How many verses are there in the quran ?
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Peace jonny,
JK- So now you rely on memorization? So say if tomorrow people accepting Quran Alone will start memorizing the Quran without 9128&129? What would you say then? OR say tomoroow some people also accepting only Quran would memorize the Quran with an additional verse appended to sura fatiha which doesnt contradict the rest of the Quranic verses either? Would you accept it as Quran? If you dont then how come your accepting the memorization of hadith followers as Quran? Doesnt that make you a hypocrite trusting those people more about what the Quran is than those who strive to follow Quran Alone?
Those who remove verses are known liars same as the missionaries and heretics who spread lies about God and Quran ? they will be punished in this world and the next.
5417 And We have made the Quran flexible to the remembrance, so is there from a rememberer?
JK- YES THERE IS A PROBLEM. LOOK IT UP. WARAEE DOES NOT HAVE TWO YAS. HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TELL YOU THAT?
This was not on your list which you said is the same as mine!
195
What?s the count again 343?
JK- islamicity CLEARLY shows a wave before HA in fanadaaha upon which theres a small standing alif. DONT U SEE IT? That is a YA. http//www.islamicity.com/mosque/arabicscript/Ayat/19/19_24.gif.
No I do not see it in that picture, here http//www.islamicity.com/QuranSearch/
Verse Search
Search By Verse RefNoble Quran
IslamiCity
Displaying Verse 1 through 1 of 1 Verse(s) found. ( 1 Verse(s) displayed). Back - Print This Page
YOU MAY LISTEN TO THE VERSES DISPLAYED ON THIS PAGE
BY CLICKING ON THE RECITING OPTIONS BELOW.
RECITING OPTIONS
Search For 1924 - -
(1924)
Baset - Hussari - Minshawi
Fanadaha min tahtiha alla tahzanee qad jaAAala rabbuki tahtaki sariyyanTopics discussed in this Verse
1924 (Asad) Thereupon called out to her from beneath that "Grieve not! Thy Sustainer has provided a rivulet beneath thee;
SEE YA!?
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Peace "eid",
Peace jonny,
Those who remove verses are known liars same as the missionaries and heretics who spread lies about God and Quran ? they will be punished in this world and the next.
5417 And We have made the Quran flexible to the remembrance, so is there from a rememberer?
JK- Known by WHOM? Sunni/shia? Dont compare those who accept Quran Alone with Christian missionaries now. Once again you didnt answe my questions. HOW do you determine which is the true Quran? Do you do this based on what the MAJORITY say? If so your going against the Quran itself
12106 The majority of those who believe in GOD do not do so without committing idol worship.This was not on your list which you said is the same as mine!
195
What?s the count again 343?
JK- AGAIN your showing waraai with TWO YAS. Your using a persian quranic script. Openburhan IS PERSIAN SCRIPT. YOU CAN SEE THIS BY LOOKING AT HOW THEY SPELL THE WORD "SALAT". Salat should be spelled "sad lam WAW ha" as in the original NOT "sad lam alif ha". See for example
http//www.islamicity.com/mosque/arabicscript/Ayat/2/2_3.htm
ALL other sites you quoted except islamicity have the same problem.No I do not see it in that picture, here http//www.islamicity.com/QuranSearch/
Verse Search
Search By Verse RefSEE YA!?
JK- MAN I QUOTED THE VERSE RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU. HERE
http//www.islamicity.com/mosque/arabicscript/Ayat/19/19_24.gif
DO YOU SEE THE WAVE BEFORE THE "HA" IN NADAAHA? The small alif on top is a VOWEL MARK NOT A REAL LETTER ALIF JUST LIKE THE ONE IN RAHMAN ABOVE THE MEEM. GOD Bless! -
Peace again "Eid",
The verse reference serach at islamicity you showed me also has the same problem. Just look at how they spell "rahmat" in 192
http//www.islamicity.com/QuranSearch/
(192
http//www.islamicity.com/mosque/arabicscript/Ayat/19/19_2.gif
They spell it "ra ha meem HA" isntead of "ra ha meem ta" as THE VERY SAME ONE THEY HAVE on the image script of the Quran. The latter image is correct. Look at that only. GOD Bless! -
Peace "eid",
I can show you another example with "salat" in sura 23. Here compare
From http//www.islamicity.com/QuranSearch/
23 23From http//www.islamicity.com/mosque/arabicscript/Ayat/2/2_3.htm
http//www.islamicity.com/mosque/arabicscript/Ayat/2/2_3.gif
Do you see now that the quran search counting script is wrong? You need to look at the image one. I havnt yet found a correct Arabic searchable script online with which you can search with letters like in the original image script. GOD Bless! -
Peace again "Eid",
See now how the same mistake is made with the word "ataani" in 1930.
