Hot/"ramadan" Answer
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Peace Ayman,
In 2234 waiting period is clearly stated to be four shahr and 10. But how do we know that hajj is to last 10 days?
According to Lisanul Arab the moon is called hilal during the two days after the appearance of the new moon and the two days before the appearance of the new moon. The other days it is called qamar including the full moon. So according to the classical dictionaries the time from full moon to hilal is more than 10 days.
The information for hilal is given under the root word(ل
And in 2.234 why God did not say 4 shahr and one hilal; if it is a fact that ahilla are used as timing devices? Is Ahilla is the plural of hilal really?Lane?s Lexicon under the root word (ل says
Hum ahlu ahlatin ( ٍ and (ٍ means They are people of the distinguished sort.(ٌ Ahliyatun means The quality of having a right, or just title, to a thing; worthiness, or desert meetness, or feetness; the state or quality, of meetness, or feetness, (of a person) for the bindingness of the rights which the law imposes for one upon him.
Does ahilla in 2189 have any relation with the meanings mentioned in Lane?s Lexicon?
The root for hilaal is Haa Laam Laam not Alif Haa Laam . The initial alif is not original but is the alif of the plural. Also, the plural is (Ahil-la) not (Ahila).
Classical dictionaries are not consistent with this "two-day" theory. Some say three (al-Sahhah fil-lugha), others say up to seven (al-Muheet), so we can't take them as authority in this matter. -
Peace Samia,
The root for hilaal is Haa Laam Laam not Alif Haa Laam . The initial alif is not original but is the alif of the plural. Also, the plural is (Ahil-la) not (Ahila).
Classical dictionaries are not consistent with this "two-day" theory. Some say three (al-Sahhah fil-lugha), others say up to seven (al-Muheet), so we can't take them as authority in this matter.Thank you for further clarifying this point.
Thanks,
Ayman
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Peace everyone,
Tlepsh makes an interesting point in the following thread
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597952.0
It seems that the interim for widows would be fourteen full moons !!!!
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Peace,brother Ayman..
I completed the reading of your article 10 times ! )
It never occurred to anyone what the real meaning of the word "Shahr" means,and there`s nothing better-and beautiful- than a clear "monshaher" moon-a front door- to mark it!
Thank you for your genius and inspiring inputs.God bless.
I have a single question,
Is fighting restricted in the restricted months? according to 95 there`s a truce of some kind.
And If Ramadhan occurs at the first full moon after summer solstice,then that would mean that the four restricted months which fighting is restricted,are simultaneously June,July,August and September,"harr" times ,and that is a contradiction to 981 where "istinfar" was to be carried on in "harr",or did I get it wrong? -
Peace sister Sa'adah,
I completed the reading of your article 10 times ! )
It never occurred to anyone what the real meaning of the word "Shahr" means,and there`s nothing better-and beautiful- than a clear "monshaher" moon-a front door- to mark it!
Thank you for your genius and inspiring inputs.God bless.All thanks is due to the god. It is only with his guidance that we can get closer to the truth.
I have a single question,
Is fighting restricted in the restricted months?No, fighting is not restricted as per the clear answer in 2217. The ONLY thing that is restricted is hunting.
according to 95 there`s a truce of some kind.
The truce has nothing to do with the god or the message as per 91.
And If Ramadhan occurs at the first full moon after summer solstice,then that would mean that the four restricted months which fighting is restricted,are simultaneously June,July,August and September,"harr" times ,and that is a contradiction to 981 where "istinfar" was to be carried on in "harr",or did I get it wrong?
There is no contradiction because fighting is allowed as it is always allowed in self defense. 981 taken with 986, which talks about a chapter descending, actually confirms that the great reading descended during a hot time of the year. If we read Chapter 9 then we can see that lots of things happened between 95 and 981 and the events described in 981 must have happened in the next year's restricted full moons.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace,Ayman..
Thank you for the clarification,2217 had lightened my chest!
But still I have difficulty understanding 95 ,and its relation to the restricted months.
