How many verses are there in the quran ?
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Peace again "Eid",
See now how the same mistake is made with the word "ataani" in 1930.
From http//www.islamicity.com/QuranSearch/
(1930)
From http//www.islamicity.com/mosque/arabicscript/Ayat/19/19_30.htm
http//www.islamicity.com/mosque/arabicscript/Ayat/19/19_30.gifDO YOU SEE CLEARLY IN THE IMAGE THE YA WAVE IN THE WORD "ATAANI" BETWEEN THE WAVES OF TA AND NOON UPON WHICH THERES THE SMALL VOWEL MARK ALIF? NOTICE IN THE SAME VERSE THERES NO WAVE BTW TA AND BA IN THE WORD "KITAAB" DESPITE THERE BEING A SMALL VOWEL MARK ALIF IN BTW. The undotted wave is NOT just for placing an alif on it. It is a genuine letter A YA. YAs dont need to be dotted and in the earliest manuscripts infact nothing was. GOD Bless!
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Peace jonny,
Once again you didnt answe my questions. HOW do you determine which is the true Quran?
...Salat should be spelled "sad lam WAW ha" as in the original NOT "sad lam alif ha".
....Just look at how they spell "rahmat" in 192
They spell it "ra ha meem HA" isntead of "ra ha meem ta"...See now how the same mistake is made with the word "ataani" in 1930.
YAs dont need to be dotted and in the earliest manuscripts infact nothing was.These are the same missionary type of questions to create doubt.
http//www.answering-islam.org/Green/seven.htm
It makes little difference; the meanings of the words are known.
Here is a suggestion, instead of being ALL OVER THE PLACE, tell us about the two smallest chapters ? tie #of words/letters to the chapter # and prevent someone from flipping verses between chapters or deleting and adding words and letters within each chapter etc and tell us how nineteen prevents this.
1081
1082
10831101
1102
1103One can fix most problems by breaking it down to simplest components and if you cannot solve this for the smallest chapters don?t even waste time with the larger ones with this numerology nonesense.
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Peace "eid",
Peace jonny,
These are the same missionary type of questions to create doubt.
http//www.answering-islam.org/Green/seven.htm
It makes little difference; the meanings of the words are known.
JK- YES BUT wer talking about letters here mainly. The meanings of the words in many cases sunni/shia interpret differently too. So you saying that every word in the Quran is known is WRONG. To give u an example for centuries "muslims" thought the term "dahaaha" meant "spread out" hence promoting a flat earth whilst further rearch found it to imply "ostrich egg shaped".
Here is a suggestion, instead of being ALL OVER THE PLACE, tell us about the two smallest chapters ? tie #of words/letters to the chapter # and prevent someone from flipping verses between chapters or deleting and adding words and letters within each chapter etc and tell us how nineteen prevents this.
1081
1082
10831101
1102
1103One can fix most problems by breaking it down to simplest components and if you cannot solve this for the smallest chapters don?t even waste time with the larger ones with this numerology nonesense.
JK- Finally the code will cover each and every letter. That is my prediction. I told you already that the numerical structure is still just in its very early phase and we rely mostly on the manuscript dated close to the death of Muhammad but not yet entirely during his lifetime. The Quran WILL reveal itself gradually ia the mechanisms provided by GOD. I WANT YOU to admit that the initial count is at least SIGNIFICANT and shows that 19 is there. So have you accepted the counts now finally before we move on? GOD Bless!
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Peace jonny,
JK- YES BUT wer talking about letters here mainly. The meanings of the words in many cases sunni/shia interpret differently too. So you saying that every word in the Quran is known is WRONG. To give u an example for centuries "muslims" thought the term "dahaaha" meant "spread out" hence promoting a flat earth whilst further rearch found it to imply "ostrich egg shaped".
Not saying every word is WRONG, only there may be slight spelling and recitation differences.
Egg shape is an attempt to fit translation to a round globe similar to how missionaries twist the word encompasses
http//bible.cc/isaiah/40-22.htmIf taken literally means sits on top of the globe like on a ball which is absurd as egg shape which the earth is NOT!
7930 And the earth after that He stretched/spread it.
http//www.openburhan.net/ob.php?sid=79&vid=30The above has nothing to do with flat earth or physics unless you believe in expanding earth theory...
http//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Growing_earth.gif
New Model of the Universe
Videos
http//www.nealadams.com/nmu.html
http//www.continuitystudios.net/clip00.htmlI read it as allegoric "stretched/spread it" like a welcoming carpet, made it comfortable, etc.
JK- Finally the code will cover each and every letter. That is my prediction. I told you already that the numerical structure is still just in its very early phase and we rely mostly on the manuscript dated close to the death of Muhammad but not yet entirely during his lifetime. The Quran WILL reveal itself gradually ia the mechanisms provided by GOD. I WANT YOU to admit that the initial count is at least SIGNIFICANT and shows that 19 is there. So have you accepted the counts now finally before we move on? GOD Bless!
Accept what counts and all the nonsense on submission.org and 19.org? They are all over the place, inconsistent, insignificant, and if you keep messing with anything long enough shredding it to pieces to fit a none existent numerology code it will look nothing like the original.
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Peace "Eid",
Peace jonny,
Not saying every word is WRONG, only there may be slight spelling and recitation differences.
JK- When your counting letters and insist that others manipualte and you have te correct count then you sure must take into consideration that certain letters were added and left out in quranic manuscripts. That is what ive clearly shown when sometimes "waw" is repalced with "fa" int he same word in the same verse for example.
Egg shape is an attempt to fit translation to a round globe similar to how missionaries twist the word encompasses
http//bible.cc/isaiah/40-22.htmIf taken literally means sits on top of the globe like on a ball which is absurd as egg shape which the earth is NOT!
JK- The earth is slightly flatened at the poles and is not a perfect sphere which is similar to an OSTRICH, NOT A NORMAL, egg. HOWEVER that is not the only misunderstanding of Quranic terms. Let me ive you another example. "7 samawaat". Some people thought it was the 7 layers of the atmosphere. But that cant be the case because the quantization is ambiguous and there can be more sub layers always introduced. Some "muslims" say it means "7 dimensions". Yet others have claimed they are "7 parallel universes". So you cant say the meaning is always understood. Moreover shia use verse 424 to justify "mut'a" because a derivaive of the term "astaMT'Atum" occurs in there whilst sunnis reject it. So it goes as far as legal issues.
7930 And the earth after that He stretched/spread it.
http//www.openburhan.net/ob.php?sid=79&vid=30The above has nothing to do with flat earth or physics unless you believe in expanding earth theory...
http//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Growing_earth.gif
New Model of the Universe
Videos
http//www.nealadams.com/nmu.html
http//www.continuitystudios.net/clip00.htmlI read it as allegoric "stretched/spread it" like a welcoming carpet, made it comfortable, etc.
JK- Ok fine but as i mentioned there are more problems of understanding terms. No one can claim that he understands the whole Quran or every term of the Quran or even that humans collectively to this day understand all of it.
Accept what counts and all the nonsense on submission.org and 19.org? They are all over the place, inconsistent, insignificant, and if you keep messing with anything long enough shredding it to pieces to fit a none existent numerology code it will look nothing like the original.
JK- I showed you FROM THE IMAGES, NOT ARABIC SERACH DATABSE, AT ISLAMICITY that "fanadaaha" has one YA BTW DAAL AND HA BELOW THE VOWEL MARK ALIF and "ataaniy" has TWO YAS one at the end AND ANOTHER BTW TA AND NOON. So do you agree with that now? GOD Bless!
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Peace jonny,
JK- The earth is slightly flatened at the poles and is not a perfect sphere which is similar to an OSTRICH, NOT A NORMAL, egg. HOWEVER that is not the only misunderstanding of Quranic terms. Let me ive you another example. "7 samawaat". Some people thought it was the 7 layers of the atmosphere. But that cant be the case because the quantization is ambiguous and there can be more sub layers always introduced. Some "muslims" say it means "7 dimensions". Yet others have claimed they are "7 parallel universes". So you cant say the meaning is always understood. Moreover shia use verse 424 to justify "mut'a" because a derivaive of the term "astaMT'Atum" occurs in there whilst sunnis reject it. So it goes as far as legal issues.
Of course not atmosphere for that would put the stars in the lowest atmosphere and spelling to make nineteen does not help common sense; what I meant by understood is words like rahmat and salat regardless how pronounced or spelled.
JK- I showed you FROM THE IMAGES, NOT ARABIC SERACH DATABSE, AT ISLAMICITY that "fanadaaha" has one YA BTW DAAL AND HA BELOW THE VOWEL MARK ALIF and "ataaniy" has TWO YAS one at the end AND ANOTHER BTW TA AND NOON. So do you agree with that now? GOD Bless!
I agree with this? (listen to voice 523 minute)
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5aIi3OqOJU
A favorite chapter, often enjoy listening to in the car on long drives.
Peace
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Peace "eid",
Peace jonny,
Of course not atmosphere for that would put the stars in the lowest atmosphere and spelling to make nineteen does not help common sense; what I meant by understood is words like rahmat and salat regardless how pronounced or spelled.
JK- 2st why do you restrict the understanding to "rahmat" and "salat" and not the many other terms in the Quran also? Are those the most important terms in the Quran? AND EVEN "salat" is in our understanding of the Quran translated WRONGLY. Consider 95. Does it make sense that GOD whos already sttaed that theres no compulsion inr religion in sura 2 ask of us to only forgive certain unbeleivers if they perform ritual prayers? NO tht doesnt make any sense at all. Salat means more of a comittment or the learning process which one goes through if somenone is explaining something and the one studying it.
I agree with this? (listen to voice 523 minute)
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5aIi3OqOJU
A favorite chapter, often enjoy listening to in the car on long drives.
Peace
JK- Wer talking about the WRTING/SCRIPTURE/KITAAB not the recital(qiraa) here. Do you know how the word pronounced "'alaa" meaning "upon" is spelled? It is spelled "ain laam YA" not "ain laam ALIF". Also do you know how the word "salat" is spelled? It is spelled "saad lam WAW ha" NOT "sad laam ALIF ha". So in many cases a word with an alif pronounciation is spelled with a ya or even waw as in the case of "salat". You should lknow this as an Arab. GOT IT? So i ask you again DO YOU AGREE THAT THE TERM "FANADAAHA" IN 1924 IS SPELLED WIH A YA BTW DAAL AND HA AND DO YOU ALSO AGREE THAT THE TERM "ATAANI" IN 1930 IS ALSO SPELLED WITH A YA BTW TA AND NOON? GOD Bless!
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Listen?
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4HrUFIbzyI
Nice conversing with you jonny ? God bless.
Peace
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Peace "Eid",
Listen?
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4HrUFIbzyI
Nice conversing with you jonny ? God bless.
Peace
JK- Just answer me this. Is "salat" spelled "sad laam waw ha" or "sad laam alif ha"? Is "'ala" spelled "ain laam alif" or "ain laam ya"? Is "rahman" spelled "ra Ha meem alif noon" or "ra Ha meem noon"? GOD Bless!
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Peace again "eid",
Let me show you how inconsistent you were even according to your own counting of "ya".You wrote
My(Eid's) list included y hamza and what no problem with wara-ee?
195
JK- Now look how you included the UNDOTTED WAVE from the Aabic script before the final dotted ya in your count. The one which is topped by hamza as a diacritical mark. BUT when it comes to "fanadaaha" YOU FORGOT TO DO THE SAME AND INSIST THAT THERES NO UNDOTTED YA WAVE THERE BTW DAAL AND HA BUT INSTEAD YOU SELECT THE ALIF KHARANJIYYA(i.e. daggar alif which is a DIACRITICAL MARK NOT LETTER ALIF) AS A LETTER. Here is the verse again in image NOT UNICODE which is Persian anyways and therefore FALSE.
http//www.islamicity.com/mosque/arabicscript/Ayat/19/19_24.gif
GOD Bless! -
Peace jonny,
Let me show you how inconsistent you were even according to your own counting of "ya".
Arabic evolved from Nabataean Aramaic script, used since 4th century, earliest inscriptions in Arabic, Syriac and Greek from 512; Aramaic has fewer consonants than Arabic, so during the 7th century new Arabic letters were created by adding dots to existing letters in order to avoid ambiguities and diacritics indicating short vowels were introduced to ensure the Qur'an was read aloud without mistakes. Think of it as everyone sings the song "my way" ...
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGfcf1acU1I
http//www.ancientscripts.com/arabic.html
http//www.transparent.com/arabic/alif-and-hamza/
http//www.transparent.com/arabic/alif-and-hamza-part-2/
http//www.answers.com/topic/hamza
http//en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Arabic/LearnRW/hamza_and_Superscript_AlifOnly reason Qur'an is in Arabic...
4144
Else if different land/messenger as in ancient Illyricum (land of two-horns) extinct Illyrian would suffice.
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Peace "Eid",
Peace jonny,
Arabic evolved from Nabataean Aramaic script, used since 4th century, earliest inscriptions in Arabic, Syriac and Greek from 512; Aramaic has fewer consonants than Arabic, so during the 7th century new Arabic letters were created by adding dots to existing letters in order to avoid ambiguities and diacritics indicating short vowels were introduced to ensure the Qur'an was read aloud without mistakes. Think of it as everyone sings the song "my way" ...
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGfcf1acU1I
http//www.ancientscripts.com/arabic.html
http//www.transparent.com/arabic/alif-and-hamza/
http//www.transparent.com/arabic/alif-and-hamza-part-2/
http//www.answers.com/topic/hamza
http//en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Arabic/LearnRW/hamza_and_Superscript_AlifOnly reason Qur'an is in Arabic...
4144
Else if different land/messenger as in ancient Illyricum (land of two-horns) extinct Illyrian would suffice.
JK- The Quran did not have diacritical marks originally, YES i know this well, BUT everyone could distinguish the letters by reading it in the context AND everyone could identify which letter is a ya, a ta, a tha etc because ALL LETTERS HAD WAVES OF VARIOUS SHAPES present IN WRITING. NOW FOR THE LAST TIME HOW DO YOU SPELL THE TERMS RAHMAN, 'ALA AND SALAT? GOD Bless!
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997
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Peace "Eid",
997
JK- So then how come you trust the Arabs when they claim to have put the Quran to memory? What is this nonsense? YOUR CONTINUOUSLY AVOIDING THE ISSUE. You have not answered my question. Im not going to let you get away with this. HOW DO YOU SPELL SALAT, RAHMAN AND 'ALAA? GOD Bless!
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Peace jonny,
JK- So then how come you trust the Arabs when they claim to have put the Quran to memory? What is this nonsense? YOUR CONTINUOUSLY AVOIDING THE ISSUE. You have not answered my question. Im not going to let you get away with this. HOW DO YOU SPELL SALAT, RAHMAN AND 'ALAA? GOD Bless!
Look not all are Arabs?
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZCofcQzscsSometimes I spell it as faljen (namazin) and M?shiruesi ?
Dhe paqe me ju!
Selamun alejkum
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Peace "Eid",
JK- So then how come you trust the Arabs when they claim to have put the Quran to memory? What is this nonsense?
Dear JK peace
Your comments of above appear under one verse
What do you meand by
How did you translateit as "Arabs".
If at sometime one is "kaafir" what it has to do with memorization of the Quran when he becomes a muslim ?
You call it as "non sense " but I feel it otherway round.
Waiting for your explanation.
Thanks -
Peace "Eid",
Peace jonny,
Look not all are Arabs?
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZCofcQzscsSometimes I spell it as faljen (namazin) and M?shiruesi ?
Dhe paqe me ju!
Selamun alejkum
JK- Eid are YOU AN ARAB OR NOT for it sure sounds like that from your name "eid ABDULLAH"? If so you should know how those three Arabic terms are spelled. SO PL SPEL THEM HERE FOR ME. Thnx. GOD Bless!
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Peace jonny,
JK- Eid are YOU AN ARAB OR NOT for it sure sounds like that from your name "eid ABDULLAH"? If so you should know how those three Arabic terms are spelled. SO PL SPEL THEM HERE FOR ME. Thnx. GOD Bless!
Why to prove a pointless point. Here you agreed with my count except a few verses...
JK- IM including all yas YOU included MINUS EIGHT yas from terms "shaiyan(sheen YA hamza alif, occuring 6 times in 199,27,42,60,67,89)", "israeel(alif seen ra hamza YA lam, in 195" and "warian(waw ra hamza YA alif in 1974)" all of these having only ONE YA AND NOT TWO LIKE YOU MR.EID SHOWED IN YOUR LIST. PLUS i added TWO yas, one from the word "nadaaha(noon daal YA ha alif)" in 1924 and the other "ataania(hamza alif ta YA noon YA)" from 1930 see (http//www.islamicity.com/mosque/arabicscript/10_19/19_20-25.htm) and
(http//www.islamicity.com/mosque/arabicscript/10_19/19_26-30.htm). So 8-2=6. Minus 6 from your result 349 and you get exactly 343. CLEAR?My list also included y hamza in wara-ee?
195
Therefore, according to you 349 ? 7 = 342
19 K H Y A S 137 + 175 + 342 + 117 + 26 = 797 NOT MULTIPLE!
Now a question for you; how do you say/spell the name below ? tell us which is correct and why?
Hebrew , Modern Avraham Tiberian Arhm Ashkenazi Avrohom or Avruhom ; Arabic , Ibrhm
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Peace all
I posted my query to know if we really have a basis for making the "counts" as those who espouse Code 19 want us to believe. I am on my own journey to understand whether there is or there is not a basis for Code 19.
Even before I start joining the "counting" bandwagon, I need to verify, among others, these three claims
- Rashad Khalifa is the messenger of the covenant based on 381.
- The "it" in 7430 refers to a sign concerning the quran, and consequently to the code 19.
- The numbers (or symbols, whichever is applicable) of the chapters and verses were part of the revelation to Muhammad (please refer back to my inquiries).
If these three basic claims are not satisfied, then I really don't need to proceed with the counting as the counting has no basis to start with.
May God forgive me if I'm wrong, but my study has so far showed me that Rashad Khalifa is not the messenger of the covenant mentioned in 381. How can he confirm/authenticate what the prophets have and in turn they will acknowledge and support him? The same situation will arise even if the interpretation of 381 would be a messenger for every prophet.
Further, no matter how you read 7430 it always points back to saqar and the 19 angels guarding over it, and that the number or the count of 19 is not an ayat or sign but a fitna or a test/trial. So what is the basis of code 19 from this verse?
Now, I'm not really sure about the chapter or verse numbers, especially on whether they form part of the revelation to Muhammad or that they were later introduced into the quran for easy referencing. I'd like to ask the brothers and the sisters here who can recite the quran from memory. When you recite the quran do you think of the chapter and verse number(s) or do you just flow from one verse to another unmindful of these numbers? If the chapter and verse numbers are not needed in the RECITATION of the quran, then it could really have been introduced FOR EASY READING. In this case, counting 19s has no basis to start with.
The problem now is that this post/inquiry has been hijacked by conversations on the "counting" itself, so I expect this post to die a natural death. Nonetheless, I appreciate the responsive responses from some brothers. And I apologize for the late reply since I just shifted from a graveyard shift job to a day job. I have never seen beautiful sunrises for too long until now, alhamdulillah.
May God increase our knowledge.
Peace everyone,
ramon