caliph umar converts dumping ground into a "holy" site
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samia-Answer my first question Who are in 3333?
- Read one of my earlier posts, I already gave an answer.
Let me say it again they are the "ahl" associated with the bayt, the way ahl alkitaab are the "ahl" associated with the kitaab. If u have ur own answer, please put it in words.
Which bayt and how are they associated with it?
-but here is a verse 2429
The fact that an uninhabited place has been called "bayt" is proof in itself against ur conjecture that an uninhabited place cannot be called "bayt".
How do "bayt" and "uninhabited bayt" give the same meaning?
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samia-
Don't start dancing again. It was ur entreaty that u be shown a verse where bayt is physical I responded to ur plea, & also provided other evidence. Provide similar evidence that it cannot be a physical place, or admit that u made yet another mistake.
ma'a salaam.
God bless all.
al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen
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samia-
Don't start dancing again. It was ur entreaty that u be shown a verse where bayt is physical I responded to ur plea, & also provided other evidence. Provide similar evidence that it cannot be a physical place, or admit that u made yet another mistake.
ma'a salaam.
God bless all.
al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen
You rephrased (people of the house people associated with the house) but my question was what is the meaning of ahl albayt.
And I did not say it cannot be a physical place.
And stop being rude. -
samia-And I did not say it cannot be a physical place.
samia-Show me "bayt" in the quraan not referring to household when physical.
Read that. Now admit a third mistake -- that u made a claim, & then pretended to have never made that claim.
ma'a salaam.
God bless all.
al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen
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samia-And I did not say it cannot be a physical place.
samia-Show me "bayt" in the quraan not referring to household when physical.
Read that. Now admit a third mistake -- that u made a claim, & then pretended to have never made that claim.
This line (underlined) does not mean bayt cannot be a physical place
Moreover, this is my first post regarding this topicThere's no "house". A house is a physical structure that can be empty (like the black room in Makkah), but a "bayt" can't be empty, and is not necessarily a physical structure, otherwise, how many rooms are there in the bayt of "al albayt"? So, no physical place either. The "bayt" of God is the main concept of His system and his whereabouts is where there's "no shirk" (6151-153).
Now, are you telling me that (is not necessarily a physical structure) has the same meaning as (cannot be a physical place)?
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samia-This line (underlined) does not mean bayt cannot be a physical place
- What does it mean? That u were unsure about its application in the quraan? & If u knew, like u seem to imply from ur quote, why did u ask for a verse to prove it?
-Now, are you telling me that (is not necessarily a physical structure) has the same meaning as (cannot be a physical place)?
- I considered it, & found ur statement (to be) ambiguous, which is why I waited till u came up with "Show me "bayt" in the quraan not referring to household when physical."
ma'a salaam.
God bless all.
al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen
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belh-
Moses existed before solomon & the temple of jerusalem.
The jews consider the rock in the temple their focal point. How many times should it be said that temple/rock is in jerusalem, while those tombs which u talk about are in hebron? Please read my last post regarding the tombs & the rock, & clarify whether it is hebron or jerusalem that u take as ur focal point.
ma'a salaam.
God bless all.
al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen
thegod, I know that Moses came before David.
My Question is, if these Prophets and Messengers (Moses, Jesus, David, Salomon, Yahia, Zakria) are moslems (as you said and I agreed), why did they Choose a Focal Point that is not Mecca?
The point about hebron and Jerusalem will be dealt with after we finish with the above point. -
belh-
Then u would know that the temple of solomon did not exist until moses. Then the temple of jews could not have been his focal point; do u agree?
ma'a salaam.
God bless all.
al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen
as I told you before, the Temple of David has nothing to do with the Focal Point...even David Himself did not take his temple as a Focal Point, after all He was a True moslem.
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belh-the Temple of David has nothing to do with the Focal Point...even David Himself did not take his temple as a Focal Point, after all He was a True moslem.
I am not aware of a temple built by david even in the bible.
ma'a salaam.
God bless all.
al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen
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thegod - Then u would know that the temple of solomon did not exist until moses. Then the temple of jews could not have been his focal point; do u agree?
The above should read
Then u would know that the temple of solomon did not exist at the time of moses. Then the temple of jews could not have been his focal point; do u agree?
al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen
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belh-the Temple of David has nothing to do with the Focal Point...even David Himself did not take his temple as a Focal Point, after all He was a True moslem.
I am not aware of a temple built by david even in the bible.
thegod, can you answer my main question
My Question is, if these Prophets and Messengers (Moses, Jesus, David, Salomon, Yahia, Zakria) are moslems (as you said and I agreed), why did they Choose a Focal Point that is not Mecca?
The point about hebron and Jerusalem will be dealt with after we finish with the above point. -
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belh-the temple of David is the same as the Massged Elnabowy (prophet Mohamed Mosque) in Madina, or the Church of Nativity in Bayt Laham, which none is the Focal point.
I don't know what that means, but I guess it means u admit that jerusalem, in which stands the temple (in which stands the rock), is the focal point of jews & not muslims; so that rules out jerusalem.
For the quraanic answer for moses' focal point, refer to 1087.
ma'a salaam.
God bless all.
al'hamd li Alaah Rabb al'aalameen
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I don't know what that means, but I guess it means u admit that jerusalem, in which stands the temple (in which stands the rock), is the focal point of jews & not muslims; so that rules out jerusalem.
thegod, from where did you infer that I said so?
Moreover, 1087 shows the focal point of Moses before leaving Egypt to their Main Focal Point---Jerusalem.
either way, Mecca is not in the picture for Moses, according to Quran; and if Moses was a true moslem, as you said and I agreed, then why He did not Choose Mecca instead or why God did not order him to migrate to Mecca instead of Jerusalem?In the Case of David and Solomon, why did David and Solomon choose Jerusalem instead of Mecca to be the place of their Teaching and Worshiping if they were true moslems as you said and I agreed?
In the case of Jesus, why did he choose Jerusalem, as David and Solomon did, and not Mecca if He was a true moslem?
And the main question, why all the above true moslems did not even pay one visit to Mecca?
thegod, the above is the main reason that made me change my believe about Mecca...it is not about you or about anyone wining the debate, it is about the Truth that I and all other believers are seeking...unless you can prove to us that these prophets have visited Mecca, at least one time, then we should stop debating this and let God take care of the ones who are trying to mislead others.
May God forgive us for our mistakes and Unintentional Sins.
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The answer is clear There are MANY focal point / meeting place for holding a 'thanks giving event' to God.
And it differs among culture!!Explanation Read Al-Hajj (The Festival)67
The arabs had their custom on circling a black stone in the middle of the desert..
Muhammad just changes the 'meanings' of their customs,Muhammad "My dear arab friends; you can continue with your annual custom here, but no more silly idol please.."
The jews had a custom of gathering a thanks giving festival in Jerusalem.
The Eskimos had their own custom in some place within the arctic..
So does the Indians, the Chinese, the Japanese.. etc....But, interesting enough; every culture had their own habits of annual festival of thanks giving.. although the time and place might vary.. (and it doesn't really matter much).
Salam / Peace