Could you lend me some help? )
Oh,I also searched for the red and orange moon,the moon is orange after the summer solstice,but it could be orange at many times of the year, but no one can argue that definition of "manazel" describes well a "descending" moon!it
s true that "descending" will take place only until the moon is a thinning crescent and then well be ascending again to the next full one,but its a good marker to point which point shall be a start.. The moon of the summer solstice is at its lowest point,compared to the sun at its highest point,this IS a special phenomenon.. Thank you for this invitation to look around and ponder in Gods creation.. -
Peace,everyone..
"Therefore, roam the land for four months and know that you will not escape God, and that God will humiliate the rejecters."
Who are addressed here.and why is it four months?
What is the relationship between the restricted months and fighting in this following verse
"So when the restricted months have passed, then you may kill those who have set up partners wherever you find them, and take them, and surround them, and stand against them at every point. If they repent, and uphold the communion, and contribute towards betterment, then you shall leave them alone. God is Forgiving, Merciful."Peace,
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Peace,everyone..
"Therefore, roam the land for four months and know that you will not escape God, and that God will humiliate the rejecters."
Who are addressed here.and why is it four months?
What is the relationship between the restricted months and fighting in this following verse
"So when the restricted months have passed, then you may kill those who have set up partners wherever you find them, and take them, and surround them, and stand against them at every point. If they repent, and uphold the communion, and contribute towards betterment, then you shall leave them alone. God is Forgiving, Merciful."Peace,
My opinion
The idolaters of Makkah are addressed here. They had started the war of religions by exiling the messenger of Islam (940) from his home in Makkah and kept it up by continuously attacking the Muslim State in Yathrib (3313).
Why four months? They are the months of restrictions (ash'hurun hurum) mentioned in 936. Form the words "They will ask thee about fighting in the months of restrictions" in 2217 I understand that the Arabs traditionally refrained form fighting in them.
I will continue to explain what I understand from 95 later, God willing, if what I am saying is making sense to the people in this forum.
Peace,
Hasan Ak?ay -
Peace Ayman,
On the other hand, if you count cycles then most of the time you will only get 11 cycles in a year thereby violating 936. This is why we must count the EVENT and NOT the CYCLE. This is the ONLY way to use the moon.
936 That alshshuhoori count at God 12 in God's scripture, the day He created the skies/space and the earth.
Alright then let's start at the beginning of creation day 0
fullmoon days Years
1 0 0 start assuming full moon lol
2 29.53059
3 59.06118
4_ 88.59177
5___ 118.12236
6___ 147.65295
7___ 177.18354
8___ 206.71413
9___ 236.24472
10__ 265.77531
11__ 295.3059
12__ 324.83649
00__ 354.36708 skip full moon
365.242199 1 solstice Happy New Year!
1 383.89767 ramadan
2___ 413.42826
3___ 442.95885
4___ 472.48944
5___ 502.02003
6___ 531.55062
7___ 561.08121
8___ 590.6118
9___ 620.14239
10__ 649.67298
11__ 679.20357
12__ 708.73416
730.484398 2
1 738.26475 ramadan
2___ 767.79534
3___ 797.32593
4___ 826.85652
5___ 856.38711
6___ 885.9177
7___ 915.44829
8___ 944.97888
9___ 974.50947
10__ 1004.04006
11__ 1033.57065
12__ 1063.10124
00__ 1092.63183 skip full moon
1095.726597 3
1 1122.16242 ramadan
2___ 1151.69301
3___ 1181.2236
4___ 1210.75419
5___ 1240.28478
6___ 1269.81537
7___ 1299.34596
8___ 1328.87655
9___ 1358.40714
10__ 1387.93773
11__ 1417.46832
12__ 1446.99891
