Intercourse: Allowed During Fasting!
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Peace,
Fasting is not only abstaining from food and drink nor is stress applicable only to married males -- singles, females; all have urges/desires which fasting does help control.
As with most problems breaking it down to its simplest components usually works best. To give an example, a person has to make up one day due to being ill. Fasting is during the day, the night before it is permitted obviously since fasting has not started, and after sunset the fast is complete. Therefore that part of the verse would be unnecessary as such except the case was initially
A. Sex during day of the fasting = NO
B. Sex during night of the fasting = NOThus verse came to clarify flip the bit on B only, A allowed to continue which fits the context and logic.
2187 (It) became/is permitted/allowed to you (the) night of the fasting the obscenity/ indecency (intercourse), to your women (wives), they are (F) a cover/wives to you and you are a cover/husbands to them (F), God knew that you were betraying/being unfaithful (to) yourselves, so He forgave on you, and He forgave/pardoned on you, so now touch their (F) outer skin, and desire what God has written for you, and eat and drink until the thread the white appears from the thread the black from the dawn, then complete the fasting to the night and do not touch their outer skin (while) you are devoting in the mosques/places of worshipping God. Those are God's limits/orders, so do not approach/near it, like that God clarifies His verses/evidences to the people, maybe they fear and obey.
Of course all are free to plead ignorance say it was not explicitly stated even though it is right there in bold.
"permitted to you (the) night of the fasting" -- it's clear as night and day...
http//www.all-creatures.org/hope/gw/images/earth-day-night%20-crop_mast.jpg
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Here is the very beginning of the ayat! It is permitted to be with your wives on the nights of fasting. Where is the question for this at all when the fasting begins only from the dawn and ends at dusk? This part of the ayat has been necessitated from Allah because the mischief mongers like the mullah-hadith propagandists, swearing by the prophet, threateningly enforced the falsehood, in the name of the prophet, upon the people that they could not have the relationship with their wives. With the first part of the ayat the confusion created by the hadith miscreants of all times is put to end.
Any obsession makes things obscure. When this was being stated there were no mullh-hadith propagandists in the sense we understand it today. No one asked for clarification about having or abstaining intercourse in the night or day of Ramazan. People were however supressing sexual urge in the nights. Allah disclosed this private affair of some of the people, by telling them
Intercourse with wives in the night of Ramazan had been made permissible in aforetimes. In the law books, prescribing what is lawful and what is not lawful, the words are to be strictly construed as to the perception they convey. "It is permitted" are not there in the book. Correctly translate the opening words, the entire statement would be crystal clear.
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Any obsession makes things obscure.
Any obsession makes things obscure - This statement is totally unwarranted here for no one can say if I am obsessed or not; do not talk about that you do not know. Stick to the subject if you have substance.
No one asked for clarification about having or abstaining intercourse in the night or day of Ramazan.
Don't you know this Book has come to clarify every issue that you have been disputing about? Does not Allah know what is in your hearts? Does not Allah know your weaknesses and where His Signs must be elaborated? and where it shall have to be abbreviated like Alif Laam Meem etc.? Still do you maintain No one has asked for clarification about having or abstaining from sex in the night or day of fasting? And you say Allah was telling privately to some people who were deceiving themselves by being unfaithful to Allah, "Have intercourse from now?"
People were however supressing sexual urge in the nights. Allah disclosed this private affair of some of the people, by telling them
Why were they suppressing unless there were some mullah or self styled ulema gang that imposed and frightened the gullible public regarding the sex?
Intercourse with wives in the night of Ramazan had been made permissible in aforetimes.
So now it is denied that has been made permissible in the aforetimes! Good.
In the law books, prescribing what is lawful and what is not lawful
Which Law Book apart from the Only Book, The Quran?
The words are to be strictly construed as to the perception they convey
.Any ayat which endorses your above view? I will be greatly obliged if you can refer the chapter and the ayat. When you say perception it varies from individual to individual; then where is the question of strictly construing? If a word is to be strictly construed, then there cannot be another word from arabic dictionary to that we find in the original ayat.
"It is permitted" are not there in the book. Correctly translate the opening words, the entire statement would be crystal clear.
