Anyone plan on making Hajj soon?
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As thrilling it would be for me to visit a country outside USA, especially going to the Hajj - I think it is not feasable to entertain the thought, as long as we are Progressive Muslims (NOT Sunni/Shia, etc). Simply because as I looked at a travel agency that schedules people to make the Hajj, they either have to belong to an Islamic country (and NO - the USA is not an Islamic country), or if the person doesn't have an Islamic name (by birth - I suppose) - they need verification they are muslim through a statement given by a mosque (how many Progress Muslim mosques are there anyway? Point(s) made.
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It is a rite and respnsibility that this person failed to commit to.
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It is a rite and respnsibility that this person failed to commit to.
manmade ritual, yes sure
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manmade ritual, yes sure
What evidence do you have?
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I performed pilgrimage 3 years ago. It changed me a lot for the better. So I disagree with Ayman when he claims that "to spin seven times around a stone cube veiled in a dress, kiss the Black Stone coming out of a vagina-shaped enclosure in the corner facing the winter sunrise..." is what most people do "because they believe that as a result their sins will be forgiven and they will return sinless like newborn babies." I did not spin the shrine which God Calls "My House" (2226) so that my sins should be forgiven but in order to gain the spirit an moral power of the early muslims by remebering them by that means.
By the way, I wholeheartedly agree with Ayman's idea about calendar. I even wrote an article in my mother tongue (Turkish) on it referring to Ayman's name and drawing on his explanations and posted it on my website (www.hasanakcay.net) and some forums I frequent. It seems to be quite convincing; I get favorable feedback.
Peace,
Hasan Akcay -
What evidence do you have?
Well not more evidence than you have )
And I don't need to go anyplace to be filled with happiness. I can just ask what I want and be happy and grateful. That's all it takes.
Why you make life difficult for u dude? Rites , LOL... -
Well not more evidence than you have )
And I don't need to go anyplace to be filled with happiness. I can just ask what I want and be happy and grateful. That's all it takes.
Why you make life difficult for u dude? Rites , LOL...2196 And complete the Pilgrimage and the visit for God. But, if you are prevented, then make what is affordable of donation, and do not shave your heads until the donation reaches its destination; but whoever of you is ill or has an affliction to his head, then he may redeem by fasting or giving a charity or a rite. But if you are able, then whoever continues the visit until the Pilgrimage, then he shall provide what is affordable of donation; but for he who cannot find anything, then he must fast for three days during the Pilgrimage and seven when he returns; this will make a complete ten; this is for those whose family is not present at the Sacred Temple. And be aware of God, and know that God is severe in retribution.
Why do I make life difficult for me? Why do most ignore this verse? And fail to commit to it? Is this a manmade rite, or a rite established by the Almighty?
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I don't mind going but Im definitely not dancing around the kaaba kissing a rock then stoning the "devil"(please show me where any of this was commanded in the quran)
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Whoever honors the restrictions, then it is from the pity of the hearts. And do not transgress in it. Else God will let you taste a sever punishment in it... They are seeking a mercy from there Lord and a forgiveness. So I think we should honor the restrictions made by the pilgramage... God is fully aware of what is inside the chests...
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I don't mind going but Im definitely not dancing around the kaaba kissing a rock then stoning the "devil"(please show me where any of this was commanded in the quran)
You wont find those devils there, as they've been covered up by the Saudis.
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=O552_mdDM6k&feature=related
There you see it...
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zgyf2aHS6Hc
and there you don't. -
Whoever honors the restrictions, then it is from the pity of the hearts. And do not transgress in it. Else God will let you taste a sever punishment in it... They are seeking a mercy from there Lord and a forgiveness. So I think we should honor the restrictions made by the pilgramage... God is fully aware of what is inside the chests...
What are you talking about?! confused What does this "pilgrimage" entail, in your opinion? What is involved in it?
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What are you talking about?! confused What does this "pilgrimage" entail, in your opinion? What is involved in it?
