caliph umar converts dumping ground into a "holy" site
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belh-
grin
An illiterate has finally realized that torah must have been revealed before solomon was born, yet the rejector in him insists that his ill-fated temple whose original construction is attributed to solomon is the bayt built by abraham & ishmael. Need I say more? -)
Then, which is ur holy place, hebron or jerusalem?
ma'a salaam.
God bless all.
al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen
Why do I have to corner you like a rate; stick to the Question and respond
Hum...I see that you are out of answers...will...once you find a prove to support that Christians lived in Macca, please let me know so we can proceed;
the above is a very reasonable request...as you know 9-28 to 31 are very well-established verses that prove the Christians and Jews lived in the city where the Masjed Elharm exist.
Please do not let me chase you again...I'm too old for that )
samia-
Also, provide a verse from the quraan where "bayt", by itself, means household.
I have to say...I agree with you in this one handshake
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belh-the above is a very reasonable request...as you know 9-28 to 31 are very well-established verses that prove the Christians and Jews lived in the city where the Masjed Elharm exist.
Yet another sad lie....928 does not mention jews & christians.
928 O believers, the idolaters are indeed unclean; so let them not come near the Holy Mosque after this year of theirs. If you fear poverty, God shall surely enrich you of His bounty, if He will; God is All-knowing; All-wise.
How often do u want to be humiliated on account of ur lies? -)
-I'm too old for that
Even in ur old age u are earning nothing but humiliation; no wonder, u are all wrapped up in filth. A little literacy might have made a difference, but again, may be not, grin
Before u hide away, which location have u chosen for the bayt of ur god -- hebron or jerusalem? -)
ma'a salaam.
God bless all.
al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen
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belh-the above is a very reasonable request...as you know 9-28 to 31 are very well-established verses that prove the Christians and Jews lived in the city where the Masjed Elharm exist.
Yet another sad lie....928 does not mention jews & christians.
Calm Down rotfl
As I said, I will repeat again, 9-28 through 31 prove prove the Christians and Jews lived in the city where the Masjed Elharm exist.
Now take a deep breath and answer?
Another reminder, please do not let me chase you around... yes...Old Man.
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belh-As I said, I will repeat again, 9-28 through 31 prove prove the Christians and Jews lived in the city where the Masjed Elharm exist.
Don't let old age be an excuse for ur illiteracy. The verse clearly mentions "idolators," & a clearl distinction is made between pagans & jews-christians. -)
98 1 Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, were not going to depart (from their ways) until there should come to them Clear Evidence,
The verse makes it clear that the pagans had interest in almasjid alharaam. I think u are confused because u don't know where a grave-worshipper will fit in, innit. Let me help u -- ur qiblaa is at jerusalem, which the muslims have been forbidden. -)
& why is the old illiterate still not letting me know whether it is hebron or jerusalem for him? Why do u follow that which makes u so embarrassed? -)
ma'a salaam.
God bless all.
al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen
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belh-As I said, I will repeat again, 9-28 through 31 prove prove the Christians and Jews lived in the city where the Masjed Elharm exist.
Don't let old age be an excuse for ur illiteracy. The verse clearly mentions "idolators," & a clearl distinction is made between pagans & jews-christians. -)
Moshrkeen are the People of the Book who associate to God what He has never authorized (e.g., Suni, Shia, Christians, Jews)...
Now, if you complete reading 9-29, 30, and 31 you will note who are those Moshrkeen whom the Prophet had to fight against while conquering The City where the Masjed Elharm Exist.Ok...I see that you are concurring that Christians and Jews did not Live in Mecca...Thank You handshake
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belh-Moshrkeen are the People of the Book who associate to God what He has never authorized (e.g., Suni, Shia, Christians, Jews)...
Mushrikeen are clearly differentiate from ahl alkitaab, as proven by 981. Now don't run away again.
-Now, if you complete reading 9-29, 30, and 31 you will note who are those Moshrkeen whom the Prophet had to fight against while conquering The City where the Masjed Elharm Exist.
Fittingly, the next verse talks about ahl alkitaab; a clear distinction again. As v know, the jews turn towards the temple of jerusalem, a qiblaa forbidden to muslims.
That helps -- If u turn towards jerusalem, u are a jew; if towards hebron, u are from an unidentified cult. Say, "thank you". -)
-Ok...I see that you are concurring that Christians and Jews did not Live in Mecca...Thank You
Thanks for strengthening the argument that the jews & christians had rejected the kaaba; 928, coupled with 2145, provides further clarification of 387. No wonder u turn towards jerusalem in keeping with 2145. Despite ur emotional fervor & sprints, u have come up with a good argument against urself. grin
Maybe being emotional & running away is not so bad for u; but take precautions, given ur age -)
ma'a salaam.
