caliph umar converts dumping ground into a "holy" site
-
Nonetheless, it seems difficult to set aside the long-established view that Greek words using the root betyl or baityl reflect variant transliterations of the Semitic-language term bethel (BTL), meaning house of El (god). This conception in itself gains some force from the fact that the term seems now to be attested on an Aramaic inscription from the Roman Imperial period, found at the village of El-Mal in southern Syria, some 40 km south-west of Damascus. The inscription, which dates from 7/6 bc, seems to record that someone built a house of god (BNH BYT LH), that is, a temple. Though there were Jewish settlements in this region, bordering on Gaulanitis (the Golan Heights), the context is surely pagan. However, it is clear that what is referred to here is not a betyl as understood by Philo, and taken as a general conception by moderns, that is, a stone housing a divine spirit, but a building, no doubt one of those small rural sanctuaries so well attested over large parts of the Near East.
For the above, please refer to "The Roman Near East, 31 B.C.-A.D. 337" by millar; p 14.
ma'a salaam.
God bless all.
al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen
-
For the above, please refer to "The Roman Near East, 31 B.C.-A.D. 337" by millar; p 14.
ma'a salaam.
God bless all.
al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen
thegod, I would appreciate it if you comment in my last post, especially about Moses, Jesus, David, Salomon's Focal Point...is it Mecca or Jerusalem?
-
belh-
Moses existed before solomon & the temple of jerusalem.
The jews consider the rock in the temple their focal point. How many times should it be said that temple/rock is in jerusalem, while those tombs which u talk about are in hebron? Please read my last post regarding the tombs & the rock, & clarify whether it is hebron or jerusalem that u take as ur focal point.
ma'a salaam.
God bless all.
al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen
-
- Family can be swapped with household; I didn't know u would be caught unaware.
Answer my first question Who are in 3333?
Now stop making empty claims, & provide some reference for ur invention that "bayt can't be empty". Not that "concept" makes more sense, but words cannot be invented on the whims & fancy of any & every nobody; the meanings "house" & "household" are established, provide some reference for bayt = concept.
Although it's illogical to ask someone to prove a negative, but here is a verse 2429 There's no sin on you to enter uninhabited houses ...
The underlined expression shows that otherwise bayt(s) is necessarily inhabited unless otherwise stated.
As for the house of God (2125; 2226) He asks that it has to be purified for the . Where ? Is it still empty? Where are the going to do this "i3tikaf"?And please be decent in your language. Stick to the topic and do not take it to a personal level.
-
samia-Answer my first question Who are in 3333?
- Read one of my earlier posts, I already gave an answer.
Let me say it again they are the "ahl" associated with the bayt, the way ahl alkitaab are the "ahl" associated with the kitaab. If u have ur own answer, please put it in words.
-but here is a verse 2429
2429 An offense/guilt/sin is not on you that you enter houses/homes not resided in/inhabited, in it (is) enjoyment for you, and God knows what you show, and what you hide/conceal.
The fact that an uninhabited place has been called "bayt" is proof in itself against ur conjecture that an uninhabited place cannot be called "bayt".
For those comfortable with english, the word "house" denotes a place of habitation, & an uninhabited house is still called a house.
-And please be decent in your language. Stick to the topic and do not take it to a personal level.
- Don't be presumptuous, u are not exempted from observing decency
samia-If you cannot read my post, no wonder you cannot understand the quraan.
The "topic" was umar converting a dumping ground into a holy city.
Let us recap
-
I have shown using quraan & inscriptional evidence that bayt is a physical place.
-
& u have shown using the quraan that an uninhabited place is called bayt.
A remark -- u have not been able to provide any evidence in support of ur conjectures.
ma'a salaam.
God bless all.
al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'alaameen
-
I think the issue of Jerusalem is clear in the Koran. It refers to it as the holy land or the blessed land. So I believe the verse about Isra and Mi'raj is talking Jerusalem and the Temple of David and Solomon. Since it says that We have blessed. I am not sure the Koran uses that reference to anyother area. I think it uses Haram for Mecca.
But,
Whether that is the same spot as the Aqsa we have today is not clear and I would be skeptical. There was huge politics during the Ummayids.
-
samia-Answer my first question Who are in 3333?
- Read one of my earlier posts, I already gave an answer.
Let me say it again they are the "ahl" associated with the bayt, the way ahl alkitaab are the "ahl" associated with the kitaab. If u have ur own answer, please put it in words.
