Intercourse: Allowed During Fasting!
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Not about physical garments or walking the streets naked at night because it's dark (they are always essential).
Right! it is not physical garment but a garment to the mind - to be mentally pure from unlawful and forbidden sexual emotions is utmost essential during fasting; Allah has shown clearly the way towards such state of mind which people deny like hermits thus wronging their own souls. How will you protect your mind from such illegal emotions?
Physical clothes are different from metaphorical coverings.
So true!
Wadaraba Allahu mathalanqaryatan kanat aminatan mutma-innatanya/teeha rizquha raghadan min kulli makaninfakafarat bi-anAAumi Allahi faathaqaha Allahulibasa aljooAAi waalkhawfi bima kanooyasnaAAoona
There is no doubt with regard to various clothing para physically; the subject is not that whatsoever.
No, verse says permissible to you night of the fasting NOT permissible during the fasting.
Such are the Muthashabiha ayats whose real meanings Allah alone knows! the whole of 2 187 is mutashabiha. This is exactly the reason why this thread is going on; it is left for individuals to ponder over, think and act according to the clarity they receive from Allah
Have another look at the picture, imagine a pie and which half is permissible...
http//s5.tinypic.com/nej31x.jpgWhen it comes to Quran, there is no imagination or assumptions; ponder over and seek from Allah the Guidance, sure!
My take is you are making lawful what is clearly in Quran not lawful and for the bizarre reason of inability to control desire for about 12 hours from dawn to sunset; what people manage to control everyday when they go off to work.
The word night in the verse is explicit and nullifies permissiveness during daytime. No, verse says permissible to you night of the fasting NOT permissible during the fasting.
There is both green signal and red signal in the statements above contradicting each other. Consider revising the take.
Peace
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May take is you are making lawful what is clearly in Quran not lawful and for the bizarre reason of inability to control desire for about 12 hours from dawn to sunset; what people manage to control everyday when they go off to work.
You want to remove the desire and don the garment of pure mind by abiding by the lawful allowance? Or you want to control the desire? This means your desires are heightened to the peak at the end of 12 hours at the end of which you go out of control; and the whole exercise of exercising and the very purpose of fasting has become null and void.
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Telling that it was made permissible does not mean it was earlier not permissible. It is about telling the laid down law. Minus the part of eating and drinking it reads
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Does it mean eating and drinking is prohibited in the night and not laid down in the law? If the fasting is related to the day time, where is the question of law for the night? Hence the verse starts with the clarification and clear the confusion created by the mischief mongers at the time. Then the rest of the ayat is with regard to the day time, full and full!
Doing sex, eating and drinking are all physical acts permissible in the night upto a certain cutting moment. In other months sex is permitted not by reference to night but after Isha and before Fajr prayer. From sun set to time of Isha is excluded from night, while in Ramazan it is included in night for sex. Therefore three sex times mentioned in An Noor are separate from Ramzan.
The red part is exclusively not linked to the ayat concerning fasting. Nobody claimed the three times mentioned in An Noor is part of Ramadhan.
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The red part is exclusively not linked to the ayat concerning fasting. Nobody claimed the three times mentioned in An Noor is part of Ramadhan.
If this is not linked how would you reconcile the permission in the "night" of ramzan which starts immediately with sunset while Isha prayer is the night much later than sun set when night has darkened.
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How will you protect your mind from such illegal emotions?
Ask yourself; suggestive emotions (noontime quickies during fasting) are not illegal.
Acting on them is; suggest Quran get the mind right!
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkhP8te-1RESo true!
There is no doubt with regard to various clothing para physically; the subject is not that whatsoever.
Therefore, bringing up noontime putting off physical clothes is not whatsoever.
Such are the Muthashabiha ayats whose real meanings Allah alone knows! the whole of 2 187 is mutashabiha. This is exactly the reason why this thread is going on; it is left for individuals to ponder over, think and act according to the clarity they receive from Allah
2187 is very clear.
When it comes to Quran, there is no imagination or assumptions; ponder over and seek from Allah the Guidance, sure!
To imagine is to think, see a view whereas to assume is to accept without viewing. Quran always asks the viewer to imagine, think, and ponder all views.