God bless all.
al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen
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belh-Moshrkeen are the People of the Book who associate to God what He has never authorized (e.g., Suni, Shia, Christians, Jews)...
Mushrikeen are clearly differentiate from ahl alkitaab, as proven by 981. Now don't run away again.
Wrong
The Jews said ?Ezra is God?s son,? and the Nazarenes said ?The Messiah is God?s son.? Such is their utterances with their mouths, they imitate the sayings of those who rejected before them. God will fight them. They are deluded from the truth!
930They took their Priests and Monks to be patrons besides God, and the Messiah son of Mary, while they were only commanded to serve One god, there is no god but He, be He glorified for what they associate.
931These are the Moshreen of Ahel Elketab...moreover, they had to pay the Taxes to the Prophet (the Jezia);
Fittingly, the next verse talks about ahl alkitaab; a clear distinction again. As v know, the jews turn towards the temple of jerusalem, a qiblaa forbidden to muslims.
That helps -- If u turn towards jerusalem, u are a jew; if towards hebron, u are from an unidentified cult. Say, "thank you". -)
The only Qiblaa is the Qiblaa toward Masjed El-Haram, which the Christians and Jews KNOW IS TRUE...
We see the shifting of your face towards the sky; We will thus set for you a focal point that will be pleasing to you ?You shall set yourself towards the Sacred Temple; and wherever you may be, you shall all set yourselves towards it.? Those who have been given the Scripture know it is the truth from their Lord. And God is not unaware of what you do.
2144According to the Above, the only Focal Point that the Jews and the Christians know is Truth from their Lord is the Masjed Where Makam Abraham exist in Jerusalem...as I said unless you prove from the Injeel and Torah that Mecca is Mentioned, then you are wasting my time.
-Ok...I see that you are concurring that Christians and Jews did not Live in Mecca...Thank You
Thanks for strengthening the argument that the jews & christians had rejected the kaaba; 928, coupled with 2145, provides further clarification of 387. No wonder u turn towards jerusalem in keeping with 2145. Despite ur emotional fervor & sprints, u have come up with a good argument against urself. grin
So...are you saying that Jesus, Moses, David, Solomon had rejected the Kaaba as well?
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belh-These are the Moshreen of Ahel Elketab...moreover, they had to pay the Taxes to the Prophet (the Jezia);
- Please don't manipulate the quraan; it is clear that the pagans & jews-christians are addressed differently. The quraan may not be sufficient for u, but for me it is. -)
...as I said unless you prove from the Injeel and Torah that Mecca is Mentioned, then you are wasting my time.
- Amazing; it is the testaments of jews & christians that u turn to, rather than the quraan. Even ur own arguments are not good enough for u now.
The "holy" temple of solomon does not exist in the quraan (nor in pentateuch, & how can it?); while the bayt of abraham & ishmael does not exist in the testaments. & u prefer to go after what is not in the quraan.
Let me be very clear; I don't believe in ur books which say that the prophets were idolators, & I am not admitting ur books as any evidence whasoever. If u have anything from the quraan, bring it forth.
-So...are you saying that Jesus, Moses, David, Solomon had rejected the Kaaba as well?
- Are u saying that these prophets were jews?
2141 Or do you say, "Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac and Jacob, and the Tribes -- they were Jews, or they were Christians"?' Say 'Have you then greater knowledge, or God? And who does greater evil than he who conceals a testimony received from God? And God is not heedless of the things you do.'
ma'a salaam.
God bless all.
al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen
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I will comment on the following
- Amazing; it is the testaments of jews & christians that u turn to, rather than the quraan. Even ur own arguments are not good enough for u now.
The Quran state the following about the Masjed Elharm
Mqam Abraham is its Landmark (not in Macca but in Jerusalem)
The Masjed Exist in BAKAH (Jerusalem and not Macca)Therefore, it confirms what are in Torah and Injeel---Jerusalem and not Macca
The "holy" temple of solomon does not exist in the quraan (nor in pentateuch, & how can it?); while the bayt of abraham & ishmael does not exist in the testaments. & u prefer to go after what is not in the quraan.
And that is why the Focal Point (Qiblah) of Jews (the Temple of Solomon), is different from ours (The Masjed were the Tomb of Prophet Abraham (Maqam) and his wife Sarah exist, right in front of the Dom of The Rock.
-So...are you saying that Jesus, Moses, David, Solomon had rejected the Kaaba as well?
- Are u saying that these prophets were jews?
Good Point...Therefore, these prophets have preached their Message where the Masjed Elharm exist, as the Prophet Mohamed did and Prophet Abraham...after all, all are moslems.