From http//www.islamicity.com/QuranSearch/
(1930)
From http//www.islamicity.com/mosque/arabicscript/Ayat/19/19_30.htm
http//www.islamicity.com/mosque/arabicscript/Ayat/19/19_30.gifDO YOU SEE CLEARLY IN THE IMAGE THE YA WAVE IN THE WORD "ATAANI" BETWEEN THE WAVES OF TA AND NOON UPON WHICH THERES THE SMALL VOWEL MARK ALIF? NOTICE IN THE SAME VERSE THERES NO WAVE BTW TA AND BA IN THE WORD "KITAAB" DESPITE THERE BEING A SMALL VOWEL MARK ALIF IN BTW. The undotted wave is NOT just for placing an alif on it. It is a genuine letter A YA. YAs dont need to be dotted and in the earliest manuscripts infact nothing was. GOD Bless!
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Peace jonny,
Once again you didnt answe my questions. HOW do you determine which is the true Quran?
...Salat should be spelled "sad lam WAW ha" as in the original NOT "sad lam alif ha".
....Just look at how they spell "rahmat" in 192
They spell it "ra ha meem HA" isntead of "ra ha meem ta"...See now how the same mistake is made with the word "ataani" in 1930.
YAs dont need to be dotted and in the earliest manuscripts infact nothing was.These are the same missionary type of questions to create doubt.
http//www.answering-islam.org/Green/seven.htm
It makes little difference; the meanings of the words are known.
Here is a suggestion, instead of being ALL OVER THE PLACE, tell us about the two smallest chapters ? tie #of words/letters to the chapter # and prevent someone from flipping verses between chapters or deleting and adding words and letters within each chapter etc and tell us how nineteen prevents this.
1081
1082
10831101
1102
1103One can fix most problems by breaking it down to simplest components and if you cannot solve this for the smallest chapters don?t even waste time with the larger ones with this numerology nonesense.
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Peace "eid",
Peace jonny,
These are the same missionary type of questions to create doubt.
http//www.answering-islam.org/Green/seven.htm
It makes little difference; the meanings of the words are known.
JK- YES BUT wer talking about letters here mainly. The meanings of the words in many cases sunni/shia interpret differently too. So you saying that every word in the Quran is known is WRONG. To give u an example for centuries "muslims" thought the term "dahaaha" meant "spread out" hence promoting a flat earth whilst further rearch found it to imply "ostrich egg shaped".
Here is a suggestion, instead of being ALL OVER THE PLACE, tell us about the two smallest chapters ? tie #of words/letters to the chapter # and prevent someone from flipping verses between chapters or deleting and adding words and letters within each chapter etc and tell us how nineteen prevents this.
1081
1082
10831101
1102
1103One can fix most problems by breaking it down to simplest components and if you cannot solve this for the smallest chapters don?t even waste time with the larger ones with this numerology nonesense.
JK- Finally the code will cover each and every letter. That is my prediction. I told you already that the numerical structure is still just in its very early phase and we rely mostly on the manuscript dated close to the death of Muhammad but not yet entirely during his lifetime. The Quran WILL reveal itself gradually ia the mechanisms provided by GOD. I WANT YOU to admit that the initial count is at least SIGNIFICANT and shows that 19 is there. So have you accepted the counts now finally before we move on? GOD Bless!
