Every verse that has to do with salat?
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Hello, I am new to freeminds.
I have a question. Why does God say "Offer the salat in the manner He has taught you, which you knew not"? (Chapter2 verse 239-Yousuf's translation)
I don't the manner in which He taught us to offer salat.I used to offer prayer as my parents taught me this (Sunni). Then it got repetitive and I did not feel close to God. At certain part of the act though, I would feel it was working, I felt close to GOD, felt at peace. I don't if that was what God was intending. I am confused about God's meaning about Salat and whether it is a form of prayer.
Any comments/suggestions?
Thanks -
Sorry that post was not from Roshan, it was from me. I did not know he was logged on.
Hello, I am new to freeminds.
I have a question. Why does God say "Offer the salat in the manner He has taught you, which you knew not"? (Chapter2 verse 239-Yousuf's translation)
I don't the manner in which He taught us to offer salat.I used to offer prayer as my parents taught me this (Sunni). Then it got repetitive and I did not feel close to God. At certain part of the act though, I would feel it was working, I felt close to GOD, felt at peace. I don't if that was what God was intending. I am confused about God's meaning about Salat and whether it is a form of prayer.
Any comments/suggestions?
Thanks -
peace yara,
First of all, welcome to the forum.
Secondly, why do you try to base your following on only one translation? ALL translations are imperfect, and as a minimum whenever one has a question one should check at least several translations. Doing this simple step would have resolved your question.
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/Intelligent_Approach_to_Islam.htm
Please utilise the tools at www.StudyQuran.org for example
The literal translation of M&S Ahmed for example is as follows
So if you feared, so walking or riding , so if you became safe/secure , so mention/remember God, as He taught you what you were not knowing.
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Salam
Every translation is one's individual understanding based on his own reasoning; so every one has to read with his own perception in the good sense. Never take into consideration at all anybody's translation which is not at all feasible to you for the practice. Your own natural understanding shall befit your nature. Thus practicing Islam becomes natural without force.
Salat means pondering every ayat in the direction of Allah 62 9 that it strengthens one's own Iman 9 123 every time an ayat is recited. The understanding gained on account of such salat makes you go for His Bountiful Grace 62 10 rather than race for money.
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Peace,
In order for 'salaat' to be non-physical, it means other aspects concerning salaat are also presumed to be non-physical, right? So, what about wudhu - is this a physical act? Based on the Reading, YES, it is a physical act of cleansing oneself before the salaat observance... So, why would you have to physically cleanse yourself (wudhu) before committing a non-physical action (salaat)? Does this make sense? What is wudhu preparation for doing?
Also, the condition of "bow and prostrate" could be determined to be 'humble themselves consentingly' ONLY IF THEY ARE CONJOINED. According to the Reading, they're not conjoined, and the scriptures mention bowing without prostrating, as well as prostrating without bowing. This means they have separate meanings and designations. In other words, "bowing" is one action, and "prostrating" is a different action, whether you want to consider them physical or not. If you can bow without prostrating (or prostrate without bowing), then these two concepts can't be conjoined... So, for those who believe salaat is non-physical, then what is "ruku", and what is "sujood"?
Peace,
Ahmad
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peace AB, all,
I find it interesting that two spheres of meaning seem to dominate when it comes to discussing "salat" on this forum.
- physical
- non-physical
And when they are phrased like this they are of course absurd. If we cant even get the words we use correct, what chance do we have when we are trying to understand concepts and meanings!
Let's get one thing straight, no matter if one thinks salat=prayer (i.e. physical) or salat=upholding commandments (non-physical), neither is 100% physical or 100% non-physical, BOTH involve a mental component as well as a physical component. Just like when one gives to charity, it is both an action of the body and mind, but you will NEVER hear someone argue "physical charity".... and the reason is this wording is of course absurd, yet this wording gets used like this for salat. It is the height of nonsense.
