The Myth that Women have to "Obey" their Husbands
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I see around, I see common men and women. People married for many years, muslims or non muslims, and what I see in marriages that have lasted a long time is that nobody gives a damn about such a henpecking order. They go about their business, have their little disputes, shout a little over each other, recriminate each other from time to time or every five minutes, depends, and carry along happily and contentedly without ever occurring to them to ask themselves who is in charge or who shoulde be in charge. I find weird that some men find it so endearing to have it stated that marriage needs a chief that that chief should be them. I find it pitiful in a way. So desperate for acknowledgement are they? Do they feel so worthless by themselves without the prop of chieftanship? Why? Because finally, if chieyftainship is pretended and not acknowledged they will have to become tyrants to make it stick or they will have to forget it. I guess the happy ones forget it and hold privately their chieftainship fantasy and the really hopeless ones end up with a broken marriage. In a relationship between equals preminence is doom.
Salam
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I see around, I see common men and women. People married for many years, muslims or non muslims, and what I see in marriages that have lasted a long time is that nobody gives a damn about such a henpecking order. They go about their business, have their little disputes, shout a little over each other, recriminate each other from time to time or every five minutes, depends, and carry along happily and contentedly without ever occurring to them to ask themselves who is in charge or who shoulde be in charge. I find weird that some men find it so endearing to have it stated that marriage needs a chief that that chief should be them. I find it pitiful in a way. So desperate for acknowledgement are they? Do they feel so worthless by themselves without the prop of chieftanship? Why? Because finally, if chieyftainship is pretended and not acknowledged they will have to become tyrants to make it stick or they will have to forget it. I guess the happy ones forget it and hold privately their chieftainship fantasy and the really hopeless ones end up with a broken marriage. In a relationship between equals preminence is doom.
Salam
bravo
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I see around, I see common men and women. People married for many years, muslims or non muslims, and what I see in marriages that have lasted a long time is that nobody gives a damn about such a henpecking order. They go about their business, have their little disputes, shout a little over each other, recriminate each other from time to time or every five minutes, depends, and carry along happily and contentedly without ever occurring to them to ask themselves who is in charge or who shoulde be in charge. I find weird that some men find it so endearing to have it stated that marriage needs a chief that that chief should be them. I find it pitiful in a way. So desperate for acknowledgement are they? Do they feel so worthless by themselves without the prop of chieftanship? Why? Because finally, if chieyftainship is pretended and not acknowledged they will have to become tyrants to make it stick or they will have to forget it. I guess the happy ones forget it and hold privately their chieftainship fantasy and the really hopeless ones end up with a broken marriage. In a relationship between equals preminence is doom.
Salam
You forgot to provide us with some reference to these marriages.
Anyway, what I know of is, that marriages with an individual that has no ability or training to be a boss but is told that they should be a boss, just become bossy. And when someone accepts a boss in a relationship, those subordinates some how become reliant on that ill trained boss. I have personally experienced that. But only with individuals who were not at all trained in either Islamic knowledge or even Quranic knowledge, just their home grown 'translators' knowledge, and themselves love to part of non-islamic societies.
As for the term broken marriages... isn't that a christian term that doesn't exist as divorces are allowed in Islam?
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The believing husband and wife co-operate with mutual understanding and consideration. This originates from their innate believer personalities of being self-sacrificing, caring and understanding. There is not the slightest master-slave inclination in their relationship as they are devoted to Allah and take the Qur'an as their guide.
"One of His signs is that He created for you spouses like your selves so that you may live with them with affection and mercy - there are signs in this for people who reflect" (Qur'an 3021)
www.quranicpath.com | The Myth that Women have to "Obey" their Husbands
Salaam
This is exactly how I understand that obedience is only to Allah and one should rather take the meaning dutiful when talking about the wife's role. There is no master and slave relationship. It's ideally a close relationship like of the garments to the body; one who is aware of her duty as a wife in order to keep the marrage peaceful and nurturing. Co-operative spouses supports each other as garments to each other, protecting the other supporting without displaying a challenging attitute from either side. After all the man is God's gift to the woman, just as the wife is a treasure from God bestowed on her husband, and therefore should be treasured.
peace -
Peace,
A warning to the believing single men here. Stay away from these women (if they are single)!! If they are not single, let me show some sympathy to the husbands if they act like they speak.
There is nothing wrong with obedience of a wife to her husband. Yes her husband is a human being and obedience to God takes precedence but a wife should obey her husband if he is godly and not exceeding the bounds of the Quran. That is how God says it should be and any believing woman who will rebel against her husband with her excuse being 'He's not the boss of me' should be fearful of the Hell-fire. That rebellion is not only in spite of her husband but also in spite of God, and is motivated by pure pride.