There is both green signal and red signal in the statements above contradicting each other. Consider revising the take.
Contradiction is to assume permissible day of the fasting when the verse explicitly states permissible to you night of the fasting. Day and night are not same.
You want to remove the desire and don the garment of pure mind by abiding by the lawful allowance? Or you want to control the desire? This means your desires are heightened to the peak at the end of 12 hours at the end of which you go out of control; and the whole exercise of exercising and the very purpose of fasting has become null and void.
No, that is describing people who flip routines; sleep all day party all night.
The fasting time is an exercise about being ever mindful, perhaps it carries to other days.Night by night, nutrition and reproduction are allowed. In the day these things are forbidden as they form part of the fast.
So where is the big argument? I fail to see it.
Good to see clear viewer.
Peace
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DrFazl,
Truth is marching ahead and its matchless.GOD blessings upon you (and we cannot praise you...)
All the praise leads to the Allah the lord of the Oh universes...Our Prayer is evaluated as follows...
"OH Lord! Teach us Quran and make us to live by that and make us to call you and You alone...And never make us unforgotful to you even during sleep so that we do not slip you my Lord"
"OH Lord make us humble and restore as the level of ADAM, the man whom do you adore an satified and taught every wisdom of the universe and brought in front of Angels and Jinis"
"OH Lord prepare us to the level of ADAM and we totally surrender to you and not by the way of Physical Posture but with Mental posture which is unseen"
"OH Lord You commanded human to Pray Silenty, humbly and seceretly without showing off..Oh Lord you make us to follow that"
"OH Lord Forgive me while wrting this ... If any mistakes please forgive me...Remove our proudness and make us humble"
"OH Lord never make us to get into argument which you dont like"
"OH Lord make us Muslims as Ibrahim and Ismail prayed to you"
"OH Lord never makes us to feel jealous for anything and reinstall our nature the way You wish it".."Oh lord make us satisfy with you and inturn you are satisfied with us"...
"OH Lord make our heart broadminded matching to that of sky, we give off the way Rain does at your command"
"OH Lord Give us Wisdom & knowledge to live on the clouds and travel the we we like"
"OH Lord the Way you blessed King Sulaiman and make us capable of attaining the kind of Widsom"
"OH Lord Give Us Peace and get away from evil money which is monkey life makes peace shattered to pieces"
"OH Lord Give us fantastic food for our Mind to relish and make us tired by giving others"
"OH Lord make us never to save anything and shave off everything and live in abundence of our needs"
"OH Lord Give us Company of GOOD people with GODly feelings"
"OH Lord Never make us tired in remembering You"
"Oh Lord make us never forget you"
"OH Lord Satan is intelligent ...Protect us from Satan in every breathe".
"OH Make us to follow you and You alone and show us the right path"
"OH Lord Make us to Live with Human Beings "...
"OH Lord send us Rain whenever we wish"
"OH Lord forgive our sins and make us to feel when we overtake you and increase our wisdom so that we will cut away from sins"
"OH Lord give us clarity and increase our inner fear"
"OH lord make our life hidden enjoying all your blessings right from Flying in the sky with peace enjoy the delicious food and drinks and enjoy in the rains and live in the peace and resting and Make us to belive that you are enough"
"Oh lord All the Good is from You"
"Oh Lord make us fearless and worryless life"
"OH Lod Give fish, prawns, lobster etc from the sky I dont want ask from people"
"OH lord Give us fruits with ripeness and juice sprouting around"
"OH Make our Heart strong and never become week"
"OH lord protect us from Anger and make us to do good to parents"
"OH lord remove the bad thoughts"
"Oh Lord make my prayer evolve each day"
"Oh lord increase my capacity of understanding"
"Oh Lord make us to follow Ibrahim and Ayub while they fallen into disease"
"Oh Lord You said the disease is in the heart and not in the body... Make our heart pure"...
"OH Lord we should and honour respect and teach to to respect you and honour you"
"OH lord make us to live majestically and bless with wisdom in front of wordly filthy education which is behind money making"
"OH Lord you dont ask anything and give us everyting and teach us how to lead a hidden life"
"Oh Lord teach us how to live without proud and vanity and with vastness of wisdom"
"Oh Lord increase the production of fruits and we should not pay anything and let the Vendors run to hell ( I love mangoes...)"