Who should endorse whose translation is correct? Allah, isn't it? So exchange your views; it is welcome if it has sense and substance.
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Peace,
2187 (It) became/is permitted/allowed to you (the) night of the fasting the obscenity/ indecency (intercourse), to your women (wives), they are (F) a cover/wives to you and you are a cover/husbands to them (F), God knew that you were betraying/being unfaithful (to) yourselves, so He forgave on you, and He ...
It would be well appreciated if you remove / .... / .... / .... / .... / .... / so many thesaurus and simply write your understanding with just one meaning.
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Any obsession makes things obscure ?
It is an established fact, need no further evidence/argument.
In the law books, prescribing what is lawful and what is not lawful, the words are to be strictly construed as to the perception they convey.
It is something which is universally accepted by the sane majority. No one challenges it.
Please translate
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It is an established fact, need no further evidence/argument.
It is something which is universally accepted by the sane majority. No one challenges it.
Please translate
Made lawful for you; there were no laws forbidding it before. So it is not " It is now made lawful for you " but already it is a permitted one, a lawful one. In between who created this confusion? Is it that the miscreants who grab the lay people in the garb of self-styled imams and religious leaders? When you say it is an established fact, you admit it is not the truth but only the fact. Truth shall confirm the fact or fact shall conform to the Truth. You go by the fact i.e., popular idea, the idolized ideology. It is in actuality a form of idol worshipping. You shall know the words like established fact is yet to be confirmed as the Truth. Before confirmation how can you follow something even if it is claimed to be established, by the majority of the people? You should correct them and convert them back to the actuality. How as a muslim who shall believe in having the light and guidance only from Allah, follow the universal majority? I am challenging the none, but not The One.
Peace.
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It would be well appreciated if you remove / .... / .... / .... / .... / .... / so many thesaurus and simply write your understanding with just one meaning.
Perhaps a picture and antonyms will convey the one meaning.
http//s5.tinypic.com/nej31x.jpg
Night is opposite of daytime.
Permissible is opposite of prohibited.
2187 Permissible to you night of the fasting the intercourse
?so now have sex
?and eat and drink until the dawnHumans have capacity to understand simple IF THEN TRUE/FALSE logic.
IF explicitly stated permissible night of the fasting THEN deduced as to daytime in context = FALSE!
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Perhaps a picture and antonyms will convey the one meaning.
Night is opposite of daytime.
Permissible is opposite of prohibited.Pictures and antonyms will convey The One's True meaning? I do not think it is so true. Perhaps you might reconsider your statement and reference.
2187 Permissible to you night of the fasting the intercourse
?so now have sex
?and eat and drink until the dawnYou have overlooked as unimportant or neglected as unnecessary the in between parts of the ayat in your Reading. Your neglected part of the ayat I have colored in bold blue. Read and answer my questions below
Permitted to you, on the night of the fasts, is the approach to your wives. They are your garments and ye are their garments. Allah knoweth what ye used to do secretly among yourselves; but He turned to you and forgave you; so now associate with them.
Q 1 What do you think about the garments?
Q 2 When are the garments mostly essential - during the day when you will be out on the streets? Or when you are retiring to your bed during the noon time?
Q 3 In the noon time when you are in your privacy without garment, fulfilling your natural needs, Allah forbids the entry of the children and those that have come of age without permission because it is a time for the couple who are in need as to preserve their chastity, garmenting each other, preparing and purifying themselves to go out.
Q 4 But you forbid yourselves what was made lawful for you and thus have become a deceiving people. In this context you can remember Allah chiding the christian monks who forbade themselves from marrying when Allah had not made marriage a forbidden one in order to be monks, thus harming and wronging themselves. Now don't you think it is the same situation of a different kind when you forbid what is made lawful to you?
Q 5 Any way Allah has forgiven us until now because of His Mercy. So now from this day onwards we are again clarified the lawful donning of chastity, the best and the most beautiful of all the garments that a husband and wife can wear on each other. What is your take now?
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You have overlooked as unimportant or neglected as unnecessary the in between parts of the ayat in your Reading. Your neglected part of the ayat I have colored in bold blue. Read and answer my questions below
Permitted to you, on the night of the fasts, is the approach to your wives. They are your garments and ye are their garments. Allah knoweth what ye used to do secretly among yourselves; but He turned to you and forgave you; so now associate with them.