God gave the responsible believing man this privaledge for good reason. A I discussed some of that in my post above, that was quoted by Fahad. A woman who rejects this guidance from God should watch out in the hereafter, she might have a shock coming her way. A truly believing, humble woman would have not problem and would not be raising any objections to obeying her believing, responsible and reasonable husband. The same warning goes for the abusive, irresponsible husbands, whatever their excuses are they should fear the hell-fire just as much.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Peace,
A warning to the believing single men here. Stay away from these women (if they are single)!! If they are not single, let me show some sympathy to the husbands if they act like they speak.
Godbless,
AnwarSalaam brother Anwar,
Stay away from what sorts please explain?
.There is nothing wrong with obedience of a wife to her husband. Yes her husband is a human being and obedience to God takes precedence but a wife should obey her husband if he is godly and not exceeding the bounds of the Quran. That is how God says it should be and any believing woman who will rebel against her husband with her excuse being 'He's not the boss of me' should be fearful of the Hell-fire. That rebellion is not only in spite of her husband but also in spite of God, and is motivated by pure pride.
Is it pure pride that some men like world obdience then dutiful, why do you prefer the word obedient to dutiful? What is wrong with being dutiful the meaning of which is so much wider, and entails the fulfilling of what is expected of you by God and by man?
God gave the responsible believing man this privaledge for good reason.
God does not give a benefit for nothing and when the children of Israel were given their privileges it was under the auspices of the covenant. So the first step should be to find out the obligations connected with any privilege
A woman who rejects this guidance from God should watch out in the hereafter, she might have a shock coming her way.
Same goes for men
A truly believing, humble woman would have not problem and would not be raising any objections to obeying her believing, responsible and reasonable husband.
A believing woman would not need to be told she would be well aware of her duties.
The same warning goes for the abusive, irresponsible husbands, whatever their excuses are they should fear the hell-fire just as much.
Yet he should be obeyed ???
peace -
So if women obeying their husbands is a myth... then what about women obeying their parents (quran 29?
And We instructed the human to be good to his parents. But if they strive to make you set up partners with Me, then do not obey them. To Me are all your destinies, and I will inform you of what you used to do.Salaam FAR
As I understand to be good to his parents would also include doing your duty to your parents including looking after them without them ordering to do so.12 100. And he raised his parents high on the throne ..Joseph did not have to be told he did his duty as a good son of his parentsBut if try to take advantage of their status as a parent then, 4 135. O ye who believe! stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents,
and if they / force you to set up partner with God then you do not obey them as they are forcing their belief on you. Rebellion causes greif for the parents but in this exceptional case you do not need to please them by being humble to them in kindness otherwise there is no such command that one shoud obey their parents.Reference of the kindness your PARENTS
283 283 And remember We took a covenant from the Children of Israel (to this effect) Worship none but Allah. treat with kindness your PARENTS and kindred, and orphans and those in need; speak fair to the people; be steadfast in prayer; and practise regular charity. Then did ye turn back, except a few among you, and ye backslide (even now).436 Serve Allah, and join not any partners with Him; and do good- to parents,
6 151. Say "Come, I will rehearse what Allah hath (really) prohibited you from" Join not anything as equal with Him; be good to your parents;1723 Thy Lord hath decreed that ye worship none but Him, and that ye be kind to parents.
- And We have enjoined on man (to be good) to his parents in travail upon travail did his mother bear him, and in years twain was his weaning (hear the command), "Show gratitude to Me and to thy parents to Me is (thy final) Goal.
46 15. We have enjoined on man kindness to his parents
peace -
Peace,
Farida, I don't have to explain myself. What I said was crystal clear. The fact that you completely misinterpreted my last sentence is proof enough (husbands who are abusive and irresponsible should be divorced). As for the choice of words, dutiful sounds good. My first instinct is to say tomay-toes, tomah-toes. But the Quran chose the word obedient. If that also entails being dutiful, sounds good. Again, tomay-toes, tomah-toes. You have issues with the word obedient. Those are your issues, and you should work that out on your own. If you disagree with what i'm saying . . .if the shoe fits . . .
Godbless,
Anwar -
A conversation I overheard not too long ago
Wife Dear husband, she is only 10 years old; she is not ready for marriage. And how could you possibly give her away to a man three times her age?! How could you possibly do such a thing without discussing it with me first?!