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Peace jonny,
JK- YES BUT wer talking about letters here mainly. The meanings of the words in many cases sunni/shia interpret differently too. So you saying that every word in the Quran is known is WRONG. To give u an example for centuries "muslims" thought the term "dahaaha" meant "spread out" hence promoting a flat earth whilst further rearch found it to imply "ostrich egg shaped".
Not saying every word is WRONG, only there may be slight spelling and recitation differences.
Egg shape is an attempt to fit translation to a round globe similar to how missionaries twist the word encompasses
http//bible.cc/isaiah/40-22.htmIf taken literally means sits on top of the globe like on a ball which is absurd as egg shape which the earth is NOT!
7930 And the earth after that He stretched/spread it.
http//www.openburhan.net/ob.php?sid=79&vid=30The above has nothing to do with flat earth or physics unless you believe in expanding earth theory...
http//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Growing_earth.gif
New Model of the Universe
Videos
http//www.nealadams.com/nmu.html
http//www.continuitystudios.net/clip00.htmlI read it as allegoric "stretched/spread it" like a welcoming carpet, made it comfortable, etc.
JK- Finally the code will cover each and every letter. That is my prediction. I told you already that the numerical structure is still just in its very early phase and we rely mostly on the manuscript dated close to the death of Muhammad but not yet entirely during his lifetime. The Quran WILL reveal itself gradually ia the mechanisms provided by GOD. I WANT YOU to admit that the initial count is at least SIGNIFICANT and shows that 19 is there. So have you accepted the counts now finally before we move on? GOD Bless!
Accept what counts and all the nonsense on submission.org and 19.org? They are all over the place, inconsistent, insignificant, and if you keep messing with anything long enough shredding it to pieces to fit a none existent numerology code it will look nothing like the original.
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Peace "Eid",
Peace jonny,
Not saying every word is WRONG, only there may be slight spelling and recitation differences.
JK- When your counting letters and insist that others manipualte and you have te correct count then you sure must take into consideration that certain letters were added and left out in quranic manuscripts. That is what ive clearly shown when sometimes "waw" is repalced with "fa" int he same word in the same verse for example.
Egg shape is an attempt to fit translation to a round globe similar to how missionaries twist the word encompasses
http//bible.cc/isaiah/40-22.htmIf taken literally means sits on top of the globe like on a ball which is absurd as egg shape which the earth is NOT!
JK- The earth is slightly flatened at the poles and is not a perfect sphere which is similar to an OSTRICH, NOT A NORMAL, egg. HOWEVER that is not the only misunderstanding of Quranic terms. Let me ive you another example. "7 samawaat". Some people thought it was the 7 layers of the atmosphere. But that cant be the case because the quantization is ambiguous and there can be more sub layers always introduced. Some "muslims" say it means "7 dimensions". Yet others have claimed they are "7 parallel universes". So you cant say the meaning is always understood. Moreover shia use verse 424 to justify "mut'a" because a derivaive of the term "astaMT'Atum" occurs in there whilst sunnis reject it. So it goes as far as legal issues.
7930 And the earth after that He stretched/spread it.
http//www.openburhan.net/ob.php?sid=79&vid=30The above has nothing to do with flat earth or physics unless you believe in expanding earth theory...
http//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Growing_earth.gif
New Model of the Universe
Videos
http//www.nealadams.com/nmu.html
http//www.continuitystudios.net/clip00.htmlI read it as allegoric "stretched/spread it" like a welcoming carpet, made it comfortable, etc.
JK- Ok fine but as i mentioned there are more problems of understanding terms. No one can claim that he understands the whole Quran or every term of the Quran or even that humans collectively to this day understand all of it.
Accept what counts and all the nonsense on submission.org and 19.org? They are all over the place, inconsistent, insignificant, and if you keep messing with anything long enough shredding it to pieces to fit a none existent numerology code it will look nothing like the original.
JK- I showed you FROM THE IMAGES, NOT ARABIC SERACH DATABSE, AT ISLAMICITY that "fanadaaha" has one YA BTW DAAL AND HA BELOW THE VOWEL MARK ALIF and "ataaniy" has TWO YAS one at the end AND ANOTHER BTW TA AND NOON. So do you agree with that now? GOD Bless!