Which bayt and how are they associated with it?
-but here is a verse 2429
The fact that an uninhabited place has been called "bayt" is proof in itself against ur conjecture that an uninhabited place cannot be called "bayt".
How do "bayt" and "uninhabited bayt" give the same meaning?
-
samia-
Don't start dancing again. It was ur entreaty that u be shown a verse where bayt is physical I responded to ur plea, & also provided other evidence. Provide similar evidence that it cannot be a physical place, or admit that u made yet another mistake.
ma'a salaam.
God bless all.
al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen
-
samia-
Don't start dancing again. It was ur entreaty that u be shown a verse where bayt is physical I responded to ur plea, & also provided other evidence. Provide similar evidence that it cannot be a physical place, or admit that u made yet another mistake.
ma'a salaam.
God bless all.
al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen
You rephrased (people of the house people associated with the house) but my question was what is the meaning of ahl albayt.
And I did not say it cannot be a physical place.
And stop being rude. -
samia-And I did not say it cannot be a physical place.
samia-Show me "bayt" in the quraan not referring to household when physical.
Read that. Now admit a third mistake -- that u made a claim, & then pretended to have never made that claim.
ma'a salaam.
God bless all.
al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen
-
samia-And I did not say it cannot be a physical place.
samia-Show me "bayt" in the quraan not referring to household when physical.
Read that. Now admit a third mistake -- that u made a claim, & then pretended to have never made that claim.
This line (underlined) does not mean bayt cannot be a physical place
Moreover, this is my first post regarding this topicThere's no "house". A house is a physical structure that can be empty (like the black room in Makkah), but a "bayt" can't be empty, and is not necessarily a physical structure, otherwise, how many rooms are there in the bayt of "al albayt"? So, no physical place either. The "bayt" of God is the main concept of His system and his whereabouts is where there's "no shirk" (6151-153).
Now, are you telling me that (is not necessarily a physical structure) has the same meaning as (cannot be a physical place)?
-
samia-This line (underlined) does not mean bayt cannot be a physical place
- What does it mean? That u were unsure about its application in the quraan? & If u knew, like u seem to imply from ur quote, why did u ask for a verse to prove it?
-Now, are you telling me that (is not necessarily a physical structure) has the same meaning as (cannot be a physical place)?
- I considered it, & found ur statement (to be) ambiguous, which is why I waited till u came up with "Show me "bayt" in the quraan not referring to household when physical."
ma'a salaam.
God bless all.
al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen
-
belh-
Moses existed before solomon & the temple of jerusalem.
The jews consider the rock in the temple their focal point. How many times should it be said that temple/rock is in jerusalem, while those tombs which u talk about are in hebron? Please read my last post regarding the tombs & the rock, & clarify whether it is hebron or jerusalem that u take as ur focal point.
ma'a salaam.
God bless all.
al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen
thegod, I know that Moses came before David.
My Question is, if these Prophets and Messengers (Moses, Jesus, David, Salomon, Yahia, Zakria) are moslems (as you said and I agreed), why did they Choose a Focal Point that is not Mecca?
The point about hebron and Jerusalem will be dealt with after we finish with the above point. -
belh-
Then u would know that the temple of solomon did not exist until moses. Then the temple of jews could not have been his focal point; do u agree?
ma'a salaam.
God bless all.
al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen
as I told you before, the Temple of David has nothing to do with the Focal Point...even David Himself did not take his temple as a Focal Point, after all He was a True moslem.
-
belh-the Temple of David has nothing to do with the Focal Point...even David Himself did not take his temple as a Focal Point, after all He was a True moslem.
I am not aware of a temple built by david even in the bible.
ma'a salaam.
God bless all.
al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen
-
thegod - Then u would know that the temple of solomon did not exist until moses. Then the temple of jews could not have been his focal point; do u agree?
The above should read
Then u would know that the temple of solomon did not exist at the time of moses. Then the temple of jews could not have been his focal point; do u agree?
al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen
-
belh-the Temple of David has nothing to do with the Focal Point...even David Himself did not take his temple as a Focal Point, after all He was a True moslem.
I am not aware of a temple built by david even in the bible.
thegod, can you answer my main question
My Question is, if these Prophets and Messengers (Moses, Jesus, David, Salomon, Yahia, Zakria) are moslems (as you said and I agreed), why did they Choose a Focal Point that is not Mecca?
The point about hebron and Jerusalem will be dealt with after we finish with the above point.