Husband I am the captain of this ship and you must not question my decisions. The man has promised me that he will not sleep with her until she reaches puberty and I trust him.
Wife Oh foolish husband o? mine, he will not keep his promise. I have seen him; I can tell. Call it woman?s intuition, but trust me, I can sense that he is not a good man. She is just a child and is not mentally, emotionally or physically ready for marriage, even upon reaching puberty. Please listen to me and don?t do this to our child. She will be miserable.
Husband Silence! How dare you question my decisions!! My decision stands. I am the man here and you all must do as I say. She is to marry him next month.
A few months later, she?s in the news
http//www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/07/15/yemen.childbride/index.html
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A conversation I overheard not too long ago
Wife Dear husband, she is only 10 years old; she is not ready for marriage. And how could you possibly give her away to a man three times her age?! How could you possibly do such a thing without discussing it with me first?!
Husband I am the captain of this ship and you must not question my decisions. The man has promised me that he will not sleep with her until she reaches puberty and I trust him.
Wife Oh foolish husband o mine, he will not keep his promise. I have seen him; I can tell. Call it womans intuition, but trust me, I can sense that he is not a good man. She is just a child and is not mentally, emotionally or physically ready for marriage, even upon reaching puberty. Please listen to me and dont do this to our child. She will be miserable.
Husband Silence! How dare you question my decisions!! My decision stands. I am the man here and you all must do as I say. She is to marry him next month.
A few months later, shes in the news
http//www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/07/15/yemen.childbride/index.html
Yes I would have married her to someone older. Most males who are three times older than a 10 year old menarchecal female are far too young to have passed through the andropausal stage.
Ah... the girl hadn't reached puberty, so said the judge.
http//articles.latimes.com/2008/jun/11/world/fg-childbride11
The girl has refused to see a psychologist or a gynecologist. She says she doesnt like doctors. And besides, she says, the experience has made her stronger and wiser.
She says shes had enough of marriage and domestic life, and looks forward to beginning third grade and pursuing dreams she never knew she had.
I want to defend oppressed people, she says. I want to be like Shada. I want to be an example for all the other girls.
An example for all the other girls?
As for what the parents said... do you have proof?
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Ok, which was the more godly situation?
To marry a child off who hasn't even reached puberty without waiting until she's old enough to make her own decision on who she wants to marry? That is not Quranic. The Quran says women cannot be inherited. So an arranged marriage without the woman's consent is wrong. And to force a young girl who has not even reached puberty to be married is completley unquranic. So why didn't the wife go to the Quran to show that her husband was wrong? Why was her father trying to get rid of her? Obviously not for godly reasons. Again, I can only vouch for how a relationship between a godly couple who follows and studies the Quran should be. the Kafiroona among Muslims and non Muslims do not apply. They will do as they please, the women and the men. That's a great example of how the woman had a right to not obey her husband, becuz God's laws take precedence.
I'm sure we can find similar siutations where a husband tells his wife not to do something, she does it and OOOHH the consequences. So here's the thing. If it's against God, a woman has every right to object and disobey if that is what has to be done to obey God. If it's not she should listen. I think in this case, if the woman couldn't show her husband that he was Quranically or even Islamically wrong (or atleast find someone who could), then both of them were ignorant and unfortunately the child suffered. That happens more often than not. Children regularly suffer because of the ignorance of their parents. Intuition and hunches without foundation are not on the same level as knowledge. So let's let the woman intuition stuff go when it comes to this situation. That's all emotion and something concrete is needed. Unfortunately that is where the man could have done some good. Unfortunately he had his own satanic agenda already in motion. In my opinon according to traditional Islamic law, if a child cannot testify in court they shouldn't be allowed to marry either.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Ok, which was the more godly situation?
To marry a child off who hasn't even reached puberty without waiting until she's old enough to make her own decision on who she wants to marry? That is not Quranic. The Quran says women cannot be inherited. So an arranged marriage without the woman's consent is wrong. And to force a young girl who has not even reached puberty to be married is completley unquranic. So why didn't the wife go to the Quran to show that her husband was wrong? Why was her father trying to get rid of her? Obviously not for godly reasons. Again, I can only vouch for how a relationship between a godly couple who follows and studies the Quran should be. the Kafiroona among Muslims and non Muslims do not apply. They will do as they please, the women and the men. That's a great example of how the woman had a right to not obey her husband, becuz God's laws take precedence.