1460.968796 4
1 1476.5295 ramadan
2___ 1506.06009
3___ 1535.59068
4___ 1565.12127
5___ 1594.65186
6___ 1624.18245
7___ 1653.71304
8___ 1683.24363
9___ 1712.77422
10__ 1742.30481
11__ 1771.8354
12__ 1801.36599
1826.210995 5
1 1830.89658 ramadan
2___ 1860.42717
3___ 1889.95776
4___ 1919.48835
5___ 1949.01894
6___ 1978.54953
7___ 2008.08012
8___ 2037.61071
9___ 2067.1413
10__ 2096.67189
11__ 2126.20248
12__ 2155.73307
00__ 2185.26366 skip full moon
2191.453194 6
1 2214.79425 ramadan
2___ 2244.32484
3___ 2273.85543
4___ 2303.38602
5___ 2332.91661
6___ 2362.4472
7___ 2391.97779
8___ 2421.50838
9___ 2451.03897
10__ 2480.56956
11__ 2510.10015
12__ 2539.63074
2556.695393 7
1 2569.16133 ramadan
2___ 2598.69192
3___ 2628.22251
4___ 2657.7531
5___ 2687.28369
6___ 2716.81428
7___ 2746.34487
8___ 2775.87546
9___ 2805.40605
10__ 2834.93664
11__ 2864.46723
12__ 2893.99782
2921.937592 8
1 2923.52841 ramadan
2___ 2953.059
3___ 2982.58959
4___ 3012.12018
5___ 3041.65077
6___ 3071.18136
7___ 3100.71195
8___ 3130.24254
9___ 3159.77313
10__ 3189.30372
11__ 3218.83431
12__ 3248.3649
00__ 3277.89549 skip full moon
3287.179791 9
1 3307.42608 ramadan
2___ 3336.95667
3___ 3366.48726
4___ 3396.01785
5___ 3425.54844
6___ 3455.07903
7___ 3484.60962
8___ 3514.14021
9___ 3543.6708
10__ 3573.20139
11__ 3602.73198
12__ 3632.26257
3652.42199 10
1 3661.79316 ramadan
2___ 3691.32375
3___ 3720.85434
4___ 3750.38493
5___ 3779.91552
6___ 3809.44611
7___ 3838.9767
8___ 3868.50729
9___ 3898.03788
10__ 3927.56847
11__ 3957.09906
12__ 3986.62965
00__ 4016.16024 skip full moon 1 day before solstice, huge illusion
4017.664189 ___11Something is missing, probably obvious, and skipping full moons or calling it no name doesn't seem right.
Also puzzling is also why 8 hijajin is used and not years???
2827 He said "That I, I want , that I marry you to one (of) my two daughters, those two, on that you hire to me (yourself for) eight hijajin, so if you completed ten, so (it) is from at you, and I do not want that I make hardship/difficulty on you, you will find me, if God willed/wanted from the correct/righteous."
Does hajj have to be every year? Does it say 12 shahr in a solar year?
This full moon business, blind not fasting, missing the moon illusion or full moon altogether, skipping 5 in the first 11 years, different wait times for same offense etc., too many issues.
Peace
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Peace Ayman,
Also puzzling is also why 8 hijajin is used and not years???
2827 He said "That I, I want , that I marry you to one (of) my two daughters, those two, on that you hire to me (yourself for) eight hijajin, so if you completed ten, so (it) is from at you, and I do not want that I make hardship/difficulty on you, you will find me, if God willed/wanted from the correct/righteous."
Does hajj have to be every year? Does it say 12 shahr in a solar year?
Peace
Peace All,
( ٍ Eight hijaj
Does ( ٍ means eight yearly festivals/gatherings or overcoming of one another person in argument by evidences eight times? Does God mentions yearly festivals/gatherings in his book?
If it was eight years why not mentioned to be ?tamani seenin? or ?tamaniata a3wam?
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Peace Tlepsh,
( ٍ Eight hijaj
Does ( ٍ means eight yearly festivals/gatherings or overcoming of one another person in argument by evidences eight times? Does God mentions yearly festivals/gatherings in his book?
If it was eight years why not mentioned to be ?tamani seenin? or ?tamaniata a3wam?I agree that it wasn't 8 years. It was 8 feasts. These could at the soonest happen over 2 years (4 feasts per year). Since Moses was hired to be a helper and water and tend for sheep and not hired as somekind of a lawyer then this actually confirms the meaning of "hajj" as feast and not as anything having to do with "overcoming of one another person in argument by evidences".
