The Myth that Women have to "Obey" their Husbands
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Salaam Truth_Seeker
Please forgive me if I say that your understanding of this verse is not different from that of "apologetic" traditionalists.
The key word in the first sentence of this verse is qawwamun. This word has been translated variously as protectors and maintainers (of women), in charge (of women), having preeminence (above women), and sovereigns or masters (over women). Linguistically, the word qawwamun means breadwinners or those who provide a means of support or livelihood. A point of logic that must be made here is that the first sentence is not a descriptive one stating that all men as a matter of fact are providing for women. What the sentence is stating, rather, is that men ought to have the capability to provide (since ought implies can". In other words, this statement, which popular Muslim culture and tradition have regarded as an actual description of all men, is, in fact, a normative statement pertaining to the Islamic concept of division of labor in an ideal family or community structure. The fact that men are qawwamun does not mean that women cannot or should not provide for themselves, but simply that in view of the heavy burden that most women shoulder in childbearing and rearing, they should not have the additional obligation of providing the means of living as well at the same time.
And this is exactly what traditionalists say (underlined). But this sentence IS a statement, and should be a valid one. To be valid, "rijaal" and not men only should really be providors over "nisaa'" and not only women. To understand the real meaning of rijal and nisaa, please refer to the usage of these words in the quraan.
The word ?salihat,? which is translated as ?righteously obedient,? is related to the word ?salahiat,? which means ?capability? or ?potentiality.? A woman?s special capability is to bear children, and she carries and protects the fetus in her womb until it can be safely delivered.
Does this mean that awoman who's not capable of bearing children is not "saliha"?
What about unmarried women? Who is to provide for them?The interpretation that seems to be the most appropriate contextually is that some men are more blessed with the means to be better providers than are other men.
...and at the end of the day, it's only men who are providors! What about women who are providors (and they are not a negligeable percentage)?
This verse should be applicable to all societies all the time. If we speak of males being the providors of females, can this be applicable outsde marriage? The verse does not start by couples or states any relation between those "ijaal" and those "nisaa" For example, it does not say (ar-rijaalu qawwaamuuna 3alaa nisaa'ihim men are providors over their woemn/wives). So, who's the providor for the unmarried, divorced, widows, children, old people, disabled..etc? Are they always the men?
Thus, during the period of a woman?s childbearing, the function of breadwinning must be performed by men (not just husbands) in the Muslim ?ummah.?
Quraan is for humanity, not a "Muslim Ummah". The verse, if read correctly, should apply naturally to any ummah. Making men the sole providor is neither logical nor factual, and it does not apply even to a "Muslim Ummah".
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Salaam Truth_Seeker
Please forgive me if I say that your understanding of this verse is not different from that of "apologetic" traditionalists.
And this is exactly what traditionalists say (underlined). But this sentence IS a statement, and should be a valid one. To be valid, "rijaal" and not men only should really be providors over "nisaa'" and not only women. To understand the real meaning of rijal and nisaa, please refer to the usage of these words in the quraan.Hello, Samia. Perhaps what I wrote wasn?t clear so I will explain it a bit further. What I stated is that Surah An-Nisa 34 is not addressed to husbands as believed by most Muslim men, but rather the entire community ? both men and women. It does not say that women should not or cannot be the providers/breadwinners as well as men, but rather who is responsible for providing a means of support given the following when a woman is pregnant. That particular responsibility during that time falls on men. It is not about who is superior or who should be obedient. It is about what is fair and just. It is to prevent a situation where a pregnant woman is abandoned or left to fend for herself, without much support from the community. This surely does not constitute a just situation. If children are the wealth and future of the community, the importance of protecting the function of childbearing (and childrearing) becomes self-evident.
What Surah An-Nisa 34 is ensuring is that this does not happen. It calls upon men in general to assume responsibility for women in general when they are performing the vitally important function of childbearing (other passages in the Qur?an extend this also to childrearing). Thus the intent of this passage, which has traditionally been used to subordinate women to men, is in fact to guarantee women the material (as well as moral) security needed by them during the period of pregnancy when breadwinning can become difficult or even impossible for them.