I'm sure we can find similar siutations where a husband tells his wife not to do something, she does it and OOOHH the consequences. So here's the thing. If it's against God, a woman has every right to object and disobey if that is what has to be done to obey God. If it's not she should listen. I think in this case, if the woman couldn't show her husband that he was Quranically or even Islamically wrong (or atleast find someone who could), then both of them were ignorant and unfortunately the child suffered. That happens more often than not. Children regularly suffer because of the ignorance of their parents. Intuition and hunches without foundation are not on the same level as knowledge. So let's let the woman intuition stuff go when it comes to this situation. That's all emotion and something concrete is needed. Unfortunately that is where the man could have done some good. Unfortunately he had his own satanic agenda already in motion. In my opinon according to traditional Islamic law, if a child cannot testify in court they shouldn't be allowed to marry either.
Godbless,
AnwarAre you providing the guillotine chop to the proof behind the above alleged husband and wife conversation?
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...As for the choice of words, dutiful sounds good. My first instinct is to say tomay-toes, tomah-toes. But the Quran chose the word obedient. If that also entails being dutiful, sounds good. Again, tomay-toes, tomah-toes. You have issues with the word obedient. Those are your issues, and you should work that out on your own. If you disagree with what i'm saying . . .if the shoe fits . . .
Godbless,
AnwarGod did not choose that word. Men chose that word. That entire verse you refer to is completely mistranslated. I have already provided the true meaning of that verse but if you don't believe me, research it for yourself and you will learn the truth.
Progod, that comment of yours about the women in this thread was uncalled for; not very nice of you. These are very wise, intelligent and obviously, highly educated women who know that they stand equal in the sight of God and also know that God did not command women to ?obey? their husbands. Given that equality for all human beings is promoted, it doesn?t make sense that God would command any adult to ?obey? another. The Qur?an certainly does not promote slavery and this degrading and demeaning word conveys a master-slave relationship.
The Qur?an does not place men in charge of women. It does not create a hierarchy in which men are placed above women. Men--through fabricated hadith stories and the distortion of some Qur?anic verses pertaining to women--have done this. In particular, the incorrectly-translated verse 434 has traditionally been used to subordinate women to men. However, all throughout the Qur?an it is clear that men and women stand absolutely equal in the sight of God.
I don?t have much time right now but next time I will share with you MY observations regarding the nature of men and women, and work and roles and all that great stuff some of you guys I?m sure can?t wait to hear about...but until then, I will leave you with these verses
"One of His signs is that He created for you spouses like your selves so that you may live with them with affection and mercy - there are signs in this for people who reflect"
?The Believers, men and women, are protectors, one of another; they enjoin what is just, and forbid what is evil??
peace
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Yes I would have married her to someone older. Most males who are three times older than a 10 year old menarchecal female are far too young to have passed through the andropausal stage.
Ah... the girl hadn't reached puberty, so said the judge.
http//articles.latimes.com/2008/jun/11/world/fg-childbride11
An example for all the other girls?
For you to say that there is nothing wrong with marrying a 10 year old child tells me that you're either joking or that there's something seriously wrong with you mentally. I certainly hope you were just joking.
As for what the parents said... do you have proof?
Well, not exactly, since I didn't record the conversation but I do have a great memory, so you will have to trust me when I say that that was exactly what they said.
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I don?t have much time right now but next time I will share with you MY observations regarding the nature of men and women, and work and roles and all that great stuff some of you guys I?m sure can?t wait to hear about...but until then, I will leave you with these verses
"One of His signs is that He created for you spouses like your selves so that you may live with them with affection and mercy - there are signs in this for people who reflect"
?The Believers, men and women, are protectors, one of another; they enjoin what is just, and forbid what is evil??
peace
Hey nice posts shqipe, and what you doing prancing about showing both eyes in public, eh? ;D
mir? u pafshim
peace
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Only for contemplation
Marriage
Then Almitra spoke again and said, "And what of Marriage, master?"
And he answered saying
You were born together, and together you shall be forevermore.
You shall be together when white wings of death scatter your days.
Aye, you shall be together even in the silent memory of God.
But let there be spaces in your togetherness,
And let the winds of the heavens dance between you.
Love one another but make not a bond of love
Let it rather be a moving sea between the shores of your souls.
Fill each other's cup but drink not from one cup.
Give one another of your bread but eat not from the same loaf.
Sing and dance together and be joyous, but let each one of you be alone,
Even as the strings of a lute are alone though they quiver with the same music.
Give your hearts, but not into each other's keeping.
For only the hand of Life can contain your hearts.
And stand together, yet not too near together
For the pillars of the temple stand apart,
And the oak tree and the cypress grow not in each other's shadow.