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Sa'adah,
But still I have difficulty understanding 95 ,and its relation to the restricted months.
I think that reading from 91-5, it seems that there was a treaty to not fight during the restriction period. This treaty had nothing to do with the god who didn't prohibit fighting at any special time according to 2217. So the treaty expired when the restriction period expired and that's when fighting could resume. The fighting and many events happened until the restriction period came around again in 981-86.
Oh,I also searched for the red and orange moon,the moon is orange after the summer solstice,but it could be orange at many times of the year, but no one can argue that definition of "manazel" describes well a "descending" moon!it
s true that "descending" will take place only until the moon is a thinning crescent and then well be ascending again to the next full one,but its a good marker to point which point shall be a start.. The moon of the summer solstice is at its lowest point,compared to the sun at its highest point,this IS a special phenomenon.. Thank you for this invitation to look around and ponder in Gods creation..Exactly, it is because the full-moon arouns the solstice is at its lowest point and takes the lowest path accross the horizon that it appears more vivid red and stays red longer than any other full-moon. The full-moon right after the solstice in addition to the red color also has the association with heat so it fits best the meaning of "ramadhan".
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Tlepsh,
I agree that it wasn't 8 years. It was 8 feasts. These could at the soonest happen over 2 years (4 feasts per year). Since Moses was hired to be a helper and water and tend for sheep and not hired as somekind of a lawyer then this actually confirms the meaning of "hajj" as feast and not as anything having to do with "overcoming of one another person in argument by evidences".
Peace,
Ayman
Peace Ayman,
?3id? (د or (د An occurrence that befalls, or betides one, or that happens to one; a festival, a periodical festival; a feast day (م so called because it returns every year with renewed joy or from (د because people return to it.; or from (ة ?a custom? because they are accustomed to it.
The word ?3id? is used in Quran in 5.114. to mean feast.On the other hand almost all over the quran ?hajj? and its derivatives are used to mean ?argue and dispute?
Then why not mentioned to be ?eight a3yad?
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Peace Tlepsh,
?3id? (د or (د An occurrence that befalls, or betides one, or that happens to one; a festival, a periodical festival; a feast day (م so called because it returns every year with renewed joy or from (د because people return to it.; or from (ة ?a custom? because they are accustomed to it.
The word ?3id? is used in Quran in 5.114. to mean feast.
On the other hand almost all over the quran ?hajj? and its derivatives are used to mean ?argue and dispute?
Then why not mentioned to be ?eight a3yad?Not long ago, I used to think that "hajj" means "debate" too. However, in reality when we read the purpose of the "hajj" in 2228 we see that it is to witness benefits and to remember the name of the god on what he gave us from the livestock. We are told to eat from it and feed the poor. In fact, if we carefully read the whole passage from 2227-37, we can realize that 90% of it is about the livestock. So this is about eating and feeding others the livestock's meat. What do we call that? This is a feast.
Such annual feasts were common and the people of the book had them. On the other hand, none of the people of the book came from all over to "overcome of one another person in argument by evidences" and certainly Moses wasn't hired to so this but he was hired to water and tend sheep!
Unless you want to suggest that "hajj" is an entirely new concept that didn't start with Abraham then please see how the people of the book understood it
From http//www.infobot.org/factpacks/old_test_meanings.fact
Haggai => feast
Haggiah => the Lord's feast
Haggith => rejoicingSee also
http//books.google.com/books?q=hebrew+hagg+feast&btnG=Search+Books
So the concept of "hagg"/"feast" is a mundane common concept that was well known to the people of the book. The word "3eed" doesn't mean a feast with FREE FOOD. It means a celebration. So the difference is the emphasis on FREE FOOD.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Ayman,
Not long ago, I used to think that "hajj" means "debate" too. However, in reality when we read the purpose of the "hajj" in 2228 we see that it is to witness benefits and to remember the name of the god on what he gave us from the livestock.