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belh-The Quran state the following about the Masjed Elharm
Mqam Abraham is its Landmark (not in Macca but in Jerusalem)
The Masjed Exist in BAKAH (Jerusalem and not Macca)Therefore, it confirms what are in Torah and Injeel---Jerusalem and not Macca
And that is why the Focal Point (Qiblah) of Jews (the Temple of Solomon), is different from ours (The Masjed were the Tomb of Prophet Abraham (Maqam) and his wife Sarah exist, right in front of the Dom of The Rock.
- I have said this many times before -- the tombs which u believe to be that of abraham & sarah are in hebron; the dome of rock is in jerusalem. & both are already revered by rejectors & sectarians, alike.
ma'a salaam.
God bless all.
al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen
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2-196 shows otherwise...It shows that Hajj "Pilgrim" is to a Physical Place
Yes, hajj is to a physical place. Places have concepts a safe place, a dangerous place, a place that upholds law, a place where no law is respected...So, where do you think ALL people will be invited so that they can remember God and enjoy His mercy? Not a place with a building, but a place that uphold God's laws and only God's laws. Your correct opinion about the Saudi family is an indicatore of your understanding of this. This means any corrupt leader/s can have control over God's "house", israeli government included. And this implies that no hajj will ever be performed, whether be it to Saudi Arabia or to Israel.
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1793 or thou have a house of gold; or thou ascend by a ladder to heaven Neither will we believe thy ascending thither alone, until thou cause a book to descend unto us, bearing witness of thee, which we may read. Answer, my Lord be praised! Am I other than a man, sent as an Apostle?
What does this show? That this house is where they are living? Is it forbidden to have a beautifully decorated/adorned house? No, becuase this e is not just an adorned "house, but because it is a "bayt" that is concerned only with glittering appearance and no substance. So it's not just the house walls, but the superficiality of their whole life.
Here's another "house" of silver and gold
4333-35 And were it not that mankind would become of one community, We would have provided for those who disbelive in the Most Gracious silver roofs for their houses and elevators whereby they ascend. And for their houses doors and thrones on which they would recline. And adornment of Gold.....
Do these verses, the one you posted included, tell us that having expensive, beautifully decorated houses, elevators and even couches are signs of disbelieve? Isn't this superficial understanding is what makes many muslims believe that poverty is virtue?
This "golden" house is no different from this "golden" speech 6112 "And so We have appointed for every prophet enemies among man kind and "jinn" inspiring one another with adorned speech". How can a speech be of gold if it's not physical?
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samia-What does this show?
That this house is where they are living? Is it forbidden to have a beautifully decorated/adorned house? No, becuase this e is not just an adorned "house, but because it is a "bayt" that is concerned only with glittering appearance and no substance. So it's not just the house walls, but the superficiality of their whole life.
- Nowhere does it suggest it is where "they" are living; don't add words to the text of the quraan. The rest of ur speech is the result of ur appending the text, & is disregarded.
The disbelievers wanted the prophet to show that he was more than a mere mortal (1794), & asked him to do something extraordinary (1790-93), failing which they would stick to their "inventions"
1790 TThey say, 'We will not believe thee till thou makest a spring to gush forth from the earth for us,
1791 or till thou possessest a garden of plants and vines, and thou makest rivers to gush forth abundantly all amongst it,
1792 or till thou makest heaven to fall, as thou assertest, on us in fragments, or thou bringest God and the angels as a surety,
1793 "Or thou have a house adorned with gold, or thou mount a ladder right into the skies. No, we shall not even believe in thy mounting until thou send down to us a book that we could read." Say "Glory to my Lord! Am I aught but a man,- a messenger?"
1794 And naught prevented men from believing when the guidance came to them, but that they said, 'Has God sent forth a mortal as Messenger?'
The remainder of ur post is equally irrelevant.
Applying ur proposed "bayt is family" translation to 396-97
396 The first family established for the people is the one in Bakk'a, blessed, and a guidance for the worlds.
397 Therein are clear signs -- the station of Abraham, and whosoever enters it is in security. It is the duty of all men towards God to come to the Family a pilgrim, if he is able to make his way there. As for the unbeliever, God is All-sufficient nor needs any being.
& u are yet to bring verses & literature to backup ur inventions that "bayt can't be empty," & that bayt is either "concept" or "family".
ma'a salaam.
God bless all.
al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'alaameen
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samia-What does this show?
That this house is where they are living? Is it forbidden to have a beautifully decorated/adorned house? No, becuase this e is not just an adorned "house, but because it is a "bayt" that is concerned only with glittering appearance and no substance. So it's not just the house walls, but the superficiality of their whole life.
- Nowhere does it suggest it is where "they" are living; don't add words to the text of the quraan. The rest of ur speech is the result of ur appending the text, & is disregarded.
If you cannot read my post, no wonder you cannot understand the quraan. There's a question mark after my first sentence. I am wondering if this is what you meant a physical house. Truly, it's (for people who reason).