"Oh Lord save us from fire"
"OH lord make us that we belong to you as You have created from nowhere...and make us to ive in water without breathe and you gave the first breate.. And make us thankful to you"...
Lord we love You... You are giving food... Today I bought tiger prawns and you created for me... Lord let everone who is afraid of you in this universe eat
fatastic food....Lord Make us to love u...
"Oh Lord make our life simpler, light and delightful"
"Oh lord make us to live as a sample to others so that we help others with ur command"
"Oh Lord make us to live with your satisfaction"
Love
Jango O0 -
Lord we love You... You are giving food... Today I bought tiger prawns and you created for me... Lord let everone who is afraid of you in this universe eat
fatastic food....Lord Make us to love u...
"Oh Lord make our life simpler, light and delightful"
"Oh lord make us to live as a sample to others so that we help others with ur command"
"Oh Lord make us to live with your satisfaction"
This is the command
You exactly follow me in letter and spirit, without in between there being intervention/third party, Allah will love you people and for you He will overlook/forgive your wrong-doings". And Allah is The Forgiving/Overlooking, The Merciful.
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If this is not linked how would you reconcile the permission in the "night" of ramzan which starts immediately with sunset while Isha prayer is the night much later than sun set when night has darkened.
It is not about the 'night of ramzan' that we discuss but the 'night of fast'. And there shall never be a need for this confusion if the fast is day time or the night time. What does fajr and isha indicate? What are the meanings of these? Then what is salat? Though people here have discusses at length in various threads, none can conclude what those words actually mean? By asking these questions I do not mean to deviate from the topic of this thread but asked so only to make each of us think and feel that there is a lot to go on and on and on before we each individualize the meanings of the words and the verses of quran and start realizing the God and most obediently follow Him actualizing the 'salat'. So now before following fajr, isha and salat it is only pertinent to exchange the original opinions of each other.
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2187 is very clear. To imagine is to think, see a view whereas to assume is to accept without viewing. Quran always asks the viewer to imagine, think, and ponder all views.
Imagine means conjecturing a mental picture and taking it for granted without proof. Does Quran always endorse such way? And then ponder over the false views? In this way 2 187 is very clear to you. May Allah Bless.
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DrFazl,
Truth is marching ahead and its matchless.GOD blessings upon you (and we cannot praise you...)
All the praise leads to the Allah the lord of the Oh universes...Our Prayer is evaluated as follows...
"OH Lord! Teach us Quran and make us to live by that and make us to call you and You alone...And never make us unforgotful to you even during sleep so that we do not slip you my Lord"
"OH Lord make us humble and restore as the level of ADAM, the man whom do you adore an satified and taught every wisdom of the universe and brought in front of Angels and Jinis"
"OH Lord prepare us to the level of ADAM and we totally surrender to you and not by the way of Physical Posture but with Mental posture which is unseen"
"OH Lord You commanded human to Pray Silenty, humbly and seceretly without showing off..Oh Lord you make us to follow that"
"OH Lord Forgive me while wrting this ... If any mistakes please forgive me...Remove our proudness and make us humble"
"OH Lord never make us to get into argument which you dont like"
"OH Lord make us Muslims as Ibrahim and Ismail prayed to you"
"OH Lord never makes us to feel jealous for anything and reinstall our nature the way You wish it".."Oh lord make us satisfy with you and inturn you are satisfied with us"...
"OH Lord make our heart broadminded matching to that of sky, we give off the way Rain does at your command"
"OH Lord Give us Wisdom & knowledge to live on the clouds and travel the we we like"
"OH Lord the Way you blessed King Sulaiman and make us capable of attaining the kind of Widsom"
"OH Lord Give Us Peace and get away from evil money which is monkey life makes peace shattered to pieces"
"OH Lord Give us fantastic food for our Mind to relish and make us tired by giving others"
"OH Lord make us never to save anything and shave off everything and live in abundence of our needs"
"OH Lord Give us Company of GOOD people with GODly feelings"
"OH Lord Never make us tired in remembering You"
"Oh Lord make us never forget you"
"OH Lord Satan is intelligent ...Protect us from Satan in every breathe".