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Peace jonny,
JK- The earth is slightly flatened at the poles and is not a perfect sphere which is similar to an OSTRICH, NOT A NORMAL, egg. HOWEVER that is not the only misunderstanding of Quranic terms. Let me ive you another example. "7 samawaat". Some people thought it was the 7 layers of the atmosphere. But that cant be the case because the quantization is ambiguous and there can be more sub layers always introduced. Some "muslims" say it means "7 dimensions". Yet others have claimed they are "7 parallel universes". So you cant say the meaning is always understood. Moreover shia use verse 424 to justify "mut'a" because a derivaive of the term "astaMT'Atum" occurs in there whilst sunnis reject it. So it goes as far as legal issues.
Of course not atmosphere for that would put the stars in the lowest atmosphere and spelling to make nineteen does not help common sense; what I meant by understood is words like rahmat and salat regardless how pronounced or spelled.
JK- I showed you FROM THE IMAGES, NOT ARABIC SERACH DATABSE, AT ISLAMICITY that "fanadaaha" has one YA BTW DAAL AND HA BELOW THE VOWEL MARK ALIF and "ataaniy" has TWO YAS one at the end AND ANOTHER BTW TA AND NOON. So do you agree with that now? GOD Bless!
I agree with this? (listen to voice 523 minute)
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5aIi3OqOJU
A favorite chapter, often enjoy listening to in the car on long drives.
Peace
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Peace "eid",
Peace jonny,
Of course not atmosphere for that would put the stars in the lowest atmosphere and spelling to make nineteen does not help common sense; what I meant by understood is words like rahmat and salat regardless how pronounced or spelled.
JK- 2st why do you restrict the understanding to "rahmat" and "salat" and not the many other terms in the Quran also? Are those the most important terms in the Quran? AND EVEN "salat" is in our understanding of the Quran translated WRONGLY. Consider 95. Does it make sense that GOD whos already sttaed that theres no compulsion inr religion in sura 2 ask of us to only forgive certain unbeleivers if they perform ritual prayers? NO tht doesnt make any sense at all. Salat means more of a comittment or the learning process which one goes through if somenone is explaining something and the one studying it.
I agree with this? (listen to voice 523 minute)
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5aIi3OqOJU
A favorite chapter, often enjoy listening to in the car on long drives.
Peace
JK- Wer talking about the WRTING/SCRIPTURE/KITAAB not the recital(qiraa) here. Do you know how the word pronounced "'alaa" meaning "upon" is spelled? It is spelled "ain laam YA" not "ain laam ALIF". Also do you know how the word "salat" is spelled? It is spelled "saad lam WAW ha" NOT "sad laam ALIF ha". So in many cases a word with an alif pronounciation is spelled with a ya or even waw as in the case of "salat". You should lknow this as an Arab. GOT IT? So i ask you again DO YOU AGREE THAT THE TERM "FANADAAHA" IN 1924 IS SPELLED WIH A YA BTW DAAL AND HA AND DO YOU ALSO AGREE THAT THE TERM "ATAANI" IN 1930 IS ALSO SPELLED WITH A YA BTW TA AND NOON? GOD Bless!
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Listen?
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4HrUFIbzyI
Nice conversing with you jonny ? God bless.
Peace
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Peace "Eid",
Listen?
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4HrUFIbzyI
Nice conversing with you jonny ? God bless.
Peace
JK- Just answer me this. Is "salat" spelled "sad laam waw ha" or "sad laam alif ha"? Is "'ala" spelled "ain laam alif" or "ain laam ya"? Is "rahman" spelled "ra Ha meem alif noon" or "ra Ha meem noon"? GOD Bless!
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Peace again "eid",
Let me show you how inconsistent you were even according to your own counting of "ya".You wrote
My(Eid's) list included y hamza and what no problem with wara-ee?