Does this mean that awoman who's not capable of bearing children is not "saliha"?
What about unmarried women? Who is to provide for them?Samia, perhaps you skipped over this part
?Since only women can bear children (which is not to say either that all women should bear children or that women?s sole function is to bear children) ? a function whose importance in the survival of any community cannot be questioned ? they should not have the additional obligation of being breadwinners while they perform this function.?The verse is about ensuring that pregnant women will be properly cared for by designating men as providers during this time. It is intended to ensure justice in the community as a whole. It does not go beyond that, and it does not imply that women cannot also provide for themselves or their families. Most Muslim women I know do.
...and at the end of the day, it's only men who are providors! What about women who are providors (and they are not a negligeable percentage)?
This is the wording in most translations of the Qur?an I have seen; this is also the wording posted on Wikipedia
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An-Nisa,_34
Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great. The Qur'an, chapter 4 (An-Nisa), verse 34 (translated by M. H. Shakir)
This translation is completely off and really makes no sense. The piece parts just don?t fit together. It is ridiculously-translated verses like this that give people reason to criticize and not accept the Qur?an as the word of God. The part underlined is about some men having the means to be better providers, not about God making men superior to women (as it has traditionally been explained). Since it goes without saying that human beings must procreate for the human race to continue, this verse is about the division of functions pertaining to this to ensure justice in the community, and more so than anything else, to ensure justice for women by not subjecting them to abuse and hardship. It does not imply that women cannot or should not provide for themselves or others.
So, no, Samia, it?s not only men who are providers. We all know that, and I?m sure that was the case back then, too. Since the Qur?an makes it clear that men and women stand absolutely equal in the sight of God, that is the interpretation that seems most appropriate for that particular verse which, again, is about ensuring that pregnant women will be properly cared for by designating men as providers during the time of childbearing.
This passage is about caring for and protecting pregnant women, just as the distorted verse which now gives men the right to marry up to 4 girls/women of their choosing (usually young girls) was originally intended to protect and care for the orphans/fatherless children by marrying their mothers/widows. Again, the intent of this passage, which has traditionally been used to subordinate women to men, is to guarantee women the security needed by them during a period of time when breadwinning can become difficult or even impossible for them.
Quraan is for humanity, not a "Muslim Ummah". The verse, if read correctly, should apply naturally to any ummah. Making men the sole providor is neither logical nor factual, and it does not apply even to a "Muslim Ummah".
If read correctly it does apply to any community as it is a guide to ensure justice in any community. I said ?Muslim ummah? since we are discussing the Qur?an and communities who follow the teachings of this book have always been known as Muslim communities. And men are not made the sole providers, but in that particular verse, they are assigned the functions of being breadwinners for the reasons already stated.
Samia, I?m just curious, what is your interpretation of Surah 4 verse 34?
peace
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Is there not a single Muslim who truly understands verse 434? Truth is only found in cleaving to Quran!
(434) Men are the maintainers (qawwam) of women because Allah has made some of them excel the others and because they spend of their wealth. Hence the good women are obedient (qanitat), guarding the unseen which Allah has guarded. And those of them that you fear might rebel (nushuz), admonish them, and abandon them in their beds and beat (adriboo) them. Should they obey you, do not seek a way of harming them, for Allah is Sublime and Great!
In the mosque, at hutbas and discussion circles, we have heard tafsir (interpretation) of this verse over and over again. That men and women were created to different roles. That women should be provided for by their husbands, and that the verse in fact prescribes a greater responsibility and hardship on the men. That the path of the woman is obedience to her husband, because obedience is the only way a woman can be happy. And that the ?admonishment? of the wife is encouraged by God, in order to steer the woman to the right path, as if women are some kind of animal to be trained.
Do you question this verse? Question the tafsir. Question the tafsir a thousand times. The verse can be recited and memorized. But it is through constant engagement with prophecy that we may be guided to the light. And engagement only comes through questioning.