Q 1 What do you think about the garments?
Q 2 When are the garments mostly essential - during the day when you will be out on the streets? Or when you are retiring to your bed during the noon time?
Not about physical garments or walking the streets naked at night because it's dark (they are always essential).
Cover (libasan ) descended on people were not clothes falling from the sky rather a state of mind to cover desires, not be like animals; what fasting is about.
726 and the cover (mindset) of righteousness is the best
Q 3 In the noon time when you are in your privacy without garment, fulfilling your natural needs, Allah forbids the entry of the children and those that have come of age without permission because it is a time for the couple who are in need as to preserve their chastity, garmenting each other, preparing and purifying themselves to go out.
http//www.openburhan.net/ob_w.php?w=46153
Browse Word
Browse LocationPhysical clothes are different from metaphorical coverings.
http//www.openburhan.net/ob_w.php?w=3444
Browse Word
Browse Root
Browse LocationWadaraba Allahu mathalanqaryatan kanat aminatan mutma-innatanya/teeha rizquha raghadan min kulli makaninfakafarat bi-anAAumi Allahi faathaqaha Allahulibasa aljooAAi waalkhawfi bima kanooyasnaAAoona
Q 4 But you forbid yourselves what was made lawful for you and thus have become a deceiving people. In this context you can remember Allah chiding the christian monks who forbade themselves from marrying when Allah had not made marriage a forbidden one in order to be monks, thus harming and wronging themselves. Now don't you think it is the same situation of a different kind when you forbid what is made lawful to you?
No, verse says permissible to you night of the fasting NOT permissible during the fasting.
Have another look at the picture, imagine a pie and which half is permissible...
http//s5.tinypic.com/nej31x.jpgThe word night in the verse is explicit and nullifies permissiveness during daytime.
Q 5 Any way Allah has forgiven us until now because of His Mercy. So now from this day onwards we are again clarified the lawful donning of chastity, the best and the most beautiful of all the garments that a husband and wife can wear on each other. What is your take now?
May take is you are making lawful what is clearly in Quran not lawful and for the bizarre reason of inability to control desire for about 12 hours from dawn to sunset; what people manage to control everyday when they go off to work.
Peace
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There was no perception except that eating and drinking is permissible during the night and it is not permissible during the day. Perception of some regarding sex was that it is prohibited for whole month, day and night inclusive. The point was clarified that it had been made permissible during the nights to have sex with wife. Telling that it was made permissible does not mean it was earlier not permissible. It is about telling the laid down law. Minus the part of eating and drinking it reads
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Doing sex, eating and drinking are all physical acts permissible in the night upto a certain cutting moment. In other months sex is permitted not by reference to night but after Isha and before Fajr prayer. From sun set to time of Isha is excluded from night, while in Ramazan it is included in night for sex. Therefore three sex times mentioned in An Noor are separate from Ramzan.
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Night by night, nutrition and reproduction are allowed. In the day these things are forbidden as they form part of the fast.
So where is the big argument? I fail to see it.
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Not about physical garments or walking the streets naked at night because it's dark (they are always essential).
Right! it is not physical garment but a garment to the mind - to be mentally pure from unlawful and forbidden sexual emotions is utmost essential during fasting; Allah has shown clearly the way towards such state of mind which people deny like hermits thus wronging their own souls. How will you protect your mind from such illegal emotions?
Physical clothes are different from metaphorical coverings.
So true!
Wadaraba Allahu mathalanqaryatan kanat aminatan mutma-innatanya/teeha rizquha raghadan min kulli makaninfakafarat bi-anAAumi Allahi faathaqaha Allahulibasa aljooAAi waalkhawfi bima kanooyasnaAAoona
There is no doubt with regard to various clothing para physically; the subject is not that whatsoever.
No, verse says permissible to you night of the fasting NOT permissible during the fasting.
Such are the Muthashabiha ayats whose real meanings Allah alone knows! the whole of 2 187 is mutashabiha. This is exactly the reason why this thread is going on; it is left for individuals to ponder over, think and act according to the clarity they receive from Allah
Have another look at the picture, imagine a pie and which half is permissible...
http//s5.tinypic.com/nej31x.jpgWhen it comes to Quran, there is no imagination or assumptions; ponder over and seek from Allah the Guidance, sure!