So people owe it to the god (397) to come from the farthest locations (2227) just to get together to eat meat and thank the god for the meat? Kind of extravagant and pointless if you can ask me because you can eat meat at home and still thank the god for the meat. I think understanding hajj as a symposium makes more sense.
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Peace Ayman
Great work !
Just a few questions
1 When was the first dictionary of classical Arabic written ?
2What is the proof that the meaning which we are getting from them are the same as these were in pre-Quranic era ?
3What were the names of the months in the Pre -Quranic era what is the proof of their names or the Arabs were without days and months?
4How will you translate some english phrases into Arabica Present month
bLast monthI will appreciate if you spare some time to elaborate all these confusing points.
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Peace Q_student,
Thank you for your kind comments and questions. Many people contributed to this work through out the discussion and we wouldn?t have improved our understanding if it wasn?t for the god?s guidance.
1 When was the first dictionary of classical Arabic written ?
The first Classical Arabic dictionary is Lisan Al-3arab written by Ibn Al-Manzoor (1233-1311CE) who relied on Abu Mansur Al-Azhari (895-980CE).
2What is the proof that the meaning which we are getting from them are the same as these were in pre-Quranic era ?
There is no proof. In fact, quite the opposite, there is plenty of proof that Classical Arabic dictionaries are full of errors and misclassifications. This is why, like any tool, one needs to understand their limitations and biases and use them intelligently and not blindly. One way to use them is to figure out the etymology, which indicates the older meaning that the other meanings were derived from.
3What were the names of the months in the Pre -Quranic era what is the proof of their names or the Arabs were without days and months?
Calendars serve a function in society. In pre-Islamic times, the Arabs didn?t have their own calendar but used a variety of calendars depending on their needs. For example, for the nomads the purpose for using a calendar was to know the seasons, which dictate their movements in the wilderness to find grazing areas for their livestock. Therefore, their year was divided into 6 months Jamad Al-Awwal, Jamad Al-Thanni, Rabi Al-Awwal, Sayf, Qayz, Rabi Al-Thanni, Kharif. Please note that Rabi Al-Awwal (first grazing) occurred in early spring and Rabi Al-Thanni (second grazing) occurred in fall.
We actually have a lot of evidence about the names of the months that were used in Arabia. This is due to the fact that there are many inscriptions where the author mentions the date. However, there is no evidence of the so-called Islamic calendar. This indicates that the new Islamic calendar is an invention of the post-Quranic Islamic empire. Even traditions readily admit that the calendar was invented at the time of Umar I and so at the time of the prophet certainly a different calendar was used.
Note that some of the names of the Umar I months were taken from the calendar of the nomads and some appear to relate the Jewish calendar, for example Safar is related etymologically to Shofar or the blowing of the trumpet during the holidays in the Jewish month of Tishrei and Dhu al-Hijjah is related to the timing of the Jewish feast/?hagg?.
The inscriptions in Southern and Central Arabia show that the Arabs there used the Sabaean calendar, where the year began in April. Here are the names of the months in that calendar
http//i42.tinypic.com/29fxpqv.jpg
In northern Arabia, the city dwellers used calendars that allowed them to do business and organize their affairs. Cities that did business with the Romans used the calendar of the Romans and those that did business with the Persians used the calendar of the Persians, and the cities with large Jewish populations used the Jewish calendar.
Some Arabs followed the Byzantines in beginning the year in September, while the Arab Nestorians followed the Macedonian custom of beginning the year in October. Moreover, instead of borrowing the Latin names, the Arab Nestorian communities retained most of the month-names of the ancient Babylonian luni-solar calendar (also used, with some modification, as the religious calendar of the Jews), but they redefined these to make each one correspond to a Julian month. (See Encl. of Islam II, Tarikh)
The Arabs also used the calendar of the Persians and this continued into the Islamic era. The Persian calendar is functionally identical with that of the ancient Egyptians. It had a vague year of 365 days, divided between 12 months of 30 days each plus five extra days known as the five ?stolen? days.