"OH Make us to follow you and You alone and show us the right path"
"OH Lord Make us to Live with Human Beings "...
"OH Lord send us Rain whenever we wish"
"OH Lord forgive our sins and make us to feel when we overtake you and increase our wisdom so that we will cut away from sins"
"OH Lord give us clarity and increase our inner fear"
"OH lord make our life hidden enjoying all your blessings right from Flying in the sky with peace enjoy the delicious food and drinks and enjoy in the rains and live in the peace and resting and Make us to belive that you are enough"
"Oh lord All the Good is from You"
"Oh Lord make us fearless and worryless life"
"OH Lod Give fish, prawns, lobster etc from the sky I dont want ask from people"
"OH lord Give us fruits with ripeness and juice sprouting around"
"OH Make our Heart strong and never become week"
"OH lord protect us from Anger and make us to do good to parents"
"OH lord remove the bad thoughts"
"Oh Lord make my prayer evolve each day"
"Oh lord increase my capacity of understanding"
"Oh Lord make us to follow Ibrahim and Ayub while they fallen into disease"
"Oh Lord You said the disease is in the heart and not in the body... Make our heart pure"...
"OH Lord we should and honour respect and teach to to respect you and honour you"
"OH lord make us to live majestically and bless with wisdom in front of wordly filthy education which is behind money making"
"OH Lord you dont ask anything and give us everyting and teach us how to lead a hidden life"
"Oh Lord teach us how to live without proud and vanity and with vastness of wisdom"
"Oh Lord increase the production of fruits and we should not pay anything and let the Vendors run to hell ( I love mangoes...)"
"Oh Lord save us from fire"
"OH lord make us that we belong to you as You have created from nowhere...and make us to ive in water without breathe and you gave the first breate.. And make us thankful to you"...
Lord we love You... You are giving food... Today I bought tiger prawns and you created for me... Lord let everone who is afraid of you in this universe eat
fatastic food....Lord Make us to love u...
"Oh Lord make our life simpler, light and delightful"
"Oh lord make us to live as a sample to others so that we help others with ur command"
"Oh Lord make us to live with your satisfaction"
Love
Jango O0Jango My Salaams to you.
" Oh Our God, make us in company with the people of your wisdom and knowledge."
Jango, I am seeing my replica in you, in every soulful bit of your prayer! Allah joins the like minded people wherever they are placed. And Allah is so true to His Words! "Oh Allah make those who possess your wisdom and humble slaves of you inherit this world and the hereafter."
2 148 Everyone has his need; and each turn toward his respective direction; however, hasten yourself in the righteousness; and wherever you are placed, Allah will bring you all together. Verily, Allah has power over everything.
" Oh Our God! Help us and we put our Trust in You to enliven the following ayat."
3 28 Let not the believers take the rejecters for friends, but the believers like themselves; there is no help from Allah to such except those having done so out of fear for them; and Allah warns you of Himself. And your return is unto Him.
3 118 O Believers! Be careful as to not to make your dear ones those who are not of you; they will not spare you of anything bad for you; they love to see you in sorrow; their hatred for you is evident from their very mouths; and what is in their hearts is even greater; thus for sure, we have clarified our Signs ? if only you are men of understanding!
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This is the command
You exactly follow me in letter and spirit, without in between there being intervention/third party, Allah will love you people and for you He will overlook/forgive your wrong-doings". And Allah is The Forgiving/Overlooking, The Merciful.
Say ?If you wish Allah?s Grace, then follow me; Allah will be pleased with you; He will forgive your sins for you; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.?
The prophet had throughout has proclaimed, "My life is Quran! And do not write anything of me but Quran." But sadly enough most 'muslims' follow not the Quran, the hadith of Allah nor do they follow the prophet; but they only follow the conjectured hadiths of the mischief mongers, liars and hypocrites.
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This is the command
You exactly follow me in letter and spirit, without in between there being intervention/third party, Allah will love you people and for you He will overlook/forgive your wrong-doings". And Allah is The Forgiving/Overlooking, The Merciful.