Peace, my view of it is whatever Quran says about it
52 O you who believe, do not violate the symbols of God, nor the restricted month, nor the donations, nor what is regulated, nor the safety made by the Sacred Dwelling; for they are seeking a bounty from their Lord and a blessing. And when it is permitted for you, then you may hunt. And let not the hatred of another people; because they had barred you from the Sacred Temple; make you aggress. And bond together in piety and righteousness, and do not bind together in sin and aggression. And be aware of God, for God's retribution is severe.
2225 Surely, those who have rejected and repel from the path of God, and from the Sacred Temple that We have made for the people ? for the one devoted therein and the one that visits it ? and whoever inclines to evil action in it, We will let them taste a painful retribution.
And so on...
I never made pilgramage before and I am still learning ( trying to figure out what is involved in it and so on so I know what to do when I get there , ect...- God willing.) .
All I know is that it is a rite and Allah is owed by us ( mankind) to make pilgramage. Whoever can make a way to it...
Unless im misunderstanding ur questions?
peace
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Peace,
No, you answered them. Thanks... In your view, is this House ("Kaaba" in Mecca or somewhere else? I know some people on here say that it is referring to Jerusalem, and others say it's the human consciousness (inside ourselves). There are PLENTY of discrepancies on this issue, even though it seems to be a big factor in Islam and the Qur'an when it comes to concepts of salaat and hajj. What's your opinion on this?
Peace,
Ahmad
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Peace,
No, you answered them. Thanks... In your view, is this House ("Kaaba" in Mecca or somewhere else? I know some people on here say that it is referring to Jerusalem, and others say it's the human consciousness (inside ourselves). There are PLENTY of discrepancies on this issue, even though it seems to be a big factor in Islam and the Qur'an when it comes to concepts of salaat and hajj. What's your opinion on this?
Peace,
Ahmad
The House is in Mecca... Jeruslum was the focal point/ or prayer direction before the Quran was revealed. God guides whom He wills and He misguides whom He wills. Do you see? He only made the Focal Point you were on to distinguish those who would follow His messenger.
I have no knowleadge of House of God, the site of Abraham, being nowere but in mecca. I never heard of the Holy House of God buily by Abraham being in Jeruslim or nowere else... peace
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Peace Anthony,
The House is in Mecca... Jeruslum was the focal point/ or prayer direction before the Quran was revealed. God guides whom He wills and He misguides whom He wills. Do you see? He only made the Focal Point you were on to distinguish those who would follow His messenger.
I have no knowleadge of House of God, the site of Abraham, being nowere but in mecca. I never heard of the Holy House of God buily by Abraham being in Jeruslim or nowere else... peace
The reason I ask this is because, after researching the concepts of Judaism, the Jews always considered this house (i.e. "Kaaba" to be the city of Jerusalem. If you ask modern-day Jews what direction they face in prayer, they'll tell you, "To the east, toward Yerushalayim (Jerusalem)..." What makes me wonder about this is the statement in the Qur'an calling it the "first sanctuary" (396). If Mecca was actually the first sanctuary, then wouldn't Jews have at least heard of it? Why isn't it mentioned anywhere in the Hebrew texts? The place of Mecca doesn't appear to have anything to do with Jewish history or acceptance; so how can it be called the "first sanctuary"? Weren't God's "first" people the Jews?
I'm just starting to really wonder about the Kaaba really being in Mecca. Based on the scriptures (i.e. the Qur'an and the Torah), the Kaaba appears to be in Jerusalem, not Mecca... But this is just my interpretation. God willing, I will do more research on this subject, and may God guide us to the truth...
Peace,
Ahmad
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Peace Anthony,
The reason I ask this is because, after researching the concepts of Judaism, the Jews always considered this house (i.e. "Kaaba" to be the city of Jerusalem. If you ask modern-day Jews what direction they face in prayer, they'll tell you, "To the east, toward Yerushalayim (Jerusalem)..." What makes me wonder about this is the statement in the Qur'an calling it the "first sanctuary" (396). If Mecca was actually the first sanctuary, then wouldn't Jews have at least heard of it? Why isn't it mentioned anywhere in the Hebrew texts? The place of Mecca doesn't appear to have anything to do with Jewish history or acceptance; so how can it be called the "first sanctuary"? Weren't God's "first" people the Jews?
