DO AYATS 5:5 AND 6:146, PRECLUDE THE PIG AS BEING HARAM...?
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Start with this and then read the rest
If things which you consider haram only when specifically mentioned by name then what was the need of saying "for you is made permissible ." And do not include cats and dogs or any other animal that one may like to eat. For a believer is permissible subject to conditionalities, for non believers, choice is wide open.
Do you expect God to tell you that vitamin C tablets are halal?! Based on your logic, vitamin C tablets, skateboards, loud speakers, printers, DVDs, etc. would be haram because they are not mentioned as halal in the quran!!
Please reflect back on my verses and visit the following http//www.quran-islam.org/255.html,
http//www.quran-islam.org/118.html and http//www.submission.org/halal-meat.htmlIf you still want to object, then idk what to do, since I thoroughly presented the haram food based on the Quran.
AND BTW, this is to counter your claim about only things specifically mentioned as halal in the quran being halal and the rest being haram
"Those who reverence the rites decreed by GOD have deserved a good reward at their Lord. All livestock is made lawful for your food, except for those SPECIFICALLY PROHIBITED for you. You shall avoid the abomination of idol worship, and avoid bearing false witness." (2230)
"O you who believe, do not prohibit good things that are made lawful by GOD, and do not aggress; GOD dislikes the aggressors." (587)
Just a side note you should mention the name of God before you eat food, not just meat. It is not the duty of the one who is slaughtering the animal to do so. It is your responsibility
"You shall eat from that upon which God's name has been pronounced, if you truly believe in His revelation." (611
"Why should you NOT eat from that upon which God's name has been mentioned ? He has DETAILED for you what is prohibited for you, unless you are forced. Indeed, many people mislead others with their personal opinions, without knowledge. Your Lord is fully aware of the transgressors." (6119)
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Do you expect God to tell you that vitamin C tablets are halal?! Based on your logic, vitamin C tablets, skateboards, loud speakers, printers, DVDs, etc. would be haram because they are not mentioned as halal in the quran!!
Please reflect back on my verses and visit the following http//www.quran-islam.org/255.html,
http//www.quran-islam.org/118.html and http//www.submission.org/halal-meat.htmlIf you still want to object, then idk what to do, since I thoroughly presented the haram food based on the Quran.
AND BTW, this is to counter your claim about only things specifically mentioned as halal in the quran being halal and the rest being haram
"Those who reverence the rites decreed by GOD have deserved a good reward at their Lord. All livestock is made lawful for your food, except for those SPECIFICALLY PROHIBITED for you. You shall avoid the abomination of idol worship, and avoid bearing false witness." (2230)
"O you who believe, do not prohibit good things that are made lawful by GOD, and do not aggress; GOD dislikes the aggressors." (587)
Just a side note you should mention the name of God before you eat food, not just meat. It is not the duty of the one who is slaughtering the animal to do so. It is your responsibility
"You shall eat from that upon which God's name has been pronounced, if you truly believe in His revelation." (611
"Why should you NOT eat from that upon which God's name has been mentioned ? He has DETAILED for you what is prohibited for you, unless you are forced. Indeed, many people mislead others with their personal opinions, without knowledge. Your Lord is fully aware of the transgressors." (6119)
Good. Now please ask someone, if you do not accept the definition given by Quran, what is meant by "livestock", this does not include dogs and rats and cats. This refers only to Herbivore mammals. Everything growing from earth which is within the meaning of Tayyebaat is declared hilal, in animals herbivore mammals. Vitamin c is the produce of land and tayyub. Do not juxtapose one thing over the other.
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Good. Now please ask someone, if you do not accept the definition given by Quran, what is meant by "livestock", this does not include dogs and rats and cats. This refers only to Herbivore mammals. Everything growing from earth which is within the meaning of Tayyebaat is declared hilal, in animals herbivore mammals. Vitamin c is the produce of land and tayyub. Do not juxtapose one thing over the other.
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I did not only say vitamin C. I also said DVDs. Are DVDs mentioned as halal in the Quran? Based on your logic, DVDs would not be halal, since they are not mentioned as halal inm the Quran.
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The definition of livestock Livestock is the term used to refer (singularly or plurally) to a domesticated animal intentionally reared in an agricultural setting to produce things such as food or fiber, or for its labor. The term as used in this article does not include poultry or farmed fish; however the inclusion of these, especially poultry, within the meaning of 'livestock' is common.
(from Wikipedia) -
You have totally IGNORED the part that says "except that which is SPECIFICALLY PROHIBITED for you.
Where does is say that horses, deers, camels, etc. are specifically prohibited.
My challenge Quote just one verse for me from the Quran that says that horses, deers, camels, etc. are prohibited.
Now I will give you an example Lets say that you live during the time of Prophet Muhammad. You have a farm with horses, cows and pigs. You ask him which of these livestocks are prohibited for you. He will answer with 2230..
"Those who reverence the rites decreed by GOD have deserved a good reward at their Lord. All livestock is made lawful for your food, except for those SPECIFICALLY PROHIBITED for you. You shall avoid the abomination of idol worship, and avoid bearing false witness."
So now you ask him "OK..what is specifically prohibited for me?"
He answers "Prohibited for you are animals that die of themselves, blood, the meat of
pigs, and animals dedicated to other than GOD. (Animals that die of them-
selves include those ) strangled, struck with an object, fallen from a height,
gored, attacked by a wild animal--unless you save your animal before it
dies--and animals sacrificed on altars. Also prohibited is dividing the meat
through a game of chance; this is an abomination... (53)Furthermore he reminds you "You shall eat from that upon which GOD's name has been pronounced, if you truly believe in His revelations." (611
and...
"Why should you not eat from that upon which GOD's name has been mentioned? He has detailed for you what is prohibited for you, unless you are forced. Indeed, many people mislead others with their personal opinions, without knowledge. Your Lord is fully aware of the transgressors." (6119)
NOTE YOU SHOULD MENTION GOD's NAME BEFORE YOU EAT FOOD, NOT JUST MEAT. IT'S NOT THE JOB OF THE PERSON THAT SLAUGHTERS THE ANIMAL TO DO SO FOR YOU. IT'S YOUR RESPONSIBILITY.
AS SIMPLE AS THAT!
and remember "You shall not utter lies with your own tongues stating "This is lawful, and this is unlawful," to fabricate lies and attribute them to GOD. Surely, those who fabricate lies and attribute them to GOD will never succeed." (16116)
and also "Who is more evil than one who is reminded of these revelations of his Lord, then insists upon disregarding them? We will certainly punish the guilty." (3222)
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Do you slaughter dog, cat, lion, bear etc in the name of Allah and then eat it?
What animals do you eat?This is totally irrelevant. Don't try to switch the topic. Do you believe GOD? Do you believe in the verses that I have quoted from the Quran?
BTW You have also IGNORED the important commandment in the Quran that we should invoke the name of God BEOFRE EATING. It is not the job of the slaughterer to do this for us.
You have also IGNORED my challenge.
Additionally, you have IGNORED my example.
"You shall not utter lies with your own tongues stating "This is lawful, and this is unlawful," to fabricate lies and attribute them to GOD. Surely, those who fabricate lies and attribute them to GOD will NEVER succeed." (16116)
"Who is more evil than one who is reminded of these revelations of his Lord, then insists upon disregarding them? We will certainly punish the guilty." (3222)
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A book is not merely for reading. A book is read for practically shaping the life. The question was the practical aspect of what you believe the book is saying. Avoiding it means in the heart of your heart you do not agree with what you are unnecessarily insisiting and keep repeating.
Eat only the permissible mammals, declared as Hilal by Allah.
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A book is not merely for reading. A book is read for practically shaping the life. The question was the practical aspect of what you believe the book is saying. Avoiding it means in the heart of your heart you do not agree with what you are unnecessarily insisiting and keep repeating.
Eat only the permissible mammals, declared as Hilal by Allah.
Again, you have disregarded the verses, my challenge and my example...
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Peace all,
396 He created you from one person, then He made from it its mate. And He sent down to you eight pairs of the livestock. He creates you in the wombs of your mothers, a creation after a creation in three darknesss. Such is God your Lord. To Him belongs the sovereignty. There is no god besides Him. How is it then you deviate?
What does it mean that God sent down(God sent down everything)? and Why didn't God include the other 'livestock' in the count. What is special about these eight pairs?
Now lets study some consecutive verses that I hope will resolve the issue
6142 And from the livestock are those for burden(Camels and/or Cows), and also for clothing(eg. sheep). Eat from what God has provided you(the ones He sent down to us) and do not follow the footsteps of the devil(by forging prohibition regarding them); he is to you a clear enemy.
6143 Eight pairs from the lambs two, and from the goats two. Say Is it the two males that He forbade or the two females, or what the womb of the two females bore? Inform me if you are truthful! ie. they are all allowed guys.
6144 And from the camels two, and from the cattle two. Say Is it the two males that He forbade or the two females, or what the womb of the two females bore? Or were you witnesses when God ordered you with this? Who is more wicked than one who invents lies about God to misguide the people without knowledge. God does not guide the wicked people. (the warning again)
6145 Say I do not find in what is inspired to me forbidden except that it be already dead, or blood, or the meat of pig(gross misunderstanding), for it is foul; or what is corruptly dedicated to other than God. Whoever is forced without seeking disobedience or transgression, then your Lord is Forgiving, Merciful.
6146 And for the Jews We have forbidden all that have claws(ie. clawed animals from the eight pairs?); and from the cattle and the sheep We forbade their fat except what is attached to the back, or entrails, or mixed with bone. That is a punishment for their rebellion, and We are truthful.
You will find that there is something wrong here. God sent down eight pairs of livestock. They are allowed except the dead, blood and pig? How is that even possible if pig is not included in the eight pairs in the first place.
In my opinion, the word 'khanzeer' which is mistranslated as pig is not a certain animal but the description of a diseased animal. So a diseased cow, goat, camel or sheep are called a 'pig'.
So we have a problem here. If you say that pig is the only forbidden animal, why are the livestock only eight pairs?
If you say that pig is an animal, why is it forbidden if it is not included in the eight pairs in the first place?Peace,
Rami
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Peace all,
6146 And for the Jews We have forbidden all that have claws(ie. clawed animals from the eight pairs?); and from the cattle and the sheep We forbade their fat except what is attached to the back, or entrails, or mixed with bone. That is a punishment for their rebellion, and We are truthful.
We're not Jews so why are we being punished?
So we can't eat chicken? Fish?
How about people who don't have these named livestock, like people in the amazon and the arctic?
What can the people eat in the arctic anyway? just seaweed? -
It does not matter if there are 500 pairs or 8 pairs. If something is halal, then it does not mean that other things are haram. Check one of my previous posts for the evidence from the Quran. Besides, BOTH of you have ignored my example, the verses from the Quran and my challenge. Accept/answer my challenge. You can find it in my previous post.
The following is from http//www.submission.org/quran/app16.html
READ ITThe Quran teaches that God is extremely displeased with those who prohibit anything that was not specifically prohibited in the Quran (16112-116). The upholding of any prohibitions not specifically mentioned in the Quran is tantamount to idolatry (6142-152). Such prohibitions represent some other god(s) besides God. If you worship God ALONE, you will uphold His teachings ALONE and honor the commandments and prohibitions instituted only by Him.
The absolute specificity of dietary prohibitions in the Quran is best illustrated in 6145-146.We learn from these two verses that when God prohibits "meat," He prohibits "meat" and nothing else, and when He prohibits "fat," that is what He specifically prohibits. These two verses inform us that "the meat" of pigs is prohibited, not "the fat." Obviously, God knew that in many countries, lard would be used in baked goods and other food products, and that such usage does not render the foods Haraam (prohibited). The Quran specifically prohibits four meats (2173, 53, 6142-145, and 16112)
"Say, "I do not find in what was revealed to me anything prohibited for
any eater unless it is (1) carrion, (2) running blood, (3) the meat of pigs, for it is unclean, and (4) meat blasphemously dedicated to other than God." If one is forced to eat these without being malicious or deliberte, then your Lord is Forgiver, Most Merciful."(End of article, now back to my post...)
BESIDES, (16112) shows us that the Jews prohibited things that were not prohibited them by God, and so God gave them more prohibitions.
Also, do you think that it is a coincidence that the following verses (2170-174) are mentioned in that specific order
When they are told, "Follow what GOD has revealed herein," they say, "We follow only what we found our parents doing." What if their parents did not understand, and were not guided?
The example of such disbelievers is that of parrots who repeat what they hear of sounds and calls, without understanding. Deaf, dumb, and blind; they cannot understand.
O you who believe, eat from the good things we provided for you, and be thankful to GOD, if you do worship Him ALONE.
He only prohibits for you the eating of animals that die of themselves (without human interference), blood, the meat of pigs, and animals dedicated to other than GOD. If one is forced (to eat these), without being malicious or deliberate, he incurs no sin. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
Those who conceal GOD's revelations in the scripture, in exchange for a cheap material gain, eat but fire into their bellies. GOD will not speak to them on the Day of Resurrection, nor will He purify them. They have incurred a painful retribution.
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Peace nsws1988,
We're not Jews so why are we being punished?
You are not being punished, you can eat any of the livestock. The pagans are the ones who made up prohibitions regarding these 4 kinds of animals.
So we can't eat chicken? Fish?
I don't know about birds yet. But all seafood are allowed.
How about people who don't have these named livestock, like people in the amazon and the arctic?
Seafood.
What can the people eat in the arctic anyway? just seaweed?
They shouldn't live in the arctic in the first place. If they insist, seafood is always available.
Peace,
Rami
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Peace nsws1988,
We're not Jews so why are we being punished?
You ar enot being punished, you can eat any of the livestock. The pagans who made up prohibitions regarding these 4 kinds of animals.
So we can't eat chicken? Fish?
I don't know about birds yet. But all seafood are allowed.
How about people who don't have these named livestock, like people in the amazon and the arctic?
Seafood.
What can the people eat in the arctic anyway? just seaweed?
They shouldn't live in the arctic in the first place. If they insist, seafood is always available.
Peace,
Rami
You may eat all birds in the sky if you wish. They are halal. And why do you say "They shouldn't live in the arctic in the first place." Isnt that a bit ignorant?
"Among His proofs are the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the variations in your languages and your colors. In these, there are signs for the knowledgeable." (3022)
"O people, we created you from the same male and female, and rendered you distinct peoples and tribes, that you may recognize one another. The best among you in the sight of GOD is the most righteous. GOD is Omniscient, Cognizant."
(4913)Besides, answer my challenge.
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Peace,
My challenge Quote just one verse for me from the Quran that says that horses, deers, camels, etc. are prohibited.
Your challenge is going against the system of the Quran. The Quran is prohibiting regarding the 4 allowed kinds of animals. So God allowed these 4 animals and placed some exceptions. The rest is not allowed in the first place.
The point is what is 'Al-Kanzeer' which is always translated as pig. It is either a diseased animal or a certain part of the animal or could be a live animal.
Peace,
Rami
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Peace,
My challenge Quote just one verse for me from the Quran that says that horses, deers, camels, etc. are prohibited.
Your challenge is going against the system of the Quran. The Quran is prohibiting regarding the 4 allowed kinds of animals. So God allowed these 4 animals and placed some exceptions. The rest is not allowed in the first place.
Peace,
Rami
If you are truthful, then I think that you should not have anything against answering my challenge.
Besides, what was the "They shouldn't live in the arctic in the first place" when you were referring to people who live in the Arctic all about?
"Among His proofs are the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the variations in your languages and your colors. In these, there are signs for the knowledgeable." (3022)
"O people, we created you from the same male and female, and rendered you distinct peoples and tribes, that you may recognize one another. The best among you in the sight of GOD is the most righteous. GOD is Omniscient, Cognizant."
(4913) -
I will post the folliwing verses again
When they are told, "Follow what GOD has revealed herein," they say, "We follow only what we found our parents doing." What if their parents did not understand, and were not guided?
The example of such disbelievers is that of parrots who repeat what they hear of sounds and calls, without understanding. Deaf, dumb, and blind; they cannot understand.
O you who believe, eat from the good things we provided for you, and be thankful to GOD, if you do worship Him ALONE.
He ONLY prohibits for you the eating of animals that die of themselves (without human interference), blood, the meat of pigs, and animals dedicated to other than GOD. If one is forced (to eat these), without being malicious or deliberate, he incurs no sin. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
Those who conceal GOD's revelations in the scripture, in exchange for a cheap material gain, eat but fire into their bellies. GOD will not speak to them on the Day of Resurrection, nor will He purify them. They have incurred a painful retribution.
Do you think that there it is a coincidcence that these verses are in this specific order? First God say that people shoould follow the Quran, but the rejectors follow what their parents were doing. Second People who follow what they hear without knowledge, or how God puts it "like parrots". Third God gives us the ONLY dietary prohibitions. Fourth God goes back to speak about the people who reject the Quran (and ultimately its only dietary prohibitions).
NOTE Genuine believers will uphold the dietary prohibitions of God ALONE, and will not seek ANY other source besides the Quran. It counts as IDOLATRY to do so.
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Peace,
If you are truthful, then I think that you should not have anything against answering my challenge.
I answered your challenge.
Besides, what was the "They shouldn't live in the arctic in the first place" when you were referring to people who live in the Arctic all about?
The Arctic is not a normal human habitat.
"Among His proofs are the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the variations in your languages and your colors. In these, there are signs for the knowledgeable." (3022)
"O people, we created you from the same male and female, and rendered you distinct peoples and tribes, that you may recognize one another. The best among you in the sight of GOD is the most righteous. GOD is Omniscient, Cognizant."
(4913)It doesn't talk about geographical locations.
When they are told, "Follow what GOD has revealed herein," they say, "We follow only what we found our parents doing." What if their parents did not understand, and were not guided?
What parents? D My parents are totally oblivious to this. That is the new age buddy.
The example of such disbelievers is that of parrots who repeat what they hear of sounds and calls, without understanding. Deaf, dumb, and blind; they cannot understand.
Talking about the pagans who are prohibiting what they want regarding the 4 kinds of livestock.
He ONLY prohibits for you the eating of animals that die of themselves (without human interference), blood, the meat of pigs, and animals dedicated to other than GOD. If one is forced (to eat these), without being malicious or deliberate, he incurs no sin. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
No dead cow, sheep, goat or camel nor their blood.
Those who conceal GOD's revelations in the scripture, in exchange for a cheap material gain, eat but fire into their bellies. GOD will not speak to them on the Day of Resurrection, nor will He purify them. They have incurred a painful retribution.
Not talking about us unless I work in the Cattle Industry. ;D
NOTE Genuine believers will uphold the dietary prohibitions of God ALONE, and will not seek ANY other source besides the Quran. It counts as IDOLATRY to do so.
It is also idolatry to eat what is forbidden. The system outlined is based on the Quran ALONE.
But seriously, if you want high quality livestock just visit our website at www.RamiPaganFarms.com ;D
Chicken gives you diarrhoea and herpes.
Peace,
Rami
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@ Rami
If you want to tell me this nonsense, then fine.
FYI YOU HAVE NOT ANSWERED MY CHALLENGE.. My challenge Quote just one verse for me from the Quran that says that horses, deers, camels, etc. are prohibited.Your claim that He ONLY prohibits for you the eating of animals that die of themselves (without human interference), blood, the meat of pigs, and animals dedicated to other than GOD. If one is forced (to eat these), without being malicious or deliberate, he incurs no sin. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful. tells us that chicken is haram (which btw is idolatry and not even the sunnis and shias say that it is haram) is complete NONSENSE because chicken is not even mentioned as haram in the quran.
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salamun alaykum,
there is no compulsion to believe, adopt or follow any understanding/comprehension. different person are attained different levels of understanding/comprehension, therefore there shouldn't be a fight on whether one has gotten the correct/perfect understanding/comprehension or otherwise. 'lakum deenukum waliyyadeen' indeed. yes, believers or otherwise, since it is common to discover that some believers in God and the last day do not believe in many things even though they are the basic/fundamental responsibility/accountability of being a muslim as contained in the qur'an.
so, don't argue or fight please. God doesn't like it. when you have earned His wrath, He might appoint a 'shaitan' (as 'qarin' to mislead you, or punish you accordingly and lead you towards the fire - that angst/anxiousness/disquietude/distress/nervousness/unease/uneasiness/worry in you will be compounded over time.
please go easy, and lets look at the following verse
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Hurrimat AAalaykumu almaytatu waalddamu walahmu alkhinzeeri wama ohilla lighayri Allahi bihi waalmunkhaniqatu waalmawqoothatu waalmutaraddiyatu waalnnateehatu wama akala alssabuAAu illa ma thakkaytum wama thubiha AAala alnnusubi waan tastaqsimoo bial-azlami thalikum fisqun alyawma ya-isa allatheena kafaroo min deenikum fala takhshawhum waikhshawni alyawma akmaltu lakum deenakum waatmamtu AAalaykum niAAmatee waradeetu lakumu al-islama deenan famani idturra fee makhmasatin ghayra mutajanifin li-ithmin fa-inna Allaha ghafoorun raheemun
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Forbidden for you are the dead, blood, the flesh of pig, and what was intended for other than God, and the fatally choked, fatally ill, those that suffer fatal falls, those hurt in fatal fights, and what predatory animals have devoured, unless it is not distasteful to you, while whatever was slaughtered for idols, and whatever you (pl.) distribute by lottery is immoral for you (pl.). Today/now He renounced those who have disbelieved in your (pl.) responsibility/accountability. So, don?t you (pl.) fear them when you fear Me today/now that I have perfected/completed your responsibility/accountability. And I have perfected/completed My comfort/ease/favor for you, as I am satisfied/pleased that as far as you are concerned Islam/self-surrender/self-submission is the responsibility/accountability. But, whoever is forced by hunger, without an inclination to sin/offend/go over the limit, then God is compassionately forgiving.
notes;
- 'almaytatu'/'the dead' refers to animals that nobody knew the reasons for their death. (e.g. even fishermen do not eat fish that they find already dead in the water (or floating). but they eat those that they found already dead in their nets since they know the reason for their death.)
- 'illa ma thakkaytum'/'unless it is not distasteful to you' are only regarding animals that we know are suffering from fatal choking (suffocating due to smoke, water, rope, etc.), illness, falls, fights or devoured by predatory animals. when it is distasteful to you, then it is forbidden for you. otherwise, it is allowed to be consumed.
so the forbidden are
• the dead of unknown cause of death;
• the blood;
• the flesh of pigs or whatever you take 'lahmu alkhinzeeri' to be;
• those slaughtered for other than God, e.g. for other deities, for a specific purpose. in other words, this refers to the killing of animals for other reason than the idea or awareness that it is good food provided or allowed by God;
• those animals you know the causes of their death (as mentioned in the above verse) but you find them distasteful or repulsive to eat.
• those distributed/earned by lottery/chance/game of chance/lucky draw/raffle/sweepstake;
but of course there is the s.o.p. - an 'exit clause' i.e. when 'forced by hunger, without an inclination to sin/offend/go over the limit'.
no one should agree or disagree in my personal comprehension. please get your answers from God. never ever contemplate to leave God out of your search for the truth. have your full respect for Him as the teacher. we know nothing without His leave. thus take Him as your confidant and reference.
may God guide us on the straight/correct/honorable path. insha-Allah.
peace
mohammed noh -
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Peace Joe,
I found the key to resolve the issue.
We are allowed to eat
-Domesticated animals except blood, dead, and swine.
-All seafood.
-All game(hunted animals). - not defined in the Quran.The rest is forbidden. eg. dogs, donkeys, horses etc.
Peace,
Rami
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Peace Joe,
I found the key to resolve the issue.
We are allowed to eat
-Domesticated animals except blood, dead, and swine.
-All seafood.
-All game(hunted animals). - not defined in the Quran.The rest is forbidden. eg. dogs, donkeys, horses etc.
Peace,
Rami
You are making a double standard. On one hand you are saying "horses are forbidden" (which is of course not true), but then on the other hand, you are saying that everything that is hunted is allowed??
If you want to abide by those rules, OK. I am not. Besides, are you still saying that chicken is forbidden???
@ Joe/mohammed (which ever is your name),
thanks for providing additional evidence from the Quran.
I think this issue needs no more discussion from Rami and myself. I am surprised that it got a quick revival just now.
Peace