The question of this tafsir must be answered, for there to be a religion of Islam. Most of the people recite the Quran but understand little. In this age of exploration, Islam will not survive unless understanding is raised for the ummah. The people called Sufis possess the understanding, but it is kept secret. But in this age of exploration, if the secrets are kept from the wider people, Islam as a religion will not survive. The people are thirsty from their recitation, their throats are draw and they are now in dire need of water. But water will not be given unless the people ask so ask your questions! Ask and ask again, to save the ummah from its peril!
Let us now engage with this verse and see what deeper meaning is buried there for our benefit.
Men are the maintainers (qawwam) of women because Allah has made some of them excel the others and because they spend of their wealth. Hence the good women are obedient (qanitat), guarding the unseen which Allah has guarded. And those of them that you fear might rebel (nushuz), admonish them, and abandon them in their beds and beat (adriboo) them. Should they obey you, do not seek a way of harming them, for Allah is Sublime and Great! (Verse 434)
Men are the qawwam ? those who take care of and and provide for ? the women. The good women guard the unseen which Allah has guarded. The women to fear are those who create nushuz ? discord, hostility, dissonance. If you fear such women, leave them in their beds and beat, forsake or avoid them (adriboo).
Indeed! Because the secret of the Quran is identical to the secret of the Torah, understood by the Comrades of the Kabbalah.?Men? and ?women?, ?husband? and ?wife? mean something much more than the physical understanding we have.
Ancient knowledge has been remembered in the 20th century we each havemasculine and feminine aspects. Some call these aspects the anima and animus. But Torah and Quran teach the masculine and feminine aspects are more complex they are multiple eminations of God?s Names. The names God breathed into our bodies because we are made in the image of God. We all are have female and male aspects, in different balance. So these verses address humanity, physically male and female.
If this seems implausible, then it is so only due to the groups who so fiercely defend the literal interpretation. But this book is a holy book! It?s not an agony aunt column in the local newspaper! The folly oftheir tafsir verges on blasphemy, but they don?t understand.
In Kabbalah, the feminine name of God that we can realise within is called Shekhinah (Sakina in Arabic). The concept is complex, but is something close to the notion of the unconscious in psychoanalysis the field of language from whence all types of signification may play. But for the sake of our discussion, a simple way of thinking of it is that the Shekhinah is the source of all human creativity. If you paint a picture, then you engage with Shekhinah in a way. If you do an equation, similarly. But essentially, prayer and worship are acts of creativity, where we create an image to ourselves of God (something ultimately unimaginable). As we see with the acts of violence and hatred produced by people in the name of religion, clearly this creative name that has been breathed into us can be corrupted, if our creativity is not realised in a righteous fashion.
But if we are seeking God, then it is the feminine name of creativity, of Shekhinah, that we must realise within ourselves, the first gate that must be entered, in order to ascend.
So the feminine name comes first for the spiritual traveller. The Kabbalists call Shekhinah the ?poor girl?, because this emination is our creative spirit, and, on its own, is not capable of generating any light from God. Instead, it?captures? light from the higher name of God, Ti?fret, the source of prophecy. The words of the Quran itself (and the other holy books) derive from this name, that was realised to its fullest potential in men like Moses and Muhammed. Ordinary folk such as us cannot realise this name, but, through worship as creativity, we may find Shekhinah and, through worship as righteously guided creativity, our Shekhinah may be ?married? to Ti?fret, to prophecy.
In this sense, our feminine aspect is ?maintained? by the light of our masculine aspect. If this is done, then we may move closer to God. In this sense, the masculine aspect of our psyche are commanded to ?spend out of their property?.
The Shekhinah realised within us is righteous if it is obedient in ?marriage? to prophecy. That is, our creativities are ?good women?, ?obedient? and, importantly, ?guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded?. God and the higher spiritual realms are the unseen, but the feminine creativity within us can guard these realms. Guarding here means, protecting against the darkness that can fill our creative spirit if we do not guard this feminine aspect of ourselves, we can create evil in the name of religion, as we see happening again and again.
