observance in the MIDDLE of the other ones. Since there are two other mandatory salaat times described in the Qur'an (i.e. morning and evening), then the MIDDLE part between these two would be (1) noon and (2) midnight. Both are directly in the middle of the other two prescribed times... Sunni Moslems falsely attributed this word "wusta" to mean "afternoon" because it is in the MIDDLE of their 5 daily salaat, actually being "salaat al asr". But in reality, "wusta" doesn't have anything to do with the afternoon at all...
Salawat is PLURAL As-Salati is PLURAL the adjective is Al-Wusta, that defines Salati, When? Midday How Long? Thru the Afternoon How many? Asr, Maghrib, Isha
This is incorrect. Yes, "salawaat" is plural, meaning three or more salaat observances. However, "salaat" is SINGULAR, whether the context sets it as "salaati" or "salaata"; it's the same thing. The phrase "al-wusta" means "the middle". So, "salaat al wusta" literally means "prayer in the middle". You don't need a dictionary to translate this, brother.
SALAAT = prayer (singular, one)
AL = the
WUSTA = middleAL = the
SALAWAAT = prayers (plural, three or more)
SALAATAYN = prayers (plural, two)Now, can you determine what the message of 2238 is saying?
Peace,
Ahmad
-
Ahmad, You dont get it
They are PLURAL....Genitive and Construct Case.....ALL PLURAL NOUNS!
Wusta is a Predicate!
"nominal sentences." Those are the sentences which begin with a noun word. The part of the sentence that is before the hidden (i.e. the subject) is called mubtada'< the start. The part after the As-Salawati & As-Salati is the predicate, Al-Wusta in Arabic khabar = the predicate.
Salawat is PLURAL As-Salati is PLURAL the adjective is Al-Wusta, that defines Salati, When? Midday How Long? Thru the Afternoon How many? Asr, Maghrib, Isha
Do some research Ahmad..
-
As-Salati is PLURAL
Could you bring evidence for this form a dictionary, please ?
Peace
-
Assalaam Alaikum @JM
No need to rehash these points.....
In the references given, 2.3, 2.45, 2.110 & 7.170 Salata is plural.
Salata
Is a Irregular Plural Noun, the root pattern Sad-Lam-Waw has been 'broken' with the tarmubutah
Salata is grammatically Singular but semantically Plural (See 'broken plural' rule)
The following are SINGULAR references to Salah
So he did not verify it / saddaqa and did not SALLA / PRAY.
salla (Singular, Verbal Form II, Perfect) someone prayed
salli ( Singular, Verbal Form II, Perfect) You pray
yusalli (Singular, Verbal Form II, Imperfect) He is prayingPLURAL reference to Salah
They are those on whom (Descend) blessings from Allah, and Mercy, and they are the ones that receive guidance.
Al-Baqarah 2.238] Be preserver over the SALAWAT / PRAYERS
salawatun / salawati(Plural Noun, Used in Nominative & Genitive Case) Prayers, Blessings
Dictionary of the Holy Quran page 320
salaatayn?, I dont believe thats even a word.