4How will you translate some english phrases into Arabic
a Present month
b Last monthThere is no word for "month" in the great reading. The great reading is not concerned with manmade calendars but with universal cosmic phenomena that are independent of culture and calendars. Pre-quranic inscriptions often use the words "warkh" or "yarkh" (which doesn?t occur in the great reading) to mean "month". For example, see "yarkh" used in the inscription below
http//www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Inscriptions/raqush.html
Please note above the month name Tammuz.
Also, see "warkh" used in the inscription below
http//www.mnh.si.edu/EPIGRAPHY/e_pre-islamic/fig04_sabaean.htm
So ?present month? in pre-Islamic times would have been translated as ?h-al yarkh? and ?last month? would have been translated as something like ?al-yarkh al-mady?.
I will appreciate if you spare some time to elaborate all these confusing points.
One additional point to elaborate on is the meaning of the word ?nasi?a? in 937. As I mentioned in the first post on this thread there is no agreement on what the word ?nasi?a? in 937 means. A pre-Islamic South Arabian inscription from Haram (CIH 547) provides a clue for what this word could mean. Here the authors offer their excuses to their idol for that they had not performed a certain ritual in the required month, when war had forced them to flee their country, but ?postponed? (?nas?w?) it until another month. As a result of this impiety, their idol withheld the waters during the winter and summer growing seasons, whereupon the authors promised not to repeat their transgression in future (See Encl. of Islam II, Tarikh). It is quite clear from the context in the Haram inscription, that at least the verb nasa? has nothing to do with intercalation as is traditionally thought, but with the moving of a practice within the year itself. So the present so-called Islamic calendar has absolutely no basis.
I hope this helps.
Peace,
Ayman
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Salaam
First of all thanks a lot for your precious timeThe first Classical Arabic dictionary is Lisan Al-3arab written by Ibn Al-Manzoor (1233-1311CE) who relied on Abu Mansur Al-Azhari (895-980CE).
Sorry to say your information is not correct.Ibne Manzoor was in 8th Centrury (A.H) i.e 716 AH
While first dictionary which was compiled was "Kitaabul Ain" by Khalil who died in 169 AH
After it many dictionaries were written in different centuries which include
In the 3rd Century we had
Kitaabul ishtiqaaq by Akhfash
Gharibul musannaf by Abu Ubaid
Kitaabul Adhdad by Abu al Hatim Sahl
Kitaabul ishtiqaaq by Mubarrid
Alkaamil fil Lugha by Al Mubarrrid
Sooooooooooooooooo many other in different centuries before lisaan ul Arab ,like Jamharatul lugha by Ibne Duraid
Miqyaasul Lugha, Al lughatul Mojam ,Al saahibi by Ibne Faaris
Sihaah Fil Lugha by Al jauhari
Al mohkam wal MuheetThis is a very small list which was written before Lisaan ul Arab
There is no proof. In fact, quite the opposite, there is plenty of proof that Classical Arabic dictionaries are full of errors and misclassifications. This is why, like any tool, one needs to understand their limitations and biases and use them intelligently and not blindly. One way to use them is to figure out the etymology, which indicates the older meaning that the other meanings were derived from.
When these are all unreliable sources why do you refer to them off and on ?
We actually have a lot of evidence about the names of the months that were used in Arabia. This is due to the fact that there are many inscriptions where the author mentions the date. However, there is no evidence of the so-called Islamic calendar. This indicates that the new Islamic calendar is an invention of the post-Quranic Islamic empire. Even traditions readily admit that the calendar was invented at the time of Umar I and so at the time of the prophet certainly a different calendar was used.
Inscriptions are as UNREILIABLE AS HADITH STUFF.
If the Arabs did not know how to write then where these incriptions came from. I do not know the reason for using "extra - Quranic sources " for the Quran which is complete and "mufassal"
Sunnies use Hadith as extra Quranic sources
Quran alone use Dictionaries as extra Quranic source
Submitters use code 19 as extra Quranic source
You use use inscriptions as extra Quranic sourcesIf at all you want to prove something prove it from the Quran not from
-Hadith
-Code 19
-Dictionaries(according to you)
-Incriptions
because all this stuff is equally unreliable and fabricated.