The last part of the first then is an instruction and warning about how to treat ourselves, how to treat the creative emanation placed within us. ?Those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek.? If you fear your creativity will leave you and move to the darkness, try to make it righteous again, into the light. If that doesn?t work, and your prayers move you to darkness still ? or if you encounter a sect that exchanges love for hatred ? or enter a mosque where death is preached instead of love ? then creativity has been corrupted. If this happens, then beat the unrighteous creativity into submission stop praying and walk away from that mosque. God willing, something better might come your way.
Mythopoetically, if our creative aspect turns unrighteous, becomes a creativity-in-discord, if the song we sing turns from a love song to disharmony, then our feminine aspect turns from Shekhinah into Lilith. Potiphar's wife, who tried to seduce Joseph to her bed, was Lilith. He was righteous and followed the path set down by this verse, because he recognized this potential seduction within himself and, instead of being tempted to join with it, left it at its bed and ran away, forsaking and avoid it (adriboo).
To those who question this verse, to those who question the tafsir of this verse the verse is placed there, especially for you! You indeed have been doubting the dark creative spirits of others who read this verse, take its surface meaning, and perhaps justify it to do evil (such as beating other humans). And you are doing (God willing) what the later part of the verse instructs walking away from that interpretation.
In your journey, always remember the first part of the verse the masculine light of prophecy will provide for our feminine aspect of creativity, and guide us to a righteous worship. So worship with us in this.
May the wife within be wed happily to the husband within, that we might find balance, harmony not discord, righteousness not adultery, and perhaps ascend higher in our journey!
FOR MORE OF THE TAILOR'S DOCTRINE, SEE
http//community.beliefnet.com/profile/3dd92c69ac3187b92fdda7f9763c4119
AND
http//thegoodgarment.wordpress.com/Tailor, interesting analysis but this is too complex for even my mind to comprehend...hehe You have over-analyzed the passage. The Qur?an was not intended to be a puzzle but a simple, straightforward guide on how to live life in accordance with God?s plan. If translated properly (and this must be stressed because many verses pertaining to women are not), it?s quite simple and straightforward. It had to be, given that it was intended for all of humanity to follow. Reading it objectively and in relation to text preceding and following it, as well as keeping in mind that the overarching theme is ?fairness? and ?justice? for all, will guide you to the correct meaning.
Also, just thought I'd point out that ?guarding the unseen?? is simply referring to guarding/protecting the unseen fetus in the womb. That's it, plain and simple.
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Who takes that final decision? Or if both think that they are the perfect ones to lead, and hence their his/her decision must be implemented, what if that decision is very very important and no one wants to let go off it ?
siki
The more stubborn one, because disagreements can go on forever and, well, someone has to give in at some point. D
A marriage should not have to be like a corporation with a "captain/CEO" making all final decisions but rather more like a partnership.
Partnership A relationship between individuals or groups that is characterized by mutual cooperation and responsibility, as for the achievement of a specified goal.
And that goal is, of course, the happiness of the wife... ;D
As Marleya points out, a partnership IS possible.
peace
Peace.
I look around me,and see muslim couples manage themselves,without,no obedience from non.I see couples discuss,and come to a mutual agreement,without nobody have to obey the other.
I dont think a marrige is a ship,that are in need of one captain,there are two adults involved,and mutual agreements,must be the basic.Then there will be no chaos.To be a captain on a ship,you need education,so on a boat it is the person best fit to rule a ship,that is the captain.
Marrige in Islam,is a contract,with mutual benefits.
Every buisness beetween equals,is done with mutual agreement,why is that different,when a woman is involved?She has to be obedient?
No,it is the same old,same old,thinking that a man,is always better equipted,than women,in deeling with life and truth,even when the reality shows us different.Men that kill their wifes,and dont think they are few,79% of all women gets killed by a man that they are in relationship with,or has been.Very often,this men are used to obedience from their wifes,and when they dont,bam.And the men belong to every corner in this world,and with religion or not religion.