This thread is for occurrences of salat, not its meaning. I posted the above to clarify a painfully obvious point.
KEEP it on topic or risk posts getting deleted without notice, as per forum rules. There are plenty of threads discussing meaning of salat, and other words.
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Peace be upon you Wakas,
neither is 100% physical or 100% non-physical, BOTH involve a mental component as well as a physical component
Exactly!
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Peace be upon you Bahr53,
The message in 2125 is that Abraham was directed to the system and had diligently committed himself to devote and humble himself with consent to the will of God in the system. His son Ishmael was similarly committed, and both of them cleansed the system for throngs of people who are devoted and also those who humble1 themselves consentingly to the same system. Abraham and Ishmael were not devoting themselves to a physical house, neither have they circumambulated, or bow and prostrate physically to some rocks. Those who follow the footsteps of Abraham are not expected to bow or prostrate to anything. They should devote and humble themselves by consenting themselves to the same system by upholding their commitments to observe the deen prescribed by God. That is all that is meant.
So beautiful! WHat was the brothers name who wrote this article? I cannot recall and I would like to read it again.
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We must bear in mind that Mind is the only thing that shall be allowed to function to keep control of the physique. Thus there is either 100% wisdom involving soulfully, the mind or else none at all. Body shall submit and obey the mindfulness. Let the body become a wholesome functional element and be in oneness with the mind. If we allow the body to become active as in physical salaat, such act dissociates mind and body as two units independent of each other, then we are split personalities. The physical and mental salat combined into one as a ritual salat causes such irregularities!
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drfazl, perhaps you are unaware that our minds control the body, not the other way around.
Would it not be more proper to suggest that the brain receives and conveys/communicates the messages to the body cells.
How can the brain control the body unless it is excited by something/someone foreign to it? No cell, living or dead/of matter could initiate any action untill it is excited by the energy exerted/applied on it. Brain cells cannot be considered an exception to this basic fact of the universe. Therefore the quoted statement needs to be considered somewhat more in depth, before making or considering it a proven fact.
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Salaam Yara
If you re-read the article from Aidid Safar you see that Salaah/Solaa etc have nothing whatsoever to ritual prayer. It means comitting yourself to Allah's Deen Islam, that is DOING what Allah tells us in the Quran. It is all about action, like not corrupting the earth (pollution), do good deeds, help the poor and there are many stories and sayings in the Quran on what to DO.And when it comes to PRAYER we call on Allah the Merciful (or any of His attribute, as I believe it is NOT enough to just call on Allah or God, you MUST add some of His atributes, like the Creator, The Maker of all etc) we can do that anytime in any position we feel the need to adopt.
Free English book refuting Hadith for download in PDF format
http//www.box.net/shared/5tgzvctcf5Fem gode linker/Five good links
http//aididsafar.com/
http//merahza.wordpress.com/
http//www.free-minds.org/
http//iyb.blogspot.com/
http//aboutquran.com/
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Salaam Yara
If you re-read the article from Aidid Safar you see that Salaah/Solaa etc have nothing whatsoever to ritual prayer. It means comitting yourself to Allah's Deen Islam, that is DOING what Allah tells us in the Quran. It is all about action, like not corrupting the earth (pollution), do good deeds, help the poor and there are many stories and sayings in the Quran on what to DO.And when it comes to PRAYER we call on Allah the Merciful (or any of His attribute, as I believe it is NOT enough to just call on Allah or God, you MUST add some of His atributes, like the Creator, The Maker of all etc) we can do that anytime in any position we feel the need to adopt.
If that is true, what were they doing in the battlefield? {Refer 4102}
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4-102. And if you are with them and you hold the affirmation for them, then let a
group from amongst them stand with you and let them bring their weapons; and
when they have prostrated then let them stand guard from behind; and let a
group who has not yet affirmed come and affirm with you, and let them be
wary and let them bring their weapons with them. The rejecters hope that you
would neglect your weapons and goods so they can come upon you in one
blow. There is no sin upon you if you are impeded by rainfall, or if you are ill,
that you place down your weapons. And be wary. God has prepared for the
rejecters a humiliating retribution.What about 4103 where God says the Sol-laa-ta are done at specified times?