I'm just starting to really wonder about the Kaaba really being in Mecca. Based on the scriptures (i.e. the Qur'an and the Torah), the Kaaba appears to be in Jerusalem, not Mecca... But this is just my interpretation. God willing, I will do more research on this subject, and may God guide us to the truth...
Peace,
Ahmad
Peace, the Jews and Christians know that the kabba founded by abraham is the truth. The " first" sanctuary... WE caint say that the sanctuary in Juruslim or anywere else were Gods name is frequently mentioned is not Gods House thoe. However, there is only one place to perform certain rites or pilgramages to ( for us as well as the Jews and Chris.). And that is the place God chooses to be worshiped. Which is the kabba in Mecca to my knowleadge for us ( Muslim).
Pilgramages are still made to Juruslim by the Jews and Christians. Each nation has rites they must fulfil. And remember that Abraham wasnt a Jew nor a Christian. So I dont think Jews were Gods first people.
So God turned us from Juruslim toward Mecca to guide us and distinguish those who would follow His messenger from those who would turn on there heels.. So if pilgramages is to Juruslim as always been, then we would be on the same focal point we were on before the Quran. There would be no change in Qiblah. There is a disticntion. God commands us to turn toward the focal point wereever we are, be, and go.
I believe they strayed from the path and forgot much, which is why God turned our direction to take us back to our orgins ( Islam). The creed of Abraham. Toward mecca. The " first" sanctuary.
Im still researchin this too. And I thought some of the same things you thought about it...Espeacially when i read Torah. Also remember, if im correct, that the Sanctuary in Juruslim wasnt built by Abraham. But it was built by David or Solomn. I think Solomn according to the books of the prophets in old test... And I face the east when I salat. I thought Juruslim was west. But I dont know. Then do u know if mecca is east or west? Which way u face when u salat?
peace
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Peace all, im bout to be moving at any time now so if you dont hear from me anytime soon, then i moved or somethingelse...
There example in the Torah is that of kneeling and prostrating ( physically). And the example of the Gospel is that of standing up stronge, and firm. Like a plant which shoots out and becomes strong and thick and it stands straight on its trunk, pleaseing to the farmers. That He may enrage the rejecters with them. God promises those among them who believe and do good works a forgiveness and a great reward. peace
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Peace,
I was looking into these things too... From the US, both Mecca and Jerusalem are northeast... And, according to the Torah, the sanctuary in Jerusalem was settled in by Abraham, and the temple was built by Solomon. In the Qur'an, Abraham also insisted that the dwelling ("House" be called a "secure city", and coincidentally, the Hebrew title for this city is "Yerushalayim" (city or town of peace and security/shalaym or shalom). The city of Mecca is not described at all in Jewish history, and according to the other Abrahamic religions, Mecca has no historical significance at all... The Qur'an says that the "first" house was in Bakka. So, the question is really Are "Bakka" and "Makka" the same place, or are the different?
Peace,
Ahmad
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Peace,
I was looking into these things too... From the US, both Mecca and Jerusalem are northeast... And, according to the Torah, the sanctuary in Jerusalem was settled in by Abraham, and the temple was built by Solomon. In the Qur'an, Abraham also insisted that the dwelling ("House" be called a "secure city", and coincidentally, the Hebrew title for this city is "Yerushalayim" (city or town of peace and security/shalaym or shalom). The city of Mecca is not described at all in Jewish history, and according to the other Abrahamic religions, Mecca has no historical significance at all... The Qur'an says that the "first" house was in Bakka. So, the question is really Are "Bakka" and "Makka" the same place, or are the different?
Peace,
Ahmad
I am not quilafied to answer that question... But what I do know is that Bakka and mecca are mentioned in Quran, and Juruslim is not. And there is a mentioned of turning from one qiblah to another. And I would like to see were in Torah it says the sanctuary was settled in juruslim by Abraham. So mecca may not have significance in the history of the rejecters ( Jews ), but it has significance in the Quran and history of Islam. peace