My take is you are making lawful what is clearly in Quran not lawful and for the bizarre reason of inability to control desire for about 12 hours from dawn to sunset; what people manage to control everyday when they go off to work.
The word night in the verse is explicit and nullifies permissiveness during daytime. No, verse says permissible to you night of the fasting NOT permissible during the fasting.
There is both green signal and red signal in the statements above contradicting each other. Consider revising the take.
Peace
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May take is you are making lawful what is clearly in Quran not lawful and for the bizarre reason of inability to control desire for about 12 hours from dawn to sunset; what people manage to control everyday when they go off to work.
You want to remove the desire and don the garment of pure mind by abiding by the lawful allowance? Or you want to control the desire? This means your desires are heightened to the peak at the end of 12 hours at the end of which you go out of control; and the whole exercise of exercising and the very purpose of fasting has become null and void.
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Telling that it was made permissible does not mean it was earlier not permissible. It is about telling the laid down law. Minus the part of eating and drinking it reads
.........
Does it mean eating and drinking is prohibited in the night and not laid down in the law? If the fasting is related to the day time, where is the question of law for the night? Hence the verse starts with the clarification and clear the confusion created by the mischief mongers at the time. Then the rest of the ayat is with regard to the day time, full and full!
Doing sex, eating and drinking are all physical acts permissible in the night upto a certain cutting moment. In other months sex is permitted not by reference to night but after Isha and before Fajr prayer. From sun set to time of Isha is excluded from night, while in Ramazan it is included in night for sex. Therefore three sex times mentioned in An Noor are separate from Ramzan.
The red part is exclusively not linked to the ayat concerning fasting. Nobody claimed the three times mentioned in An Noor is part of Ramadhan.
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The red part is exclusively not linked to the ayat concerning fasting. Nobody claimed the three times mentioned in An Noor is part of Ramadhan.
If this is not linked how would you reconcile the permission in the "night" of ramzan which starts immediately with sunset while Isha prayer is the night much later than sun set when night has darkened.
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How will you protect your mind from such illegal emotions?
Ask yourself; suggestive emotions (noontime quickies during fasting) are not illegal.
Acting on them is; suggest Quran get the mind right!
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkhP8te-1RESo true!
There is no doubt with regard to various clothing para physically; the subject is not that whatsoever.
Therefore, bringing up noontime putting off physical clothes is not whatsoever.
Such are the Muthashabiha ayats whose real meanings Allah alone knows! the whole of 2 187 is mutashabiha. This is exactly the reason why this thread is going on; it is left for individuals to ponder over, think and act according to the clarity they receive from Allah
2187 is very clear.
When it comes to Quran, there is no imagination or assumptions; ponder over and seek from Allah the Guidance, sure!
To imagine is to think, see a view whereas to assume is to accept without viewing. Quran always asks the viewer to imagine, think, and ponder all views.
There is both green signal and red signal in the statements above contradicting each other. Consider revising the take.
Contradiction is to assume permissible day of the fasting when the verse explicitly states permissible to you night of the fasting. Day and night are not same.
You want to remove the desire and don the garment of pure mind by abiding by the lawful allowance? Or you want to control the desire? This means your desires are heightened to the peak at the end of 12 hours at the end of which you go out of control; and the whole exercise of exercising and the very purpose of fasting has become null and void.
No, that is describing people who flip routines; sleep all day party all night.
The fasting time is an exercise about being ever mindful, perhaps it carries to other days.Night by night, nutrition and reproduction are allowed. In the day these things are forbidden as they form part of the fast.
So where is the big argument? I fail to see it.
Good to see clear viewer.
Peace
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DrFazl,
Truth is marching ahead and its matchless.GOD blessings upon you (and we cannot praise you...)
All the praise leads to the Allah the lord of the Oh universes...Our Prayer is evaluated as follows...