It is our duty to do certain deeds at specific times through the day from morning to dusk and also parts of the night, from the sinking of the sun at noon till the darkness of the night. That means 24/7. The verse says we are committed to do certain things at the specified times. We must do what we have to do when it is time and do it diligently.
If we are traders we must maintain our commitments not cheat or earn by excessive profiteering. If a beggar or a poor man comes to us at nine in the morning, we should not tell him to come back at 1 o?clock. If our workers have worked for us we should not delay or postpone their wages. If we promise to see somebody at 3.00 p.m. then we should uphold that commitment to the man by meeting him at 3.00 p.m. sharp because God says, ?They fulfil their promises when they make their promise?. Fulfilling our promises is part of the commitment.How did the Prophet lead the ritual prayers for the non-believers according to (your reading of) 4101-102?
In-naal kafirin nakanu lakum ?aduwun mubin, wa-izza konta fi-hem fa-aqom-ta lahum Sol-laa-ta (4101-102)
Surely the disbelievers are your manifest enemy, And when you are in their midst you shall lead them in Sol-laa (ritual prayer?) (4101-102)
? How can the ritual prayer of the Prophet console people or make them happy? (9103)
? When you are in sudden disaster or facing sudden death, how can the two strangers who are to be witnesses (and who may not know anything about the Arab religion) perform the ritual prayer before swearing to God that they will be truthful? (5106)
? How did all the people of a town and those living in the surrounding areas preserve their ritual prayer (wa hum alaa Sol-laa-tihim haafizuun) as soon as they heard the message of the Reading (692)? It may have included non-believers, Christians or Jews.
? Why is it that yuSollu means ritual prayer in 4102 but in 3356 it means honour and support? -
How did the Prophet lead the ritual prayers for the non-believers according to (your reading of) 4101-102?
In-naal kafirin nakanu lakum ?aduwun mubin, wa-izza konta fi-hem fa-aqom-ta lahum Sol-laa-ta (4101-102)
Surely the disbelievers are your manifest enemy, And when you are in their midst you shall lead them in Sol-laa (ritual prayer?) (4101-102)Bahr, can you provide proof for your claim? e.g. from grammar or logic?
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Salaamun Aleikum
Proof you ask.
I would rather say I posted from the book "Mental Bondage" to create interest
in it so you all download it, read it and research the issues therein. A more clever
man than me have gone into this in much detail, so why not read the book an then
maybe there is no need for more questions.
So please, feel free to read it, free for download here.
BahrFree English book refuting Hadith for download in PDF format
http//www.box.net/shared/5tgzvctcf5 -
The problem with what you quoted about 4102 is that there is no actual evidence behind the claim of who is being addressed. That is what I was highlighting.
Many writers do not provide sufficient evidence for their claims, it is nothing new.
As a side note, Aidid's past work has been discussed in this forum quite significantly. Feel free to read them.
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Peace be upon you,
Yes, Aidid Safar, thats his name..he has great work, although I disagree still with some of his end results, definately a good read.
It is all fine and well to say that we must do this and do that, we must agree to meet someone, or to pay workers, etc....giving the following of orders the title "salaat" os a grave error and FRUITLESS...wether we call it salaat or not, people have been given orders to follow since the beginning of time. Because someone calls it salaat does not change the real problem. And that is HOW does one effectively change thier behavior from one who does not obey to one who obeys? The answer is the real meaning of salaat, which is PROGRAMMING....programming what? The Nafs(subconcious). The entire counsel(quran) tells us what to do, do we need to be told "do it again"? Or are we being told HOW to do it? Can u see and appreciate the difference?