Muslim countries have choosen not to deal with their honory killings,that happen every day.Obedience is a key word here,in this sad storys,where men think that if a lady disobey,and by that deforme tha family honour,they can be killed.Jordan for example,have in their criminal laws,the reduced sentences,for husbands,brothers,fathers,that commit this kind of crimes,but most often cases do not go to court.Just forget obedience,and get your minds on mutual agreement.
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Peace
And what an end TruthSeeker bravo
Thank you, Marleya, but I suspect this discussion is not going to end any time soon...
peace
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Peace,
Sa'dah,
You have discovered a lesson in the GENERAL nature of the genders and their inter-relationships. Some men are more receptive to womens' suggestions than others (we all have had mothers whom we are told to respect and listen to) but most men have a problem with women weilding authority over them. ANd I think many women don't know how to handle that and (as with many men as well) handle the authority without being demeaning. And in my opinion men and women should NOT be put in these competitive environments with each other. It only leads to resentment and ill-will. Now we all can adapt to situations we don't like if forced to. But we find ourselves ever increasingly in GENERALLY unnatural environments, and it can cause more problems than need be. I don't think any "liberated" woman will accept the nature of this dynamic and respond accordingly and the times certain don't call for us to have more natural relationships with each other. Women IN GENERAL seem to lash back and attack (rather illogically and over emotionally) whenever it seems that the integrity of their gender is critiqued in any way. I rarely see men seriously defending our gender. Jokingly we do it all the time, but we know we can't vouch for all the other guys out there. I think a little man solidarity would be nice, but obviously not all men are good men. Cultures may vary in the levels of man solidarity, but it is never on the level of woman-solidarity.
We all just need to act like good drones and work together like a Borg society accordin to mainstream society. But that is breaking up our society and our families frankly. It's creating women who are unsuitable for relationships with men and it is causing men to rebel against taking on manly responsibilities which can be undermined and competed for by the one he is trying to care for. Or sometimes these men do not learn them at all, because they grow up feeling undervalued and not needed as men.
My observations have been that men are more principal/philosophy oriented and are more cool-headed in comparison, and women are more pratical- oriented (they want to see those earthly goods needed for survival) and will sacrifice all in order to survive, while also being more emotional and irrational in comparison. These are generals, there are always the grey individuals and everyone has their moments of principal/philosophy, emotion, cool-headedness and irrationality. But I see that strong (generally unprincipaled) survival instinct making women better workers in the 'cut throat' and 'do as your told' work environments we find ourselves in today. That leaves more principaled/philosophically oriented men in tough situations. Of course if your philsophy IS cut throat and do as your told then there's no problem. And in a society that undermines the role of leadership in men and gladly gives it to a woman if she is a better drone . . . Well, that is a recipe for disaster. The woman might see it as liberating but her personal relationships with men suffer greatly because of the outlook that has been encouraged for her to have. And men grow bitter and less tolerant, unless they have some good distractions going on (video games, sports, or they make good money and happen to be the leader in the situation which will mitigate some of the problems that would ensue were he on the underside of the coin).
But I think the Quran strikes a good balance in setting up the man as a leader in his family and in the community but also demanding that he have his ears open, be retrospective, look out for the interest of, and care for the women and children in his family and community as he would look out for himself (ba'dukum min ba'din). And I think the strengths and weakness that men and women have respectively lend towards a more successful family unit and society if a woman is obedient (or biblically submissive) to the men in her life. UNLESS God is on her side and not on the men's side. And in the case where the men disagree (brothers, fathers and grown sons). Well, whoever makes the most sense and has God on his side is to be heeded. But none of that honor-killing stuff. If my sister, daughter or mother were on the path to Hell, i have NO right to try to speed that up. All I can do is pray that they are guided and be there for them when they are in need out of respect for the bond of blood. I think women are to be respected as human beings and never abused. I also think women have valuable experiences that should be utilized where needed and heeded. But I do not think men and women should be competing against each other in society or within the family. And the Quran helps to strike a balance that is good for the men and the women who choose to follow its guidance. Those who don't choose to follow it, can do as they like. Unfortunately the socieiteis we co-exist in are usually non Quranic (sometimes even our very families belong more to these societies than to the Quran), and ARE doing as they like. But we have to resist the temptation to go with the status-quo and live the Quran in our personal lives at the very least. A Quranic community would help us live by the Quran in a better way, but I don't see that dream Quranic community coming along any time soon. Although I would love to see it one day. Until then I'll ask God for patience, ask Him to protect me from Satan and his friends and I'll keep on trucking, and trying to earn my place in Paradise when the Good Lord decides to take me.