Based on 2 143 which states "Thus, We made you a people fair and just; and in order that you might be a witness over the people and may the messenger be a witness over you;", Read 3 31 like this
You pronounce, "If you people love Allah, then follow me in letter and spirit, without in between there being intervention/third party, Allah will love you people and for you He will overlook/forgive your wrong-doings". And Allah is The Forgiving/Overlooking, The Merciful.
Or it simply goes like this
3 31
Say ?If you wish Allah?s Grace, then follow me; Allah will be pleased with you; He will forgive your sins for you; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.?.
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This is the command
You exactly follow me in letter and spirit, without in between there being intervention/third party, Allah will love you people and for you He will overlook/forgive your wrong-doings". And Allah is The Forgiving/Overlooking, The Merciful.
Based on 2 143 which states "Thus, We made you a people fair and just; and in order that you might be a witness over the people and may the messenger be a witness over you;", Read 3 31 like this
You pronounce, "If you people love Allah, then follow me in letter and spirit, without in between there being intervention/third party, Allah will love you people and for you He will overlook/forgive your wrong-doings". And Allah is The Forgiving/Overlooking, The Merciful.
Or it simply goes like this
3 31
Say ?If you wish Allah?s Grace, then follow me ; Allah will be pleased with you; He will forgive your sins for you; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.?.
Either we follow the words of Quran or we follow the point of view of some translator. Translation of "Qul" as simple "say" is not the meaning of it. Qul is imperative, second person. Someone is commanding someone to say a certain thing not to walls but to pronounce for certain group or for people. Its correct translation in 331 is
You Muhammad the Messenger pronounce for believers ,"...." -
Imagine means conjecturing a mental picture and taking it for granted without proof. Does Quran always endorse such way? And then ponder over the false views? In this way 2 187 is very clear to you. May Allah Bless.
Imagine
Definition To form in the mind a notion or idea of; to form a mental image of; to conceive; to produce by the imagination.Imagine means only that; whether it is false or true is to be determined; e.g. Einstein discovered emc^2 and relativity by imagining riding a light wave. Initially you imagined a metaphoric cover in 2187 (they are close, comforting, etc.) and falsely assumed/tied it to physical clothing, different word altogether in 2458.
Another logical view/analogy imagine a coin?IF stated tails THEN heads = FALSE
Imagine (i.e. view) ?permitted to you night of the fasting? as simply that.
http//s5.tinypic.com/nej31x.jpg
100% Quran logic, no sex permitted during the fasting, may the God bless and teach.
Peace
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ImagineDefinition To form in the mind a notion or idea of; to form a mental image of; to conceive; to produce by the imagination.
Imagine means only that; whether it is false or true is to be determined. Imagine (i.e. view) ?permitted to you night of the fasting? as simply that. 100% Quran logic, no sex permitted during the fasting, may the God bless and teach.Does it not mean then, a combination of false / true is confusion? And Quran endorses 100% such idea of imagining or fancying?
But to the contrary Allah says "Why then do you dispute about that of which you have no knowledge? And Allah knows while you do not know."e.g. Einstein discovered emc^2 and relativity by imagining riding a light wave.
Allah knows all the best ways and also the ways better than the existing ways; do you still hold on to the ways of Einstein and there are no further and easier and lovelier and nearer ways than that? Be a believer in such ways than the way of einstein.
Initially you imagined a metaphoric cover in 2187 (they are close, comforting, etc.) and falsely assumed/tied it to physical clothing, different word altogether in 2458.
Sorry! You will see it is the other way round if you care to read it again.
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Either we follow the words of Quran or we follow the point of view of some translator. Translation of "Qul" as simple "say" is not the meaning of it. Qul is imperative, second person. Someone is commanding someone to say a certain thing not to walls but to pronounce for certain group or for people.
Wherever "Qul" is pronounced, it commands the readers to stand by the verses of Quran and say to your people as your Messengers stood for Allah. To this all our Messengers will stand testimony for us. This is based on 2 143 which states "Thus, We made you a people fair and just; and in order that you might be a witness over the people and may the messenger be a witness over you" And also in 22 78 ...that the Messenger shall be a witness for you, and ye be witnesses for mankind!
Now please Read the ayat you have quoted
3 31
Say ?If you wish Allah?s Grace, then follow me YOU who read ]; Allah will be pleased with you; He will forgive your sins for you; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.?.