The disbelievers wanted the prophet to show that he was more than a mere mortal (1794), & asked him to do something extraordinary (1790-93), failing which they would stick to their "inventions"
So you know they want him to show them he is immortal, extra-ordinary? What's immortal and extra ordinary about having a well decorated/ordained house?
The remainder of ur post is equally irrelevant.
I am not suprised. You stick to the traditional interpretation without thinking or trying to see how the qur'aan uses a specific term or expression. And that's what I was trying to show you.
Applying ur proposed "bayt is family" translation to 396-97
& u are yet to bring verses & literature to backup ur inventions that "bayt can't be empty," & that bayt is either "concept" or "family".
And where did I propose "bayt is family"? You accuse others of inventions and you are the one who adds words to my post.
And why do you stick to family and reject concept? Try to apply a "concept" to these verses. -
samia-If you cannot read my post, no wonder you cannot understand the quraan. There's a question mark after my first sentence. I am wondering if this is what you meant a physical house. Truly, it's (for people who reason).
- Stop dancing; u asked for a verse wherein "bayt" denotes a physical place, & that is what 1793 does.
So you know they want him to show them he is immortal, extra-ordinary? What's immortal and extra ordinary about having a well decorated/ordained house?
- Inventer at work again. Extraordinary is not immortal.
It is not just a house of gold that the verse talks about. If it's comprehension problem, please learn to read rather than arguing pointlessly
1790 They say, 'We will not believe thee till thou makest a spring to gush forth from the earth for us,
1791 or till thou possessest a garden of plants and vines, and thou makest rivers to gush forth abundantly all amongst it,
1792 or till thou makest heaven to fall, as thou assertest, on us in fragments, or thou bringest God and the angels as a surety,
1793 "Or thou have a house adorned with gold, or thou mount a ladder right into the skies. No, we shall not even believe in thy mounting until thou send down to us a book that we could read." Say "Glory to my Lord! Am I aught but a man,- a messenger?"
I am assuming u can read english with fair comfort. It is quite clear that he considered "making heaven to fall," "springs to gush forth from earth," "owning a house made from gold," & "bringing God & the angels as surety" beyond ordinary effort, & he was a mortal who could not meet their demands on his own.
I am not suprised. You stick to the traditional interpretation without thinking or trying to see how the qur'aan uses a specific term or expression. And that's what I was trying to show you.
- All u have shown is that u cannot read. Read the verse 1790-94 again, as they are.
And where did I propose "bayt is family"? You accuse others of inventions and you are the one who adds words to my post.
- Family can be swapped with household; I didn't know u would be caught unaware.
Let us apply "household"
396 The first household established for the people is the one in Bakk'a, blessed, and a guidance for the worlds.
397 Therein are clear signs -- the station of Abraham, and whosoever enters it is in security. It is the duty of all men towards God to come to the Household a pilgrim, if he is able to make his way there. As for the unbeliever, God is All-sufficient nor needs any being.
Now stop making empty claims, & provide some reference for ur invention that "bayt can't be empty". Not that "concept" makes more sense, but words cannot be invented on the whims & fancy of any & every nobody; the meanings "house" & "household" are established, provide some reference for bayt = concept.
ma'a salaam.
God bless all.
al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen
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After checking the usage in the quraan, let us now consider other evidences
Nonetheless, it seems difficult to set aside the long-established view that Greek words using the root betyl or baityl reflect variant transliterations of the Semitic-language term bethel (BTL), meaning house of El (god). This conception in itself gains some force from the fact that the term seems now to be attested on an Aramaic inscription from the Roman Imperial period, found at the village of El-Mal in southern Syria, some 40 km south-west of Damascus. The inscription, which dates from 716 ac, seems to record that someone built a house of god (BNH BYT LH), that is, a temple.
ma'a salaam.
God bless all.
al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen
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Nonetheless, it seems difficult to set aside the long-established view that Greek words using the root betyl or baityl reflect variant transliterations of the Semitic-language term bethel (BTL), meaning house of El (god). This conception in itself gains some force from the fact that the term seems now to be attested on an Aramaic inscription from the Roman Imperial period, found at the village of El-Mal in southern Syria, some 40 km south-west of Damascus. The inscription, which dates from 7/6 bc, seems to record that someone built a house of god (BNH BYT LH), that is, a temple. Though there were Jewish settlements in this region, bordering on Gaulanitis (the Golan Heights), the context is surely pagan. However, it is clear that what is referred to here is not a betyl as understood by Philo, and taken as a general conception by moderns, that is, a stone housing a divine spirit, but a building, no doubt one of those small rural sanctuaries so well attested over large parts of the Near East.
For the above, please refer to "The Roman Near East, 31 B.C.-A.D. 337" by millar; p 14.
ma'a salaam.
God bless all.
al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen