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  4. DO AYATS 5:5 AND 6:146, PRECLUDE THE PIG AS BEING HARAM...?

DO AYATS 5:5 AND 6:146, PRECLUDE THE PIG AS BEING HARAM...?

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  • E Offline
    E Offline
    No longer a Sunna-rejecter
    wrote on last edited by
    #139

    Salamun alaykum

    Q_student . Do you feel that there should be some verses ( Ayat ) of the Qur'an that Prevent The Pig as Being Haram ? After all of the verses cited including by yourself that eating of pig meat is clearly haram ? I am totally confused by "the heading of this thread" . Progressive1993 replied with the appropriate answers backed by verses relevant to the subject matters , yet you complained about his inclusion of some hadiths evidence which is informative , though not necessarily valid .

    Let's see the topic heading again ...." Do Ayats 55 AND 6146 , PRECLUDE THE PIG AS BEING HARAM...?" , are you asking if these two ayats prevent The Pig from being Prohibited to be consumed or what ? Please help me understand , if haram means Prohibit/ed/ion , why are you asking if these afore mentioned verses Prevent the pig from being so ( haram) ? .

    Peace and thank you

    almarh0m

    Peace brother,

    I understand that you might be confused by all this discussion. I will answer your question. Here is the verse you quoted (55) along with 2 previous verses (53-4) - meaning that it is in context.

    (53) Prohibited for you are animals that die of themselves, blood, the meat of
    pigs, and animals dedicated to other than GOD. (Animals that die of them-
    selves include those ) strangled, struck with an object, fallen from a height,
    gored, attacked by a wild animal--unless you save your animal before it
    dies--and animals sacrificed on altars. Also prohibited is dividing the meat
    through a game of chance; this is an abomination. Today, the disbelievers have given up concerning(the eradication of ) your religion; do not fear them and fear Me instead. Today, I have completed your religion, perfected My blessing upon you, and I have decreed Submission as the religion for you.
    If one is forced by famine (to eat prohibited food ), without being deliberately sinful, then GOD is
    Forgiver, Merciful.

    (54) They consult you concerning what
    is lawful for them; say, "Lawful for
    you are all good things, including
    what trained dogs and falcons catch
    for you." You train them according
    to GOD's teachings. You may eat
    what they catch for you, and
    mention GOD's name thereupon.
    You shall observe GOD.
    GOD is most efficient in reckoning.

    1. Today, all good food is made lawful
      for you. The food of the people of
      the scripture is lawful for you.
      Also, you may marry the chaste women
      among the believers, as well as the chaste women
      among the followers of previous scripture,
      provided you pay them their due dowries.
      You shall maintain chastity, not committing adultery,
      nor taking secret lovers. Anyone who rejects faith,
      all his work will be in vain, and in the Hereafter
      he will be with the losers.

    Do you understand now? If God would have meant that EVERY SINGLE THING is lawful, then prohibitions in the Quran would not only contradict the verses that contain prohibitions, but would also be useless since all things would be lawful. And we know that there are no contradictions in the Quran and every word in the Quran has its purpose.

    Note that it says all GOOD things are lawful. This means everything that is good/not mentioned as unlawful is, by default, lawful.

    When it says that the food of the people of the scripture is lawful, this is refering to the food accorfin gto the bible and torah. They forbid pork along with numerous other things, which is where hadithists get there prohibitions from.

    So basically No, 55 and 6146 do not make pork lawful.
    I hope your questions/concerns are answered now.

    And just as a reminder "O you who believe, do not prohibit good things that are made lawful by GOD, and do not aggress; GOD dislikes the aggressors." (587)

    "This is the book in which there is no doubt, a guide for the conscientious" (22)

    I am no longer a Sunna-rejecter. See 4:59-65, 62:2-4, 3:31, 4:156, 7:157 Messenger teaches and is to be followed and obeyed. Examples of revelation received which is not in the Qur'an: 3:123-126, 33:37, 2:187, 66:3, 62:9.

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    • M Offline
      M Offline
      Mazhar
      wrote on last edited by
      #140

      Peace brother,

      I understand that you might be confused by all this discussion. I will answer your question. Here is the verse you quoted (55) along with 2 previous verses (53-4) - meaning that it is in context.

      (53) Prohibited for you are animals that die of themselves, blood, the meat of
      pigs, and animals dedicated to other than GOD. (Animals that die of them-
      selves include those ) strangled, struck with an object, fallen from a height,
      gored, attacked by a wild animal--unless you save your animal before it
      dies--and animals sacrificed on altars. Also prohibited is dividing the meat
      through a game of chance; this is an abomination. Today, the disbelievers
      have given up concerning (the
      eradication of ) your religion; do not
      fear them and fear Me instead.
      Today, I have completed your
      religion, perfected My blessing
      upon you, and I have decreed
      Submission as the religion for you.
      If one is forced by famine (to eat
      prohibited food ), without being
      deliberately sinful, then GOD is
      Forgiver, Merciful.

      (54) They consult you concerning what
      is lawful for them; say, "Lawful for
      you are all good things, including
      what trained dogs and falcons catch
      for you." You train them according
      to GOD's teachings. You may eat
      what they catch for you, and
      mention GOD's name thereupon.
      You shall observe GOD.
      GOD is most efficient in reckoning.

      1. Today, all good food is made lawful
        for you. The food of the people of
        the scripture is lawful for you.
        Also, you may marry the chaste women
        among the believers, as well as the chaste women
        among the followers of previous scripture,
        provided you pay them their due dowries.
        You shall maintain chastity, not committing adultery,
        nor taking secret lovers. Anyone who rejects faith,
        all his work will be in vain, and in the Hereafter
        he will be with the losers.

      Do you understand now? If God would have meant that EVERY SINGLE THING is lawful, then prohibitions in the Quran would not only contradict the verses that contain prohibitions, but would also be useless since all things would be lawful. And we know that there are no contradictions in the Quran and every word in the Quran has its purpose.

      Note that it say all GOOD things are lawful. This means everything that is good/not mentioned as unlawful.

      When it says that the food of the people of the scripture is lawful, this is refering to the food accorfin gto the bible and torah. They forbid pork along with numerous other things, which is where hadithists get there prohibitions from.

      I hope your questions/concerns are answered now.

      And just as a reminder "O you who believe, do not prohibit good things that are made lawful by GOD, and do not aggress; GOD dislikes the aggressors." (587)

      "This is the book in which there is no doubt, a guide for the conscientious" (22)

      Start with this and then read the rest

      If things which you consider haram only when specifically mentioned by name then what was the need of saying "for you is made permissible ." And do not include cats and dogs or any other animal that one may like to eat. For a believer is permissible subject to conditionalities, for non believers, choice is wide open.

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      • A Offline
        A Offline
        almarh0m
        wrote on last edited by
        #141

        Peace Progressive1993

        Thank you for your clear explanation re what is expressly forbidden and what is permissible i.e. all good things . However , let me tell you that I never have problem understanding the verses cited as per Haram and Halal things to consume . As you can see in my previous post on this topic which you quoted , I did acknowledge that you gave a correct answer and explanation with relevant verses . If I may point out to you once again that I was never confused by the Ayats cited thus far , what I was and still am confused about is "The Heading of this thread . I know as well as the next person that other than what is expressly forbidden , is permissible , even by default . By the way , I addressed my post which you quoted above to Q_student . Thanks anyway .

        Cheers

        almarh0m

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        • E Offline
          E Offline
          No longer a Sunna-rejecter
          wrote on last edited by
          #142

          Peace Progressive1993

          Thank you for your clear explanation re what is expressly forbidden and what is permissible i.e. all good things . However , let me tell you that I never have problem understanding the verses cited as per Haram and Halal things to consume . As you can see in my previous post on this topic which you quoted , I did acknowledge that you gave a correct answer and explanation with relevant verses . If I may point out to you once again that I was never confused by the Ayats cited thus far , what I was and still am confused about is "The Heading of this thread . I know as well as the next person that other than what is expressly forbidden , is permissible , even by default . By the way , I addressed my post which you quoted above to Q_student . Thanks anyway .

          Cheers

          almarh0m

          I know that you adressed Q_student...just wanted to clear things up

          I am no longer a Sunna-rejecter. See 4:59-65, 62:2-4, 3:31, 4:156, 7:157 Messenger teaches and is to be followed and obeyed. Examples of revelation received which is not in the Qur'an: 3:123-126, 33:37, 2:187, 66:3, 62:9.

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          • E Offline
            E Offline
            No longer a Sunna-rejecter
            wrote on last edited by
            #143

            Start with this and then read the rest

            If things which you consider haram only when specifically mentioned by name then what was the need of saying "for you is made permissible ." And do not include cats and dogs or any other animal that one may like to eat. For a believer is permissible subject to conditionalities, for non believers, choice is wide open.

            Do you expect God to tell you that vitamin C tablets are halal?! Based on your logic, vitamin C tablets, skateboards, loud speakers, printers, DVDs, etc. would be haram because they are not mentioned as halal in the quran!!

            Please reflect back on my verses and visit the following http//www.quran-islam.org/255.html,
            http//www.quran-islam.org/118.html and http//www.submission.org/halal-meat.html

            If you still want to object, then idk what to do, since I thoroughly presented the haram food based on the Quran.

            AND BTW, this is to counter your claim about only things specifically mentioned as halal in the quran being halal and the rest being haram

            "Those who reverence the rites decreed by GOD have deserved a good reward at their Lord. All livestock is made lawful for your food, except for those SPECIFICALLY PROHIBITED for you. You shall avoid the abomination of idol worship, and avoid bearing false witness." (2230)

            "O you who believe, do not prohibit good things that are made lawful by GOD, and do not aggress; GOD dislikes the aggressors." (587)

            Just a side note you should mention the name of God before you eat food, not just meat. It is not the duty of the one who is slaughtering the animal to do so. It is your responsibility

            "You shall eat from that upon which God's name has been pronounced, if you truly believe in His revelation." (611

            "Why should you NOT eat from that upon which God's name has been mentioned ? He has DETAILED for you what is prohibited for you, unless you are forced. Indeed, many people mislead others with their personal opinions, without knowledge. Your Lord is fully aware of the transgressors." (6119)

            I am no longer a Sunna-rejecter. See 4:59-65, 62:2-4, 3:31, 4:156, 7:157 Messenger teaches and is to be followed and obeyed. Examples of revelation received which is not in the Qur'an: 3:123-126, 33:37, 2:187, 66:3, 62:9.

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            • M Offline
              M Offline
              Mazhar
              wrote on last edited by
              #144

              Do you expect God to tell you that vitamin C tablets are halal?! Based on your logic, vitamin C tablets, skateboards, loud speakers, printers, DVDs, etc. would be haram because they are not mentioned as halal in the quran!!

              Please reflect back on my verses and visit the following http//www.quran-islam.org/255.html,
              http//www.quran-islam.org/118.html and http//www.submission.org/halal-meat.html

              If you still want to object, then idk what to do, since I thoroughly presented the haram food based on the Quran.

              AND BTW, this is to counter your claim about only things specifically mentioned as halal in the quran being halal and the rest being haram

              "Those who reverence the rites decreed by GOD have deserved a good reward at their Lord. All livestock is made lawful for your food, except for those SPECIFICALLY PROHIBITED for you. You shall avoid the abomination of idol worship, and avoid bearing false witness." (2230)

              "O you who believe, do not prohibit good things that are made lawful by GOD, and do not aggress; GOD dislikes the aggressors." (587)

              Just a side note you should mention the name of God before you eat food, not just meat. It is not the duty of the one who is slaughtering the animal to do so. It is your responsibility

              "You shall eat from that upon which God's name has been pronounced, if you truly believe in His revelation." (611

              "Why should you NOT eat from that upon which God's name has been mentioned ? He has DETAILED for you what is prohibited for you, unless you are forced. Indeed, many people mislead others with their personal opinions, without knowledge. Your Lord is fully aware of the transgressors." (6119)

              Good. Now please ask someone, if you do not accept the definition given by Quran, what is meant by "livestock", this does not include dogs and rats and cats. This refers only to Herbivore mammals. Everything growing from earth which is within the meaning of Tayyebaat is declared hilal, in animals herbivore mammals. Vitamin c is the produce of land and tayyub. Do not juxtapose one thing over the other.

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              • E Offline
                E Offline
                No longer a Sunna-rejecter
                wrote on last edited by
                #145

                Good. Now please ask someone, if you do not accept the definition given by Quran, what is meant by "livestock", this does not include dogs and rats and cats. This refers only to Herbivore mammals. Everything growing from earth which is within the meaning of Tayyebaat is declared hilal, in animals herbivore mammals. Vitamin c is the produce of land and tayyub. Do not juxtapose one thing over the other.

                1. I did not only say vitamin C. I also said DVDs. Are DVDs mentioned as halal in the Quran? Based on your logic, DVDs would not be halal, since they are not mentioned as halal inm the Quran.

                2. The definition of livestock Livestock is the term used to refer (singularly or plurally) to a domesticated animal intentionally reared in an agricultural setting to produce things such as food or fiber, or for its labor. The term as used in this article does not include poultry or farmed fish; however the inclusion of these, especially poultry, within the meaning of 'livestock' is common.
                  (from Wikipedia)

                3. You have totally IGNORED the part that says "except that which is SPECIFICALLY PROHIBITED for you.

                Where does is say that horses, deers, camels, etc. are specifically prohibited.

                My challenge Quote just one verse for me from the Quran that says that horses, deers, camels, etc. are prohibited.

                Now I will give you an example Lets say that you live during the time of Prophet Muhammad. You have a farm with horses, cows and pigs. You ask him which of these livestocks are prohibited for you. He will answer with 2230..

                "Those who reverence the rites decreed by GOD have deserved a good reward at their Lord. All livestock is made lawful for your food, except for those SPECIFICALLY PROHIBITED for you. You shall avoid the abomination of idol worship, and avoid bearing false witness."

                So now you ask him "OK..what is specifically prohibited for me?"

                He answers "Prohibited for you are animals that die of themselves, blood, the meat of
                pigs, and animals dedicated to other than GOD. (Animals that die of them-
                selves include those ) strangled, struck with an object, fallen from a height,
                gored, attacked by a wild animal--unless you save your animal before it
                dies--and animals sacrificed on altars. Also prohibited is dividing the meat
                through a game of chance; this is an abomination... (53)

                Furthermore he reminds you "You shall eat from that upon which GOD's name has been pronounced, if you truly believe in His revelations." (611

                and...

                "Why should you not eat from that upon which GOD's name has been mentioned? He has detailed for you what is prohibited for you, unless you are forced. Indeed, many people mislead others with their personal opinions, without knowledge. Your Lord is fully aware of the transgressors." (6119)

                NOTE YOU SHOULD MENTION GOD's NAME BEFORE YOU EAT FOOD, NOT JUST MEAT. IT'S NOT THE JOB OF THE PERSON THAT SLAUGHTERS THE ANIMAL TO DO SO FOR YOU. IT'S YOUR RESPONSIBILITY.

                AS SIMPLE AS THAT!

                and remember "You shall not utter lies with your own tongues stating "This is lawful, and this is unlawful," to fabricate lies and attribute them to GOD. Surely, those who fabricate lies and attribute them to GOD will never succeed." (16116)

                and also "Who is more evil than one who is reminded of these revelations of his Lord, then insists upon disregarding them? We will certainly punish the guilty." (3222)

                I am no longer a Sunna-rejecter. See 4:59-65, 62:2-4, 3:31, 4:156, 7:157 Messenger teaches and is to be followed and obeyed. Examples of revelation received which is not in the Qur'an: 3:123-126, 33:37, 2:187, 66:3, 62:9.

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                • M Offline
                  M Offline
                  Mazhar
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #146

                  Do you slaughter dog, cat, lion, bear etc in the name of Allah and then eat it?
                  What animals do you eat?

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                  • E Offline
                    E Offline
                    No longer a Sunna-rejecter
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #147

                    Do you slaughter dog, cat, lion, bear etc in the name of Allah and then eat it?
                    What animals do you eat?

                    This is totally irrelevant. Don't try to switch the topic. Do you believe GOD? Do you believe in the verses that I have quoted from the Quran?

                    BTW You have also IGNORED the important commandment in the Quran that we should invoke the name of God BEOFRE EATING. It is not the job of the slaughterer to do this for us.

                    You have also IGNORED my challenge.

                    Additionally, you have IGNORED my example.

                    "You shall not utter lies with your own tongues stating "This is lawful, and this is unlawful," to fabricate lies and attribute them to GOD. Surely, those who fabricate lies and attribute them to GOD will NEVER succeed." (16116)

                    "Who is more evil than one who is reminded of these revelations of his Lord, then insists upon disregarding them? We will certainly punish the guilty." (3222)

                    I am no longer a Sunna-rejecter. See 4:59-65, 62:2-4, 3:31, 4:156, 7:157 Messenger teaches and is to be followed and obeyed. Examples of revelation received which is not in the Qur'an: 3:123-126, 33:37, 2:187, 66:3, 62:9.

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                    • M Offline
                      M Offline
                      Mazhar
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #148

                      A book is not merely for reading. A book is read for practically shaping the life. The question was the practical aspect of what you believe the book is saying. Avoiding it means in the heart of your heart you do not agree with what you are unnecessarily insisiting and keep repeating.

                      Eat only the permissible mammals, declared as Hilal by Allah.

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                      • E Offline
                        E Offline
                        No longer a Sunna-rejecter
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #149

                        A book is not merely for reading. A book is read for practically shaping the life. The question was the practical aspect of what you believe the book is saying. Avoiding it means in the heart of your heart you do not agree with what you are unnecessarily insisiting and keep repeating.

                        Eat only the permissible mammals, declared as Hilal by Allah.

                        Again, you have disregarded the verses, my challenge and my example...

                        I am no longer a Sunna-rejecter. See 4:59-65, 62:2-4, 3:31, 4:156, 7:157 Messenger teaches and is to be followed and obeyed. Examples of revelation received which is not in the Qur'an: 3:123-126, 33:37, 2:187, 66:3, 62:9.

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                        • R Offline
                          R Offline
                          Rami
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #150

                          Peace all,

                          396 He created you from one person, then He made from it its mate. And He sent down to you eight pairs of the livestock. He creates you in the wombs of your mothers, a creation after a creation in three darknesss. Such is God your Lord. To Him belongs the sovereignty. There is no god besides Him. How is it then you deviate?

                          What does it mean that God sent down(God sent down everything)? and Why didn't God include the other 'livestock' in the count. What is special about these eight pairs?

                          Now lets study some consecutive verses that I hope will resolve the issue

                          6142 And from the livestock are those for burden(Camels and/or Cows), and also for clothing(eg. sheep). Eat from what God has provided you(the ones He sent down to us) and do not follow the footsteps of the devil(by forging prohibition regarding them); he is to you a clear enemy.

                          6143 Eight pairs from the lambs two, and from the goats two. Say Is it the two males that He forbade or the two females, or what the womb of the two females bore? Inform me if you are truthful! ie. they are all allowed guys.

                          6144 And from the camels two, and from the cattle two. Say Is it the two males that He forbade or the two females, or what the womb of the two females bore? Or were you witnesses when God ordered you with this? Who is more wicked than one who invents lies about God to misguide the people without knowledge. God does not guide the wicked people. (the warning again)

                          6145 Say I do not find in what is inspired to me forbidden except that it be already dead, or blood, or the meat of pig(gross misunderstanding), for it is foul; or what is corruptly dedicated to other than God. Whoever is forced without seeking disobedience or transgression, then your Lord is Forgiving, Merciful.

                          6146 And for the Jews We have forbidden all that have claws(ie. clawed animals from the eight pairs?); and from the cattle and the sheep We forbade their fat except what is attached to the back, or entrails, or mixed with bone. That is a punishment for their rebellion, and We are truthful.

                          You will find that there is something wrong here. God sent down eight pairs of livestock. They are allowed except the dead, blood and pig? How is that even possible if pig is not included in the eight pairs in the first place.

                          In my opinion, the word 'khanzeer' which is mistranslated as pig is not a certain animal but the description of a diseased animal. So a diseased cow, goat, camel or sheep are called a 'pig'.

                          So we have a problem here. If you say that pig is the only forbidden animal, why are the livestock only eight pairs?
                          If you say that pig is an animal, why is it forbidden if it is not included in the eight pairs in the first place?

                          Peace,

                          Rami

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                          • N Offline
                            N Offline
                            nsws1988
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #151

                            Peace all,

                            6146 And for the Jews We have forbidden all that have claws(ie. clawed animals from the eight pairs?); and from the cattle and the sheep We forbade their fat except what is attached to the back, or entrails, or mixed with bone. That is a punishment for their rebellion, and We are truthful.

                            We're not Jews so why are we being punished?
                            So we can't eat chicken? Fish?
                            How about people who don't have these named livestock, like people in the amazon and the arctic?
                            What can the people eat in the arctic anyway? just seaweed?

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                            • E Offline
                              E Offline
                              No longer a Sunna-rejecter
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #152

                              It does not matter if there are 500 pairs or 8 pairs. If something is halal, then it does not mean that other things are haram. Check one of my previous posts for the evidence from the Quran. Besides, BOTH of you have ignored my example, the verses from the Quran and my challenge. Accept/answer my challenge. You can find it in my previous post.

                              The following is from http//www.submission.org/quran/app16.html
                              READ IT

                              The Quran teaches that God is extremely displeased with those who prohibit anything that was not specifically prohibited in the Quran (16112-116). The upholding of any prohibitions not specifically mentioned in the Quran is tantamount to idolatry (6142-152). Such prohibitions represent some other god(s) besides God. If you worship God ALONE, you will uphold His teachings ALONE and honor the commandments and prohibitions instituted only by Him.

                              The absolute specificity of dietary prohibitions in the Quran is best illustrated in 6145-146.We learn from these two verses that when God prohibits "meat," He prohibits "meat" and nothing else, and when He prohibits "fat," that is what He specifically prohibits. These two verses inform us that "the meat" of pigs is prohibited, not "the fat." Obviously, God knew that in many countries, lard would be used in baked goods and other food products, and that such usage does not render the foods Haraam (prohibited). The Quran specifically prohibits four meats (2173, 53, 6142-145, and 16112)

                              "Say, "I do not find in what was revealed to me anything prohibited for
                              any eater unless it is (1) carrion, (2) running blood, (3) the meat of pigs, for it is unclean, and (4) meat blasphemously dedicated to other than God." If one is forced to eat these without being malicious or deliberte, then your Lord is Forgiver, Most Merciful."

                              (End of article, now back to my post...)

                              BESIDES, (16112) shows us that the Jews prohibited things that were not prohibited them by God, and so God gave them more prohibitions.

                              Also, do you think that it is a coincidence that the following verses (2170-174) are mentioned in that specific order

                              When they are told, "Follow what GOD has revealed herein," they say, "We follow only what we found our parents doing." What if their parents did not understand, and were not guided?

                              The example of such disbelievers is that of parrots who repeat what they hear of sounds and calls, without understanding. Deaf, dumb, and blind; they cannot understand.

                              O you who believe, eat from the good things we provided for you, and be thankful to GOD, if you do worship Him ALONE.

                              He only prohibits for you the eating of animals that die of themselves (without human interference), blood, the meat of pigs, and animals dedicated to other than GOD. If one is forced (to eat these), without being malicious or deliberate, he incurs no sin. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

                              Those who conceal GOD's revelations in the scripture, in exchange for a cheap material gain, eat but fire into their bellies. GOD will not speak to them on the Day of Resurrection, nor will He purify them. They have incurred a painful retribution.

                              I am no longer a Sunna-rejecter. See 4:59-65, 62:2-4, 3:31, 4:156, 7:157 Messenger teaches and is to be followed and obeyed. Examples of revelation received which is not in the Qur'an: 3:123-126, 33:37, 2:187, 66:3, 62:9.

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                                Rami
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #153

                                Peace nsws1988,

                                We're not Jews so why are we being punished?

                                You are not being punished, you can eat any of the livestock. The pagans are the ones who made up prohibitions regarding these 4 kinds of animals.

                                So we can't eat chicken? Fish?

                                I don't know about birds yet. But all seafood are allowed.

                                How about people who don't have these named livestock, like people in the amazon and the arctic?

                                Seafood.

                                What can the people eat in the arctic anyway? just seaweed?

                                They shouldn't live in the arctic in the first place. If they insist, seafood is always available.

                                Peace,

                                Rami

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                                • E Offline
                                  E Offline
                                  No longer a Sunna-rejecter
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #154

                                  Peace nsws1988,

                                  We're not Jews so why are we being punished?

                                  You ar enot being punished, you can eat any of the livestock. The pagans who made up prohibitions regarding these 4 kinds of animals.

                                  So we can't eat chicken? Fish?

                                  I don't know about birds yet. But all seafood are allowed.

                                  How about people who don't have these named livestock, like people in the amazon and the arctic?

                                  Seafood.

                                  What can the people eat in the arctic anyway? just seaweed?

                                  They shouldn't live in the arctic in the first place. If they insist, seafood is always available.

                                  Peace,

                                  Rami

                                  You may eat all birds in the sky if you wish. They are halal. And why do you say "They shouldn't live in the arctic in the first place." Isnt that a bit ignorant?

                                  "Among His proofs are the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the variations in your languages and your colors. In these, there are signs for the knowledgeable." (3022)

                                  "O people, we created you from the same male and female, and rendered you distinct peoples and tribes, that you may recognize one another. The best among you in the sight of GOD is the most righteous. GOD is Omniscient, Cognizant."
                                  (4913)

                                  Besides, answer my challenge.

                                  I am no longer a Sunna-rejecter. See 4:59-65, 62:2-4, 3:31, 4:156, 7:157 Messenger teaches and is to be followed and obeyed. Examples of revelation received which is not in the Qur'an: 3:123-126, 33:37, 2:187, 66:3, 62:9.

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                                    Rami
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #155

                                    Peace,

                                    My challenge Quote just one verse for me from the Quran that says that horses, deers, camels, etc. are prohibited.

                                    Your challenge is going against the system of the Quran. The Quran is prohibiting regarding the 4 allowed kinds of animals. So God allowed these 4 animals and placed some exceptions. The rest is not allowed in the first place.

                                    The point is what is 'Al-Kanzeer' which is always translated as pig. It is either a diseased animal or a certain part of the animal or could be a live animal.

                                    Peace,

                                    Rami

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                                      No longer a Sunna-rejecter
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #156

                                      Peace,

                                      My challenge Quote just one verse for me from the Quran that says that horses, deers, camels, etc. are prohibited.

                                      Your challenge is going against the system of the Quran. The Quran is prohibiting regarding the 4 allowed kinds of animals. So God allowed these 4 animals and placed some exceptions. The rest is not allowed in the first place.

                                      Peace,

                                      Rami

                                      If you are truthful, then I think that you should not have anything against answering my challenge.

                                      Besides, what was the "They shouldn't live in the arctic in the first place" when you were referring to people who live in the Arctic all about?

                                      "Among His proofs are the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the variations in your languages and your colors. In these, there are signs for the knowledgeable." (3022)

                                      "O people, we created you from the same male and female, and rendered you distinct peoples and tribes, that you may recognize one another. The best among you in the sight of GOD is the most righteous. GOD is Omniscient, Cognizant."
                                      (4913)

                                      I am no longer a Sunna-rejecter. See 4:59-65, 62:2-4, 3:31, 4:156, 7:157 Messenger teaches and is to be followed and obeyed. Examples of revelation received which is not in the Qur'an: 3:123-126, 33:37, 2:187, 66:3, 62:9.

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                                        No longer a Sunna-rejecter
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #157

                                        I will post the folliwing verses again

                                        When they are told, "Follow what GOD has revealed herein," they say, "We follow only what we found our parents doing." What if their parents did not understand, and were not guided?

                                        The example of such disbelievers is that of parrots who repeat what they hear of sounds and calls, without understanding. Deaf, dumb, and blind; they cannot understand.

                                        O you who believe, eat from the good things we provided for you, and be thankful to GOD, if you do worship Him ALONE.

                                        He ONLY prohibits for you the eating of animals that die of themselves (without human interference), blood, the meat of pigs, and animals dedicated to other than GOD. If one is forced (to eat these), without being malicious or deliberate, he incurs no sin. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

                                        Those who conceal GOD's revelations in the scripture, in exchange for a cheap material gain, eat but fire into their bellies. GOD will not speak to them on the Day of Resurrection, nor will He purify them. They have incurred a painful retribution.

                                        Do you think that there it is a coincidcence that these verses are in this specific order? First God say that people shoould follow the Quran, but the rejectors follow what their parents were doing. Second People who follow what they hear without knowledge, or how God puts it "like parrots". Third God gives us the ONLY dietary prohibitions. Fourth God goes back to speak about the people who reject the Quran (and ultimately its only dietary prohibitions).

                                        NOTE Genuine believers will uphold the dietary prohibitions of God ALONE, and will not seek ANY other source besides the Quran. It counts as IDOLATRY to do so.

                                        I am no longer a Sunna-rejecter. See 4:59-65, 62:2-4, 3:31, 4:156, 7:157 Messenger teaches and is to be followed and obeyed. Examples of revelation received which is not in the Qur'an: 3:123-126, 33:37, 2:187, 66:3, 62:9.

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                                          Rami
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #158

                                          Peace,

                                          If you are truthful, then I think that you should not have anything against answering my challenge.

                                          I answered your challenge.

                                          Besides, what was the "They shouldn't live in the arctic in the first place" when you were referring to people who live in the Arctic all about?

                                          The Arctic is not a normal human habitat.

                                          "Among His proofs are the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the variations in your languages and your colors. In these, there are signs for the knowledgeable." (3022)

                                          "O people, we created you from the same male and female, and rendered you distinct peoples and tribes, that you may recognize one another. The best among you in the sight of GOD is the most righteous. GOD is Omniscient, Cognizant."
                                          (4913)

                                          It doesn't talk about geographical locations.

                                          When they are told, "Follow what GOD has revealed herein," they say, "We follow only what we found our parents doing." What if their parents did not understand, and were not guided?

                                          What parents? D My parents are totally oblivious to this. That is the new age buddy.

                                          The example of such disbelievers is that of parrots who repeat what they hear of sounds and calls, without understanding. Deaf, dumb, and blind; they cannot understand.

                                          Talking about the pagans who are prohibiting what they want regarding the 4 kinds of livestock.

                                          He ONLY prohibits for you the eating of animals that die of themselves (without human interference), blood, the meat of pigs, and animals dedicated to other than GOD. If one is forced (to eat these), without being malicious or deliberate, he incurs no sin. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

                                          No dead cow, sheep, goat or camel nor their blood.

                                          Those who conceal GOD's revelations in the scripture, in exchange for a cheap material gain, eat but fire into their bellies. GOD will not speak to them on the Day of Resurrection, nor will He purify them. They have incurred a painful retribution.

                                          Not talking about us unless I work in the Cattle Industry. ;D

                                          NOTE Genuine believers will uphold the dietary prohibitions of God ALONE, and will not seek ANY other source besides the Quran. It counts as IDOLATRY to do so.

                                          It is also idolatry to eat what is forbidden. The system outlined is based on the Quran ALONE.

                                          But seriously, if you want high quality livestock just visit our website at www.RamiPaganFarms.com ;D

                                          Chicken gives you diarrhoea and herpes.

                                          Peace,

                                          Rami

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