I have no god but God. Praises be to Him! (I really see God as an 'It' but that is a linguistic lesson I don't want to give right now).
Five stars.
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I see around, I see common men and women. People married for many years, muslims or non muslims, and what I see in marriages that have lasted a long time is that nobody gives a damn about such a henpecking order. They go about their business, have their little disputes, shout a little over each other, recriminate each other from time to time or every five minutes, depends, and carry along happily and contentedly without ever occurring to them to ask themselves who is in charge or who shoulde be in charge. I find weird that some men find it so endearing to have it stated that marriage needs a chief that that chief should be them. I find it pitiful in a way. So desperate for acknowledgement are they? Do they feel so worthless by themselves without the prop of chieftanship? Why? Because finally, if chieyftainship is pretended and not acknowledged they will have to become tyrants to make it stick or they will have to forget it. I guess the happy ones forget it and hold privately their chieftainship fantasy and the really hopeless ones end up with a broken marriage. In a relationship between equals preminence is doom.
Salam
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I see around, I see common men and women. People married for many years, muslims or non muslims, and what I see in marriages that have lasted a long time is that nobody gives a damn about such a henpecking order. They go about their business, have their little disputes, shout a little over each other, recriminate each other from time to time or every five minutes, depends, and carry along happily and contentedly without ever occurring to them to ask themselves who is in charge or who shoulde be in charge. I find weird that some men find it so endearing to have it stated that marriage needs a chief that that chief should be them. I find it pitiful in a way. So desperate for acknowledgement are they? Do they feel so worthless by themselves without the prop of chieftanship? Why? Because finally, if chieyftainship is pretended and not acknowledged they will have to become tyrants to make it stick or they will have to forget it. I guess the happy ones forget it and hold privately their chieftainship fantasy and the really hopeless ones end up with a broken marriage. In a relationship between equals preminence is doom.
Salam
bravo
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I see around, I see common men and women. People married for many years, muslims or non muslims, and what I see in marriages that have lasted a long time is that nobody gives a damn about such a henpecking order. They go about their business, have their little disputes, shout a little over each other, recriminate each other from time to time or every five minutes, depends, and carry along happily and contentedly without ever occurring to them to ask themselves who is in charge or who shoulde be in charge. I find weird that some men find it so endearing to have it stated that marriage needs a chief that that chief should be them. I find it pitiful in a way. So desperate for acknowledgement are they? Do they feel so worthless by themselves without the prop of chieftanship? Why? Because finally, if chieyftainship is pretended and not acknowledged they will have to become tyrants to make it stick or they will have to forget it. I guess the happy ones forget it and hold privately their chieftainship fantasy and the really hopeless ones end up with a broken marriage. In a relationship between equals preminence is doom.
Salam
You forgot to provide us with some reference to these marriages.
Anyway, what I know of is, that marriages with an individual that has no ability or training to be a boss but is told that they should be a boss, just become bossy. And when someone accepts a boss in a relationship, those subordinates some how become reliant on that ill trained boss. I have personally experienced that. But only with individuals who were not at all trained in either Islamic knowledge or even Quranic knowledge, just their home grown 'translators' knowledge, and themselves love to part of non-islamic societies.
As for the term broken marriages... isn't that a christian term that doesn't exist as divorces are allowed in Islam?