Gibran Khalil Gibran -A Lebanese poet and artist
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Peace,
A warning to the believing single men here. Stay away from these women (if they are single)!! If they are not single, let me show some sympathy to the husbands if they act like they speak.
There is nothing wrong with obedience of a wife to her husband. Yes her husband is a human being and obedience to God takes precedence but a wife should obey her husband if he is godly and not exceeding the bounds of the Quran. That is how God says it should be and any believing woman who will rebel against her husband with her excuse being 'He's not the boss of me' should be fearful of the Hell-fire. That rebellion is not only in spite of her husband but also in spite of God, and is motivated by pure pride.
God gave the responsible believing man this privaledge for good reason. A I discussed some of that in my post above, that was quoted by Fahad. A woman who rejects this guidance from God should watch out in the hereafter, she might have a shock coming her way. A truly believing, humble woman would have not problem and would not be raising any objections to obeying her believing, responsible and reasonable husband. The same warning goes for the abusive, irresponsible husbands, whatever their excuses are they should fear the hell-fire just as much.
Godbless,
AnwarSalaam aleikum
You warn the men is this thread,against us woman that does not agree with obedience in a marrige Progod,and say that we may have a suprise coming in the hereafter.I think that men who taught they are the chiefs of women and their wifes,also have a surprise coming.
The womans situation in muslim countries,that have put your thoughts Progod,in system,is failing out,big time.Beliving muslim womens are living hell,here on earth,completly in hands of men.They can not travel,without husbands agreement,and without a mahram.They can not start divorce negotiation,without their husband agreement.They loose all parentship,over children,in a divorce,and if they are very unlucky,thay will never see their kids again,before the kids are grown up.
Obedience for a women is not only to her husband,in muslim countries.She really never have authority,on her self.And not reqognised as important,as men.
Allah say that humans shall not have any other master than Him,and you Progod,say that for womens,two masters is required,God and their husbands?
I think that what will bring harmony in a marrige,is equality,not obedience,as you belive.
Peace
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Peace,
Sa'dah,
in my opinion men and women should NOT be put in these competitive environments with each other. It only leads to resentment and ill-will.
Peace,proGod..
From what I read,can I understand that you`re suggesting segregation between the sexes?
Now we all can adapt to situations we don't like if forced to. But we find ourselves ever increasingly in GENERALLY unnatural environments, and it can cause more problems than need be.
"O mankind, We created you from a male and female, and We made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Surely, the most honorable among you in the sight of God is the most righteous. God is Knowledgeable, Expert."
An unnatural environment to me is the one that segregates between men and women,that deprives the community of the valuable contributions of individuals,based on sexism..
Ive been trying to say that men and women are partners in life,and that each has a role to play,a persons personal abilities and character defines his role..
There is no strict separation or line that divides those roles,we should accept each other`s unique individualism,not to dictate each other who they are and what they are supposed to do..We all just need to act like good drones and work together like a Borg society accordin to mainstream society. But that is breaking up our society and our families frankly. It's creating women who are unsuitable for relationships with men and it is causing men to rebel against taking on manly responsibilities which can be undermined and competed for by the one he is trying to care for. Or sometimes these men do not learn them at all, because they grow up feeling undervalued and not needed as men.
Everybody loves to feel that they
re needed..women will always need men,to love, protect and support them..and men will always need women to support,love them and take care of them.. "And from His signs is that He created for you mates from yourselves that you may reside with them, and He placed between you affection and mercy. In that are signs for a people who reflect." (3021) Love is necessary for ones spiritual growth..couples who share mutual love and understanding raise healthy and balanced children..
Mutuality is the key..and if we have worked our minds to find a merciful and human interpretation for the word"" =beat them to be "separate from them" because we believed that women arent mules.. Then we must believe that women arent children or stupid beings who should be living their lives doing what theyre told.. What should a woman do to make her man feel "needed" and "valued"? Pretend to be stupid and dependent?that shes got no skills,no ambitions,no vision,no different views for things?Couples should help each other to be strong and independent,nurture each other and help each other grow..
You can`t ask a pubertal,fully grown up and free-willed person to "obey",this will break their spirit and makes them feel limited and oppressed.. -
Peace,
Sounds good. But sounds good is not always is good. I disagree with your interpretation of that verse. I read ta'aarafa as 'to mutually honor' from 'arafa's meaning of 'to recongize' and it's use in the words 'urf and ma'roof. But to you your way and to me mine.
Godbless,
Anwar