195
JK- Now look how you included the UNDOTTED WAVE from the Aabic script before the final dotted ya in your count. The one which is topped by hamza as a diacritical mark. BUT when it comes to "fanadaaha" YOU FORGOT TO DO THE SAME AND INSIST THAT THERES NO UNDOTTED YA WAVE THERE BTW DAAL AND HA BUT INSTEAD YOU SELECT THE ALIF KHARANJIYYA(i.e. daggar alif which is a DIACRITICAL MARK NOT LETTER ALIF) AS A LETTER. Here is the verse again in image NOT UNICODE which is Persian anyways and therefore FALSE.
http//www.islamicity.com/mosque/arabicscript/Ayat/19/19_24.gif
GOD Bless! -
Peace jonny,
Let me show you how inconsistent you were even according to your own counting of "ya".
Arabic evolved from Nabataean Aramaic script, used since 4th century, earliest inscriptions in Arabic, Syriac and Greek from 512; Aramaic has fewer consonants than Arabic, so during the 7th century new Arabic letters were created by adding dots to existing letters in order to avoid ambiguities and diacritics indicating short vowels were introduced to ensure the Qur'an was read aloud without mistakes. Think of it as everyone sings the song "my way" ...
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGfcf1acU1I
http//www.ancientscripts.com/arabic.html
http//www.transparent.com/arabic/alif-and-hamza/
http//www.transparent.com/arabic/alif-and-hamza-part-2/
http//www.answers.com/topic/hamza
http//en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Arabic/LearnRW/hamza_and_Superscript_AlifOnly reason Qur'an is in Arabic...
4144
Else if different land/messenger as in ancient Illyricum (land of two-horns) extinct Illyrian would suffice.
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Peace "Eid",
Peace jonny,
Arabic evolved from Nabataean Aramaic script, used since 4th century, earliest inscriptions in Arabic, Syriac and Greek from 512; Aramaic has fewer consonants than Arabic, so during the 7th century new Arabic letters were created by adding dots to existing letters in order to avoid ambiguities and diacritics indicating short vowels were introduced to ensure the Qur'an was read aloud without mistakes. Think of it as everyone sings the song "my way" ...
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGfcf1acU1I
http//www.ancientscripts.com/arabic.html
http//www.transparent.com/arabic/alif-and-hamza/
http//www.transparent.com/arabic/alif-and-hamza-part-2/
http//www.answers.com/topic/hamza
http//en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Arabic/LearnRW/hamza_and_Superscript_AlifOnly reason Qur'an is in Arabic...
4144
Else if different land/messenger as in ancient Illyricum (land of two-horns) extinct Illyrian would suffice.
JK- The Quran did not have diacritical marks originally, YES i know this well, BUT everyone could distinguish the letters by reading it in the context AND everyone could identify which letter is a ya, a ta, a tha etc because ALL LETTERS HAD WAVES OF VARIOUS SHAPES present IN WRITING. NOW FOR THE LAST TIME HOW DO YOU SPELL THE TERMS RAHMAN, 'ALA AND SALAT? GOD Bless!
-
997
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Peace "Eid",
997
JK- So then how come you trust the Arabs when they claim to have put the Quran to memory? What is this nonsense? YOUR CONTINUOUSLY AVOIDING THE ISSUE. You have not answered my question. Im not going to let you get away with this. HOW DO YOU SPELL SALAT, RAHMAN AND 'ALAA? GOD Bless!
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Peace jonny,
JK- So then how come you trust the Arabs when they claim to have put the Quran to memory? What is this nonsense? YOUR CONTINUOUSLY AVOIDING THE ISSUE. You have not answered my question. Im not going to let you get away with this. HOW DO YOU SPELL SALAT, RAHMAN AND 'ALAA? GOD Bless!
Look not all are Arabs?
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZCofcQzscsSometimes I spell it as faljen (namazin) and M?shiruesi ?
Dhe paqe me ju!
Selamun alejkum
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Peace "Eid",
JK- So then how come you trust the Arabs when they claim to have put the Quran to memory? What is this nonsense?
Dear JK peace
Your comments of above appear under one verse
What do you meand by
How did you translateit as "Arabs".
If at sometime one is "kaafir" what it has to do with memorization of the Quran when he becomes a muslim ?
You call it as "non sense " but I feel it otherway round.
Waiting for your explanation.
Thanks