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The believing husband and wife co-operate with mutual understanding and consideration. This originates from their innate believer personalities of being self-sacrificing, caring and understanding. There is not the slightest master-slave inclination in their relationship as they are devoted to Allah and take the Qur'an as their guide.
"One of His signs is that He created for you spouses like your selves so that you may live with them with affection and mercy - there are signs in this for people who reflect" (Qur'an 3021)
www.quranicpath.com | The Myth that Women have to "Obey" their Husbands
Salaam
This is exactly how I understand that obedience is only to Allah and one should rather take the meaning dutiful when talking about the wife's role. There is no master and slave relationship. It's ideally a close relationship like of the garments to the body; one who is aware of her duty as a wife in order to keep the marrage peaceful and nurturing. Co-operative spouses supports each other as garments to each other, protecting the other supporting without displaying a challenging attitute from either side. After all the man is God's gift to the woman, just as the wife is a treasure from God bestowed on her husband, and therefore should be treasured.
peace -
Peace,
A warning to the believing single men here. Stay away from these women (if they are single)!! If they are not single, let me show some sympathy to the husbands if they act like they speak.
There is nothing wrong with obedience of a wife to her husband. Yes her husband is a human being and obedience to God takes precedence but a wife should obey her husband if he is godly and not exceeding the bounds of the Quran. That is how God says it should be and any believing woman who will rebel against her husband with her excuse being 'He's not the boss of me' should be fearful of the Hell-fire. That rebellion is not only in spite of her husband but also in spite of God, and is motivated by pure pride.
God gave the responsible believing man this privaledge for good reason. A I discussed some of that in my post above, that was quoted by Fahad. A woman who rejects this guidance from God should watch out in the hereafter, she might have a shock coming her way. A truly believing, humble woman would have not problem and would not be raising any objections to obeying her believing, responsible and reasonable husband. The same warning goes for the abusive, irresponsible husbands, whatever their excuses are they should fear the hell-fire just as much.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Peace,
A warning to the believing single men here. Stay away from these women (if they are single)!! If they are not single, let me show some sympathy to the husbands if they act like they speak.
Godbless,
AnwarSalaam brother Anwar,
Stay away from what sorts please explain?
.There is nothing wrong with obedience of a wife to her husband. Yes her husband is a human being and obedience to God takes precedence but a wife should obey her husband if he is godly and not exceeding the bounds of the Quran. That is how God says it should be and any believing woman who will rebel against her husband with her excuse being 'He's not the boss of me' should be fearful of the Hell-fire. That rebellion is not only in spite of her husband but also in spite of God, and is motivated by pure pride.
Is it pure pride that some men like world obdience then dutiful, why do you prefer the word obedient to dutiful? What is wrong with being dutiful the meaning of which is so much wider, and entails the fulfilling of what is expected of you by God and by man?
God gave the responsible believing man this privaledge for good reason.
God does not give a benefit for nothing and when the children of Israel were given their privileges it was under the auspices of the covenant. So the first step should be to find out the obligations connected with any privilege
A woman who rejects this guidance from God should watch out in the hereafter, she might have a shock coming her way.
Same goes for men
A truly believing, humble woman would have not problem and would not be raising any objections to obeying her believing, responsible and reasonable husband.
A believing woman would not need to be told she would be well aware of her duties.
The same warning goes for the abusive, irresponsible husbands, whatever their excuses are they should fear the hell-fire just as much.
Yet he should be obeyed ???
peace -
So if women obeying their husbands is a myth... then what about women obeying their parents (quran 29?