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Wherever "Qul" is pronounced, it commands the readers to stand by the verses of Quran and say to your people as your Messengers stood for Allah. To this all our Messengers will stand testimony for us. This is based on 2 143 which states "Thus, We made you a people fair and just; and in order that you might be a witness over the people and may the messenger be a witness over you" And also in 22 78 ...that the Messenger shall be a witness for you, and ye be witnesses for mankind!
Now please Read the ayat you have quoted
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Strange logic. Now you are reading it to me, should I follow you to get response from Allah of my loving Him? We are reading a book. Its words mean only what they say, not what we want to presume. We have to translate the words of the Book and not assign our ideas to the book. Qul is a word which nowhere in the world means to stand by the verses of Quran.
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Peace Dr. Fazl,
Among the three things 2 are being consumed internally i.e., eating and drinking. But the third one is expending the waste which will over flow if not voided like urine and motion; and that which shall soil you if not evacuated when necessary. Reconsider now and relearn the ayat afresh. Here is how best we shall understand by the leave of Allah without the taint of hadith or the practice in vogue
Here is the very beginning of the ayat! It is permitted to be with your wives on the nights of fasting. Where is the question for this at all when the fasting begins only from the dawn and ends at dusk? This part of the ayat has been necessitated from Allah because the mischief mongers like the mullah-hadith propagandists, swearing by the prophet, threateningly enforced the falsehood, in the name of the prophet, upon the people that they could not have the relationship with their wives. With the first part of the ayat the confusion created by the hadith miscreants of all times is put to end.
Now comes the second part of the ayat relating to the day time "They are your garments and you are their garments." Garments are mostly essential only during the day time. You as husband and wife have to don each other the clothing with purity, removing and eliminating the lewdness as and when necessary, especially during the days of fasting. Such is the holiness Allah attributes to the relationship between the wife and husband as purifying and lawful. Each shall protect each other's dignity by being lawful to each other that they be free from any lewdness in the heart during the fasting period and don on each other the garment of self-esteem and dignity. Allah loves such purity at heart free from all indecencies especially during the fasting. But herein again the hadith mischief-mongers obstructed the straight path to purity, allowing lewdness to creep into the heart through abstention; and make us spend the days of fasting with pent-up emotions! This is no fasting at all for reasons obvious. Now comes Allah's dissatisfaction and contempt for such followers and the warning from Him goes thus
Allah is Aware that you were deceiving yourselves in this respect and He has turned in mercy toward you and forgiven you. So hold intercourse with them and seek the purity that which Allah hath ordained for you.
After this the rest of the parts of the ayat goes about eating and drinking. Intercourse is entirely a different matter; it is not like eating and drinking; but removal of bad emotions like voiding of urine and evacuating the bowels to remove the impurities from our body. intercourse is elimination of the bad emotions and best protection for the mind whose purity is of at most important for the completion of fasting.
Finally comes the guidance when you shall not be with your wives. This is, when you vow and determinedly begin your ihram i.e., being in remembrance of Allah alone for a day or two or three, abstain from your emotions seeking protection from Allah all the while.
but do not associate with your wives while ye are in retreat in the mosques. Mosques are not the places where you have family relations; so here the mosques are your houses. Allah regards your houses to be the mosques because you are in constant remembrance of Allah's Names and no other names are entertained. At this juncture 2 114 shall be remembered "In places for the worship of Allah, Allah's name should be celebrated." Now the final part of the ayat Those are Limits by Allah Approach them not. Approach them not stands here solely on this ground; but you can eat and drink; thus it is not fasting here.
The end of the ayat Thus doth Allah make clear His Signs to men that they may fear!
Excellent point bravo bravo bravo
Worth serious research and consideration.
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DrFazl,
Thanks for Almighty for the clarity and wisdom Allah has given to you and I am with you and start implementing 2187 immediately.
Love
Jango O0Are you suggesting to start fasting in these days.
Allah is Aware that you were deceiving yourselves in this respect and He has turned in mercy toward you and forgiven you. So hold intercourse with them and seek the purity that which Allah hath ordained for you.
Good time to seek purity!!!!!