"OH Lord! Teach us Quran and make us to live by that and make us to call you and You alone...And never make us unforgotful to you even during sleep so that we do not slip you my Lord"
"OH Lord make us humble and restore as the level of ADAM, the man whom do you adore an satified and taught every wisdom of the universe and brought in front of Angels and Jinis"
"OH Lord prepare us to the level of ADAM and we totally surrender to you and not by the way of Physical Posture but with Mental posture which is unseen"
"OH Lord You commanded human to Pray Silenty, humbly and seceretly without showing off..Oh Lord you make us to follow that"
"OH Lord Forgive me while wrting this ... If any mistakes please forgive me...Remove our proudness and make us humble"
"OH Lord never make us to get into argument which you dont like"
"OH Lord make us Muslims as Ibrahim and Ismail prayed to you"
"OH Lord never makes us to feel jealous for anything and reinstall our nature the way You wish it".."Oh lord make us satisfy with you and inturn you are satisfied with us"...
"OH Lord make our heart broadminded matching to that of sky, we give off the way Rain does at your command"
"OH Lord Give us Wisdom & knowledge to live on the clouds and travel the we we like"
"OH Lord the Way you blessed King Sulaiman and make us capable of attaining the kind of Widsom"
"OH Lord Give Us Peace and get away from evil money which is monkey life makes peace shattered to pieces"
"OH Lord Give us fantastic food for our Mind to relish and make us tired by giving others"
"OH Lord make us never to save anything and shave off everything and live in abundence of our needs"
"OH Lord Give us Company of GOOD people with GODly feelings"
"OH Lord Never make us tired in remembering You"
"Oh Lord make us never forget you"
"OH Lord Satan is intelligent ...Protect us from Satan in every breathe".
"OH Make us to follow you and You alone and show us the right path"
"OH Lord Make us to Live with Human Beings "...
"OH Lord send us Rain whenever we wish"
"OH Lord forgive our sins and make us to feel when we overtake you and increase our wisdom so that we will cut away from sins"
"OH Lord give us clarity and increase our inner fear"
"OH lord make our life hidden enjoying all your blessings right from Flying in the sky with peace enjoy the delicious food and drinks and enjoy in the rains and live in the peace and resting and Make us to belive that you are enough"
"Oh lord All the Good is from You"
"Oh Lord make us fearless and worryless life"
"OH Lod Give fish, prawns, lobster etc from the sky I dont want ask from people"
"OH lord Give us fruits with ripeness and juice sprouting around"
"OH Make our Heart strong and never become week"
"OH lord protect us from Anger and make us to do good to parents"
"OH lord remove the bad thoughts"
"Oh Lord make my prayer evolve each day"
"Oh lord increase my capacity of understanding"
"Oh Lord make us to follow Ibrahim and Ayub while they fallen into disease"
"Oh Lord You said the disease is in the heart and not in the body... Make our heart pure"...
"OH Lord we should and honour respect and teach to to respect you and honour you"
"OH lord make us to live majestically and bless with wisdom in front of wordly filthy education which is behind money making"
"OH Lord you dont ask anything and give us everyting and teach us how to lead a hidden life"
"Oh Lord teach us how to live without proud and vanity and with vastness of wisdom"
"Oh Lord increase the production of fruits and we should not pay anything and let the Vendors run to hell ( I love mangoes...)"
"Oh Lord save us from fire"
"OH lord make us that we belong to you as You have created from nowhere...and make us to ive in water without breathe and you gave the first breate.. And make us thankful to you"...
Lord we love You... You are giving food... Today I bought tiger prawns and you created for me... Lord let everone who is afraid of you in this universe eat
fatastic food....Lord Make us to love u...
"Oh Lord make our life simpler, light and delightful"
"Oh lord make us to live as a sample to others so that we help others with ur command"
"Oh Lord make us to live with your satisfaction"
Love
Jango O0 -
Lord we love You... You are giving food... Today I bought tiger prawns and you created for me... Lord let everone who is afraid of you in this universe eat
fatastic food....Lord Make us to love u...
"Oh Lord make our life simpler, light and delightful"
"Oh lord make us to live as a sample to others so that we help others with ur command"
"Oh Lord make us to live with your satisfaction"
This is the command
You exactly follow me in letter and spirit, without in between there being intervention/third party, Allah will love you people and for you He will overlook/forgive your wrong-doings". And Allah is The Forgiving/Overlooking, The Merciful.