And We instructed the human to be good to his parents. But if they strive to make you set up partners with Me, then do not obey them. To Me are all your destinies, and I will inform you of what you used to do.Salaam FAR
As I understand to be good to his parents would also include doing your duty to your parents including looking after them without them ordering to do so.12 100. And he raised his parents high on the throne ..Joseph did not have to be told he did his duty as a good son of his parentsBut if try to take advantage of their status as a parent then, 4 135. O ye who believe! stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents,
and if they / force you to set up partner with God then you do not obey them as they are forcing their belief on you. Rebellion causes greif for the parents but in this exceptional case you do not need to please them by being humble to them in kindness otherwise there is no such command that one shoud obey their parents.Reference of the kindness your PARENTS
283 283 And remember We took a covenant from the Children of Israel (to this effect) Worship none but Allah. treat with kindness your PARENTS and kindred, and orphans and those in need; speak fair to the people; be steadfast in prayer; and practise regular charity. Then did ye turn back, except a few among you, and ye backslide (even now).436 Serve Allah, and join not any partners with Him; and do good- to parents,
6 151. Say "Come, I will rehearse what Allah hath (really) prohibited you from" Join not anything as equal with Him; be good to your parents;1723 Thy Lord hath decreed that ye worship none but Him, and that ye be kind to parents.
- And We have enjoined on man (to be good) to his parents in travail upon travail did his mother bear him, and in years twain was his weaning (hear the command), "Show gratitude to Me and to thy parents to Me is (thy final) Goal.
46 15. We have enjoined on man kindness to his parents
peace -
Peace,
Farida, I don't have to explain myself. What I said was crystal clear. The fact that you completely misinterpreted my last sentence is proof enough (husbands who are abusive and irresponsible should be divorced). As for the choice of words, dutiful sounds good. My first instinct is to say tomay-toes, tomah-toes. But the Quran chose the word obedient. If that also entails being dutiful, sounds good. Again, tomay-toes, tomah-toes. You have issues with the word obedient. Those are your issues, and you should work that out on your own. If you disagree with what i'm saying . . .if the shoe fits . . .
Godbless,
Anwar -
A conversation I overheard not too long ago
Wife Dear husband, she is only 10 years old; she is not ready for marriage. And how could you possibly give her away to a man three times her age?! How could you possibly do such a thing without discussing it with me first?!
Husband I am the captain of this ship and you must not question my decisions. The man has promised me that he will not sleep with her until she reaches puberty and I trust him.
Wife Oh foolish husband o? mine, he will not keep his promise. I have seen him; I can tell. Call it woman?s intuition, but trust me, I can sense that he is not a good man. She is just a child and is not mentally, emotionally or physically ready for marriage, even upon reaching puberty. Please listen to me and don?t do this to our child. She will be miserable.
Husband Silence! How dare you question my decisions!! My decision stands. I am the man here and you all must do as I say. She is to marry him next month.
A few months later, she?s in the news
http//www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/07/15/yemen.childbride/index.html
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A conversation I overheard not too long ago
Wife Dear husband, she is only 10 years old; she is not ready for marriage. And how could you possibly give her away to a man three times her age?! How could you possibly do such a thing without discussing it with me first?!
Husband I am the captain of this ship and you must not question my decisions. The man has promised me that he will not sleep with her until she reaches puberty and I trust him.
Wife Oh foolish husband o mine, he will not keep his promise. I have seen him; I can tell. Call it womans intuition, but trust me, I can sense that he is not a good man. She is just a child and is not mentally, emotionally or physically ready for marriage, even upon reaching puberty. Please listen to me and dont do this to our child. She will be miserable.
Husband Silence! How dare you question my decisions!! My decision stands. I am the man here and you all must do as I say. She is to marry him next month.
A few months later, shes in the news
http//www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/07/15/yemen.childbride/index.html
Yes I would have married her to someone older. Most males who are three times older than a 10 year old menarchecal female are far too young to have passed through the andropausal stage.
Ah... the girl hadn't reached puberty, so said the judge.
http//articles.latimes.com/2008/jun/11/world/fg-childbride11
The girl has refused to see a psychologist or a gynecologist. She says she doesnt like doctors. And besides, she says, the experience has made her stronger and wiser.
She says shes had enough of marriage and domestic life, and looks forward to beginning third grade and pursuing dreams she never knew she had.
I want to defend oppressed people, she says. I want to be like Shada. I want to be an example for all the other girls.
An example for all the other girls?
As for what the parents said... do you have proof?